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Street Gangs and Terrorism?

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
Every morning when I read the LA Times, I see yet another drive-by shooting, or some innocent killed in the crossfire, and so many more go unreported. Reading the FBI stats, in the last 20 years, about 11,000 (!!!!!!!!) people have been killed as a result of gang violence in LA County alone. Thats the equivalent of a WTC death toll every 4 years, and in *one county alone*. There are areas (in LA) where I feel most uneasy to even drive through in a car, let alone walk somewhere. This is a sad and insane state of affairs; why is this so acceptable and remain so?

This may sound harsh to some, but should the streetgangs (Bloods, Crips, 18th Street, etc etc etc) should be classified as terrorist organizations and be gone after with the same zeal as any other, including military tribunals? I don't care what color, white, black, or brown etc. or nationality these people are, lest anyone think this is a racist attitude. These maniacs are targeting and killing Americans everyday and just because the killings happen on a one-by-one basis, as opposed to dozens at a time, that to me is not an excuse or 'mitigating circumstance'. We seem to be turning a blind eye, or not bothered. These organizations fit into the FBI definition or 'terrorist', except perhaps the political motive, or can that be disregarded?

Any thoughts on this? Should they be included as terrorist organizations? And if not, why not?

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: Samantha Joanne Ollendale ]</p>
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #2 of 31
Yes, they only make the world a worse place to live. They terrorize thousands of people.
post #3 of 31
Gangs, hackers, they're all terrorists.
post #4 of 31
Yes, Samantha, I think they should.

Serve no purpose, contribute nothing to society, wreak havoc on neighborhoods, bring only violence and drugs to the community, keep decent, law-abiding citizens living in fear, etc.

The reason WHY nothing hardcore is done probably go beyond my grasp, but I suspect politics, race and all that crap play a huge part in it.

Although it shouldn't.

If I were president (or even mayor), I'd be the biggest hard-ass on gangs and their activities. I'd make it to where any gang member with half a brain would give up the lifestyle just because it's too much of a hassle under my administration. The ones stupid enough to stay in would be dealt with in the most severe manner allowable.

I'd break the cowardly punks up, kicking half of them to the joint, kicking the rest to boot camp and implementing programs in the schools that this kind of life is NOT something to aspire to or to glorify.

But the sad reality is that if you really started coming down and cleaning up the problem, certain civic leaders of particular races or ethnicities would get their panties in a knot and start bitching about "racist tactics" and so forth.

And in today's political climate where a tacky joke can get you thrown into sensitivity training or labelled a "hater", I suspect most politicians and law enforcement higher-ups don't want to even LOOK like they might be going after certain groups...EVEN THOUGH those "certain groups" constitute the vast majority of the gang population.

Point me out an area where white kids constitute a significant and terrorizing gang presence in L.A. or Orange County and I'll eat a brick with a knife and fork.



A REAL leader does the right thing and goes after the problem in a real and meaningful, results-oriented way and says a polite "**** you" to polls and special interest groups and other handwringers who serve only to gum up the works.

If you're NOT gangbanging, then what are you worried about? Wouldn't you - if you lived in a gang infested neighborhood where going outside to get you mail or walk your dog was a daily exercise in putting your safety at risk - LOVE to see these stupid vicious thugs come down hard on and dealt with?

Yes you would...and you wouldn't give a good goddamn WHAT color they are.
post #5 of 31
To some extent all crime "terrorizes" people. But the point is crime not terror. Let's just call things by what they are. Gangsters are gangsters and terrorist are terrorist.
post #6 of 31
Under the changed laws post 9/11/01, I wonder how close to the actual provisions that gangs come to the definition of "domestic terrorist". I am sure that in some cases they definitely break the law in the conspiricy area and also in the investment of illegal funds transfers as well as illegal arms sales. It doesn't stop the problem, but does allow local prosecutors to pass cases up the ladder for federal prosecution which offer heavier sentences. I beleive that it should widen the spectrum of chargeable crimes under federal provisions rather than just certain drug transactions and money laundering laws.
It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
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It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
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post #7 of 31
I'm shocked-a great idea from someone who supports a cop-killer! Yes, gangs are terrorists, and I think they should be exterminated on the spot. If you belong to a known gang, you die. Very simple. It will also never happen because the United Saps of America doesn't have the spine to do so. We are already falling back into our goody goody mode in dealing with Arabs who come into this country illegally. We are actually asking permission to talk with the thousands of arabs who entered this country before we could adequately screen them. It should be MANDATORY. You come in and talk with the FBI or we boot your ass out of this country. We are such fools............................................. .....
post #8 of 31
If you want to stop Gangs you have to fix the issues that make Gangs a "safe" way of life. Yes I said safe. Many Gang members choose to join for protection...sure you can get shot but hell you can get shot being a loner..might as well have some backup. You want to stop gangs..the silver bullet is called "Opportunity". We can't let someone grow up in Hell and expect them to act like Angels. Gang warfare is no different than Gov mandated warfare...exterminate your enemies. The issues has been around for years yet we DO turn a Blind Eye to it and it's shocking when you add the numbers up. Don't blame the Police too much...they are doing what they can and they are only human....and have their fears. I've known Gang members and mostly their confused or angry people that react in very violent ways...should they be taken out of society..yes..but you can reach out to young people before they get like this.


[quote]Point me out an area where white kids constitute a significant and terrorizing gang presence in L.A. or Orange County and I'll eat a brick with a knife and fork.<hr></blockquote>

So you're saying LA or OC has NO Skinheads?
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post #9 of 31
Uhhh...no.

I am saying that they don't seem to pose the overall threat, however, that black and Hispanic gangs do.

In the eight or so years of living here, I've never been in a Burger King and have a bunch of idiot skinhead types come in and pretty much make everyone want to leave.

I've never seen skinheads hanging out in front of the 7-11s near me and my neighborhood.

I can't tell you the last time a local newscast opened with story about a gun battle or beating or assault committed by - OR involving - skinheads.

Yes, I'm sure they exist.

But ask anyone here in SoCal if THAT'S who they're in fear of or if THAT'S who they consider the major threat to peace and safety.

Read my post. I said "significant".

I drive home through a neighborhood in Oceanside that I wouldn't get out of my car for $500 after sundown. And there isn't one goddamn "skinhead" in the bunch.

It's young, scowling Hispanic males with shaved heads, wifebeater T-shirts and tattoos on the back of their necks.

Or, about two miles further down the street, hard-looking brothers decked out with the latest "G" paraphanelia and loitering in front of stores, bus stops, street corners, etc.

I've never even seen a ****ing skinhead, now that I think about it.

post #10 of 31
Pscates- yeah I'm not suprised. SoCal has alot more diversity than WA. Here your're just not going to see enough "ruffnecks" ...they're here but not in large numbers. It's gonna take alot of work....you guys better start looking for one kick ass Mayor/Gov or Police Chief.
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post #11 of 31
Is there a big skinhead movement/problem up where you live? What's it like? Many pockets or groups, or one large overall organization?

Lots of crime and acts of violence attributed to them? Do they commit crimes outside the expected race-based variety? Or are they pretty much only a threat to minorities or certain other groups?

In other words, do they rob and assault and mess with other white people too?

I saw a documentary on skinheads one time and it chilled me to the bone. These were ultra-whacky white supremists and nutballs and listening to them talk and spouting their bullcrap was both terrifying and maddening.

Honestly, you just don't hear about them much here...at least compared to the others.

But I'm sure they DO exist, of course. But like I said, they aren't seen by law enforcement and the public as the main culprit or source of the trouble.

They're relegated to "secondary troublemakers".

post #12 of 31
lol, funny thing is the only gangs i've ever had trouble with were white gangs. in MN, there are really only asian and white gangs. not enough black kids to make a decent gang. i was hanging out with a friend who was asian and these stupid skin heads wanted to start something. lucky for me he was a state champion in martial arts, and i had my mag light in the car handy.

lol, the idiots started walking up 'till they realized we weren't about to back down, then said we were lucky they were busy, and drove off. bunch of pussies.
post #13 of 31
They usually are, aren't they?

Anybody can be a bad-ass with seven like-minded friends around them. But most of these people are outright cowards, who if you got them alone, would probably back down quicker than they'd ever want to admit.

Nothing worse than a coward. Gonna act like a bad-ass, then BE a bad-ass.

Otherwise, don't go crying when I ram my foot calf-deep up your ass or am trying to get a better grip on your larynx with the hand that's not pulling your ear off .



[ 12-25-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #14 of 31
Thread Starter 
[quote]I'm shocked-a great idea from someone who supports a cop-killer!<hr></blockquote>

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #15 of 31
Yeah, I didn't get that reference either <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #16 of 31
Maybe Steve666 was referring to ac2c's comments directly above where he wrote that.

He might not be referring to your intial post, Samantha.

Maybe ac2c and Steve 666 have a history or a beef?
post #17 of 31
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm shocked-a great idea from someone who supports a cop-killer!
----------------------
?
--------------------------------------------------


Aren't you the one who supports that Mummia asshole who shot a cop. Thats what I was referring to. If I got you mixed up with someone else I apologize......................................... .......
post #18 of 31
Thread Starter 
[quote]ren't you the one who supports that Mummia asshole who shot a cop. Thats what I was referring to. If I got you mixed up with someone else I apologize......................................... .......<hr></blockquote>

Oh dear. Sigh. etc. No Steve, just because I posted a list of legal improprieties which cropped up before and during Abu Jamal's trial, does this make me a "cop-killer supporter"? That is as absurd and ridiculous as my stating that you are a "supporter of kangaroo trials". Where in my post did I imply that he was innocent? Nowhere. Where did I start ranting and raving "Free Jamal Now"? Nowhere. I was merely pointing out the irregularities surrounding the case, or is that taboo to your sensibilities?

When legal precedure is compromised then someone is always going to jump on it; it is disrespectful to the memory of the victim, the victim's family, the perceived integrity of both the police and the justice system itself, and dare I say it, it's not fair on the accused either. Then there is further public expense, with new trials, re-sentencing, re-opening cases etc etc. The family of the victim ends up having to relive the whole thing day after day. If his trial had been conducted according to the book and he had subsequently been found guilty, then he would have received his death sentence and would have had little or no grounds to contest the verdict.

There is never any excuse for suched flawed trashy trials, specially in capital cases knowing the obvious controversy that is likely to result. And no, just pointing out these inconvenient little details does NOT make me a 'cop-killer supporter'. It is sad that you can come to such an unrealistic, simplistic, black and white conclusion.

Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #19 of 31
See, it wasn't me.
It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
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It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
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post #20 of 31
SJO----excellent rebuttal.

Steve666- Please refrain from showing your ignorance...you have effectively "opened your mouth and removed all doubt"

Pscates- Washington has many Skinhead factions in the area between Oregon and Olympia and then up north by the Canadian Border, but to be honest once you leave the Metro Seattle area you don't see much diversity so who would they fight against naturally. I would much rather put up with these guys than the deeper ingrained Gang Members that California has had for Decades. I agree with you though...most are Cowards.
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post #21 of 31
&gt;When legal precedure is compromised then someone is always going to jump on it; it is disrespectful to the memory of the victim, the victim's family, the perceived integrity of both the police and the justice system itself, and dare I say it, it's not fair on the accused either. Then there is further public expense, with new trials, re-sentencing, re-opening cases etc etc. The family of the victim ends up having to relive the whole thing day after day. If his trial had been conducted according to the book and he had subsequently been found guilty, then he would have received his death sentence and would have had little or no grounds to contest the verdict.&lt;

The only reason for they retrying, resentencing, etc. is because of all you ultra-liberal fools who need to grab onto something to make your life worthwhile. The trial had some flaws but he's still guilty, OK? Let him rot and go on with your lives. Going through all this crap to support a cop killer is what is disrespectful to the victim's family. You can see the pain in their eyes every time there is a public rally in support of this maggot. Find another outlet for your compassion........................................ ..........
post #22 of 31
hmurchison:
SJO----excellent rebuttal.
Steve666- Please refrain from showing your ignorance...you have effectively "opened your mouth and removed all doubt"

I have yet to see a post from you that is anything but a rebuttal of another reply. You are, indeed, one of the most worthless people in the forums. Find an original thought in your head if you have one. I tend to doubt that you do................................
post #23 of 31
I am pretty sure the gangs down in Baltimore and DC have more firepower than the Iraq army. Baltimore is being slowly cleaned up, but DC is a major sh*thole as for as crime.
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post #24 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by jhtrih:
<strong>I am pretty sure the gangs down in Baltimore and DC have more firepower than the Iraq army. Baltimore is being slowly cleaned up, but DC is a major sh*thole as for as crime.</strong><hr></blockquote>


dc- its all about staying in the correct areas.

baltimore, well... nowhere is safe.
post #25 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by steve666:
<strong>You are, indeed, one of the most worthless people in the forums</strong><hr></blockquote>

Personally attacks are not tolerated on the AppleInsider forums.
post #26 of 31
[quote] I have yet to see a post from you that is anything but a rebuttal of another reply. You are, indeed, one of the most worthless people in the forums. Find an original thought in your head if you have one. I tend to doubt that you do................................ <hr></blockquote>

I find it VERY heartening that you find me "worthless" and my post lacking of substance. They say "Great Minds think alike" and I am relieved that you and I differ.

Why reinvent the wheel...I'm not on these boards to provide "original" thought unless I feel that my thoughts actually bring something to the table. I don't launch into tirades and accuse someone of being Cop Killers or Commies(you guys sound like Joseph McCarthy with your rants).

Why don't we simply call it like we see it. Both you and Scott H have seriously devoid skills in reading comprehension. That's all one can surmise by your responses to SJO's query on why so many inconsistencies and obvious breaches of Due Process. Methinks you to should go back and reread just how important Due Process really is.
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post #27 of 31
I would look seriously at the inconsistancies of the trial if he would just declare his innocense. He doesn't and it speaks more than a million trials.
post #28 of 31
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>I would look seriously at the inconsistancies of the trial if he would just declare his innocense. He doesn't and it speaks more than a million trials.</strong>[/QUOTE

Is is not inconceivable a thought that an Innocent Man would refuse to to plead his innocence. Part of the Street Credo you see is a certain machismo. Some mobsters refuse to run from the Police, begging for your life to some makes you a "Mark". Some things to think about.
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post #29 of 31
Then he's incredibly stupid. But I don't buy that. I think he is a devout muslim that refuses to lie because it goes against his beliefs. Therefore he can't say he didn't do it because HE DID IT. No offence to people who think he was treated unfairly and deserves another trial.
post #30 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>Then he's incredibly stupid. But I don't buy that. I think he is a devout muslim that refuses to lie because it goes against his beliefs. Therefore he can't say he didn't do it because HE DID IT. No offence to people who think he was treated unfairly and deserves another trial.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I understand your point. It's interesting to say the least. I don't think anyone would naturally be offended by your differing opinion..I just think some people have taken the "Cop Killer" thing a little too far. Dare I say "Play the Cop Killer Card"
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post #31 of 31
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by steve666:
You are, indeed, one of the most worthless people in the forums
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally attacks are not tolerated on the AppleInsider forums.


Interesting how you didn't say anything after he called me ignorant. Double standard?......................................... ......
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