Microsoft flashing green in bid to poach Apple Retail experts - Page 2

Originally Posted by Maximara

Anyone who changed jobs just on an offer IMHO is a total idiot. Now a promise in writing that is a different matter.

Originally Posted by NasserAE

If I am not mistaken Apple started with two trial stores as well and now they have more than 270.

Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success. Maybe MS will not be making millions from their retail stores but I don't think that's the point. I wouldn't be surprised if Dell, HP, and other PC manufacturers are aiding MS with their retail plans.
However you look at it, it will be a win for those who leave from Apple to the largest software developer in history, which is a fact whether we like MS or not.

Originally Posted by addabox

Yes, and? Because one company has had success doing something, every company that does that is bound to succeed?

I don't think anyone is claiming that MS is going under.

On the other hand, if these first two stores don't do very well, it's a little hard to imagine MS "pumping money" into an undertaking as vast as a network of retail stores. It's one thing to sell the Xbox at a loss to drive adoption-- MS sees it as critical to their strategy for getting into the living room.

But what, exactly, do stores do for Microsoft? Apple decided to seize control of their retail message because they were being so poorly served by big box retailers. Does Microsoft has this problem? Are people having a hard time figuring out where to get the MS gear they crave?

Running their own stores were a vital part of Apple's plan to rebuild the brand, and they've been a huge success in that regard. For many people, the Apple store is now synonymous with the whole Apple vibe.

MS, on the other hand, is simply trying to sprinkle a little "cool" dust on their brand. That's a much vaguer motivation for spending a great deal of money, and the payoffs are likely to be vague, as well.

Add to that the already mentioned problem that MS simply doesn't have the kind of product lineup that lends itself to making a store a center of enthusiasm, and I think the jury is still very much out as to whether MS ever expands this idea much past the first few stores.

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Regardless of whether the retail store idea will add to MS revenues or not, which I am sure is not the goal of the whole thing, you can't blame those who left Apple for a better paycheck and benefits. If history did teach us anything it would be to never underestimate MS. It's business not personal.

Originally Posted by Woochifer

Like it or not, the Apple stores are not necessarily the best places to work. They don't pay well because they get so many applicants that want to work there. An article (I think in the NY Times) I read earlier this year indicated that an applicant faces better odds trying to get into Harvard than getting a job at an Apple store.

On the flip side, Apple can pick and choose from the best of the bunch, and that has helped them establish the Apple stores' reputation for customer service. Even if Microsoft poaches these Apple store employees, Apple still has a large pool of eager applicants that want to work there. Apple store employees have the added advantage of selling high demand products.

Right now, Apple's stores generate the highest sales per square foot in the retail business, and the employees do not work on commission. The Apple stores are consequential to Apple's bottomline because so much of the company's revenue is generated by their retail operations, and they help pad the profit margins because they represent direct sales with no middleman.

Despite MS' "me too" entry into the retail trade, I don't see how they can generate the same kind of sales volume that Apple does. Unlike Macs, Windows PCs are available everywhere and they are low margin products. MS does not have a weak link with their distribution channels.

Apple got into the retail business because they had a weak retail presence, and most of those retailers that carried Macs also carried PCs and did not actively promote Macs. Because Apple is a hardware manufacturer, the retail presence works to their benefit by serving as a point of sale and physical site where customers could find answers and get tech support.

MS does not have this same need, so I don't see what they hope to accomplish with their retail stores, other than try to steal some sales from Apple and serve as a showcase for MS' products. It just seems more like a vanity project and marketing-driven play than something that will actually generate a lot of profits for MS.

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

Great post.

They're trying to buy taste in terms of outward appearances, rather allowing it to ensue as a complement to products that commnicate the same (Apple.) MS is trying desperately to shed their bargain-bin, Wal-Mart-esque image, and they believe these stores will give them that special panache, plus a "central" location for everything Microsoft. Except that MS' business model doesn't support that image of taste, nor does it call for a central hot-spot for all things MS, since every BestBuy can function as one.

This is purely window-dressing by MS to capture positive mindshare. But "hip and cool" happens when the products you sell are "hip and cool." And MS aint.

Originally Posted by Winter

Wow! Contacting the retail store managers? Quite an interesting tactic.
a

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

The typical MS solution to most problems:

Just throw more money at it. It applies to retail too, but so do its limitations.

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success.

Originally Posted by charlituna




you mean like this

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Earlier this week, reports surfaced that Microsoft contacted Apple retail store managers in an attempt to lure them away. The employees were offered raises and compensation for moving expenses if they agreed to work for Redmond, Wash.-based heavyweight, which intends to open its first brick-and-mortar stores this fall.

Originally Posted by mesomorphicman

People do not go to or buy from an Apple store because of the employees. They do so because of the products, experience, curiosity, and "coolness" factor. Apple could have well-trained monkeys in the stores and people would still go to and buy from if they can get the same experience and products. Okay, maybe not well trained monkeys, but they could have only well-trained 17 year olds and it wouldn't matter (but monkeys sounds funnier to me). Point is... even if MSFT hires every Apple store employee, who cares - Apple will just go out hire more people to work there. For every person you see in an Apple store there are 3-5 others at least who are equally qualified and easy to train waiting to fill their spot.

It's not like people will walk by a Windows store and think, "hey MS just hired all the Apple store employee's, forget the iPhone or MacBook Pro -- let's go buy a Zune!"

:nobody (Odysseus)

Originally Posted by sippincider

There was an era when General Motors wasn't going under within anyone's lifetime, and jumping ship strictly for a paycheck and pension was the thing to do. My how things can change...

I'm not accusing MS of "going under", at least not for the moment. What I am saying it's very dangerous for MS to think they can buy passion and loyalty (versus careerists out for a buck), and to keep throwing big money into also-ran ventures while their cash cows continue to stagnate (Windows 7 IS stagnation).

And someone still needs to explain how MS plans to drive sales traffic into these stores. For some reason I don't see people lining up days ahead to get the latest Office.

I wouldn't have anything to do with MS, for any amount of money. MS is going to fill itself with yes-men precisely when it needs a SWIFT KICK!

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success.

Originally Posted by teckstud

You really have issues with MSFT that you need help with. I feel sorry for you. They really annoy you , it's so sad.

Originally Posted by CommonSense

Apple's retail stores tend to be fairly stressful, boiler room types of environments. What once started as a nice, relatively calm places populated by people who actually knew something about the product are now constantly mobbed by throngs of idiot teenagers whose only relation to the Apple brand is their iPod and/or iPhone, and oh -- "hey, how convenient, that there's these computers in the store so I can shit away half my day on Facebook while waiting 3.5 hours for my name to come up at the Genius Bar to fix a stupid problem I could've figured out at homeif I knew how to use Google, and which I probably wouldn't have had if I used my iPod/iPhone with a Mac instead of my stupid Windows box!"

(Kinda like how AI forums has changed over the last couple of years, but that's a discussion for another day . . . )

My point is that the store managers probably are worn to the bone by now, and what little brand loyalty they had to begin with (and I don't think many of them do -- for most of them, it's just a job, and they don't have loyalty that goes back to Apple's "dark days" in the mid-'90s, not by a LONG shot) is GONE. Especially in this economy, "double your salary" is very compelling.

It's not just M$ that's aware of this. Trust me, certain independent Apple resellers, who run stores that are profitable (maybe not rape-the-earth profitable, like Apple Retail, but profitable nonetheless) are all too aware of this, too. This is why they're getting applications from people who used to work at Apple's own stores, even at lower rates of pay. In fact, I'd venture to guess that until Microsoft Retail came along, independent Apple resellers were poaching a few Apple Store employees, too. Only difference is that those employees came willingly, not as a result of having dollars waved in front of their faces.

Not that I know firsthand or anything.

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Let's be real. Microsoft is not going under within our lifetime and given MS history they will keep pumping money into this until they success. Maybe MS will not be making millions from their retail stores but I don't think that's the point. I wouldn't be surprised if Dell, HP, and other PC manufacturers are aiding MS with their retail plans.
However you look at it, it will be a win for those who leave from Apple to the largest software developer in history, which is a fact whether we like MS or not.

Originally Posted by jcmiami

Just imagine you were offered DOUBLE your salary to work somewhere else...wouldn't you do it?

Originally Posted by kellya74u

How Innovative & creative for Microsoft to, once again, steal APPLE ideas, copy them, and are now so desperate, to steal employees away. Sure, you can buy anybody for money, but sell your soul in the process. This is further proof of how debased Microsoft is, lacking in character, & ruthless. Some would say, "business is business." I say, "bad business has to resort to bad business." If Microsoft had its act even a little bit together, they could perhaps do the opposite, absolutely not hire anyone who has worked for Apple or owns Apple products. If 'business is business' is the rule of the land, the I hope a good 1/3 of the employees that go to work for Microsoft stores are actually Apple spies who report back everything to Apple. It would be interesting to see the faces of those who take the higher money to see how convincing they are, telling young/old & vulnerable Microsoft customers that they are indeed purchasing a superior product (Windows) & 'we'll see you real soon' (when you have to bring it back with viruses).

Originally Posted by nagromme

It's just a job--if you're offered a lot more money, then unless you really like your Apple job (which is separate from liking Apple products) I say take it

There's always the risk of it being a shorter-term opportunity than you hoped, of course.

Originally Posted by kellya74u

If thing don't work out as MS, "gee, um, will you take me back???"

Originally Posted by JDW

"Somewhere else"? No, I wouldn't. You see, you and I could probably earn 4 times the salary we make now, simply by moving to Iraq and working in the field of "security." But are you going to do that? No. (If you were willing, you would be there right now.)

What you MEANT to ask was, "Wouldn't you change jobs if you could double your salary, without hazarding your health, working at similar workplace with a similar position on a similar set of products and services?" The answer to that question will be "yes" by people short-term thinkers who are willing to sell themselves to the highest bidder and "no" to those whose convictions are stronger than the almighty greenback.

Chances are MS cannot afford to pay outrageous salaries in the long term. MS is doing this now to lure people from Apple stores. But if it's stores are not successful, they of course won't cut those large salaries. Oh no. They will just close the stores and put and end to those jobs. Apple should therefore create a hiring policy that says, "if you quit Apple to work for MS, don't expect to get hired back when times get tough at Redmond."

Originally Posted by addabox

My guess is that MS is prepared to lose money on these things (AKA seemingly everything they do outside of the Windows/Office duopoly).

They're not looking to move product, they're looking to build mindshare for whatever version of the "Windows experience" they're currently touting.

They can see that Apple is having a lot of success with "ecosystems" and "synergies" across multiple hardware platforms and al kinds of software; they figure you can more or less do the same thing with Windows but maybe people aren't quite getting that.

So I would expect to see a heavy emphasis on PC/Xbox/Media Center/Zune integration (insofar as that exists).

However, we should never forget that Microsoft is the company that produced this.

I don't care what anyone says, a company that is capable of making that, and thinking that it's a marketing tool, is in danger of trying to sell things in their stores by affixing a dead cat to each item. It really sort of deifies imagination, the terribleness.

So while they may be able to make their best effort to simply clone Apple's stores, there is something deeply clueless and stupid in MS's DNA, or at least in the Windows division.

I expect the stores to devolve into a grotesque mashup of an Apple Store, a Hot Topic, and a tupperware party.

Originally Posted by mstone

Parts of your post are pretty funny

I think as soon as a company tries to be everything to everybody they become really lousy at everything. That's what worries me sometimes about Apple. People say they should get into enterprise computing. I'm not so sure. Microsoft just wants it all. They should stay with the business niche and Apple should stay with the creatives and the young consumers.

The mind share thing is pretty accurate. Microsoft just wants to appear cool like Apple. The stores are not really about selling anything but merely an attempt to stop losing the younger generation who hang out at the mall.

When people compare Mac percentages to PC they don't often present it in the context of demographics. Mac is really a lot higher than you might think at college which is a really important factor that Microsoft can't ignore.

Originally Posted by Winter

Wow! Contacting the retail store managers? Quite an interesting tactic.

I'm actually really curious to see when Microsoft brings a retail store to my area (central NJ), and how it will fare.

Originally Posted by DaveGee

... Finally stealing a successful employee from a competitor will cost that competitor quite a bit more then the 2x the employees salary.

Dave

Originally Posted by mstone

Parts of your post are pretty funny

I think as soon as a company tries to be everything to everybody they become really lousy at everything. T