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Mayor Giuliani named Time magazine's Person of the Year...

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Good!

Let's try to end this massively ****ed-up year on a POSITIVE note and recognize someone for the RIGHT reasons. The Mayor, by all accounts, really stepped up and acted like a true leader, unifying the city and becoming a symbol for all that is good and right about NYC...and America.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...all the pundits on TV (and I'm sure many of you here...) were rooting for bin Laden.



Maybe Osama was the most influential, important figure, but you know what? After careful analysis and consideration, I've come to the following conclusion:

**** him.

He's had his moment in the sun and his share of magazine covers. Why remind us? Why give the evil cretin any more glory and face-time?

I think it's great that Time chose the positive, "up" path and named Mayor Giuliani. I'm sure they'll catch hell from some quarters, but who cares. It'll be the usual sector of wrongheaded twits anyway, and they haven't been right about much so far, so...

It's just a magazine cover in the end, but still it's nice to see a positive, GOOD thing put to all this stuff at the end of the year.

Why give bin Laden any more fame or attention than he already has? The twisted little cocksucker has pretty much dominated our lives for over three months.

Go Rudy!
post #2 of 46
100% agreed. Time may say that their "person of the year" choice is supposed to be given to the most "significant" individiual, but the title has gradually become recognized as an honor. I hate for anything that even remotely looks like positive recognition to be given to Bin Laden.
post #3 of 46
Giuliani's efforts on and after September 11 were totally fantastic. It is impossible to imagine anyone performing the mayoral duties in the wake of the attacks better than he did. But before September 11, he consistently showed a very different quality. Isn't it a shame that it so often takes a disaster to bring out the best in people? He gets my support for "Man of the (Post Sept. 11th) year" award, if there was one.

I am relieved that bin Laden was denied having yet more fame and celebrity attached to his name.
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post #4 of 46
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:

<strong>But before September 11, he consistently showed a very different quality.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No he didn't. NYC was a disaster before he was elected. He completely turned that city around.
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post #5 of 46
I think the Editors of Time made the right choice. And maybe, just maybe they'll "get it" that part of being man of the year means doing something right / good to get the requisite attention in the first place. The whole argument that sometimes bad people deserve it because they (basically, grabbed the most headlines due to their despicable acts) is ludicrous. I don't care who gets the most headlines, only who has the most positive impact on the world at large or some part of it.

I hope the days of giving murderous or otherwise shameless cretins the cover of time just because they were the "most newsworthy" are over....

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
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post #6 of 46
Thread Starter 
Wow, I'm SHOCKED! Four responses and all of them favorable! Impressive.



Even from Samantha, who seems to be at the other end of the political/cultural spectrum from me. Although, she DID qualify it with a pre/post September 11 distinction.



Just kidding, Samantha. I honestly didn't have much of an opinion one way or the other about the Mayor prior to September 11. You're right...sometimes tragic events and circumstances make otherwise ordinary, lacklauster individuals rise to the occasion and shine in a way not previously seen.

He just needs to move to San Diego so I can vote for him to be MY major. I'm jealous of NYC.



There are several people here at AI (and you know who you are...) that I'm waiting to pop their heads up and post their, uh, "interesting" [read: dumbass] reasons why they don't agree. I can't wait, because it should be hilarious.



Give it a few more hours...they might be out shopping.

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #7 of 46
I am a foreigner (British), but I spent two years in New York City during Mayor Giuliani's time in office and I would like to say the following:

1) I did not agree with everything he stood for. He was a consumate politician and often went hunting for voter communities even if it meant he pissed off us liberals.
2) He DID make the city a heck of a lot safer than it previously was. I worked with a guy who had lived in New York his entire life. He had been shot back in the eighties during a mugging and was very clear about the fact that the city was fast falling into hell.
3) He was a DAMN GOOD mayor, despite his personal and political failings.
4) He deserves all the praise he gets for his actions on September 11th. He was the voice of a nation. He was the person that Bush should have been.

I don't necessarily like the man, but I respect him for how he pulled the city together that day. He was brave, selfless, level-headed and, most importantly of all, he was there for his people.

He deserves it.

Hewligan
post #8 of 46
[quote]Even from Samantha, who seems to be at the other end of the political/cultural spectrum from me<hr></blockquote>

Wandering off-topic here, but what are you saying there pscates? Most people who know me would describe me as a 'centrist', liberal in some issues and conservative on others... by global ideological/political standards. By US standards, I guess that means somewhere out on the far left? And if you think that I am on the far left, as suggested by your post, does that put you somewhere out on the far-right?

:confused:

and

[quote]He just needs to move to San Diego so I can vote for him to be MY major. I'm jealous of NYC<hr></blockquote>

He would be a great choice for SD Mayor, specially if he could use his political skills to organize some way of countering the ongoing invasion of the USA of illegal immigrants (mostly from Mexico) which is putting the entire infra- structure of S. California under enormous stress.

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #9 of 46
This was a no-brainer. Good for TIME to just go with the obvious choice -- sometimes you can out-think yourself. The idea is that it's supposed to be an honor to be named "Person of the Year." You could say on this count, UBL is the anti-Person of the Year.

Despite the general consensus that Giuliani is not the most personable person, and he basically did turn NYC into a police state (though it worked dagnabbit), he was simply an incredibly positive force and hero this past year. There are lots of otherwise disagreeable people in history who have done great things for humanity.

And it beats Jeff Bezos!
post #10 of 46
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>Giuliani's efforts on and after September 11 were totally fantastic. It is impossible to imagine anyone performing the mayoral duties in the wake of the attacks better than he did. But before September 11, he consistently showed a very different quality. Isn't it a shame that it so often takes a disaster to bring out the best in people? He gets my support for "Man of the (Post Sept. 11th) year" award, if there was one.

I am relieved that bin Laden was denied having yet more fame and celebrity attached to his name.</strong><hr></blockquote>

uh no. it took a disaster for people to realize how good he really is.

he's been the best mayor NYC ever had for 8 straight years.

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>
post #11 of 46
5 bucks says Guilianni runs again in 4 years
post #12 of 46
Damn fine choice. Giuliani has deserved the honor for several years now.
post #13 of 46
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Samantha Joanne Ollendale:
<strong>Wandering off-topic here, but what are you saying there pscates? Most people who know me would describe me as a 'centrist', liberal in some issues and conservative on others... by global ideological/political standards. By US standards, I guess that means somewhere out on the far left? And if you think that I am on the far left, as suggested by your post, does that put you somewhere out on the far-right?[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, not at all, Samantha. I've just read most of your posts in other threads and noticed that they differ from my posts or views.

No big deal. Not assigning labels or anything like that. Just honestly can't recall seeing a post of yours where I've said "hey, that's what I think too!". But then, I probably haven't read every single one either, so...

That's all.



I don't think I'm "far right" at all. The whackos and wingnuts on BOTH ends of the spectrum bug me to no end. But I'm definitely quite conservative and traditional-minded and lean a bit "to the right" on nearly every fiscal, legal, cultural, etc. issue I can think of.

As far as the border thing, thank you! I've only been saying it for years. I wish someone would do something because it is a terrible burden.

I have no problem with legal immigration.

It's the fence-climbers, river-waders, law-dodging immigration that I - and many others - tend to have trouble with.

Do it right, do it by the book, come here to make a good life for yourself and your family. That's the American way and I would never oppose that. But you also pay taxes and live by the rules we all do.

BTW, watching Laura Bush on Tim Russert. She's quite an attractive woman. Never really noticed 'til just now. Hmm.

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #14 of 46
Too bad he didn't get this recognition before Sept 11. When he took a no bullsh!t approach to administration and cleaned up the mess New York was fast becoming. I don't live in New York, but I've visited it regularly -- at least once or twice a year to see family -- for the last ten years, and I think this has made the changes all the more dramatic to my eyes. From someone on the outside looking in, I can safely say that New York now seems nearly as safe and clean as Toronto. Toronto is very safe, but it's only half the size and it started out impeccably clean. Giuliani inherited a mess about twice the size and brought it up to a comparable standard. As far as New York is concerned, he's been man of the year for at least 6 of the last 8 years.

Other mayors would do well to learn from his tenure. Don't take any BVLLSHIT from anyone. The appropriate reaction to vagrancy, prostitution, drug dealing, pan handling, sqeegees, graphitti, gangs, and all their ilk is NOT some wishy washy "we understand your issues" crap. It is not to let RACE relations and politics hinder civic initiatives. It is to take the offenders, even minor ones, and take them down hard! Law and Order first, healing and helping second. It is quite impossible to do it any other way. Well done mayor Giuliani!
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post #15 of 46
pscates, I'm starting to think that you find every dark-haired woman attractive!
post #16 of 46
Thread Starter 
I think I do...

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #17 of 46
I was hoping that it would either be him, Todd Beamer and crew, or the NYPD/FDNY for the Man of the Year award.

I'm relieved that Bin Laden did not get the Man of the Year recognition. Giving that sort of publicity to a man responsible for so many deaths is irresponsible and would have been in horrible taste by Time. I'm sure that's why they did not give him the award.
post #18 of 46
I just came back from NYC on Friday. It was soooo strange not to see them two great towers from the bridge into Brooklyn...

I went to the memorial wall by the church at ground zero. It was hard to take...all those cards, signatures, feelings and reactions.

Then off to Times Square and Rockefeller Center. Wow. the city really hasn't changed. In fact I felt a sense of pride and resiliency I've never felt there before.

All in all, it was a great day. Took tons of photos and just soaked in the whole experience. I love you New York City...

Oh, and yeah, it's great Giuliani got the cover. he deserves it. And the photo should have the FDNY, NYPD, PAP, EMT and his administration workers behind him. They and the people of NYC proved to the world that we all can get up, dust off and get back on with our lives.
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post #19 of 46
I agree with all of the above, I'm just not feeling too articulate tonight to add anything very meaningful. good man, good choice.
post #20 of 46
I think it was the right choice. There are things that Giuliani has done in New York that I have not agreed with (Brooklyn Museum, crackdown on Jaywalking, etc.) but I can't argue with the results. When I lived in New York in the 80's it was nothing less than a cesspool. Even the upper east side was filthy and dangerous. When I finally went back to visit 4 years ago after not having lived there for 7 years, I could not believe the difference. And no one, NO ONE, that has been mayor in the past 20 years in that city, nor either of the candidates from the election in November. I may not agree with the man on a lot of his politics, but my hat is off to him for his achievement, and off to Time for taking the high road and recognising it.
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post #21 of 46
[quote](Brooklyn Museum, crackdown on Jaywalking, etc.)<hr></blockquote>

so you support public funding of art that makes a mockery of religion and people who break the law and cause gridlock and risk their safety and the safety of others?
post #22 of 46
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>so you support public funding of art that makes a mockery of religion</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, I do. And more of it. There is nothing sacred in artistic interpretation.

[quote]<strong>and people who break the law and cause gridlock and risk their safety and the safety of others?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, I agree with that.
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post #23 of 46
Thread Starter 
Yeah, but how come I have to pay for it?

How come the "tolerance and acceptance" gig only swings one way?

I have to "tolerate and accept" (and help fund) things I might not like or agree with, JUST because it's "art"?

**** that. My life isn't being enriched by some of this crap.

No one ever asks some freak artist to appreciate and "tolerate" the public not to be offended or annoyed and keep his piss-filled jars and poo-smeared canvases to himself.



You wanna paint? You wanna sculpt? Great! Paint and sculpt your ass off. But don't get your smock in a wad if I don't wanna help pay for it or view it.

You can get a goddamn job like the rest of us have to do and you can paint and sculpt in the evenings and weekends, like I have to do.

And if you're SO artistically bent that doing so is out of the question, then kill yourself already and be done with it.

I'd like to sit around in a loft all day and not wash my hair and contemplate the nature of man and the existence of God and then fling some oil on a canvas at 2 in the afternoon, but I have bills to pay.

****ing artists...

post #24 of 46
Thread Starter 
The preceding was brought to you by the practical, mainstream Paul...who's in a "practical, mainstream" mood at the moment.

post #25 of 46
I feel like I'm going on a limb with all the positive vibes in this thread, but what the heck.

Sure, Giuliani did all the right things in the wake of 9-11. But what exactly did he do that any other Mayor wouldn't have done in the same position?

I've thought the same about Bush. Sure, he's done a great job, but doing a great job in politics to me seems less impressive when all the choices you have to make are pretty much black and white.

In terms of approval ratings, anyone in their positions who isn't a complete moron or jerk should see a big increase in the wake of this kind of crisis.

I would have given the award to the passengers and crew of
Flight '93.

Jeff

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: jeffyboy ]</p>
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post #26 of 46
Of course you realize, scates, that the only reason they do that stuff is to piss you off, right? It's a catch 22: the more you moan, the more there is.

I'm obviously all for creative license in pretty much any form. I have a really hard time trying to censor material, but it's my opinion that our post-Victorian conservatism feeds the more, uh, obnoxious expressions in a kind of endless cycle. That said, I feel like the quiet, new, perhaps unspoken and focused new mission of the NEA to be towards community-oriented art is a very responsible and intelligent approach to making it really matter to people -- it might make more of a difference to Americans. But remember how provactive Michelangelo was in the day!

Link:

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/24/arts/24NEA.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/24/arts/24NEA.html</a>
post #27 of 46
Thread Starter 
Maybe so. Still doesn't mean I have to look at it or dig it.



I've got better things to do and bigger things to worry about than some artist trying to be controversial or provocative.

I'm not one of these people who goes out of their way to get offended, either. Let me make that clear. I don't show up in places where I might see or hear something I don't like then throw a fit and bitch and moan.

So I'm not about censorship either. Never have been. But I'm not nuts about the public, "anything goes" funding of every twisted, attention-starved crackpot with a paintbrush and a need to rock the boat.

Let them be controversial and provocative on their own dime.

post #28 of 46
Ya, Giuliani deserved it! I am glad that Time chose a positive role model for man of the year. But I do have one question, what exactly was the fantastic thing that Giuliani did? I mean sure he did hold the city and in some respects the nation together, but is that anything that any other mayor wouldnt do? And to my knowledge I didnt hear him give any great speeches, but I don't live in New York and it could be that I just didnt hear them. I give him brownie points for staying with the people of New York (and America) while our President was hiding under a rock somewhere in the midwest. I just hope he doesnt run for President in the future because this event has kinda immortalized him and I can foresee him crushing a future democratic opponent. So I say he should get to be man of the year and then like pscates said, he should be mayor of San Diego and NEVER RUN FOR PRESIDENT!
post #29 of 46
I don't want to fund the "poop" art either.


What if some KKK member wanted to make MLK out of shit? Or paint him nude in one of his rumored womanizing exploits? Would you pay for that? Come on it's "art"! How about "art" that glorifies the terrorist attacks. It's "art"! Who are you do judge! Fascist!
post #30 of 46
Thread Starter 
Ohmigod, talk about people losing their minds!

THAT'S when you'd clearly see how much of a bullshit, one-way street it really is.

Mock Jesus Christ, mock apple pie, mock anything remotely seen as old-fashioned or "square".

You're automatically "cutting edge" and controversial and "pushing the boudaries" and blah, blah, blah...

But do the same for certain OTHER icons or ideals?

Oh man...hang on to your nuts.

To many people (FAR too many people), "tolerance" and "free speech" only flow one way ("I'll 'tolerate' it as long as I agree with it...") and as soon as THEY hear or see something THEY aren't happy about, all notions of that stuff IMMEDIATELY go out the window and out come the picket signs, boycotts, name-calling and so forth.

See it everyday.



[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #31 of 46
I find my self saying this again and again in response to Pscates' posts: AMEN! PREACH ON BROTHER!
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post #32 of 46
Like I said, these "artistes" do stuff like this only to piss you off.

I hate it when people can't stand another point of view -- really invalidates their position if you can't tolerate contrary ones. These artists consider themselves liberals I guess but don't hold the first amendment up to everyone, do they? I'm not about to fall into the same trap. Go ahead and abuse that right a bit, it is your right. But the less attention they get for this stuff, the less they'll find reason to do it.

Art doesn't have to be pretty, but I'd like it to be more, uh, contemplative.
post #33 of 46
Honestly, the whole "Art" thread here should be it's own thread...But the only reason those specific art/artists were spotlighted was because of the media...the media.

There were many other artists at these certain exhibits with less "contriversial" work that were trampled over by the news media...idiots that they are...and that's where you saw the "shock art", on TV right?

Start a thread on this somewhere else...still think Rudi was the only mayor in this country that could have gotten NYC through this...who else?
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post #34 of 46
[quote]Originally posted by solo:
<strong>Ya, Giuliani deserved it! I am glad that Time chose a positive role model for man of the year. But I do have one question, what exactly was the fantastic thing that Giuliani did? I mean sure he did hold the city and in some respects the nation together, but is that anything that any other mayor wouldnt do? And to my knowledge I didnt hear him give any great speeches, but I don't live in New York and it could be that I just didnt hear them. I give him brownie points for staying with the people of New York (and America) while our President was hiding under a rock somewhere in the midwest. I just hope he doesnt run for President in the future because this event has kinda immortalized him and I can foresee him crushing a future democratic opponent. So I say he should get to be man of the year and then like pscates said, he should be mayor of San Diego and NEVER RUN FOR PRESIDENT!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I guess you had to be there (here) to know how great Guiliani was. Yea, you can say other mayors would have done the same thing. who cares. he did it. he did it great. it's foolish to use the arguement that he did something other people would have done.


as for the art,
if we are not allowed to pray or teach religion in public school we should not have to publicly fund art that mocks our religion. simple as that.

BTW, how sad is it when a public school right near the WTC site refuses to say the pledge of allegience in the morning and has the support of most of the parents.

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>
post #35 of 46
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>BTW, how sad is it when a public school right near the WTC site refuses to say the pledge of allegience in the morning and has the support of most of the parents.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sounds about right
post #36 of 46
Giuliani did deserve person of the year, more so than than POS Bin Laden. As for mayor of the year, he gets it hands down. As for art, why do we still consider pictures of naked girls art. WTF??? some art is sh*t. Don't ask me why it is protected by the U.S. goverment. Oy.
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post #37 of 46
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:

<strong>To many people (FAR too many people), "tolerance" and "free speech" only flow one way ("I'll 'tolerate' it as long as I agree with it...") and as soon as THEY hear or see something THEY aren't happy about, all notions of that stuff IMMEDIATELY go out the window and out come the picket signs, boycotts, name-calling and so forth.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh what the hell. I'll jump in.

<a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/generated/hubs/20011222/theartsArt.html" target="_blank">Semen and flickering lights - yes, it's art</a>

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
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post #38 of 46
Me too...



Though not publicly funded it's still to me the most offensive artwork on Earth...

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Artman @_@ ]</p>
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post #39 of 46
Thread Starter 
Artman, I can't see it. The link is broken or something because it's just a red "X" in the box.

Try again or give a verbal description.

Let me guess: Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel ceiling?
post #40 of 46
Thread Starter 
Okay, I see it now. It's a house by a river.

OHMIGOD!!!

How DISGUSTING! What kind of depraved, sociopath does it take to paint something so tasteless and offensive?!?!

The world IS going to hell in a handbasket and it's because of tawdry landscapes and low-rent, trashy paintings of houses like the one above!!!



Why can't that guy just paint with camel shit and his own semen like any other respectable artist? But nooooo...he has to go and make a "statement" and be all gross and weird, painting a goddamn house...beside a CREEK!



Where will it end?
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