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Flash coming to most smartphones, but not Apple's iPhone - Page 3

post #81 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadkid08 View Post

last time I checked 33% is still an F bro :P

The most popular video website in the world (YT) works with the iPhone.
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post #82 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

That argument doesn't work, as even though I really don't want it on my desktop machine there are far too many sites I visit that require the piece of crap that is Flash!!

It's not an argument, it's about choice. And what does what you say have to do with anything I said? If the sites you visit require flash, they wouldn't work on your iPhone in the first place currently unless they have a special dumbed down mobile version.
post #83 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ooh , you hurt my feelings with that one. NOT!
Now exactly- why is it considered trolling to like FLASH?

Liking Flash is not trolling.

Your comments and the fact that your "all over every Apple story like a rash" with your negative arguments regardless of whether or not there is any fact to support your "claims" is proof enough of your trolling!
post #84 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

It's not an argument, it's about choice. And what does what you say have to do with anything I said? If the sites you visit require flash, they wouldn't work on your iPhone in the first place currently unless they have a special dumbed down mobile version.

Exactly, and by requiring Flash, they have taken away my choice to view their website. Point well made.
post #85 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by oweneck View Post

I agree completely too, however what advantage would you have in canceling your SMS feature, other than for receiving unwanted text messages?

That is exactly why I canceled it. I got a brand new phone number when I bought my 3GS, and had 4 unwanted text messages within the first week from spam numbers even though I didn't sign up for texting.

That, and I don't see the point in paying for texting if I can send an email for free. But for others, they love texting and that's there CHOICE. I wouldn't crap on someone else's CHOICE to have texting/SMS.
post #86 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkrantz View Post

God I hope not. I am already having to adjust to developing Silverlight content. If Apple produces a plug-in of their own I will cry.

He was talking about HTML5/CSS3/etc., not some proprietary browser plugin on top of all that. Apple's been pushing open standards for years, and is beginning to really pick up the pace more recently, because they know they need a level playing field if they're to have a chance of competing on their own merits. Reducing the Web's dependence on (unhealthy addiction to?) a completely opaque, proprietary plugin controlled by a single company (especially one that makes a point of short-changing Apple for kicks) is a big first step toward that.
post #87 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Exactly, and by requiring Flash, they have taken away my choice to view their website. Point well made.

No one is stopping you from using Flash on your Mac. I use it on my MacBook Pro.

The only one stopping you from having Flash on the iPhone is Apple.
post #88 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Liking Flash is not trolling.

Your comments and the fact that your "all over every Apple story like a rash" with your negative arguments regardless of whether or not there is any fact to support your "claims" is proof enough of your trolling!

That's because you're only hand picking out what you deem negative. I've left many a positive post on Apple. I'm not the only one here that wants at the very least an option for FLASH. Sorry you have such Flash hatred - not good.
post #89 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Liking Flash is not trolling.

Your comments and the fact that your "all over every Apple story like a rash" with your negative arguments regardless of whether or not there is any fact to support your "claims" is proof enough of your trolling!

Not to mention, if all you have to say is negative about one specific company, why would you spend so much of your time talking about something that you mostly hate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

That is exactly why I canceled it. I got a brand new phone number when I bought my 3GS, and had 4 unwanted text messages within the first week from spam numbers even though I didn't sign up for texting.

That, and I don't see the point in paying for texting if I can send an email for free. But for others, they love texting and that's there CHOICE. I wouldn't crap on someone else's CHOICE to have texting/SMS.

Completely agree, I actually use text messages a lot, it's more convenient me to use to talk to those for that don't have the best e-mail features or options on their phones to talk with, however its always nice to see someone elses opinion and perspective also.
post #90 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Join me newbee -and together we will rule the dark side of the farce.


The thing is: most of the time I think you ARE the dark side of the farce ... see my problem? \
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post #91 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Oh, so you're the one. Flash sucks on the Mac, people know this.

GOOGLE

Well Flash works for me as well on my mac. Never had an issue with it.
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post #92 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by oweneck View Post

Not to mention, if all you have to say is negative about one specific company, why would you spend so much of your time talking about something that you mostly hate?

Hate? Who are you talking about hate? I love my Apple products, save one.
post #93 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Streming anything for hours using anything will mess up anything - and your point?

Streaming for hours using anything will not render your browser of choice and possibly OSX inoperable. You need flash for that. Unfortunately most streaming is done with flash these days, so streaming virtually anything can lead to problems. You are right about that, but the problem lies with flash. This flash plugin for phones may not be terrible performance wise though, since it will utilize video processors unlike the OSX version.

Flash is so prevalent because it makes it easy for web developers to make flashy (no pun intended) websites, not because it is friendly to the end user, and it is a brick on OSX.
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post #94 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Streaming for hours using anything will not render your browser of choice and possibly OSX inoperable. You need flash for that. Unfortunately most streaming is done with flash these days, so streaming virtually anything can lead to problems. You are right about that, but the problem lies with flash. This flash plugin for phones may not be terrible performance wise though, since it will utilize video processors unlike the OSX version.

Flash is so prevalent because it makes it easy for web developers to make flashy (no pun intended) websites, not because it is friendly to the end user, and it is a brick on OSX.

IS streaming Real Player Flash too? That sucks too.
post #95 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

IS streaming Real Player Flash too? That sucks too.

That still exists? Honestly I didn't know, and I can't believe you used that program to support your point on flash.
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post #96 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

That still exists? Honestly I didn't know, and I can't believe you used that program to support your point on flash.

To be fair, he said that Real Player sucked
post #97 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

To be fair, he said that Real Player sucked

True, but suggesting that flash isn't bad because Real Player exists is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
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post #98 of 224
If they can't even get full screen video working on a Dell Mini 9 on XP, I doubt they will get Flash working in HD on phones, with most of them not even running a decent ARM CPU. Hardware accelerated? WTF? Like those other phones even have anything remotely close to a GPU in their headsets like the iphone/itouch do!

Heck, even the Wii struggles with Flash, ESPECIALLY the new Flash Lite they put in it.

Quick! What good is flash for? Video? Menus?

Guess what? YouTube clearly shows you don't need the flash wrapper for videos, and there have been Flash alternatives for what it does for years. You can keep being tied to Adobe, or you can join the rest of the world giving them the finger with HTML5.
post #99 of 224
I've found flash to be pretty appalling on the mac, I'd go as far to say that the sound of spinning fans hurt my browsing experience. An option for flash on the iPhone would be nice since, when I last checked, not all youtube videos even worked on it. Battery life on the iPhone is pretty pants anyway so that's not a good excuse for keeping flash off. That said, H.264 videos aren't exactly perfect.

It will be interesting to see how far Apple goes to kill flash. They risk hurting their sales and it's a pretty big negative to people (not me as I don't see the point to be honest). And flash will be around at least for the next few years.
post #100 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

No one is stopping you from using Flash on your Mac. I use it on my MacBook Pro.

The only one stopping you from having Flash on the iPhone is Apple.

You too seem to have missed the point.

I don't want to use Flash on my Mac, it's a big resource hogging whale! By making a site Flash only, I don't have the choice to view it without Flash.
post #101 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Oh well, never mind, I certainly wont shed a tear.

Well it doesn't really matter being that Safari is HTML5 ready. With HTML5, web developers can embed their content right into the web page and they can be played right through the web browser., eliminating the need to even use Flash. It also incorporates H.264 which indeed does deliver some unprecedented detail whether your viewing it over Wired, Wi-Fi or 3G connection. Furthermore, Flash opens another door for hackers to potentially invade your device. Their is a reason why Apple didn't take part in the project. They have something that will probably beat what the industry has to offer. But you never know with Apple, being that they are so damn secretive.
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post #102 of 224
Apple's priority for the iPhone is the common consumer. Apple wants the iPhone to "just work" without". Flash on mobile devices "works sometimes" and at best "doesn't work very well".

So Flash is kind of a big deal on new smartphones. The iPhone doesn't have it, the Pre doesn't have it, BlackBerry devices don't have it... but the Hero does. Unfortunately, in our testing, we found the inclusion actually hurts operation of the phone more than it helps. When browsing to a site heavy on Flash (there are many), the browser loading times were abysmal. Furthermore, trying to view videos in-window produced choppy, nearly unwatchable results. You may have a better experience with lighter kinds of content, but in our opinion the main reason to introduce Flash into a mobile environment is to allow for broader media viewing options, and in the current state of this Flash player, you're not really going to get much mileage out of it.

Engadget

Apple wants to use the dominant position of the iPhone to push emerging technologies that do the sam job as flash but even better. These technologies are more appropriate for mobile devices and do not abuse resources or battery life the way flash does.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I don't understand all the hatred towards Flash. If you don't like it, DON'T INSTALL IT ON YOUR IPHONE!!!

What is wrong with giving us another option to use? If the OPTION is made available, I will use it on my iPhone. If you don't want to use Flash, you wouldn't have to install it on your iPhone (if it were made available).

Again, I don't see what the issue is here. I absolutely DESPISE text messaging and have no use for it since I can email with my iPhone. So I called AT&T to disable it. No harm, no foul.

Same with Flash, if you don't want to put up with it, don't install it... end of discussion. But if the rest of us want to use it, why would you support limiting that option to us?
post #103 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Exactly- that's why we got 2003 MMS in 2009!

MMS is a kludge.

Flash is a kludge too, at least in its real-world use.

I never ever encountered Flash outside of these things:
- ads
- consumer sites (like ikea)
- crappy games
- working around standard imposed security restrictions for the sake of user-friendliness
- in replacement for css/html/js/dom stuff but the dev couldn't get a clue of how to do it properly
- vendor-provided embedded audio/video player

Most/All of people need in this (who needs ads, etc... ?) and much more is doable in HTML4/HTML5 resp.

If you need anything more than what HTML&al. provides you with, then you need a full-blown application in .Net/Cocoa/whatever. That does not mean it's not a connected app. Think Twitter.com vs Twitter clients. Think Google Mail vs you regular MUA. See all those non-web, cloud-enabled apps on the iPhone/Android/Pre. See how the cloud offsets storage, computing and notifications off your iPhone when it matters, and do things locally when it matters. Do you see the pattern?

Ubiquitous web apps and optimised local apps as an interface to the cloud. Flash has no place to fit in that world. It tries to succeed where Java applets did fail, but Java had the good idea to then stick on the server side. What remains of Flash as a developper base is the equivalent of VB on the local app side and PHP on the server side. No sane developper would want to touch those with a 10-foot pole, if only for the specific aura they have.
post #104 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

He was talking about HTML5/CSS3/etc., not some proprietary browser plugin on top of all that. Apple's been pushing open standards for years, and is beginning to really pick up the pace more recently, because they know they need a level playing field if they're to have a chance of competing on their own merits. Reducing the Web's dependence on (unhealthy addiction to?) a completely opaque, proprietary plugin controlled by a single company (especially one that makes a point of short-changing Apple for kicks) is a big first step toward that.

Exactly. and crucially, this also applies to silverlight. Jobs is determined to keep both from dominating mobile computing at least. And erode their grip on the desktop browser too. With the iphone's runaway popularity all major sites will have to offer other options. This is hardball folks.
post #105 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

That still exists? Honestly I didn't know, and I can't believe you used that program to support your point on flash.

??WTF- I was responding to your declaration and asked a direct question!

Quote:
Unfortunately most streaming is done with flash these days

,
post #106 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

He was talking about HTML5/CSS3/etc., not some proprietary browser plugin on top of all that. Apple's been pushing open standards for years, and is beginning to really pick up the pace more recently, because they know they need a level playing field if they're to have a chance of competing on their own merits. Reducing the Web's dependence on (unhealthy addiction to?) a completely opaque, proprietary plugin controlled by a single company (especially one that makes a point of short-changing Apple for kicks) is a big first step toward that.

I'd like to say I believe in Apple and their convictions, but shortly after writing a post I saw an Apple ad using... you guessed it, flash!
post #107 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

IS streaming Real Player Flash too? That sucks too.

I stream Netflix for hours on end... no issues, ever. Maybe Silverlight should come to iPhone instead!

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post #108 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

True, but suggesting that flash isn't bad because Real Player exists is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I wasn't. I was merely stating that I've used streaming Real Player on certain sites that only offer it and was wondering if that too was FLASH! Jeesh!
post #109 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

You too seem to have missed the point.

I don't want to use Flash on my Mac, it's a big resource hogging whale! By making a site Flash only, I don't have the choice to view it without Flash.

Well, that's your CHOICE and you made it. You have the tools to view Flash, but you choose not to use them.

It'd be one thing if a site operator made a Flash site and didn't provide you the tools to use it, but the tools are readily available to use Flash.

Now whether Flash is a resource hogging whale; that's up to you. I use it on my 13" MacBook Pro and don't have any issues.
post #110 of 224
Good, Flash needs to go away -- already made it happen on my Mac with ClicktoFlash -- works like a charm! ;-)
post #111 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

Exactly. and crucially, this also applies to silverlight. Jobs is determined to keep both from dominating mobile computing at least. And erode their grip on the desktop browser too. With the iphone's runaway popularity all major sites will have to offer other options. This is hardball folks.

Well that reasoning didn't work for MMS , nor glossy screens , nor SD slots, nor Blu-ray. And it won't work here either. you'll see.
post #112 of 224
I managed to read till the middle of the second page of this thread, so please excuse if someone already mentioned the obvious:

Besides refusing to give away to Adobe half of the computing resources and battery life available on the iPhone, for free , Apple has EXTREMELY IMPORTANT REASON to keep Flash away as long as they can afford this (without bringing too many user complains, that is):

Apple wants to build a platform around the iPhone. The #1 differentiator between the iPhone and the rest of the pack is the AppStore. If there is a decent Flash version running on the iPhone, there will be a wave of developers which will use Flash for delivering apps. But those apps will run on all phones (initially, it will not really matter whether they are usable on those other platforms or just run in theory). Everybody is against Apple in this game. Everybody will try to promote flash.

What those guys don't get is that they are giving a proprietary technology of a single company too much power. But they do not think that much ahead. If Flash is crappy, it will be crappy on all platforms, right?

Edit: BTW, that's why Apple does not want Java, or any emulator, as well.
post #113 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGod 2.0 View Post

Well it doesn't really matter being that Safari is HTML5 ready. With HTML5, web developers can embed their content right into the web page and they can be played right through the web browser., eliminating the need to even use Flash. It also incorporates H.264 which indeed does deliver some unprecedented detail whether your viewing it over Wired, Wi-Fi or 3G connection. Furthermore, Flash opens another door for hackers to potentially invade your device. Their is a reason why Apple didn't take part in the project. They have something that will probably beat what the industry has to offer. But you never know with Apple, being that they are so damn secretive.

Video aside, which I understand is huge. HTML 5 / CSS 3 does not offer the same capabilities as flash. The more accurate comparison would be Javascript / AJAX which has been leveraged quite successfully on the iPhone. I am very anxious to see Javascript move forward because if any current language is going to replace Flash/Flex/AIR/AS3 its going to be JS based. Apple's own site does a great job and I believe (it's been awhile since I checked their source code) that they are using Scriptaculous.

I have had a lot of success using JQuery to gain some of the typically Flash based functionality.
post #114 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

I hope Flash never comes to the iPhone because Flash is a steaming pile of crap and it is obviated by HTML5.

Maybe, but many websites these days are heavily flash dependent and many of those don't even offer a non-flash option. Yeah it sucks, but what's good having internet on a phone if it can't view websites. If Apple or someone else want to develop something better, I'll welcome it but until then flash is the reality.
post #115 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Good, Flash needs to go away -- already made it happen on my Mac with ClicktoFlash -- works like a charm! ;-)

Just tried it out. Cannot use it. I'll rephrase that, will not use it now, yet. The video cannot be set to play automatically on YouTube, and you cannot click the video itself to play and pause (and go full-screen) which I have gotten very used to on YouTube.

Flash is better on the Mac for YouTube until the guy behind this makes those fixes.
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post #116 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post

I managed to read till the middle of the second page of this thread, so please excuse if someone already mentioned the obvious:

Besides refusing to give away to Adobe half of the computing resources and battery life available on the iPhone, for free , Apple has EXTREMELY IMPORTANT REASON to keep Flash away as long as they can afford this (without bringing too many user complains, that is):

Apple wants to build a platform around the iPhone. The #1 differentiator between the iPhone and the rest of the pack is the AppStore. If there is a decent Flash version running on the iPhone, there will be a wave of developers which will use Flash for delivering apps. But those apps will run on all phones (initially, it will not really matter whether they are usable on those other platforms or just run in theory). Everybody is against Apple in this game. Everybody will try to promote flash.

What those guys don't get is that they are giving a proprietary technology of a single company too much power. But they do not think that much ahead. If Flash is crappy, it will be crappy on all platforms, right?

Edit: BTW, that's why Apple does not want Java, or any emulator, as well.

This is probably the most sensible anti-flash comment I have seen on this site and I completely agree that this is the motivation for Apple to keep flash of the iPhone. The only thing I would disagree with here is the premise that Flash is just going to inherently suck on the mobile platform. Adobe is investing HUGE amounts of resources into making flash work better on the mobile platform and despite the random idiotic comments that "Adobe developers are all idiots", they are in actuality probably very talented (just like the guys at Microsoft) and I expect they will eventually resolve the problems with flash. I dont know why everyone think it's somehow unsolvable.

What I think will be truly interesting is what will happen when iPhone competitors have access to flash/air/flex apps for their phones that DO work well. Which I believe will happen. How will that compare to the app store? What will the economics be? Will they be free? Will it be a web based market place? All very interesting and much more likely than the idea that flash will just forever suck on the mobile platform.
post #117 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Well that reasoning didn't work for MMS , nor glossy screens , nor SD slots, nor Blu-ray. And it won't work here either. you'll see.

You forgot to somehow or another tie in how hot the ATV is and how it doesn't have an on/off button. You're off your game this morning.
post #118 of 224
A website that is heavily built on flash isn't likely to work on any phone.

Web developers know this, and is the reason why most popular websites have developed a mobile version that uses no flash and streams media using H.264.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Maybe, but many websites these days are heavily flash dependent and many of those don't even offer a non-flash option. Yeah it sucks, but what's good having internet on a phone if it can't view websites. If Apple or someone else want to develop something better, I'll welcome it but until then flash is the reality.
post #119 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Good, Flash needs to go away -- already made it happen on my Mac with ClicktoFlash -- works like a charm! ;-)

I have to agree. The load times have been dramatically reduced and, so far, no more safari crashes .... but then, I've only been using it for less than a week now. Color me happy!
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post #120 of 224
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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