iTunes sync spat between Palm, Apple continues - Page 2

what if it's your drunken neighbour who missed his driveway?

i think the UN would involve the human rights commission right away...

i don't think that's likely the case, as you can sync with your itunes library if you use the xml file for your own software.

sounds klingon to me...

i think that would also prevent all old ipods from working with itunes.

Apple doesn't make money from selling content, Apple's profit comes from it's hardware sales. Apple develops software and sells digital content only to make their hardware more attractive to consumers, that's been their business model for a long time. Most profits made from software or digital content revenue is, for the most part, spent on keeping that infrastructure going.

Why would Apple open up their iTunes store to other hardware devices?? There's no (or very little) profit in it for them! But then they would be responsible to support other hardware manufacturer's devices!!

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...e_implies.html

Actually, if we have to believe the numbers from the various media outlets, sales of the Palm Pre are anemic at best. As an investor, I would call that a failure.

You must have a better class of burglar where you're from. Someone breaks into your house, you catch him in the act, and invite him to sit and have a cup of tea with you. After sharing family pictures, you work out a barter that is equitable for both parties. Here in America, catching a burglar in the act will most likely make you dead, and your family raped and killed. Where I live, you do not stop to ask if the burglar will be satisfied with just taking the Macbook, you best blow the mother fu**er into the next dimension while you still can.

For the record, I believe Palm means Apple and its family of customers no good and should be permanently put out of our misery.

I'm not sure the USB-IF needs to do anything but declare Palm to be in violation of their agreement.

That might be enough to prevent the Pre from being advertised as supporting USB. A recall and destruction of product packaging and advertising literature that declares the Pre as supporting USB might also be necessary. If Palm continued to advertise the Pre as having USB, a charge of false advertising might be brought against the company, which is where Apple could get involved directly or maybe even indirectly (and quietly) by funding legal action by the USB-IF.

Depending on the terms of the USB agreement, a flagrant violation might even prevent Palm's advertising any device they manufacture as being USB.

My vivid imagination suggests the USB agreement might further prevent component manufacturers from selling "USB" components to any manufacturer that is deemed to be in violation of the agreement. Hopefully for Palm's sake, they've figured these things out, though.

No ... Republican.

I heard a talk radio show host describe how, if he'd captured a burglar at gunpoint, he'd force him to sit on the floor and he'd watch him cry and plead and maybe pee himself--and then he'd shoot him. I'm not saying that applies to you, Mac Voyer, but it said a lot about the radio host, and it IS another way of saying what you said, without maybe the intervening cruelty.

Once we're past the point we agree on--the use of force to protect yourself and your family--Is your purpose to prevent someone from stealing your Mac, and to hold him until the police get there? Is it to summarily convict and execute? What if it's the teenager from next door? A drunk? A drunk who's gone to the wrong house? Or just a stupid young punk? Where do you draw the line? And how do you live with the lines you draw? Having someone break in is gonna get the testosterone flowing in all of us, no doubt. But the decisions you make now about what you'd do, might be the ones you make without further thought in the actual event. We don't care if the burglar ends up in jail; but we don't need to lose a forum buddy for making a decision he comes to regret. I'm just sayin'...

I dont see why you guys are being such a** holes, especially apple! dont get me wrong i love apple currently have a imac g4 24 inch (intel based),I 16gig iphone 3G, mac mini and a hackintosh. I dont see why apple wont let the palm pre sync with them if its not even harmful to them in any way. They (apple) should be encouraging to be able to sync with other 3rd party devices, it would only expand itunes in such a great way. I have a palm pre also and its actually a great phone especially the service unlike my 3G that cuts off in downtown dallas TX. I should have the right to choose what music program i want to use with any device not just ipods Etc. Apple needs to get its ego out of the way and grow up for a second. seriously. There company can only grow oh so much before it has to finally expand its horizons. and for this reason is why they suck.

Well America is a bit more barbaric than other countries, but I think you are just being way over the top with the exaggerations here, (and just to win a petty argument with a stranger!).

For the record, I live in a drug and crime-infested area on the "bad side" of town and have lived here all my life except for when I was a kid in which case I lived in a worse area in an adjacent town. On the other hand it is Canada, so the specific volume of crime is about one tenth that of the USA. Guns are rarer here but all the serious gangs carry them and shoot each other up on a regular basis. Again, no one can match the sheer volume of weapons available to criminals in the USA, but people are pretty much the same everywhere in my experience.

Most burglars take the time to figure out when you aren't going to be home before they break in. Even in the USA, most burglars are also not killers, and most will run away when confronted, but actually confronting a burglar in your home is a really, really dumb thing to do. The oft-quoted standard movie situation where one wakes up in the middle of the night and hears someone "in the house" is exceedingly rare but even when confronted with that situation, the smart thing to do is reach for the phone, not a gun.

My point was that responding to someone stealing from you, by purposely blowing them away just so you can feel like a man, is cowardly, stupid and "over-the-top" reaction-wise.

The motivations of the average burglar are related to either poverty or drug addiction. Either way, that makes the burglar more moral than you, who apparently wants the pleasure of murdering someone simply because they "took your stuff."

Stuff is stuff. You can always get more (or similar), you can't take it with you anyway, and it's all ultimately worthless.
A life on the other hand is irreplaceable and short enough to begin with.

I am with you I can't imagine not protecting loved ones and my household.

The REAL world is not as nice as people think.

iPhone sales were pretty anemic too until it went global. Let's wait until the Pre is on sale in Europe and Asia before we judge it and WebOS in general. Not that I have much confidence in Palm's ability to sell outside of North America...

I don't believe it is over reacting. When it boils down to it, The REAL world is not exactly playing nice and does not always play by the rules. When someone has broken into my home I am not about to ask him to leave. I will TELL him to leave and I will have a baseball bat or a gun at my side for the ready.

Gazoobee, i'm on YOUR side of this OT tangent, but if i woke up in my house and heard a burglar, and if i had a gun, I'd reach for the gun and my iPhone* in that order. If the burglar got to me before the police responded, and if I felt i needed to to protect myself or my family, I'd shoot in self defense. I don't think any of us can know exactly how we'd feel in such situations, but i think i'd feel some regret, and that my moral code would then enable me to cope with that fairly easily.

It wouldn't allow me to cope with shooting someone i'd apprehended and was holding at gunpoint waiting for the police. I'd have no eagerness to shoot; sadly i sometimes sense that in others. It's almost as though they're hoping for it, so they can achieve some kind of ill-thought-out rite of passage.

There's no doubt we're influenced by books and movies and our nation's history (I'm also in U.S.) and that sometimes we resort to behavior we admired in the abstract on the part of Charles Bronson and the Dirty Harry movies et al. We're better off if we think that through a little more...

I have no problem at all with your point of view (other than the username "masstrkiller"--I'm hoping you're a gamer! ).

For the record, I've been on the barrel-end of a handgun before. NOT as a burglar, but as a carjack victim. I was at gunpoint for maybe 15 minutes before a policeman got suspicious, followed us, stopped us, and arguably saved my life. I've thought about that night many times, and i don't think if I'd had a gun in the car it would have made the situation better, unless I had it in my hand as i drove along, and as I stopped at the light where they got me. I wasn't afraid enough to be doing that before my incident, and I didn't let it make me afraid of the world after it--just cautious. I pick up far fewer hitchhikers than i did when I was young (this incident happened before the first Apple computer*), but I'll still occasionally give a stranger a ride; I lock the doors at my house but i still answer the door. I keep a bat in my bedrooms in case I hear an intruder, but I haven't made the call yet to get a handgun. Everyone's experience and judgements will be different.

I presume you keep that bat handy for the purpose of doing extreme violence when it is required. It matters not whether you use a gun or a Louisville slugger. I assure you, if a crackhead breaks into your house while you and yours are having visions of sugarplums dancing in your heads, you are in imminent danger. I have read about and seen too many beautiful funerals of people who died at the hands of someone who, ostensibly, only stopped by to take the stereo.

Palm is playing the roll of a burglar in this little drama. (It's a metaphor, people.) Some are saying that Apple should do nothing while this small time thief eats away at the iPhone ecosystem a little at a time. That is INSANE! Don't like the burglar metaphor? Palm is a fly that must be swatted... to death. Perhaps if they opened up Palm Desktop, they would look a bit less hypocritical. For now, they are no better than Psystar and should be treated to the same bad death.

In Michigan unfortunately you'd probably go to jail. Moreover, your being sexist. I'd expect you to shoot the Bitch breaking into your house as well.

Damn straight. But if I knock the guy out, i'm not gonna proceed to beat him to death. That seemed to be the tenor of the post that started this dialogue.


Understood. And my high school buddy's dad got his gun when they were victims of a home invasion, but shot his son--my buddy's brother, and not one of the perps. That's a lot to have to live with. Maybe they'd all have survived if he hadn't gotten the gun; maybe they all would have died. Of course, our clarity is worst when we're suddenly awakened, and our conscious perceptions might even be influenced by what we've been dreaming. What if the intruder's our kid, maybe even dressed in a mask because halloween's three weeks away and kids just...do what kids do? I'll not revisit all the arguments for/against a handgun in the phone, I just haven't made up MY mind yet.


LOL. Well done!

For the obligatory Apple-related content: the "MacBurglar" is a fast-food character, isn't he? Does that keep this post on-topic?

Seriously, on syncing, i struggled for so many years to sync Now-Up-To-Date and other app content to my macs, it's a gift today to have Mail and AB and the rest sync so nicely. If only I could get my iPhone address book to sync with the contact list on my car's bluetooth phone system. Does anyone know any make/model of car that makes that easily do-able? Do-able at all?

Not at all the same thing! Google is "replacing some of the core functions of iPhone" by writing its own program. So yeah, you can "make a 'phone call'" with a Google app; and you can with Skype and Truphone and I suppose others.

Google is not hacking the iPhone so that when you go to the regular built-in phoning function and make a phone call you can do it through Google instead of your regular carrier on your SIM card account.

People are saying the Google app should be approved because the carrier should be open to competition -- that since you are already paying ATT for "unlimited data", you should be able to use your data bandwidth in this way. How is this making Apple look bad? These apps add value to the iPhone. It makes ATT service look bad. Now, if Google was trying to sell its hardware Gphone or whatever by using as a selling point that it syncs fully and smoothly with iTunes just as though it was an iPhone, I think there would be a little bit of a problem.

If Apple said, "hey we can give you Google Maps and Google search on your iPod or iPhone without the ads, because we have figured out how to hack straight into Google's servers without using their publicly released APIs, then you can bet there would be a problem!

There is no double standard, because people are calling for Palm to do the same as Google (and as Blackberry has already done with your iTunes library) -- WRITE THEIR OWN PROGRAM. Good grief, how hard is that to understand!

Palm is not only trying to access your library, which is legitimate and allowed by Apple; they are trying to take advantage of the user experience that Apple has carefully crafted and developed for its own devices. They want the automatic sync with smart playlists, and unwatched podcasts, and everything else. These are part of the selling point and differentiation of Apple's iPods and iPhones. And Palm is using Apple's uniquely assigned USB ID to achieve it.

Considering how vindictive Steve is known to be, I'm willing to bet that there'll be a security update or something coming down relatively soon that really messes with Palm. Now that they are intentionally violating USB protocol by claiming to be an iPod (after the review), Apple can take the gloves off and end it. It's just a matter of how long it'll take to find a way that makes it a permanent break for the Pre.

Man you got all that? You must be a real Apple supporter. Man, you sound sad thinking that owning apple branded hardware is some sort of credential. As if anybody here cares whether you have any macs or iPods whatsoever. The only problem is that your point of view is wrong and hard to defend. No matter how many macs and iPods you have. As I read, you don't have an iPhone. Which leads me to think that you are now so much regretting you bought a pre instead of an iPhone. Which by the way, does sync with iTunes just as it should do. If I were a Pre owner I'ld be so upset. That a company who promises me synergy with my iTunes collection. But really it's just an on and off feature because they are trying to give me functionality through some other companies back door. I would say. Palm get your act together and give me a stable solution.

You might not see this. But this burglar where people keep referring to is not only Apples intruder. But also yours. They (Palm) got your money with a promise they knew they couldn't keep. They robed you. Now when Palm is not coming through for you. You still have to get your iPod and listen to that new song you just bought. Next time think different.

People have forgotten how serious an issue syncing data on the phone and computer used to be before the iPhone. Don't let anyone get away with saying that iTunes sync is not a big deal or a legitimate reason to choose one phone over another. As for car syncing, I suspect that Apple will one day release a version of iTunes for the car. After all, there are already iDevice docks built into cars. Who knows what the future might bring. One thing's for certain, if Palm is still in business when it happens, they will try to hack that too and claim that it is everyone's god given right to have iTunes car-sync.

Yes I am

Thank you for noticing.

Agreed. iTunes has got along just fine with third-party devices with drag/drop and XML access to the library. It would be a huge over-reaction to stomp on all third-party devices.

Apple's beef is with Palm, since Palm is the only one hacking the system instead of using the methods Apple provides. In my view the only decent Apple response is to simply break the Pre's syncing (well, Palm's syncing, since presumably the upcoming Pixie will use it as well) in their next update. No need to do any more than that.

I do NOT believe Apple should sue Palm. Frankly, I've come to think this is what Palm is hoping for. I can't but feel they're a little desperate, and poking Apple with a stick looking for them to do something Palm can really cry about.

Palm is still hoping for public support on this. I can see why, given some of the moronic comments I've seen all over the net.

Exactly. People supporting Palm in this are acting like 1) the Pre has a right to the same consideration on the Apple platform / software as an Apple product does; and 2) that this would be good for Apple.

As though it would be good for Apple to say, "hey guys, buy whatever phone you want but come and use our great software with it, because afterall, it's free. Then maybe, just maybe everyone will see what nice guys we are and buy a Mac on that basis, even though they have already demonstrated themselves to be cheapskates with delusions of entitlement."

Apple doesn't make money on iTunes, it makes money on phones and computers. Why are people buying those phones and computers? Because they offer an experience that is superior to the competition, and a real value for money because (besides quality and longer life of the product) the software bundled with them is easier to use and more productive.

If a person chooses a Pre for whatever reason (no local ATT service or something I would imagine), then they need to accept it doesn't have the advantages that an Apple phone using Apple software will have. Get over it. If a person chooses a Pre to spite Apple, then they are just cutting their own nose off and they have bigger issues than just being in the odd position of rejecting an Apple product but eagerly clamoring to get preferential treatment from Apple's free software instead.

Of course Apple would like to have their ITunes exclusive for their products! And, they may have certain right to this (according to law in most countries) but when the ITunes becomes a large monopoly (in part because they force all users of ipods/iphones to use any software you want as long as it is the slow an grand ITunes hog...) then authorities will force them to stop! Why? It is uncompetetive behaviour and illegal!

Just to be clear, I own 3 macs and an Iphone which are great things! Still I thing palm should use all the power, force and ingenuity they can muster to crack the monopolistic anti-competetive apple tactics!

Frankly Apple can take the competition whithout being a bully! BTW there is no secure solution to lock out anything (like ITunes media library) from a private computer when you have root access. If you do not want to spoof as ipod there are many other ways to rip the ITunes library. I think Apple is surely loosing the fight to google and other "open standard champions" if the continue this fight. In the end they will be forced by law and then they will look very stupid!

The missing sync apparently works with the Pre. If I had a Pre, I'd buy that. Legit way around it all. Save a headache. Maybe Palm can buy Mark/Space to save the Prez' butt.

Why doesn't anyone believe that BB sync software, WinMo, Zune, or Palm Desktop should be equally open to all devices? Let's dispense with the blatant hypocrisy, shall we? This is about robbing the only bank worth robbing.

Palm either has big, big kahunas or no brains.

I don't know- everybody on here has such a kanipshin fit whenever Apple gets sued yet I don't hear any rallying call for Apple to sue Palm on this.

Hmmmmmmmm.......

i'm sure if Palm keeps this up, the forum would think of something

So all my Apple stuff means nothing.


Because I don't have an iPhone too?

Yeah, that makes me a Palm fanboy. That makes sense.


If it means thinking like you...forget it. BTW, being an Apple lemming is not thinking different.

The issue is Palm's Pre using Apple's USB vendor number to trick iTunes, which is a blatant violation of the USB-F regulations. Basically, it's a hacker move - not something a legitimate company should be doing - and it's illegal. Apple allows third party devices to sync with iTunes (ex. the BlackBerry Desktop Sync Application), but for whatever reason Palm chose not to go that route. Palm is in deep $#!T here.

And, if I misunderstood your post, I apologize.

The forum?
Why doesn't Apple flex its legal muscle?

My friend the hypocrisy it yours. Blackberry and others use XML and on system software to sync their devices with iTunes. Palm did it better by loading the software on the Pre and getting iTunes to sync w/o a middleman on the desktop.

Apple decides to repeatedly block Palm but ignores Samsung, Blackberry, etc...

Uh, is it because Palm does it better and has a real iPhone challenger? Or is it because Steve is petty and still pissed at John?

It's probably one of those.

The Palm's syncing with iTunes doesn't hurt Apple anymore than Blackberry sync does. But Apple differentiates and treats them differently. I think that says something about Apple.

I believe you did, but no apology necessary.

How do you like your Intel based G4?