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Report: Apple pushed Intel to develop Light Peak cabling - Page 3

post #81 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I don't see this as a replacement for Ethernet or low bandwidth USB. I do see it as a replacement for:
  • Firewire
  • High-speed USB peripherals (HDs, scanners, etc.)
  • eSATA & SATA
  • Video ports to an extent
  • ExpressCards
  • PCI express x1 slots

You might be alone.

"The technology is based of the same concept of HDMI 1.4 -- you take one cable and you apply technology to it that allows it to carry out multiple protocols. In the case of 'Light Peak' you can have a cable that can carry a high quality video signal, transfer data at 10GBps, connect with an iPod, provide USB connectivity, and allow for the same capabilities of ethernet. http://t3chh3lp.com/blog/2009/9/26/a...-light-pe.html

"With the initial specification set to transfer data at a blistering 10Gpbs full duplex over cables as long as 100 meters (and with speeds up to 100Gbps lined up for future revisions), a single Light Peak connection could replace DVI, USB, gigabit Ethernet, FireWire, eSATA and just about anything else that would connect your computer to its environs. http://www.tuaw.com/2009/09/26/is-ap...ak-connectivi/
post #82 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I don't see this as a replacement for Ethernet or low bandwidth USB. I do see it as a replacement for:
  • Firewire
  • High-speed USB peripherals (HDs, scanners, etc.)
  • eSATA & SATA
  • Video ports to an extent
  • ExpressCards
  • PCI express x1 slots

If all of those things go Light Peak, I can't see where low bandwidth USB would have any reason to carry on. Sure, it's overkill, but why keep a legacy port for, I guess, keyboards and pointing devices when virtually everything else is on the same bus?

I agree that ethernet is a pretty entrenched standard, and for consumers at least a lot (if not most) networking past the modem happens wirelessly, so there doesn't seem to be much upside there.

Here's a thought: if Apple had a hand in the spec, do you think they made sure Intel included some of the firewire fun we've come to know and love? I'm thinking specifically of boot drives and target disc mode.
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post #83 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

You might be alone.

"The technology is based of the same concept of HDMI 1.4 -- you take one cable and you apply technology to it that allows it to carry out multiple protocols. In the case of 'Light Peak' you can have a cable that can carry a high quality video signal, transfer data at 10GBps, connect with an iPod, provide USB connectivity, and allow for the same capabilities of ethernet. http://t3chh3lp.com/blog/2009/9/26/a...-light-pe.html

"With the initial specification set to transfer data at a blistering 10Gpbs full duplex over cables as long as 100 meters (and with speeds up to 100Gbps lined up for future revisions), a single Light Peak connection could replace DVI, USB, gigabit Ethernet, FireWire, eSATA and just about anything else that would connect your computer to its environs. http://www.tuaw.com/2009/09/26/is-ap...ak-connectivi/

But I think that "single cable" thing is a bit misleading, in that it conjures up visions of, well, a single cable.

Once past the case of your computer, that single cable still needs to physically connect with all the devices that used to use the various interconnect standards.

Now if it became a ubiquitous standard, and all of my devices had the same interconnect so that I only had to worry about keeping one kind of cable around, or perhaps one kind of cable and one kind of hub/splitter/router, then terrific. But I'm still going to have single cable to hub to many cables, or many ports to many cables, and in the case of infrastructure type connects such as ethernet, it's not even clear why that's an improvement.

High speed data transfer is nice, of course, but the more I think about it the more I thing single cable to some kind of distribution thing which stays connected to your peripherals is the payoff.
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post #84 of 156
NonVendorFan Banned - break out the champagne. Good riddance.
post #85 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

He's not permanently banned. The ban expires in three days.

Shame.
post #86 of 156
HP claims to be the leader in optical data transmission.

There is a general trend in the whole industry to move to optical interconnect, and a lot of work has been done to build light-pipes directly into silicon for the purpose of photonic-to-electronic data conversion. So I see this as merely another case where Apple drives the market initially, but hasn't really invented anything.
Cat: the other white meat
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Cat: the other white meat
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post #87 of 156
I was planning to buy a Mac Pro in November for video editing. Is it worth it to wait another year?
post #88 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolume View Post

I was planning to buy a Mac Pro in November for video editing. Is it worth it to wait another year?

It all depends why you were planning to buy a Mac Pro in the first place.

Is it worth it to wait another year? Well, if you have done your homework and had decided that 'this' Mac is for you and were just waiting because you needed a couple of months to save up the cash, absolutely. And just about any other reason you are waiting for.

As I tell all my friends, clients and even people I meet in the Apple store that never had a Mac before or never experienced the power of the latest iteration and would mull for hours, days and weeks wether to make the plunge, "Within 15 minutes of setting it up, you will invariably feel sorry that you stalled as long you did."
post #89 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

HP claims to be the leader in optical data transmission.

Not with this functionality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

There is a general trend in the whole industry to move to optical interconnect, and a lot of work has been done to build light-pipes directly into silicon for the purpose of photonic-to-electronic data conversion. So I see this as merely another case where Apple drives the market initially, but hasn't really invented anything.

Sounds like you may need your eyes checked.

Suggest you see the movie, 'Flash of Genius'.
post #90 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

It all depends why you were planning to buy a Mac Pro in the first place.

Is it worth it to wait another year? Well, if you have done your homework and had decided that 'this' Mac is for you and were just waiting because you needed a couple of months to save up the cash, absolutely. And just about any other reason you are waiting for.

As I tell all my friends, clients and even people I meet in the Apple store that never had a Mac before or never experienced the power of the latest iteration and would mull for hours, days and weeks wether to make the plunge, "Within 15 minutes of setting it up, you will invariably feel sorry that you stalled as long you did."

I am already a Mac user, and have converted most of my friends... I am just confused as to the benefits of Light Peak. I am not the most technical person. For a video editor (I edit in HD BTW), what would the benefits of Light Peak be?
post #91 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Who said that?

But in case you were wondering, "In addition, Intel said it's working on bundling the optical fiber with copper wire so Light Peak can be used to power devices plugged into the PC" as previously pointed out by badNameErr in post #14, and supported by his link http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10360047-264.html

Page one of this thread it was said.

Eh, if they bundle it with copper then it's not that thin and light anymore. I am underwhelmed by this. I am not saying it's a good step forward but it's underwhelming. The bottlenecks at the moment are not as much the ports but the flash and hd speeds.
post #92 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

HP claims to be the leader in optical data transmission.

There is a general trend in the whole industry to move to optical interconnect, and a lot of work has been done to build light-pipes directly into silicon for the purpose of photonic-to-electronic data conversion. So I see this as merely another case where Apple drives the market initially, but hasn't really invented anything.

Nobody ever "invents" anything in the pure sense of the word. What we're seeing already exists and is emulated from an accumulation of past experiences but is combined in a way that makes it innovating. Apple does this succesfully more often than not.

Apple may be the first to bring this to personal computers. So while the idea that Apple hasn't invented anything is true (nobody ever invents anything), it's also true that they've brought innovation by bringing something that existed to the mass (companies do this often).
post #93 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If all of those things go Light Peak, I can't see where low bandwidth USB would have any reason to carry on. Sure, it's overkill, but why keep a legacy port for, I guess, keyboards and pointing devices when virtually everything else is on the same bus?

I agree that ethernet is a pretty entrenched standard, and for consumers at least a lot (if not most) networking past the modem happens wirelessly, so there doesn't seem to be much upside there.

Here's a thought: if Apple had a hand in the spec, do you think they made sure Intel included some of the firewire fun we've come to know and love? I'm thinking specifically of boot drives and target disc mode.

Consider that USB is a small port and that there are many devices that people may have that get transferred from one computer to a new one replacing it. Particularly mice, tablets, phone adapters, specialty printers, keyboards, etc. If included in a IO chip already, it makes sense to continue to keep it around for certain legacy applications. I think it would be undesirable for Apple to make everyone get adapters to plug in the multitude of USB peripherals out there.

Ethernet, on the other hand, makes sense to keep it as is. The infrastructure (switches, routers, etc.) is enormous and hugely expensive to replace. The cabling is intrenched in our walls and has its applications where high speed is desired over portability (wifi).
post #94 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolume View Post

I was planning to buy a Mac Pro in November for video editing. Is it worth it to wait another year?

No. This tech won't be out for a while and you have the advantage of having PCI Express slots to upgrade later on.
post #95 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Nobody ever "invents" anything in the pure sense of the word. What we're seeing already exists and is emulated from an accumulation of past experiences but is combined in a way that makes it innovating. Apple does this succesfully more often than not.

Apple may be the first to bring this to personal computers. So while the idea that Apple hasn't invented anything is true (nobody ever invents anything), it's also true that they've brought innovation by bringing something that existed to the mass (companies do this often).

Yep.

There's a whole spectrum of possibilities between "invented something in my basement" and "ushered in new ways of doing things at the mass market level."

There are plenty of cool inventions out there that don't really exist, insofar as affecting people's lives, because the people who invented them don't know how to make them practical, or get the cost down, or they don't really have much of a real world application, or there are high societal or economic or political barriers to adoption.

And particularly in the modern world of interconnected tech, the process of ushering a given invention from inception to being part of a system (which is what it's about, now) is at least difficult, demanding and creative as the act of "inventing" itself.
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post #96 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Consider that USB is a small port and that there are many devices that people may have that get transferred from one computer to a new one replacing it. Particularly mice, tablets, phone adapters, specialty printers, keyboards, etc. If included in a IO chip already, it makes sense to continue to keep it around for certain legacy applications. I think it would be undesirable for Apple to make everyone get adapters to plug in the multitude of USB peripherals out there.

Ethernet, on the other hand, makes sense to keep it as is. The infrastructure (switches, routers, etc.) is enormous and hugely expensive to replace. The cabling is intrenched in our walls and has its applications where high speed is desired over portability (wifi).

Quite possibly undesirable, but not out of the question when it comes to Apple. After all, that's pretty much what they did with USB.
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post #97 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolume View Post

I was planning to buy a Mac Pro in November for video editing. Is it worth it to wait another year?

There will be very few devices at first. It will take years to see if this will stay around
post #98 of 156
I think that Light Peak will be used for transferring data to processors, given it's huge speed and all.


15" Tablet/monitor + desktop powerhouse/holder/connector.

One gets a desktop and a portable computer with one purchase.

Tablet becomes the monitor when connected to the desktop portion.


Any CPU heavy lifting you'll need to take it home to the desktop portion (3D games, rendering, photoshop filters etc)


Optional keyboard if you can't stand typing on a screen.

3G optional.
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #99 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Could you supple references to support your statement?

Thank you.


I used to read pc magazine and other tech rags back then. Apple's royalties were higher than intel's and the chips were more expensive. Fw was great for camcorders but overkill for mice. In the end it was too expensive for pc makers even in the days when the average pc cost $2000 and margins were a lot higher
post #100 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Could you supple references to support your statement?

Thank you.


I used to read pc magazine and other tech rags back then. Apple's royalties were higher than intel's and the chips were more expensive. Fw was great for camcorders but overkill for mice. In the end it was too expensive for pc makers even in the days when the average pc cost $2000 and margins were a lot higher

by that time intel ruled the motherboard market so there was no extra cost for USB since it was already on the motherboard. FireWire needed special cards
post #101 of 156
It's not like more speed is a bad thing, but really how much of an advantage is being able to move a full length HD movie in 3 minutes. If you already have it on your network just stream it from wherever it is. If you are talking about downloading it from the Internet at that speed then the entire infrastructure needs to be Light Peak end to end and I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.

For the common end user they really don't need anything much faster than they already have. At a certain point, home computers don't need to get any faster, they just need to be more convenient to use.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #102 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I wasn't paying attention to the Light Peak announcement, and now I'm extremely confused.

Jobs is picky about this kind of things. If this is true, Firewire is dead, period. No 3200 for you.

As for USB3, I'm not sure what this means. Apple can't ignore that the entire market will go to USB3 this winter, but at the same time adopting USB3 means that Light Peak adoption will lag.

FW 3200 isn't dead. Not even close. The applications using Firewire and it's capability of handling vibration and heat in Jets, Autos, etc., mean it will move right along.

This technology needs advances in casings and will eventually replace it, in say 48 months.
post #103 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Secondly I could really see this as a great phone/palmtop docking solution. Basically the same deal as a laptop dock, but bringing vastly more functionality to your iPhone/Touch. With the rapid improvements in hardware, it surely won't be very long before your "phone" could serve as the the brains of a perfectly capable desktop/mobile system, as long as you had easy access to full sized peripherals-- keyboard, monitor and storage and power.

Basically, it sounds as if Light Peak could enable an über-dock that would make your iPhone/Touch an actual laptop/desktop replacement.

Now we're talking.
post #104 of 156
Apple had better make damn sure that the coming tide of consumer level USB3 devices are fully compatible with this...
post #105 of 156
Does this mean Mini Displayport is dead already?
post #106 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

But I think that "single cable" thing is a bit misleading, in that it conjures up visions of, well, a single cable.

Once past the case of your computer, that single cable still needs to physically connect with all the devices that used to use the various interconnect standards.

Now if it became a ubiquitous standard, and all of my devices had the same interconnect so that I only had to worry about keeping one kind of cable around, or perhaps one kind of cable and one kind of hub/splitter/router, then terrific. But I'm still going to have single cable to hub to many cables, or many ports to many cables, and in the case of infrastructure type connects such as ethernet, it's not even clear why that's an improvement.

High speed data transfer is nice, of course, but the more I think about it the more I thing single cable to some kind of distribution thing which stays connected to your peripherals is the payoff.

Yes, but if the one thin cable could lead to a box off the desk, that would be a amazing. If that box was a hub to which you could plug any device, as well as a networking cable and power cable it would reduce cable clutter on the desk considerably. if all devices and networking communicated through 'light peak' it would be wonderful but until such time a new market for hubs would open up.
It would be an improvement to ethernet because of the speed, the size of the cable and the number of cables required. I am not sure of the cost benefit per foot, of course.
post #107 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If this article is to believed, no sooner will have people bought their peripherals and adapters to make use of Apple's odd ball mini display port machines than Apple will change it up once again.

That's a good argument against this being a short-term upcoming replacement for a monitor. They would have been doing both in parallel, and it would have made more sense to stick with DVI than start another standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

So is this why we haven't heard anything new about Firewire updates? Remember Firewire 1600 and 3200? Yeah. Those. Also could explain my Apple hasn't put eSATA on anything officially.

I guess that's the opposite argument. Stick with existing technologies (edit: which are getting dated, but you're waiting for the next big thing).

Perhaps the optical is for devices other than monitors (for now). I'd also like to see Ethernet networking take the next leap, though that would be difficult without rewiring the house so not so important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FtrV8 View Post

Damn I was waiting for Arrandales to pop up in the MacBook Pro to replace one, now I gotta wait for this too!

There's ALWAYS something good coming in the next year. And usually 2 or 3 things great rumoured for the coming year. There are sweet spots, of course....
post #108 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Don't go assuming about everyone here. I myself have a lot of hatred.

I hate it when companies purposefully withhold new technologies for the sake of profit...or control for that matter. I hate it when companies screw up what could be great tech products because of ineptitude. I also hate primitive tech in general.

Hate isn't always evil.

hate is always EVIL. always. you will be angry, you will be in pain, it will be only about you and you will be alone. In the end, the hate only hurt you. Other people will learn to avoid you and let you alone.

just let these companies alone and go to do a walk in a forest. it will be nice.
post #109 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

That's a good argument against this being a short-term upcoming replacement for a monitor. They would have been doing both in parallel, and it would have made more sense to stick with DVI than start another standard.



I guess that's the opposite argument. Stick with existing technologies.

Perhaps the optical is for devices other than monitors (for now). I'd also like to see Ethernet networking take the next leap, though that would be difficult without rewiring the house so not so important.



There's ALWAYS something good coming in the next year. And usually 2 or 3 things great rumoured for the coming year. There are sweet spots, of course....


displayport is not an "apple standard". and mini-displayport is just a more little version.

-

of couse, when this new technology will be available (2 years?) you will be drooling on the NEW best thing! Maybe a totally new crazy display technology, or a amazing delirious new holo-stockage thing ? whatever.

The thing is : be happy of the human genius, nothing will force you to upgrade in the minute and you can be amazed by the technology when you want.
post #110 of 156
Two things. First, the main benefit of the technology is it transfers all the data through one cable (e.g. display, USB, Firewire, etc.]. So it needs to go a lot faster to accomplish this. Second, hard drive speed will get a lot faster as the technology gets cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremedesigner View Post

This is interesting.

The problem is - the harddrive speed. If a laptop have 4800 or 5200 RPM, that's not going to be good with apple's newest Light Peak.

I wondered if it will be much faster with either 7200 RPM or SSD?

Even the FW 800 or USB 3, it still "lag" behind b/c of the Harddrive speed. I hope I make sense on this one.
post #111 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by oomu View Post

displayport is not an "apple standard". and mini-displayport is just a more little version.

Yes, but it's not used much at all. So if Apple only wanted it for 6 months, that would be a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oomu View Post

of couse, when this new technology will be available (2 years?) you will be drooling on the NEW best thing!

Yep, exactly
post #112 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yes, but if the one thin cable could lead to a box off the desk, that would be a amazing. If that box was a hub to which you could plug any device, as well as a networking cable and power cable it would reduce cable clutter on the desk considerably. if all devices and networking communicated through 'light peak' it would be wonderful but until such time a new market for hubs would open up.
It would be an improvement to ethernet because of the speed, the size of the cable and the number of cables required. I am not sure of the cost benefit per foot, of course.

I guess, but as I think about it seems like "cable clutter" is really a function of lots of devices plugged into one place. You can move that place around, you can make the cables thinner, but you basically have the same topography. Only wireless actually reduces cabling. Although, as I say, as the cabling for a docking system for a laptop or palmtop, it would be great.

Not that I wouldn't welcome a thin, ubiquitous, high bandwidth do everything cabling standard that can go 100m without signal degradation-- that would be plenty upside for me. Although I kind of have to wonder what a 100m optical cable would actually cost.

At the very least, its a chance for Monster to put "Pure optical digital extreme hi mega" on there packages and charge $300 for a 6' cable.
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post #113 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

At the very least, its a chance for Monster to put "Pure optical digital extreme hi mega" on there packages and charge $300 for a 6' cable.

They could claim it to be "faster than the speed of light." But we wouldn't want to give them any ideas.
Please don't be insane.
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post #114 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokken View Post

If I understand Light Peak correctly, Apple and other PC manufacturers can phrase out all kinds of different ports and only put multiple Light Peak ports in their computers, while consumers can make use of all the ports with their devices rather than only a couple of them. You don't need different kinds of connectors because it's what Light Peak all about.

I think you are right. By having a single internal bus and say 3 ports on the outside they have eliminated a whole bunch of stuff taking up space and using power inside. My concern are with the cables and their incompatibility with everything else already existing. This means for Light Peak to succeed there will need to be cheap converters from Light Peak to Ethernet, Firewire, USB, etc., etc., etc. We don't want to see a repeat of the ADC adapter fiasco again (some might even include Mini DisplayPort too). I don't think that this new tech will in any way decrease the number of cables in use. In fact for a long time it will probably result in a proliferation of cables, hubs, converters and so on.

All that aside the tech looks good.
post #115 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

took too long to ban this person. I never understand people that rant for the reason, their hate the company or product in a site that majority of people use to obtain an update on their favorite company/product.

Okay to provide a opinion, which we may not agree with, but with good logic facts/opinions, but to rant, just do not visit this site.

He was on a personal crusader to change us all.. bye bye

P.S. Please stay away from this site, since if you were throw out of a building/conference/club in real life, you would stay away, have some dignity and know, when you are not wanted.


When a poster is as one sided in his opinion as NVF you have to wonder if he's not getting a paycheck from some "mysterious" competitor whose business model seems to be " never mind improving our own product ... let's just concentrate on eliminating our competition, then we won't have to worry about how crappy our product is" ... sound familiar?
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #116 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctmike78 View Post

This is some nice technology and all, but lets think for a moment- what we are going to actually connect these Light Peak cables to? Think of how many ethernet ports there are out there. Of how many HDMI/DVI/VGA ports there are out there. Of how many USB ports there are out there. Those don't just go away. Apple may be able to do it on Apple designed hardware going forward, but how do you connect to all the current devices out there? Not to be cynical, but do we then have to purchase an assortment of Light Peak-to-____ connectors from Apple to connect existing devices?


You do it the same as any new technology is introduced, gradually, bit by bit ... remember how usb
was brought in? ... first as an alternative and then as the only way.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #117 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

When a poster is as one sided in his opinion as NVF you have to wonder if he's not getting a paycheck from some "mysterious" competitor whose business model seems to be " never mind improving our own product ... let's just concentrate on eliminating our competition, then we won't have to worry about how crappy our product is" ... sound familiar?

It's pretty simple, actually. His purpose is to keep us from being happy and productive. If he can't be happy, then he's gonna make damn sure that at least for a little bit of the day, nobody else is either. It's sad, but that's how trolls operate.

For a more detailed analysis, see here:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-evol...ugh-guy-to-meh

Now let's get back on topic.
PC Gamer, Musician, Mac Geek. | Jerion.us
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post #118 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Don't go assuming about everyone here. I myself have a lot of hatred.

I hate it when companies purposefully withhold new technologies for the sake of profit...or control for that matter. I hate it when companies screw up what could be great tech products because of ineptitude. I also hate primitive tech in general.

Hate isn't always evil.



There is a big difference between dislike and hate and , yes, hate is ALWAYS evil!
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #119 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

there is a long list of technically superior solutions that lost to cheaper good enough competitors. Beta was better than VHS and lost. a lot of people said LD was better than DVD because it wasn't compressed. FW was better than USB but Apple wanted too much money. there were a lot of technically better solutions than TCP/IP and Ethernet but they are history.


My memory might have failed me on this but wasn't beta's failure to have the ability to record as well as play the big reason for it's demise ... please correct me if I'm wrong.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #120 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

My memory might have failed me on this but wasn't beta's failure to have the ability to record as well as play the big reason for it's demise ... please correct me if I'm wrong.

No, it recorded. One of the main issues was that Beta had a shorter recording time than VHS.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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