or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Report: Apple pushed Intel to develop Light Peak cabling
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Report: Apple pushed Intel to develop Light Peak cabling

post #1 of 156
Thread Starter 
Following a demonstration by Intel of an advanced new optical data port called Light Peak, a new report says Apple actually brought the concept to Intel and that the new standard will play "a hugely important role" in upcoming Apple products.

Engadget reported the news first, based on "an extremely reliable source." The site said it reviewed evidence that Apple began talks with Intel in 2007 to develop a new cabling standard with the capacity to handle "massive amounts of data" and replace a variety of existing ports, including USB, FireWire, and DisplayPort.

The article said initial conversation and fleshing out of the Light Peak standard began between Steve Jobs and Intel CEO Paul Otellini. Apple expressed a need for a single port and that optical signaling made the most sense.

Apple is expected to incorporate Light Peak quickly and will use it to replace other legacy ports, much as it did with USB on the original iMac, albeit on a smaller scale. Engadget said that based on what it saw, it expects Apple to roll out the new connector on machines next fall, replacing existing ports for networking, display, and general peripheral use.

Within another year, it expects Apple to begin rolling out a low power version suitable for use in mobile devices such as the iPhone, iPod touch, and a version of the tablet device Apple is expected to bring to market early next year.

Light Peak uses optical rather than electrical signaling to achieve an initial throughput of 10Gbps ("you could transfer a full-length Blu-Ray movie in less than 30 seconds" Intel says). That's similar to high-end optical Fibre Channel or HDMI, and ten times faster than Gigibit Ethernet, more than twenty times faster than USB 2.0, and three times faster than eSATA/SATA 300. Within a decade, Intel expects to achieve speeds of 100 Gbps.

Unlike bulky copper cables (like HDMI), Light Peak achieves its speeds over fibre optic strands the size of a human hair. And unlike existing ports focused on solving a specific problem, such as USB for simple peripherals, DisplayPort for video, SATA for disk drives, and Ethernet for networking, Light Peak can handle multiple protocols over a single cable.

Replacing nearly all of the external ports on existing notebooks or mobile devices with Light Peak would enable a new generation of industrial designs without sacrificing features, as the MacBook Air had to do to achieve its thin outline. It would also enable users to run a single cable to an external display to provide video, audio, touch input, and peripheral expansion that included blazing network performance and high speed disk access.

In an introduction of the new standard, Intel explains on its website, "existing electrical cable technology in mainstream computing devices is approaching practical limits for speed and length, due to electro-magnetic interference (EMI) and other issues. However, optical technology, used extensively in data centers and telecom communications, does not have these limitations since it transmits data using light instead of electricity. Light Peak brings this optical technology to mainstream computing and consumer electronic devices in a cost-effective manner."

post #2 of 156
This is going to be HUGE!
post #3 of 156
One of the worse things about iPhone is how long it takes to transfer apps and movies. A 10Gbit link sure would help.
post #4 of 156
iphone is limited by the speed of flash, which in a lot of cases is slower than hard disk
post #5 of 156
Four Macs in the house, three different display output ports. I'd love to delay my next display purchase until this comes out. If it's even close to this schedule.
Emailing video from iPhone to Apple TV , sort of..
Reply
Emailing video from iPhone to Apple TV , sort of..
Reply
post #6 of 156
This is interesting.

The problem is - the harddrive speed. If a laptop have 4800 or 5200 RPM, that's not going to be good with apple's newest Light Peak.

I wondered if it will be much faster with either 7200 RPM or SSD?

Even the FW 800 or USB 3, it still "lag" behind b/c of the Harddrive speed. I hope I make sense on this one.
post #7 of 156
Ahh! But storage speed is going to get a lot faster and smaller...

Check out the speeds of the SDXC. According to my calculations SDXC is twice as fast as a 7,200 RPM hard drive.

Unfortunatly present SD enabled Mac's can't use the speed, only the storage capacity up to 2TB.



Of course the problem is naturally is power with Light Peak, most Apple cables provide both data and power.

So are we going to see some sort of hybrid?


I miss my Firewire iPod... *sniffle*


Third party fiber cable networking for Mac's has been around for quite some time, used for G5 based supercomputers, when the G5 processors was all the rage.


I wouldn't be surprised if this article came out from Apple because of the fact that Intel was running Light Peak cabling on a hackintosh, in violation of EULA.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
Reply
post #8 of 156
I would welcome an über port to rule them all, but Apple's endless tinkering with monitor connectivity is kind of crazy making.

If this article is to believed, no sooner will have people bought their peripherals and adapters to make use of Apple's odd ball mini display port machines than Apple will change it up once again.

How many formats does that make in the last ten years or so?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #9 of 156
I have to agree with the first post, this is going to be huge. However I don't see it replacing USB2, that low speed interface is very much suitable for it's original use.

What I find interesting is the thought that Apple brought up the idea. It makes me wonder if the intent is a Firewire like interface with optical media. At the demo the had a huge LCD screen running off a data link with disk access over the same link. It just seemed like a Firewire over optical type protocol. In anyevent I'm hoping that Intel is on board in a big way and that they don't screw things up like they did with Firewire. By that I mean royalties and the other things done to slow adoption.

Which brings up another concern I hope this is cheap and easy to implement so that it is adopted by a wide range of hardware. That and an easy to implement API, without all the registration issues of USB. In otherwords I hope that hardware vendors will have an easy time bringing out products.

Of course people looking at buying Display Port based monitors have to be concerned. But it does allude to the possibility that Apple is working on very high resolution displays for next year.


Dave
post #10 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I would welcome an über port to rule them all, but Apple's endless tinkering with monitor connectivity is kind of crazy making.

If this article is to believed, no sooner will have people bought their peripherals and adapters to make use of Apple's odd ball mini display port machines than Apple will change it up once again.

How many formats does that make in the last ten years or so?

Maybe they will keep mini-display. They had to be developing it at the same time as they were thinking of doing this.

If every computer had a "monitor hole" and a "everything else" hole, it would still be a much more compact situation than at present.
post #11 of 156
Interesting. Looks like Apple was looking to ditch Firewire and go with Light Peak, much like it did with USB and CD drives on the iMac G3. I guess with Firewire there was enough of an outcry that they brought it back temporarily.
PC Gamer, Musician, Mac Geek. | Jerion.us
Reply
PC Gamer, Musician, Mac Geek. | Jerion.us
Reply
post #12 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Of course the problem is naturally is power with Light Peak, most Apple cables provide both data and power.

So are we going to see some sort of hybrid?

+1.

I'm hoping it's actually 2 cables in one sheath. 1 optical + 1 power.
post #13 of 156
I wasn't paying attention to the Light Peak announcement, and now I'm extremely confused.

Jobs is picky about this kind of things. If this is true, Firewire is dead, period. No 3200 for you.

As for USB3, I'm not sure what this means. Apple can't ignore that the entire market will go to USB3 this winter, but at the same time adopting USB3 means that Light Peak adoption will lag.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #14 of 156
"In addition, Intel said it's working on bundling the optical fiber with copper wire so Light Peak can be used to power devices plugged into the PC, he said."

From: http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10360047-264.html

Bring it on!
post #15 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if this article came out from Apple because of the fact that Intel was running Light Peak cabling on a hackintosh, in violation of EULA.

Would people stop saying this. Intel violated nothing since they are NOT an "End User".

EULA <- read it.
post #16 of 156
Intel knew how to introduce the USB and there are great many reasons Apple asked Intel to "help" with the introduction and development of this with them, so this will make out to be a good thing. Hard thing about standards usually are the introduction and adoption, but once it is the flood gates open. This is a great tech and will help things out a lot in the technology space. IMO.
post #17 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

So Apple Fans have now added Google to the "HATE LIST"?

Is there any company that Apple Fans don't hate. The shere stupidity with the posts in this forum and every other Apple Forum makes me think that I'm real glad that my iPhone will be the last Apple product I will buy.

Apple users spread Hate and mistrust to every company that even has the remotest advantage to them.

You are all a bunch of lunatic Nut Cases that need severe counseling.

Steve Jobs is not a leader, he is not a cult and neither is Apple for anything but a piece of tech that plays music and makes really bad phone calls, Apple Fans spread hate and mistrust to the point of it being really scary as an outside observer.

Apple Fanatics and the Tea Party Clan need to get together. You'd have a great time spreading hate and lies about everything when you don't know SHIT about anything but APPLE and that's pathetic.

I wonder why the mods here haven't booted you for trolling yet.
PC Gamer, Musician, Mac Geek. | Jerion.us
Reply
PC Gamer, Musician, Mac Geek. | Jerion.us
Reply
post #18 of 156
So is this why we haven't heard anything new about Firewire updates? Remember Firewire 1600 and 3200? Yeah. Those. Also could explain my Apple hasn't put eSATA on anything officially.

This is really good news.
post #19 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

So Apple Fans have now added Google to the "HATE LIST"?

Is there any company that Apple Fans don't hate. The shere stupidity with the posts in this forum and every other Apple Forum makes me think that I'm real glad that my iPhone will be the last Apple product I will buy.
.....

Apple Fanatics and the Tea Party Clan need to get together. You'd have a great time spreading hate and lies about everything when you don't know SHIT about anything but APPLE and that's pathetic.


I wasn't aware that google was mentioned except in your tirade. Agreed, Non VendorFan is an troll and an angry one at that.
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
Reply
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
Reply
post #20 of 156
This isn't about connecting peripherals or synching one device with another.

This is about about parts of a single device communicating with other parts of the same device-- for example, a foldable (clamshell) tablet device with 2 touch screens, These can act separately: virtual kb & screen; two screens... or when locked in an extended position, 1 large screen (and virtual kb).

Even better, with a suitable connector, multiples of these devices could be interconnected to create an interactive video wall, operating at the speed of light... plug your iPhone (or anything else you can think of) into that!

This changes everything!

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #21 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

So is this why we haven't heard anything new about Firewire updates? Remember Firewire 1600 and 3200? Yeah. Those. Also could explain my Apple hasn't put eSATA on anything officially.

This is really good news.

No, it's because Apple won't have Blu-ray (with the possible exception of a price that doesn't make it worth the upgrade.

You won't have HDMI without buying an iAdapter.

You will not get Quad Core in anything but the Desktop ProMac.

You won't have anything but laptop parts in the next round of iMac upgrades because Apple is trying to make their computer forecast number without relying on the iPhone or any of their other Media products.

You will see a very poor upgrade to all models this year so Apple can continue to make their numbers. You are paying twice as much for PC parts and can't wait to get your hands on them.
post #22 of 156
Damn I was waiting for Arrandales to pop up in the MacBook Pro to replace one, now I gotta wait for this too!
post #23 of 156
I hope they add Light Peak to Airport Extreme, a 10Gbps lan would be nice.
post #24 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by badNameErr View Post

"In addition, Intel said it's working on bundling the optical fiber with copper wire so Light Peak can be used to power devices plugged into the PC, he said."

From: http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10360047-264.html

Bring it on!

Nice find on the c-net article. It'll be interesting to see how aggressive the adoption rate will be. Device manufacturers are obviously the key and if the mention of Sony being on board is true this will be huge. Powered and more bandwidth than you'd ever need in one cable; awesome!
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
Reply
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
Reply
post #25 of 156
This is a semi-public/private forum, Shouldn't there be a minimum or a cover charge for civility or germaneness?

TIA

Dick
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #26 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K View Post

I wonder why the mods here haven't booted you for trolling yet.

According to your personal private email to me you say you're a Moderator. You tell me.
I'll just be back under a new name, I don't lose sleep over the hatred in this room.

Just do me a favor and drop me a email to let me know if Intel has been added to the "I'm an Appe Fan and Must Hate X Vendor" List.
my
It's hard to keep up with these days, Apple has pissed of every vendor they have ever partnered with.

Let me know when Steve hates puppy dogs and kittens. I'll be sure to add them to them to my list.

Dumb Ass Sheep.
post #27 of 156
Transmitting data over optical cabling is hardly new. Audio information has been transmitted over Toslink for over a decade and most Macs have that built in standard these days. The big deal is the transfer rate. Right now, 10g/sec is only in the realm of data centers. Putting in the hands of consumers is a big deal. And if Apple is actually behind this, it would explain why that Firewire hasn't moved from FW800 or their lack of interest in eSATA.

Should be interesting when we see chipsets...
post #28 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

This isn't about connecting peripherals or synching one device with another.

This is about about parts of a single device communicating with other parts of the same device-- for example, a foldable (clamshell) tablet device with 2 touch screens, These can act separately: virtual kb & screen; two screens... or when locked in an extended position, 1 large screen (and virtual kb).

Even better, with a suitable connector, multiples of these devices could be interconnected to create an interactive video wall, operating at the speed of light... plug your iPhone (or anything else you can think of) into that!

This changes everything!

*

You just described Microsoft's new Tablet device. A two screen planner for the business and home user for Video. Its code named Courier. Look it up.

But I'm guessing on how accurately you described it you already know it.
post #29 of 156
Yamaha Pro Audio announced they are working on new ideas including high speed interconnect for their future devices. Sure wish they would use something like this Light Peak for all their future cabling. Hopefully Apple and Intel are trying to get all manufactures they can on board. It sure would make life easier if all hardware connections were the same and it would then just be up to the software and drivers.

Here's the link for the Yamaha white paper.

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/downlo...systems_en.pdf
post #30 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

This isn't about connecting peripherals or synching one device with another.

This is about about parts of a single device communicating with other parts of the same device-- for example, a foldable (clamshell) tablet device with 2 touch screens, These can act separately: virtual kb & screen; two screens... or when locked in an extended position, 1 large screen (and virtual kb).

Even better, with a suitable connector, multiples of these devices could be interconnected to create an interactive video wall, operating at the speed of light... plug your iPhone (or anything else you can think of) into that!

This changes everything!

*

Yes it does. For me this is also about miniaturization, simplification and just very cool design. The idea of a single cable / port design that can cover all needs is awesome. With multiple protocols sharing that one cable there might one day be a practical way to clean up the present cable mess. Apple certainly leads the way here but we are still a long way from cable nirvana. At the moment my MacBook is connected to my Cinema Display with a triple cable. The monitor itself is powered with a big fat cable. Then there are the usual USB suspects. If these can all be replaced by one thin little cable leading to a small powered hub tucked away in a shelf somewhere I would be oh so happy. The elimination of cables is a big part of the Apple design aesthetic and as we all know sometimes wireless isn't possible or simply doesn't cut it.
This does indeed change everything.
post #31 of 156
NVF, what are you, some kind of (bad) comedian? You complain about all the "hate", then paste your own hateful drivel here? What a pathetic hypocrite. If this is such a bad group of people, why do you hang around? Get on your high horse and ride off into the sunset... PLEASE.
post #32 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big KC View Post

NVF, what are you, some kind of (bad) comedian? You complain about all the "hate", then paste your own hateful drivel here? What a pathetic hypocrite. If this is such a bad group of people, why do you hang around? Get on your high horse and ride off into the sunset... PLEASE.

if you feed the trolls, it attracts others..like raccoons.

just put him in your ignore list. I've just graced him/it/her with a place in mine.
post #33 of 156
Time to buy stock in whatever company is making Fiber Optics... Between FIOSS and now this... Dow Corning?

Sounds pretty slick. One connector daisy chaining all your devices together. I can see the advantage in video and somewhat in audio but running optics between devices... LAN-sure! We are doing that now.

Durability comes to question. I've snapped some FO lines before (heck, June 09) so I can see this being a bit of an issue that will need solved. You can bend copper 180* but FO doesn't like that so much.
post #34 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

You just described Microsoft's new Tablet device. A two screen planner for the business and home user for Video. Its code named Courier. Look it up.

But I'm guessing on how accurately you described it you already know it.

Actually it sounds exactly like my Son's Ninetendo DS. A Clamshell two screen touch sensitive device. Although it's been out for some time so maybe you were right.
post #35 of 156
So how would this work, in practice? If the interconnect is capable of handling lots of different signal types, do you just put a bunch of Light Peak ports on a machine, so that the user can use them in whatever configuration he or she wants?

Or does the spec allow multiple signal types on a single port simultaneously? So that, for instance, if you had a device that you wanted to make as small as possible, you could give it a single Light Peak port on an internal Light Peak bus which could connect to a hub/router of some sort and drive a variety of external devices i/o devices at once?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #36 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

According to your personal private email to me you say you're a Moderator. You tell me.
I'll just be back under a new name, I don't lose sleep over the hatred in this room.

Just do me a favor and drop me a email to let me know if Intel has been added to the "I'm an Appe Fan and Must Hate X Vendor" List.
my
It's hard to keep up with these days, Apple has pissed of every vendor they have ever partnered with.

Let me know when Steve hates puppy dogs and kittens. I'll be sure to add them to them to my list.

Dumb Ass Sheep.

The only person with hatred on this board is you. Most of us just laugh at your idiocy. Your paranoid delusions hurt nobody but yourself.
post #37 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

You just described Microsoft's new Tablet device. A two screen planner for the business and home user for Video. Its code named Courier. Look it up.

But I'm guessing on how accurately you described it you already know it.


NVF, is this what you are referring to?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4928842683632#
post #38 of 156
The fact that it has power, having a dock to attach any number of other devices to it would be pretty convenient, especially for laptop users. For example connect an eSATA portable drive to a MBA and run an external display off the same cable as well as capture video from an old firewire camcorder over the hub.

I suspect this connector is intended to replace ethernet too so again MBA owners can plug in to a high speed network.

What would be nice is if one day we could plug computers directly into phone lines the way we used to. Even if it required new phones, I'd rather do without relying on a modem plugged in all the time. Sure we'll still need routers but it cuts down the cost and cabling, plus we get VoiP for free. It will exclude calls to mobile networks and possibly international calls at first.

It's a little curious why Intel would develop this alongside USB3 though. Maybe this is why they delayed it? I suspect for peripherals, it will be best to have both USB and this optical connection. If you look at the side of the Mac laptops, the biggest ports are ethernet and FW800 so to reduce the thickness, those have to be replaced.

Having it on the iphone would be interesting. No more massive plug connector and as I said before, if it was able to sit inside the device, it would be much more attractive. It could even double the iphone up as a landline phone. Aren't people tired of having to call people by number? Companies even have to put words into the numbers to help people remember them by using a code system and you have different numbers for different devices.

I'd like my VoiP iphone to be able to call people by name/profile like Skype and if I need a local service, I can do a search way more easily as the profile would have that information.
post #39 of 156
The biggest problem Apple would have is getting anyone else to give a damn. I can't see USB going away for a very long time yet.
post #40 of 156
Wasn't this optical interface supposed to be part of the USB 3.0 standard? There are numerous articles that can be googled about just this subject.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9780794-1.html

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/09...b_3_announced/

If this is indeed true and not just rumor, I wonder why the new buzzword?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Report: Apple pushed Intel to develop Light Peak cabling