Flash coming to most smartphones, but not Apple's iPhone - Page 6

So why is YT using Flash then when it can use something that doesn't require people to have Flash?
Woah I want to try this because every time I visit YT my Macbook fans go like crazy. I wonder if there is something like this for Firefox.

EDIT: Darn. Unfortunately ClickToFlash is for Safari only. Deal breaker for me. Firefox is too important for me to start using Safari just for YT. One browser only thanks. Actually come to think of it since I've been using Firefox my Mac isn't as noisy. The world needs to let flash die.

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My guess is that it's because of all the extra features they've built into the Flash-based player that wouldn't be there (at least, not consistently across platforms) with any given browser's generic video player.

Alkrantz,

In your post you said,

"there is plenty of flash content that people DO want to see"

"all of these make A LOT of money"

"and have a HUGE consumer audience"

"that WILL buy a phone that has flash"

"whether you liek flash or not, many consumers do"

"there is flash content people want to see"

"consumers WILL notice if they cant view the content they want"

"And they WILL buy the product that lets them view the content they want."

I replied with, "Alkrantz, what evidence do you have that consumers will notice when flash content is missing and will therefore factor that into their device purchasing decision? I'm one of those so called normal customers/users with an iPhone you are talking about. I for one have not been impeded in ANY way by the lack of iPhone flash support in over three years of use! Stop guessing what you think other people are experiencing and trying to speak for them (and then try to use that as evidence for another point). There is enough BS floating around out there. We don't need more!"

And in your rebuttal you said, "I'm not entirely sure what your even talking about.....BUT...If you really think no one cares that flash content is missing from the iPhone, and are looking for evidence that people are in fact impeded by it not being there, than you need to reread this thread, because there are multiple people in it stating they wish flash was on the iPhone in order to have access to content they currently can not see. So I'm not really 'guessing'. Besides, claiming that you represent the 'so called normal consumer' is in fact making the same presumption you claim that I am making."

My reply to your post was so basic and straightforward I don't see how you can NOT understand it. What happened was I saw a lot of subjective opinion masquerading as hard-won objective fact gleaned from many expensive and accurate scientific surveys about what many people may think. And I simply asked you where all your evidence came from so I could go read it for myself. I then went on to clearly speak ONLY for myself, giving you at least one data point letting you hear from just one of the many typical consumers YOU were trying to speak for. I then ended asking you to do the same...speak just for yourself and leave all the other garbage behind. As far as your rebuttal goes, where do I say "no one cares that flash content is missing from the iPhone"? I just said...I...don't care. Speaking for everybody is your territory, not mine. And I never claimed to represent anything, you claimed it for me. I have read every word of all six pages of posts in this thread (by now). Have you? We need to be clear that when you posted near the end of the FIRST page, there weren't yet the "multiple people stating they wish flash was on the iPhone." Regardless, I'm not interested in a for/against count off this tiny little forum (relative to the whole world) or I would have done that already. Let us return to my unanswered question. I simply want to know where all YOUR scientific data comes from to support ALL your GIGANTIC claims? Don't have any? Thought so. Attack the person who asks for it? Yes. The classic response when one's argument has no teeth.

Agreed - there is absolutely a ton of sites that are flash based or have flash content besides kids ones. Whatever tricks HTML5 will be able to pull off if/when it is standardized, there's no reason that Safari on the iPhone can't support both. Even if web developers start to stray from flash more at that time, there's a sizeable chunk of the web being left out.

Well, I DO want flash on my iPhone. I'd like to be able to, you know, actually view the internet properly.

Apple don't give me that option. Apple's mobile internet experience is very broken, and unless they add flash, that will always be the case. Other mobile OSs will have flash before long, making the iPhone seem dated and out of touch.

1) Why don't other mobile OSes have a full veraion of Flash already since Apple isn't holding them back? Could it be that Adobe is late o the game with this "announcement" and that Apple's decision not to include Flash Lite on the iPhone back in 2007--when in late-2009 Flash on Mac OS X is still a resource hog--actually the right move. Jobs said Flash sucked on mobile devices and we now have Adobe saying that they will finally get a real version of Flash on mobiles sometime in 2010. How was he wrong?

2) If you want to count plugins as being an integral part of the Internet and not actually deem a browser having the full Internet without plugins then adding Flash won't change that. Specifically, there a lotvof sites, especially gov't sites, that rely on ActiveX. Are we to expect to support this somehow? What about other plugins? Whether he was lying or not, Jobs didn't say that Flash was not an option, just the versions that Adobe had available. Despite nearly 3 years since the iPhone announcement and their many statements about "working on it" they still haven't produced a decent mobile version of Flash. If Adobe would have been on the ball instead of playing catchup to both mobile Flash and Silverlight, then Apple may have had no choice butvto include it as an option.

I don't want Flash on my iPhone, I don't want surreptitiously installed Flash cookies on my MacBook either or my PC, which is why I install flash blockers.

I don't want no stinkin' flash period.

Other mobile OS's already have flash in the form of flash-lite just think of all this precious time you've wasted by having an iPhone when you could have been browsing Flash based sites to your heart's content.

Nearly all the big name sites that use Flash have resolved lack of Flash by having either a free app or having an iPhone version of their site. With 80% usage in the mobile browser market the iPhone is the trend setter for mobile web.

So forgive me when I laugh at people claiming that lack of Flash is tempting them to switch from the iPhone. Switch to what?! No mobile phone supports those flash pages.

As far as falling behind, are you kidding me? Most of the features seen in current smart phones wouldn't even be there if Apple didn't keep pushing the envelope of expectation. Yes you may find new features on some phones that iPhone doesn't have, but then the next iPhone OS update often brings new & advanced features that other phones don't have. The tug of war will always go back & forth, it will go on forever.

For me, I use an iPhone because it simply works! I had a blackberry before, it crashed all the time. Friend just got new BlackBerry, it crashes all the time. I work in IT & we support WinMobile devices, they crash all the time, loose e-mail settings, etc.

Of our smartphones among staff 80% are iPhones, 15% BlackBerry, 5% other. 90% of our support issues revolve around BlackBerry & WinMobile sync issues. Only support calls we ever get on the iPhones are typical laptop issues like being unable to get on wireless, & the issue is actually almost always our wireless!

Don't even get me started on some of the technical limitations of BlackBerry & others, did you know BlackBerries won't sync Cantacts with a no last name? Did you know about how finicky it is that one invalid character & it will start duplicating your contacts like crazy? How long has BlackBerry been around & had the chance to resolve this issue? Seriously, the dribble is getting old.

As I stated in my first post:

"Obviously you will take what I am saying however you want, but this is my real world experience working in web and what I have seen to be true."

How you were able to interpret this statement as "hard-won objective fact gleaned from many expensive and accurate scientific surveys" is beyond me. I have always been clear that my opinion, like the rest of us here, is based on my personal experience and entirely subjective. Which of course entitles you to dismiss it as you see fit.



First, let me explain that I have not failed to respond because I had no response, but because I actually do things other than come to this forum. It just so happens there was a Vikings vs Packers game I wanted to see. Go Vikings!

Second, judging from the way you have responded to my posts, you seem to have anger management issues which lets me know that there really isn't anything I can say that you will like and that this will not be a cordial conversation, so this will be the last time I indulge you.

In answer to your questions, the reason I am not quiet sure what you are talking about is because you have stated that I am making outrageous and gigantic claims and misrepresenting the typical consumer with some sort of scientific data, but really I don't know what claims you're talking about. To my knowledge all I have claimed is that some people want flash on the iPhone and further more that Flash isn't going away. I have also stated that flash has many purposes beyond just banner ads, and that many of the developers who create it are also creating other content and are actually good developers. These don't seem like scientific claims to me, as much as common sense.

But seeing as you are preoccupied with where I get the information to make these assertions, I will tell you. Some of this is gleamed directly from this thread, some if it from the other numerous threads about this same subject on this site and others, but also much of my understanding comes from being in the web development field for over 10 years developing all varieties of web content for a wide variety of clients.

If you are looking for me to point you to a scientific report of some kind backing up my assertions, or maybe a signed letter from the Bureau of Pointless Statistics, I don't have one, and if you would like to discount my opinion due to the lack of any official supporting documentation, than go right ahead, I am not writing a dissertation here, I'm just putting my two cents in on a forum filled primarily with other apple enthusiast (and a few windows enthusiasts) who find the issue entertaining and in some cases professionally relevant.

Either way, I will say again, that I don't really care if you believe what I am saying. If you need me to be wrong and you need to be right, then I am fine with that. You win. Congratulations. my suggestion to you is, don't take it all so seriously, maybe have some tea.

You're absolutely correct, IMO. I'll see your 100% and raise you 11%.



Happens every day. I wish safari could tell me which page (tab) has the Flash process that's killing my machine. Often I have to just quit Safari and restart.

I honestly don't see how mobile safari and the iPhone could support Flash. It's not as stable as my desktop environment and Flash kicks it in the balls every day. I could see mobile Flash killing usability on the iPhone.

Here's hoping HTML 5 gains traction.

So go get one of the phones that do support Flash. The experience is pretty ugly, but have at it. I'm just glad I don't have to...

Yeah, that's great. And now it seems QT X can play Flash videos too. The world is complete! Hummmm....

You can also get an .flv quicklook plugin and just play everything using quicklook (using Quicktime of course). I hardly open the Quicktime ap now and when I do its Quicktime 7....

The ones complaining about bothersome flash ads seem to completely miss the irony as what would happen should HTML 5 + SMIL + CSS animations and whatever new developments are currently in the pipeline should really manage to replace Flash: You'd have animated ads on your iPhone with no means to turn it off. The prevalence of Flash, the current irrelevance of alternatives *and* the lack of a working iPhone Flash player is all there stands between you and a hell of animated banners on your precious iPhone.

I made mention of it in this thread or another. At least with Flash I can turn it off, but with HTML5 animations itll be a much harder to discern which content is unfavourable. Ou of the frying pan and into the skillet. On the bright side, at least itll use less resources.

You can only turn it off if Apple provides that option. That and it won't run on the bloody phone without serious headaches.

Im referring to Flash in general. On Desktop browsers I have Flash turned off by default. I have whitebaord sites that will auto-load Flash if I go to that site or I simply click in the appropriate Flash box. On YouTube it auto loads QuickTime X for me.

With HTML5s animations I wont have this option of keep Flash banners from appearing; at least not with ease. They wont be resource hogs, but they will be visually unappealing.

Oh, my bad.

My bad, I could have been clearer.

We just need the Mobile Safari version of Adblock Plus + Element Hiding Helper.

On my desktop, most Flash placeholders for ads never materialize if I click the Flashblock > arrow, as Adblock Plus already took care of filtering that crap out.

How do you see this? Even with a Flash video playing, I can't see "Flash Player (Safari Internet plug-in)" listed in Activity Monitor. I only see Safari and it's only at 41%.

MBP 2.16 GHz Core Duo 2GB RAM

Alkrantz,

You said, "How you were able to interpret this statement as 'hard-won objective fact gleaned from many expensive and accurate scientific surveys' is beyond me. I have always been clear that my opinion, like the rest of us here, is based on my personal experience and entirely subjective...In answer to your questions, the reason I am not quiet sure what you are talking about is because you have stated that I am making outrageous and gigantic claims and misrepresenting the typical consumer with some sort of scientific data."

Arggh. I have been pretty clear with my point two times already. I won't bother with a third and rest confident that most readers should be able to see what I meant. I'm sorry if you don't.



Then, "First, let me explain that I have not failed to respond because I had no response, but because I actually do things other than come to this forum."

You did reply to my first post and fail to answer at that time my question about where you get the data to support such bold statements. So what I said is fair. You're bringing up irrelevant facts about things that happened after the fact.



You also said, "Second, judging from the way you have responded to my posts, you seem to have anger management issues."

I'm confident people won't think my posts were "angry". This falls again under attacking a person rather than deal with an issue. And lastly I don't take such a statement seriously when it comes from somebody who on the first page in their first post out of the blue says to everyone, "I also believe that those of you who are saying you will get rid of your iPhone when that happens are idiots."



And, "Either way, I will say again, that I don't really care if you believe what I am saying...My suggestion to you is, don't take it all so seriously, maybe have some tea."

If nobody ever stands up for principles every now and again, who will? You're not the only one who's busy. I am too, but had read something that was simply too over the top to not say anything. And secondly, see previous paragraph. Weren't you taking this flash debate a little seriously? Anyway, who are you to decide when and where anybody should be concerned about anything? It's not for you to judge what others want to care about.



And finally, "But seeing as you are preoccupied with where I get the information to make these assertions, I will tell you. Some of this is gleamed directly from this thread, some if it from the other numerous threads about this same subject on this site and others, but also much of my understanding comes from being in the web development field for over 10 years developing all varieties of web content for a wide variety of clients."

I'm sorry but those are not examples of citations or references that a person can go check on. And I'm not discounting your professional experience. Just saying that doesn't entitle anybody to know what everybody is thinking. Nobody can, hence the reason scientific surveys are tried. If what you really meant to do is give opinion only, your choice of wording is to blame. If you really want an example of what I mean, I'd be happy to give one, but I get the feeling you don't. So, I'll just end here.

The day hell will order large amounts of mittens is the day Apple will allow browser extensions on the iPhone. I'd actually laugh my buttocks off when iPhone users had to stare at all the fine blinking and moving ads, probably wishing for the return of Flash. :-P


I've never seen the need to use Adblock Plus in conjunction with Flashblock as ABP only leaves the legitimate Flash elements on a site (provided a good filter subscription is used). But that's off-topic.

The simple truth is that unfortunately there is so much variation in consumers' screen sizes, graphics cards, operating systems, browsers, versions of software, ISP's, etc. that anybody trying to create an internet site that works correctly for everyone is in for a bit of work. You pretty much have to decide right now who you want to create good content for and who you don't. On the hardware side Steve Jobs made a decision that he feels is the correct one about not supporting flash. Site creators who don't want to create a non-flash site for the iphone and other customers, do so at their own choice. Either it will be a good choice or not. I personally don't think Steve will "give in" until an efficient version of flash is created. I'm willing to bet flash and flash site creators cave first.

And as far as the argument that when html 5, smil, and css animations replace flash and unleash a holy terror of banners and animations on the iphone as well as everywhere else...so we should all just give in..., I agree those folks are probably forgetting about the fact that other things can change too, like anti-banner and anti-advertising technology. And if the "advertising apocolypse" happens like the doomsdayers predict, it is important to remember it is possible to drive people away from the internet entirely you know. So there are options there. Also, when it comes to the giant battle currently waging between subscription-based services and ad-supported services, who ever said it had to be one or the other? Why can't a free ad-based option coexist side by side with the subscription-based one? For people who want cheap and don't mind ads, they can do that. For people who don't want ads and don't mind paying, they can pay the nominal subscription rates to get clean, clutter-free, enjoyable internet. There is simply too much hostility, domination, and negativity out there. It most certainly does NOT have to be that way, if people would just start approaching things more thoughtfully and respectfully.