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Microsoft flashing green in bid to poach Apple Retail experts - Page 2

post #41 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

Anyone who changed jobs just on an offer IMHO is a total idiot. Now a promise in writing that is a different matter.

I am sure big corporations are required to have everything in writing. I don't think we were talking about a hotdog stand here.
post #42 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

If I am not mistaken Apple started with two trial stores as well and now they have more than 270.

Yes, and? Because one company has had success doing something, every company that does that is bound to succeed?

Quote:
Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success. Maybe MS will not be making millions from their retail stores but I don't think that's the point. I wouldn't be surprised if Dell, HP, and other PC manufacturers are aiding MS with their retail plans.
However you look at it, it will be a win for those who leave from Apple to the largest software developer in history, which is a fact whether we like MS or not.

I don't think anyone is claiming that MS is going under.

On the other hand, if these first two stores don't do very well, it's a little hard to imagine MS "pumping money" into an undertaking as vast as a network of retail stores. It's one thing to sell the Xbox at a loss to drive adoption-- MS sees it as critical to their strategy for getting into the living room.

But what, exactly, do stores do for Microsoft? Apple decided to seize control of their retail message because they were being so poorly served by big box retailers. Does Microsoft has this problem? Are people having a hard time figuring out where to get the MS gear they crave?

Running their own stores were a vital part of Apple's plan to rebuild the brand, and they've been a huge success in that regard. For many people, the Apple store is now synonymous with the whole Apple vibe.

MS, on the other hand, is simply trying to sprinkle a little "cool" dust on their brand. That's a much vaguer motivation for spending a great deal of money, and the payoffs are likely to be vague, as well.

Add to that the already mentioned problem that MS simply doesn't have the kind of product lineup that lends itself to making a store a center of enthusiasm, and I think the jury is still very much out as to whether MS ever expands this idea much past the first few stores.
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post #43 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yes, and? Because one company has had success doing something, every company that does that is bound to succeed?

I don't think anyone is claiming that MS is going under.

On the other hand, if these first two stores don't do very well, it's a little hard to imagine MS "pumping money" into an undertaking as vast as a network of retail stores. It's one thing to sell the Xbox at a loss to drive adoption-- MS sees it as critical to their strategy for getting into the living room.

But what, exactly, do stores do for Microsoft? Apple decided to seize control of their retail message because they were being so poorly served by big box retailers. Does Microsoft has this problem? Are people having a hard time figuring out where to get the MS gear they crave?

Running their own stores were a vital part of Apple's plan to rebuild the brand, and they've been a huge success in that regard. For many people, the Apple store is now synonymous with the whole Apple vibe.

MS, on the other hand, is simply trying to sprinkle a little "cool" dust on their brand. That's a much vaguer motivation for spending a great deal of money, and the payoffs are likely to be vague, as well.

Add to that the already mentioned problem that MS simply doesn't have the kind of product lineup that lends itself to making a store a center of enthusiasm, and I think the jury is still very much out as to whether MS ever expands this idea much past the first few stores.

Regardless of whether the retail store idea will add to MS revenues or not, which I am sure is not the goal of the whole thing, you can't blame those who left Apple for a better paycheck and benefits. If history did teach us anything it would be to never underestimate MS. It's business not personal.
post #44 of 85
That's the way capitalism works- more power to them. If Apple wants them to stay then counteroffer them- end of story.
post #45 of 85
Like it or not, the Apple stores are not necessarily the best places to work. They don't pay well because they get so many applicants that want to work there. An article (I think in the NY Times) I read earlier this year indicated that an applicant faces better odds trying to get into Harvard than getting a job at an Apple store.

On the flip side, Apple can pick and choose from the best of the bunch, and that has helped them establish the Apple stores' reputation for customer service. Even if Microsoft poaches these Apple store employees, Apple still has a large pool of eager applicants that want to work there. Apple store employees have the added advantage of selling high demand products.

Right now, Apple's stores generate the highest sales per square foot in the retail business, and the employees do not work on commission. The Apple stores are consequential to Apple's bottomline because so much of the company's revenue is generated by their retail operations, and they help pad the profit margins because they represent direct sales with no middleman.

Despite MS' "me too" entry into the retail trade, I don't see how they can generate the same kind of sales volume that Apple does. Unlike Macs, Windows PCs are available everywhere and they are low margin products. MS does not have a weak link with their distribution channels.

Apple got into the retail business because they had a weak retail presence, and most of those retailers that carried Macs also carried PCs and did not actively promote Macs. Because Apple is a hardware manufacturer, the retail presence works to their benefit by serving as a point of sale and physical site where customers could find answers and get tech support.

MS does not have this same need, so I don't see what they hope to accomplish with their retail stores, other than try to steal some sales from Apple and serve as a showcase for MS' products. It just seems more like a vanity project and marketing-driven play than something that will actually generate a lot of profits for MS.
post #46 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Regardless of whether the retail store idea will add to MS revenues or not, which I am sure is not the goal of the whole thing, you can't blame those who left Apple for a better paycheck and benefits. If history did teach us anything it would be to never underestimate MS. It's business not personal.

OK. I don't think I ever suggested we blame people who followed the money.

I did suggest that were one considering such an offer, one might take a moment to consider the viability of the operation that was offering. In case that isn't clear, I mean MS's retail venture, not MS as a whole.

Double wages is not a good deal if you leave a steady job with advancement potential in favor of a kind of speculative venture that might or might not go anywhere. Of course, we can disagree on whether or not MS's stores are likely to succeed or not, or if MS will stay the course even if they don't.
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post #47 of 85
Another thought-- while I can see MS trying to poach Apple Store managers, who have platform agnostic skills, what's the point of going after sales people? As far as I know, most of the people who work at Apple stores are stone Apple-heads. Certainly the "Geniuses" are hired because they are knowledgeable Mac users.

Are there really a lot of non-management people working at Apple Stores that are in any way "PC enthusiasts"? Genuine enthusiasm for the platform is the engine that drives the stores. Doesn't hiring away such people just give you well paid Apple users giving PC expertise the old college try?
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post #48 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

Like it or not, the Apple stores are not necessarily the best places to work. They don't pay well because they get so many applicants that want to work there. An article (I think in the NY Times) I read earlier this year indicated that an applicant faces better odds trying to get into Harvard than getting a job at an Apple store.

On the flip side, Apple can pick and choose from the best of the bunch, and that has helped them establish the Apple stores' reputation for customer service. Even if Microsoft poaches these Apple store employees, Apple still has a large pool of eager applicants that want to work there. Apple store employees have the added advantage of selling high demand products.

Right now, Apple's stores generate the highest sales per square foot in the retail business, and the employees do not work on commission. The Apple stores are consequential to Apple's bottomline because so much of the company's revenue is generated by their retail operations, and they help pad the profit margins because they represent direct sales with no middleman.

Despite MS' "me too" entry into the retail trade, I don't see how they can generate the same kind of sales volume that Apple does. Unlike Macs, Windows PCs are available everywhere and they are low margin products. MS does not have a weak link with their distribution channels.

Apple got into the retail business because they had a weak retail presence, and most of those retailers that carried Macs also carried PCs and did not actively promote Macs. Because Apple is a hardware manufacturer, the retail presence works to their benefit by serving as a point of sale and physical site where customers could find answers and get tech support.

MS does not have this same need, so I don't see what they hope to accomplish with their retail stores, other than try to steal some sales from Apple and serve as a showcase for MS' products. It just seems more like a vanity project and marketing-driven play than something that will actually generate a lot of profits for MS.

Great post.

They're trying to buy taste in terms of outward appearances, rather allowing it to ensue as a complement to products that commnicate the same (Apple.) MS is trying desperately to shed their bargain-bin, Wal-Mart-esque image, and they believe these stores will give them that special panache, plus a "central" location for everything Microsoft. Except that MS' business model doesn't support that image of taste, nor does it call for a central hot-spot for all things MS, since every BestBuy can function as one.

This is purely window-dressing by MS to capture positive mindshare. But "hip and cool" happens when the products you sell are "hip and cool." And MS aint.
post #49 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Great post.

They're trying to buy taste in terms of outward appearances, rather allowing it to ensue as a complement to products that commnicate the same (Apple.) MS is trying desperately to shed their bargain-bin, Wal-Mart-esque image, and they believe these stores will give them that special panache, plus a "central" location for everything Microsoft. Except that MS' business model doesn't support that image of taste, nor does it call for a central hot-spot for all things MS, since every BestBuy can function as one.

This is purely window-dressing by MS to capture positive mindshare. But "hip and cool" happens when the products you sell are "hip and cool." And MS aint.

You really have issues with MSFT that you need help with. I feel sorry for you. They really annoy you , it's so sad.
post #50 of 85
It would be interesting to see Jerry Seinfeld open up one of these stores. Though no celebrity, Bill Gates or (if they would even dare) Steve Jobs himself is going to make much of a difference -- they're selling Microsoft products and when was the last time anyone has REALLY been excited about that?

I just wonder what kind of response that Best Buy and Wal-Mart will have to this? Price cuts? Well perhaps this will benefit the consumer and give more reason for the store's quick demise.

In addition to the 'Guru Bar', I imagine they'll have something similar to the 'Geek Squad' which will give more in depth help at a cost, though who knows if Best Buy will even care.
post #51 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Wow! Contacting the retail store managers? Quite an interesting tactic.
a

note that the article did say it was a manager who had recently left. so define recent and why did the person leave Apple.

also, they make it sound like dozens upon dozens of folks have jumped ship but we have only 2 confirmed stores and I can't imagine them having more than perhaps 100 employees from top to bottom.

and how many of those Apple Employees were active and how many, like the manager, recently left (which could actually mean were fired)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The typical MS solution to most problems:

Just throw more money at it. It applies to retail too, but so do its limitations.

you mean like this
post #52 of 85
Ah my apologies, I thought the manager was contacted while he was still working at the Apple store.
post #53 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success.

There was an era when General Motors wasn't going under within anyone's lifetime, and jumping ship strictly for a paycheck and pension was the thing to do. My how things can change...

I'm not accusing MS of "going under", at least not for the moment. What I am saying it's very dangerous for MS to think they can buy passion and loyalty (versus careerists out for a buck), and to keep throwing big money into also-ran ventures while their cash cows continue to stagnate (Windows 7 IS stagnation).

And someone still needs to explain how MS plans to drive sales traffic into these stores. For some reason I don't see people lining up days ahead to get the latest Office.

I wouldn't have anything to do with MS, for any amount of money. MS is going to fill itself with yes-men precisely when it needs a SWIFT KICK!
post #54 of 85
Apple's retail stores tend to be fairly stressful, boiler room types of environments. What once started as a nice, relatively calm places populated by people who actually knew something about the product are now constantly mobbed by throngs of idiot teenagers whose only relation to the Apple brand is their iPod and/or iPhone, and oh -- "hey, how convenient, that there's these computers in the store so I can shit away half my day on Facebook while waiting 3.5 hours for my name to come up at the Genius Bar to fix a stupid problem I could've figured out at homeif I knew how to use Google, and which I probably wouldn't have had if I used my iPod/iPhone with a Mac instead of my stupid Windows box!"

(Kinda like how AI forums has changed over the last couple of years, but that's a discussion for another day . . . )

My point is that the store managers probably are worn to the bone by now, and what little brand loyalty they had to begin with (and I don't think many of them do -- for most of them, it's just a job, and they don't have loyalty that goes back to Apple's "dark days" in the mid-'90s, not by a LONG shot) is GONE. Especially in this economy, "double your salary" is very compelling.

It's not just M$ that's aware of this. Trust me, certain independent Apple resellers, who run stores that are profitable (maybe not rape-the-earth profitable, like Apple Retail, but profitable nonetheless) are all too aware of this, too. This is why they're getting applications from people who used to work at Apple's own stores, even at lower rates of pay. In fact, I'd venture to guess that until Microsoft Retail came along, independent Apple resellers were poaching a few Apple Store employees, too. Only difference is that those employees came willingly, not as a result of having dollars waved in front of their faces.

Not that I know firsthand or anything.
post #55 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post




you mean like this

Hehe, I liked that one. Makes me chuckle every time.
post #56 of 85
one of the articles here on ai said there would be birthday parties at these stores, i just cannot wait to see pictures of one ...

my only interpretation of this shitty move from microsoft is that they just want to damage apple...their stores will last 6 months tops...i don't even think burglars would go into those stores...

i just wonder how much longer ballmer will be keeping the ceo position?? these antics...are just more money down the drain...
post #57 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Earlier this week, reports surfaced that Microsoft contacted Apple retail store managers in an attempt to lure them away. The employees were offered raises and compensation for moving expenses if they agreed to work for Redmond, Wash.-based heavyweight, which intends to open its first brick-and-mortar stores this fall.

People do not go to or buy from an Apple store because of the employees. They do so because of the products, experience, curiosity, and "coolness" factor. Apple could have well-trained monkeys in the stores and people would still go to and buy from if they can get the same experience and products. Okay, maybe not well trained monkeys, but they could have only well-trained 17 year olds and it wouldn't matter (but monkeys sounds funnier to me). Point is... even if MSFT hires every Apple store employee, who cares - Apple will just go out hire more people to work there. For every person you see in an Apple store there are 3-5 others at least who are equally qualified and easy to train waiting to fill their spot.

It's not like people will walk by a Windows store and think, "hey MS just hired all the Apple store employee's, forget the iPhone or MacBook Pro -- let's go buy a Zune!"

:nobody (Odysseus)
post #58 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

People do not go to or buy from an Apple store because of the employees. They do so because of the products, experience, curiosity, and "coolness" factor. Apple could have well-trained monkeys in the stores and people would still go to and buy from if they can get the same experience and products. Okay, maybe not well trained monkeys, but they could have only well-trained 17 year olds and it wouldn't matter (but monkeys sounds funnier to me). Point is... even if MSFT hires every Apple store employee, who cares - Apple will just go out hire more people to work there. For every person you see in an Apple store there are 3-5 others at least who are equally qualified and easy to train waiting to fill their spot.

It's not like people will walk by a Windows store and think, "hey MS just hired all the Apple store employee's, forget the iPhone or MacBook Pro -- let's go buy a Zune!"

:nobody (Odysseus)

you have a very good point...
it's a damaging thing msft is doing, but very superficial...

it's almost like wanting to hurt a successful rock band by stealing their instruments...for lack of a better analogy...
post #59 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

There was an era when General Motors wasn't going under within anyone's lifetime, and jumping ship strictly for a paycheck and pension was the thing to do. My how things can change...

GM is not and was never in the same position as MS. The auto market was and is very competitive (at least GM had Ford to compete with) but MS has virtually no competition in the OS market. When you want to buy a PC other that a Mac you will never be asked what OS you want installed (other than if you want Windows Home, Home Premium, ,, etc).

Quote:
I'm not accusing MS of "going under", at least not for the moment. What I am saying it's very dangerous for MS to think they can buy passion and loyalty (versus careerists out for a buck), and to keep throwing big money into also-ran ventures while their cash cows continue to stagnate (Windows 7 IS stagnation).

And someone still needs to explain how MS plans to drive sales traffic into these stores. For some reason I don't see people lining up days ahead to get the latest Office.

I wouldn't have anything to do with MS, for any amount of money. MS is going to fill itself with yes-men precisely when it needs a SWIFT KICK!

Look, I personally don't have sympathy toward MS and wish that their OS market share goes down... waaaay down. But business wise MS is doing great and everyone knows that they can take risks without any problems as long as they have monopoly in the OS market, which as I said will not go away anytime soon.
post #60 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success.

Companies that last 100 years are incredibly rare. 20 good years isn't nearly enough to predict anything about the next 50.

Betting that ANY company today will or won't be around in 50 years is about as likely to be successful as betting that the Lions will not win a super bowl in the next 50 years. Things change.
post #61 of 85
Double the salary for retail managers? Dayum.
post #62 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You really have issues with MSFT that you need help with. I feel sorry for you. They really annoy you , it's so sad.


Wow! What great insight .... thanks for that oh so valuable contribution. Not!
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #63 of 85
Throwing money at the problem isn't going to fix it. An Apple employee is promoting the best. An Apple employee as an MS Employee is fighting the best.

This isn't a new tactic. They've been doing the same thing with software companies for years now. They pay the company to NOT produce a Linux, Solaris, OS/2, and Macintosh version of the app. The software companies are persuaded that even if they did MS's kickback would offer more to the bottom line than the release would. It's mostly in Business systems that I'm aware of this but with Xbox and MS Windows as a gaming platform I wouldn't put it past them to offer a small guaranteed amount in return for a no-release on a specific platform.
post #64 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonSense View Post

Apple's retail stores tend to be fairly stressful, boiler room types of environments. What once started as a nice, relatively calm places populated by people who actually knew something about the product are now constantly mobbed by throngs of idiot teenagers whose only relation to the Apple brand is their iPod and/or iPhone, and oh -- "hey, how convenient, that there's these computers in the store so I can shit away half my day on Facebook while waiting 3.5 hours for my name to come up at the Genius Bar to fix a stupid problem I could've figured out at homeif I knew how to use Google, and which I probably wouldn't have had if I used my iPod/iPhone with a Mac instead of my stupid Windows box!"

(Kinda like how AI forums has changed over the last couple of years, but that's a discussion for another day . . . )

My point is that the store managers probably are worn to the bone by now, and what little brand loyalty they had to begin with (and I don't think many of them do -- for most of them, it's just a job, and they don't have loyalty that goes back to Apple's "dark days" in the mid-'90s, not by a LONG shot) is GONE. Especially in this economy, "double your salary" is very compelling.

It's not just M$ that's aware of this. Trust me, certain independent Apple resellers, who run stores that are profitable (maybe not rape-the-earth profitable, like Apple Retail, but profitable nonetheless) are all too aware of this, too. This is why they're getting applications from people who used to work at Apple's own stores, even at lower rates of pay. In fact, I'd venture to guess that until Microsoft Retail came along, independent Apple resellers were poaching a few Apple Store employees, too. Only difference is that those employees came willingly, not as a result of having dollars waved in front of their faces.

Not that I know firsthand or anything.

Spoken like one who has felt the fire and ran out of the kitchen! I'd do it too! But think about it, would the MS Store be any better? Instead of pierced faces in need of showers (and believe me some of you do stink-axe doesn't help the situation) ranting at you in slang your gonna have old blue hairs asking you simple things over and over again. Pissed off people with virus's and no boot situations. I think the lesser of the two is Apple again here.

I'd pay money to see the picture of "Boss" bringing in his entire network'd system one at a time for Free repair. You don't think it's gonna happen? It's amazing what the word FREE will do to some people who are desperate and out of options.
post #65 of 85
I believe that MS's approach has several benefits to MS. 2 which stand out for me are:

a) they get someone with inside knowledge of how their competition is run, etc.

b) they get to take talent away from Apple..and, like some corporate chains are known to do (whole foods, borders), they can just fire them after say..6 months once they've learned (ie: sucked the knowledge from the manager) all they need to know to get the processes in their own stores streamlined.

I think B is most likely. I don't see how anyone could believe an MS store is going to magically make enough cash to warrant doubling what is probably an industry standard salary.
post #66 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success. Maybe MS will not be making millions from their retail stores but I don't think that's the point. I wouldn't be surprised if Dell, HP, and other PC manufacturers are aiding MS with their retail plans.
However you look at it, it will be a win for those who leave from Apple to the largest software developer in history, which is a fact whether we like MS or not.

Largest DEVELOPER? No. They steal, beg, borrow and BUY most of what they have. All, ALL, of their Business apps (taling 100k+ systems) wer BOUGHT not made. They were doing well on their own. Great Plains, Solomon (who they sold BACK to the original owner for 1/3), Navision, etc... They BOUGHT them. They make more on that side of the software biz than windows... But it's Windows (who they stole going back to 1979 from Seattle Computer Company for $50k and a job) that people know and see everywhere. Office was stolen and bought. GUI Was Xerox who sold rights to Apple, WHICH was stolen by MS in 1983 while WORKING FOR APPLE. Sorry, not at you... Just erks me when people (especially tech school zombies talk about MS this way when they don't even know enough to msconfig their way out of a virus infection) talk about Microsoft in a way that makes them sound like they CONTRIBUTED ANYTHING to the computer industry or it's development. Woz started it all. And he wasn't working for Apple at the time it was HP.

Developer? Nope.

As to Too Big to Fail just throw money at it. The last year should have taught you one lesson, that if it costs more to save than to toss... Your gonna toss it anyways. Keep spending to cover up and you'll have nothing left to use.
post #67 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmiami View Post

Just imagine you were offered DOUBLE your salary to work somewhere else...wouldn't you do it?

"Somewhere else"? No, I wouldn't. You see, you and I could probably earn 4 times the salary we make now, simply by moving to Iraq and working in the field of "security." But are you going to do that? No. (If you were willing, you would be there right now.)

What you MEANT to ask was, "Wouldn't you change jobs if you could double your salary, without hazarding your health, working at similar workplace with a similar position on a similar set of products and services?" The answer to that question will be "yes" by people short-term thinkers who are willing to sell themselves to the highest bidder and "no" to those whose convictions are stronger than the almighty greenback.

Chances are MS cannot afford to pay outrageous salaries in the long term. MS is doing this now to lure people from Apple stores. But if it's stores are not successful, they of course won't cut those large salaries. Oh no. They will just close the stores and put and end to those jobs. Apple should therefore create a hiring policy that says, "if you quit Apple to work for MS, don't expect to get hired back when times get tough at Redmond."
post #68 of 85

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Edited by kellya74u - 7/24/13 at 10:53am
post #69 of 85

deleted


Edited by kellya74u - 7/24/13 at 10:51am
post #70 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post

How Innovative & creative for Microsoft to, once again, steal APPLE ideas, copy them, and are now so desperate, to steal employees away. Sure, you can buy anybody for money, but sell your soul in the process. This is further proof of how debased Microsoft is, lacking in character, & ruthless. Some would say, "business is business." I say, "bad business has to resort to bad business." If Microsoft had its act even a little bit together, they could perhaps do the opposite, absolutely not hire anyone who has worked for Apple or owns Apple products. If 'business is business' is the rule of the land, the I hope a good 1/3 of the employees that go to work for Microsoft stores are actually Apple spies who report back everything to Apple. It would be interesting to see the faces of those who take the higher money to see how convincing they are, telling young/old & vulnerable Microsoft customers that they are indeed purchasing a superior product (Windows) & 'we'll see you real soon' (when you have to bring it back with viruses).

I read all the comments and I agree with people saying that MS business plan will probably fail, since MS are doing it for all the wrong reasons and to me, it looks like an emotional decision by Ballmar because MS is not seem as cool as Apple or MS is wanting to drive Apple under.

What I can not understand is holier than thou approach to people taking double pay. Yes I agree you have to understand the environment, you are walking into, but that being said calling someone idiot for such appealing offer, is just native or your so in love with Apple, you are drinking too much of their Kool aid.
People should look after NUMBER ONE and ensure that their have a enjoyable working environment and get paid a decent wage for their efforts. You can be loyal to your company, but do not get emotional attached, since NO ONE IS INDEFENSIBLE and you can be replaced.

Addition the above comments about bad business for poaching people..LMAO..this happens EVERY DAY in cooperate world at all levels, so MS poaching Apple employees is nothing new. Everyone including are beloved Apple poach, so lets not get on crusader about MS, when we know Apple do the same business practices.

The number of comments, I have seen by people are blinded by their love for Apple and not rational in nature and more emotional, since people dare leave Apple to go to MS.

I love Apple and probably will not buy another product, unless it was far superior in nature, but I am not blinded by emotional attachment and too much drinking the HOLY Apple Kool aid.

I say good luck to employees that are going to MS retail store(s).
post #71 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

It's just a job--if you're offered a lot more money, then unless you really like your Apple job (which is separate from liking Apple products) I say take it

There's always the risk of it being a shorter-term opportunity than you hoped, of course.

short term isnt a problem for anyone with "Apple store manager" on their resume with a reason for leaving of "Microsoft offerd me a retardedly high salary for a store I knew from the outset would fail, but I jumped for the money." They will have no trouble landing other high end retail management gigs.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #72 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post

If thing don't work out as MS, "gee, um, will you take me back???"

Why would they? It wouldn't look good on you resume "oh I left for more money ............" and jumpin around never looks good. But I can't imagine the scorn from Apple fanbots once they found out. Seriously apple should counteroffer these guys if they're serious.
post #73 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW View Post

"Somewhere else"? No, I wouldn't. You see, you and I could probably earn 4 times the salary we make now, simply by moving to Iraq and working in the field of "security." But are you going to do that? No. (If you were willing, you would be there right now.)

What you MEANT to ask was, "Wouldn't you change jobs if you could double your salary, without hazarding your health, working at similar workplace with a similar position on a similar set of products and services?" The answer to that question will be "yes" by people short-term thinkers who are willing to sell themselves to the highest bidder and "no" to those whose convictions are stronger than the almighty greenback.

Chances are MS cannot afford to pay outrageous salaries in the long term. MS is doing this now to lure people from Apple stores. But if it's stores are not successful, they of course won't cut those large salaries. Oh no. They will just close the stores and put and end to those jobs. Apple should therefore create a hiring policy that says, "if you quit Apple to work for MS, don't expect to get hired back when times get tough at Redmond."

one of the funniest ive ever've read here. Great with my Sunday morning coffee.
post #74 of 85
At the end of the day MS Stores will be no better than Apple Stores, and consumers will decide which one survives.
post #75 of 85
DeaPeaJay: Ever heard of paragraphs?
Just how did your comment contribute to this discussion? Maybe he was trying to get people to read each sentence in full! You're being pompous.
post #76 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

My guess is that MS is prepared to lose money on these things (AKA seemingly everything they do outside of the Windows/Office duopoly).

They're not looking to move product, they're looking to build mindshare for whatever version of the "Windows experience" they're currently touting.

They can see that Apple is having a lot of success with "ecosystems" and "synergies" across multiple hardware platforms and al kinds of software; they figure you can more or less do the same thing with Windows but maybe people aren't quite getting that.

So I would expect to see a heavy emphasis on PC/Xbox/Media Center/Zune integration (insofar as that exists).

However, we should never forget that Microsoft is the company that produced this.

I don't care what anyone says, a company that is capable of making that, and thinking that it's a marketing tool, is in danger of trying to sell things in their stores by affixing a dead cat to each item. It really sort of deifies imagination, the terribleness.

So while they may be able to make their best effort to simply clone Apple's stores, there is something deeply clueless and stupid in MS's DNA, or at least in the Windows division.

I expect the stores to devolve into a grotesque mashup of an Apple Store, a Hot Topic, and a tupperware party.

Parts of your post are pretty funny

I think as soon as a company tries to be everything to everybody they become really lousy at everything. That's what worries me sometimes about Apple. People say they should get into enterprise computing. I'm not so sure. Microsoft just wants it all. They should stay with the business niche and Apple should stay with the creatives and the young consumers.

The mind share thing is pretty accurate. Microsoft just wants to appear cool like Apple. The stores are not really about selling anything but merely an attempt to stop losing the younger generation who hang out at the mall.

When people compare Mac percentages to PC they don't often present it in the context of demographics. Mac is really a lot higher than you might think at college which is a really important factor that Microsoft can't ignore.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #77 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Parts of your post are pretty funny

I think as soon as a company tries to be everything to everybody they become really lousy at everything. That's what worries me sometimes about Apple. People say they should get into enterprise computing. I'm not so sure. Microsoft just wants it all. They should stay with the business niche and Apple should stay with the creatives and the young consumers.

The mind share thing is pretty accurate. Microsoft just wants to appear cool like Apple. The stores are not really about selling anything but merely an attempt to stop losing the younger generation who hang out at the mall.

When people compare Mac percentages to PC they don't often present it in the context of demographics. Mac is really a lot higher than you might think at college which is a really important factor that Microsoft can't ignore.

To be honest, MS shouldn't even be in the consumer tech biz to begin with. There are any number of others that could probably do it better than MS and do justice to consumers' heightened expectations in terms of a safe, productive and easy experience.
post #78 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

Wow! Contacting the retail store managers? Quite an interesting tactic.

I'm actually really curious to see when Microsoft brings a retail store to my area (central NJ), and how it will fare.

well one has to wonder if they might really come out with that new tablet and not oem it to hp, Dell, and so on. I always wondered why they never made a computer that they would have control over.

With regard to trying to get employees, this happens all the time in any field. I'm just wondering how much better they will pay. A while back, Apple folk in retail made good money but now that so many want to work there, they pay the specialist like 10.50 to 11 an hour. Back in the day, the geniuses used to make $30 an hour, now it's down to$17 plus they do this whole grow your own program where a genius who used to be specialist, still gets paid his specialist pay grade. One friend of mine, is doing that and has been for almost a year. IMHO, this is just apples way to save more money. Plus at one store I know in Pasadena, store #34, they have very few full time and 4-5 times more part time, thus excluding them from health benefits. Hmmm.

So, am curiuos to see if Microsoft pays more and again, I think if they come out with that computer on their own, that could be a game changer as Apple reduced it's prices due to all the Microsoft commercials.

Very interesting times and hopefully, the consumer wins both on the mac and pc side as I could see some mac users getting that Microsoft device.

Peace fam.
post #79 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

... Finally stealing a successful employee from a competitor will cost that competitor quite a bit more then the 2x the employees salary.

Dave

And that, as it has always been, is Microsoft's modus operandi.
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #80 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Parts of your post are pretty funny

I think as soon as a company tries to be everything to everybody they become really lousy at everything. T


It's true what they say .... If you try to stand for everything, you wind up standing for nothing.
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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