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Steve Ballmer: Safari a 'rounding error,' Mac losing market share - Page 2

post #41 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

He reminds me of a yappy little insecure dog. Perhaps a Shitzu.

yes maybe an inbred shitzu...with some genetic problems...
post #42 of 220
Take a close look at this chart
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=MSFT...=on&z=m&q=l&c=

It shows Microsoft's stock price from the beginning until now. Ballmer became CEO in the year 2000. The chart clearly shows what's happened to Microsoft's stock price both before and after Ballmer took over.

Bill Gates needs to look for a new leader. Ballmer has been losing almost every battle. He talks the talk but he doesn't walk the walk.

I would sure rather be playing Apple's hand at this juncture than Microsoft's.
post #43 of 220
What's the usage breakdown of mobile browsers? How's WebKit doing vs. IE?

Of course, saying outlandish things gets attention...

And of course media pick these things up as that sells advertising.

"Proof is in the pudding" & right now Microsoft's pudding is still in the oven.
post #44 of 220
This would take both sides of two t-shirts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The Steve Ballmer Delusion Tour:

Ballmer: Apple wont dominate the smartphone market - September 25, 2009
Microsoft CEO Ballmer gets $25,000 raise as company profit plummets 17% - September 19, 2009
*snip*
Microsoft CEO Ballmer: Apple iPod users are music thieves - October 04, 2004
Microsoft CEO Ballmer on the digital home: There is no way that you can get there with Apple - October 03, 2004
post #45 of 220
If Steve Balmer wasn't such an arrogant prick I would say Windows 7 is actually quite nice, but the fact remains, he's the biggest prick on the planet "it only takes one tosser to fuck up a company's reputation", Steve Balmer, you're a fucking tosser, you should have been relegated to tech support years ago.
post #46 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

wtf is a rounding error (not literally of course)? Someone tell this guy that some of us are off the coke and can't "get" his train wreck of thoughts.

Balmer is just being his usual blustering self... and most of this interview (and recent others) is just an outlet for FUD... however a couple of points:

Even though Safari might have a around 4% of the browser market... it's percentage of users on the PC is tiny.

Balmer's comment (from a previous interview) regarding PC to Mac switchers being "a rounding error" was, I believe, related to dollars not specifically market share. Remember that for every Mac switcher Microsoft only looses a sale of one OEM copy of Windows. Maybe 50 bucks ? That could mean around 60-80 million dollars last year. That really is a rounding error out of $60 BILLION. Note: Each switcher is worth a lot lot more to Apple.
post #47 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by star-fish View Post

I'm sure I read somewhere that Mac sales are down this year.

You read wrong!
post #48 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminmissouri View Post

I'm afraid I don't understand.

If Apple's market share is "statistically insignificant", why then did Microsoft finally decide to pump millions of dollars into an ad campaign targeting people who might consider buying Apple computers?

For that matter, why are reporters even bothering to raise the issue?

Hmmm.

Also, why is Microfat opening Apple like stores and trying to lour away apple employees??? Not to mention their failed attempt at an MP3 player.
post #49 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I got myself a few weeks back a pbook g4 12" and it runs everything mac seamlessly, its small, portable has firewire, a beautiful keyboard, 1.25 bg ram, and all these for a the super expensive price of $300. I don't see why a sony netbook at $900 or a crappy dell one at $400 with the shitty intel atom, miniscule keyboard, screen to get myopic reading is a better deal. I don't even see why an average crappy pc at $700 is a better deal than the $999 macbook which is much specked all around has right now a great screen and runs os x, which by definition means about 1000% more productive time for not catering to every awful windows quirk and bad design. Only the times spent by just typing in an item in settings and having appear to you instead of digging in various menus, sub menus, pop ups, sub pop ups to find what you are looking for. You can easily clone your hd and have it boot ready in case of any failure instead of the crappy back up apps that don't even make a decent clone. The list of conveniences is endless...

Well, to each his own.

Exemplary use of hyperbole. 1000% more productive... really? OS X is generally easier to use, more stable and secure than Windows - but not as much as you'd really like to believe. People can use PCs productively you know, it's not all like the adverts say.

I was referring to affordability as opposed to preference, hence mentions of Apple operating at the premium end of the market. You'd rather buy a 3(?) year old Mac than a brand new PC, if only there were more people like you - I could sell my Macbook for a really good price further down the line.
post #50 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Only the times spent by just typing in an item in settings and having appear to you instead of digging in various menus, sub menus, pop ups, sub pop ups to find what you are looking for.

lol, what's a sub pop up?
post #51 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctwise View Post

Lastly, this quote surprised me - "The one thing thats unclear is whats the economic play for anybody else competing with us at the browser level. Is this all about kind of controlling the search box or is it about something else?". That's just plain ignorance. The entire point of Google competing at the browser level is to make the operating system irrelevant. But to do that, you need to increase the base functionality and performance of the browser. IE is a boat anchor in that effort, which explains Chrome and Chrome Frame.

Well, IE is a boat anchor, but making the operating system irrelevant is only an intermediate goal for Google. The real goal is to control information and information access

Of course, his apparent obsession with Apple is a major distraction. Apple isn't the immediate threat to Microsoft. Google is. His lack of ability to focus on real issues is a serious detriment to Microsoft.
post #52 of 220
Balmer is completely delusional. He's in desperate need of medical attention.
post #53 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by naman34 View Post

you're right about mac sales going down.

No. He's wrong.

Quote:
year over year, they were 8% down for 3rd quarter.

According to Apple's results, Mac sales increased by 4% in that quarter. Where are you getting your figures from?
post #54 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by bv911 View Post

"Proof is in the pudding" & right now Microsoft's pudding is still in the oven.

actually the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And ms's pudding will come out of the oven burnt, as per usual
post #55 of 220
[QUOTE=pauldfullerton;1490869 Ballmer should just wait until Apple releases its new tablet computer. That will surely make Ballmer and Microsoft look stupid once again.[/QUOTE]

Unless Windows 7 makes him look stupid first.
post #56 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

No. He's wrong.



According to Apple's results, Mac sales increased by 4% in that quarter. Where are you getting your figures from?

I think he's talking here in the US.
post #57 of 220
WebKit is currently the minority browser on computers, however it is already dominant in smartphones; IE is heading towards being a rounding error in that domain.

http://www.cloudfour.com/448/webkit-...hone-platform/
post #58 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

lol, what's a sub pop up?

According to the windows ui it's a popup from within a pop up, as in a pop up from a pop up for help. And a new type of marvel I discovered via hp adware bundled with a printer in a friend's xp, is the sub pop up where you get a pop up: "you ink level is ok" and then right underneath it after a few secs pops a sub pop up informing you of "glossy hp paper pro" or something.

All brilliantly though out and implemented and all so terribly useful in the microsoft world where simplicity is never to be found.
post #59 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

He reminds me of a yappy little insecure dog. Perhaps a Shitzu.

Come on now......my Shitzu's have at least twice as much intelligence as Ballmer nor do they yap, and they lick themselves for Christ's sake!

I grew up with Windows but jumped ship when Uncle Bill left. Watching Ballmer interact with the public (or even his staff for that matter) is like watching the crazy sea captain sail his ship into a class 5 hurricane laughing madly while telling everyone that it's all smooth sailing ahead!. So funny. Go Microsoft!!
post #60 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Unless Windows 7 makes him look stupid first.

7 has been out as an rc for many months now and the only people that it made to look like fools are the developers who claimed that they didn't actually steal the dock, but implemented a feature available in windows 1.0 . Which was of course such a great and well thought out feature that it took 15 years and apple to actually get it working under windows. Classy stuff from ms developers.
post #61 of 220
Ballmer forgets to mention that Apple designs, and sells the hardware
which Apple's OS and apps run on.

Microsoft makes only software. The appeal of software Mega-Giants is quickly
becoming old-hat and is losing its luster. Since the 1990's in fact.

Apple has done a great job determining what is new, fresh, and appealing
to the new generation of computer users.

Ballmer and Co. are not in the same business, or same league as Apple. And
also, Nokia can wipe the mobile phone market very easily, taking away the
Windows Mobile adoption claims away from MS as well.

Not a good time to own MS stocks. They will only lose value from here on.
post #62 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwilli View Post

If Steve Balmer wasn't such an arrogant prick I would say Windows 7 is actually quite nice, but the fact remains, he's the biggest prick on the planet "it only takes one tosser to fuck up a company's reputation", Steve Balmer, you're a fucking tosser, you should have been relegated to tech support years ago.

Are you kidding? Relegated to tech support? Listening to him give you directions or try to solve your problem would be like listening to the ramblings of a mental patient. On second thought, it might be good for a few laughs.
post #63 of 220
so apple marketshare is a rounding error and insignificant...so insignificant that ms launched a national campaign specifically targeting apple. that campaign wasn't designed to directly recruit more windows users (remember, windows was never ever mentioned once in any laptop hunter ads). the ads were designed to make people stop and think about buying overpriced apple hardware during a recession. the same people ms counts as insignificant rounding errors i suppose.
post #64 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsMan View Post

WebKit is currently the minority browser on computers, however it is already dominant in smartphones; IE is heading towards being a rounding error in that domain.

http://www.cloudfour.com/448/webkit-...hone-platform/

True.

People seem to forget that the companies have different goals with their products also. Balmer seems a bit confused over the motivations when he says this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balmer

... the one thing thats unclear is whats the economic play for anybody else competing with us at the browser level. Is this all about kind of controlling the search box or is it about something else?
 ...

I know he's talking about Google Chrome here mostly, but to me this shows that Balmer doesn't understand the first thing about the motives of his competitors.

Apples goal for Safari for instance isn't about search and isn't even to gain browser share. The goal is to promote open standards. If FireFox or IE switched to WebKit, Safari's work would be done even if it still only had 4% of the market. Apple doesn't give a crap about whether or not Safari "bests" MSIE, that's just Balmer's fear. Even if MISIE just went with FireFox's engine and FireFox stayed the same, Safari still "wins" because all they want to do is make the web work on open standards.

Google has very similar goals although they obviously compete with MS on search. Balmer literally doesn't "get it" at all. For him it's all about competition and "dominance." For most of the other companies, that has nothing to do with it.
post #65 of 220
Mr. Ballmer, Vista is a rounding error, XP is not, but Vista is a rounding error.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
post #66 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by I. Pod MacNut View Post

Oh how I hope they maintain this attitude. Remember when Detroit automakers dismissed Toyota, Honda and Nissan?

Not a good analogy.

Toyota, Honda, and Nissan used to be much cheaper (just as Kia and Hyundai are today).
post #67 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by wigby View Post

so apple marketshare is a rounding error and insignificant...so insignificant that ms launched a national campaign specifically targeting apple. that campaign wasn't designed to directly recruit more windows users (remember, windows was never ever mentioned once in any laptop hunter ads). the ads were designed to make people stop and think about buying overpriced apple hardware during a recession. the same people ms counts as insignificant rounding errors i suppose.

Yes, and Apple ended up pulling off a record quarter and selling more Macs. In a recession, no less. Apple is in fact, thriving in these tough economic times. It's all about lasting value.

Chances are, if the average consumer has $1000+ to spend, a mac will be at the top of their list. This is what MS can't stand. They're confined to the low-end of the market. Doesn't do a whole lot for mindshare and desirability. MS is no longer (was it ever?) the Gold Standard.
post #68 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosqueda View Post

Back in the 50's and 60's people thought the Japanese built little junk cars and brushed them away as insignificant. We all know how that turned out. Of course, thankfully, American carmakers are making a comeback, but it's been decades.

Ballmer appears to have the arrogance of Henry Ford II, past GM Chairmen and other American industrialists. Of course Microsoft isn't sitting still, but they need to be a little more humble and recognize the growth and appreciate the serious competition they are facing.

Imagine if just one government agency switches to OSX, just one. Or maybe one large company. Then the dominos begin to fall.


Hondas and Toyotas are still cheaper than the big three cars. Mac's are twice as expensive as a PC with similar performance
post #69 of 220
If MS think they are winning back market share from Apple, why are they opening retail outlets near Apple Stores?, why are they paying higher salaries to recruit Apple Store staff?

Maybe, in a year or two, he will say sales at Apple Stores are 'rounding errors'.

In reality Balmer is very worried. They are now reliant on low margin netbooks, they haven't gained a good share of the online market (still way behind Google), failed merger attempt with Yahoo leading to a watered down strategic alliance, etc.

Also, with the sales of iPhones gaining ground fast, and new entrants such as Google Chrome, their mobile strategy looks rather frail.

Apple shares are trading much higher than they were a year ago, yet MS shares are lower. What does that say?

Phil
post #70 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmac7101 View Post

Ballmer's head is a rounding error.


Yea I was going to say "the only "rounding error" in this instance is Steve Ballmers head" but you beat me too it!

Great minds think alike.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #71 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

If MS think they are winning back market share from Apple, why are they opening retail outlets near Apple Stores?, why are they paying higher salaries to recruit Apple Store staff?

Phil

MS has lost control of the Premium end. Apple owns it. Those with $$ are choosing Apple.

The Stores are to build mindshare. Except that great proucts drive mindshare, not window-dressing.
post #72 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Yes, and Apple ended up pulling off a record quarter and selling more Macs. In a recession, no less. Apple is in fact, thriving in these tough economic times. It's all about lasting value.

Chances are, if the average consumer has $1000+ to spend, a mac will be at the top of their list. This is what MS can't stand. They're confined to the low-end of the market. Doesn't do a whole lot for mindshare and desirability. MS is no longer (was it ever?) the Gold Standard.

Totally agree. I know that my June 09 Macbook Pro will keep its value for many years to come, yet a Windows laptop will be almost worthless in 2 or 3 years.

At the end of he day, I don't care what Balmer says. I will only buy products if they offer what I want. MS products don't, Apple's do. Until that changes, I won't be changing my purchasing decisions.
post #73 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post

Totally agree. I know that my June 09 Macbook Pro will keep its value for many years to come, yet a Windows laptop will be almost worthless in 2 or 3 years.

At the end of he day, I don't care what Balmer says. I will only buy products if they offer what I want. MS products don't, Apple's do. Until that changes, I won't be changing my purchasing decisions.

Yes. There's really no "winning back" Apple users. There's just nothing out there that compares to the Apple ecosystem. No matter how MS tries, their business model isn't set up to provide the kind of experience Apple does. By default, they're fighting a losing battle.
post #74 of 220
Windows 7 is a rounding error! Current version is 6.1 (build 7600.16385.090713-1255)
post #75 of 220
"There is no hardcore CAD/CAM for the mac."

Try VectorWorks Machine Design.
post #76 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Of course, his apparent obsession with Apple is a major distraction. Apple isn't the immediate threat to Microsoft. Google is. His lack of ability to focus on real issues is a serious detriment to Microsoft.

Totally agree. Ballmer doesn't seem to have any idea where MS is headed and no clue how to get there. One day he proclaims that Yahoo is essential to MS's long term survival, the next day he says it isn't. One day MS goes Walmart with the laptop hunter ads (buy me I'm cheap!) then later Ballmer comes out and says he wants to bring MS upmarket by somehow pushing up MS's netbook OS prices.

Monopolies are treacherous things. They make you think that you're the world's greatest manager whose company is making great products and whose marketing department has its finger on the consumer's pulse. In reality, the only reason Microsoft made billions of dollars was because IBM gifted them with an OS monopoly which they then, through partly illegal means, parlayed into the Office Suite monopoly.

When you look at things a little more closely, Microsoft isn't really any good in writing software, developing products, or pitching them at the costumer. All it's non-monopoly products are either dead, dying, or perpetual billion-dollar money losers. Including Xbox. Any objective evaluator will conclude that OS-X is better than Windows. Heck, even their own Windows chief Jim Allchin said so in an embarrassing internal e-mail that was exposed during discovery. Then on top of the lousy product, it's promotions are invariably lame, like a geek who's trying too hard to be cool.

All of Microsoft's brass are people who think they've been hitting homeruns when in fact they were put on third base by IBM. That includes Bill Gates. If Microsoft truly wants to succeed, they need to replace Ballmer with a guy who has a proven track record of successfully developing and selling product in a non-monopoly setting. Somebody like, ummmm, Steve Jobs. But of course that will never happen because as far as MS is concerned, the fault lies with someone else somewhere.
post #77 of 220
You may be able to buy a crappy Windoze PeeCee today for 1/2 a Macbook, but that Macbook will still be happily used for 5 years. Meanwhile, you'll hate and replace your Windoze PeeCee 2 or 3 times over that same time frame. My 12" iBook G4 has gone strong for 5 years and only now, with Snow Leopard, is not upgradeable. I might wait for a tablet Mac to replace it - although, in many ways, my iPhone has already done that.
post #78 of 220
I find it interesting that Apple, for the most part, doesn't engage in name calling and bashing of MS. I can't recall SJ or PS or any execs going off like this. I don't believe the commercials count, because they are for the most part true.

What I like about Apple is that they keep their nose to the grindstone, make great products and let us, the happy consumers do the talking with our cash.

Ballmer is scared, period. MS's strategy was alway copy/kill, push vaporware to keep you from buying the latest and greatest and downtalk the competition. None of which work anymore. F MS.
post #79 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy View Post

I find it interesting that Apple, for the most part, doesn't engage in name calling and bashing of MS. I can't recall SJ or PS or any execs going off like this. I don't believe the commercials count, because they are for the most part true.

What I like about Apple is that they keep their nose to the grindstone, make great products and let us, the happy consumers do the talking with our cash.

Ballmer is scared, period. MS's strategy was alway copy/kill, push vaporware to keep you from buying the latest and greatest and downtalk the competition. None of which work anymore. F MS.

Oh dear, you've obviously missed some great Keynote presentations from Bertrand Serlet. He is just brilliant! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTfChHwGFf0

Nothing is liable, it's all true!!
post #80 of 220
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