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Not quite Flash, Adobe announces iPhone native app porting

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Though Flash is still not available on the iPhone, Adobe announced Monday that developers will be able to export their applications created in the format within CS5 for submission to Apple's App Store.

Accordingly, Adobe launched its new "Applications for iPhone" Web page, touting the ability to build applications for the iPhone and iPod touch using ActionScript 3. The page shows three applications that were created via Flash and ported to the iPhone OS as native software.

"We've done a lot of work to make sure that applications are quick and interactive, and give you the kind of experience that you would expect from Flash, as well as the kind of experience that you've come to expect on your iPhone," said Adrian Ludwig, a member of Adobe's Flash team.

The applications currently available on the App Store are Chroma Circuit, Trading Stuff, Fickleblox, Just Letters, South Park, That Roach Game and Red Hood. All were created with a pre-relse build of Flash Professional CS5.

"What developers have to do is they have to go inside of Flash Pro and they have to export that project to a native application for the iPhone," Ludwig said. "While you're using Flash Pro to build these applications, it's being converted from .SWF to .IPA."

He noted that the method is in compliance with the iPhone developer agreement, which means the software can be submitted to the App Store for approval. The feature will be available for both PC and Mac, and a public beta is planned for later this year.



Earlier Monday, Adobe announced that Flash Player 10.1 was coming to most major smartphones including handsets from Research in Motion, Nokia and Palm. But absent from that list was Apple.

Adobe has said in the past that it hopes to bring Flash to the iPhone, though Monday's announcements would suggest that will not likely happen anytime soon.
post #2 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Though Flash is still not available on the iPhone, Adobe announced Monday that developers will be able to export their applications created in the format within CS5 for submission to Apple's App Store.

I have to say I correctly predicted this a couple months back in an earlier thread.

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post #3 of 51
So ... port your half-assed flash game to the new platform in a half-assed way?

It's easy to see why Adobe is on top!
post #4 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

So ... port your half-assed flash game to the new platform in a half-assed way?

Why the animosity? This is actually pretty cool (unless someone's sole driving interest is to see Flash die, utterly and completelyand I'd rather that doesn't happen when Silverlight is the animation fallback). We won't be seeing any top-notch games from this sort of move, but it likely would help to introduce some of the fun time-wasting Flash games online to the iPhone. I'm not sure how much more it will result in beyond thisit would surely introduce limitations as compared to developing an iPhone app through the proper channels.
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post #5 of 51
When Ren & Stimpy's Crazy Cannon is ported, I'll buy an ipod touch
post #6 of 51
Apple offers near flash quality?
post #7 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

So ... port your half-assed flash game to the new platform in a half-assed way?

It's easy to see why Adobe is on top!

Because there aren't any half-assed native iPhone games at all on the app store...
post #8 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

So ... port your half-assed flash game to the new platform in a half-assed way?

It's easy to see why Adobe is on top!

I'm going to laugh at this guy allllll the way to the bank!!!
post #9 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Why the animosity? This is actually pretty cool (unless someone's sole driving interest is to see Flash die, utterly and completelyand I'd rather that doesn't happen when Silverlight is the animation fallback). We won't be seeing any top-notch games from this sort of move, but it likely would help to introduce some of the fun time-wasting Flash games online to the iPhone. I'm not sure how much more it will result in beyond thisit would surely introduce limitations as compared to developing an iPhone app through the proper channels.

Well apologies for seeming mean, but yes ... I'm in the camp of those that thinks Flash should die, utterly and completely, and it can't happen soon enough for me. It's a poor solution that's holding the entire web back at this stage.

This move is about "getting Flash on the iPhone" (in a roundabout kind of way), not about making Flash a useable solution for making games or presentations.

If Adobe really, actually, cared about the end user, they would be working on providing this exact same functionality to "export" a flash project to HTML. Most uses of Flash could easily be done in HTML 5.0 at this point, with games currently cited as "the hardest" to do in HTML. here they have provided a method of getting Flash games onto the iPhone, but not given a method for those games to work on the web *without* the Flash plugin.

Certainly they could get a lot of good will by simply giving up on the concept of Flash embedded videos when there is simply no reason to use Flash for that anymore. But no, Adobe seems to be more about monopoly lock-in than actual solutions providing.

My main point was that the games that could be ported in this way won't really be using multi-touch or any of the native features of the iPhone really, they will just be using basic sprite animations and generic input methods etc. So what we are talking about here is just a few more "low-end" and probably free games for the iPhone.

Probably I should have used "low-end" instead of "half-assed."
post #10 of 51
some apps may contain traces of flash.
post #11 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Well apologies for seeming mean, but yes ... I'm in the camp of those that thinks Flash should die, utterly and completely, and it can't happen soon enough for me. It's a poor solution that's holding the entire web back at this stage.

Ah, but that's just the thing. I, too, can't wait to see Flash wither away and eventually vanish from the Web, but in this particular case, we're talking about individual applications custom-made for the iPhone platform. Not ads or games or cartoons embedded in a Web page meant for desktop PCs, but iPhone apps that happen to have been authored using Flash. I don't think Flash content poses quite the same problems (that is, if they've been able to improve its processor and battery usage) as an individual, standalone application as it does as a proprietary accessory in the larger context of what's supposed to be an open, standards-based platform.
post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Apple offers near flash quality?

Flash offers near Apple quality?
post #13 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

When Ren & Stimpy's Crazy Cannon is ported, I'll buy an ipod touch

chronster, you eeeeeediot!!

post #14 of 51
It's just one more application in the App store. It'll be interesting to see how popular or not Flash based games will be on the iPhone.
post #15 of 51
The Pre folks must be laughing their asses off over this.
post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Flash offers near Apple quality?

Flash based games won't touch C/C++/ObjC++/ObjC based OpenGL games in Cocoa natively in the iPhone or on OS X.
post #17 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

I'm going to laugh at this guy allllll the way to the bank!!!

ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha
ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha
ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha
ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha
ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha
ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha$ha
 
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post #18 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Well apologies for seeming mean, but yes ... I'm in the camp of those that thinks Flash should die, utterly and completely, and it can't happen soon enough for me. It's a poor solution that's holding the entire web back at this stage.

But... to what alternative? Seriously, here. You see people clamoring in these discussions for HTML 5's capabilities to replace Flash, but that's not going to happen. HTML/CSS is not going to be replacing the sort of animation capabilities we see in various online games, for example. A more dedicated solution like Silverlight or Flash is required, and in the absence of a better solution, I'll cheerfully root for Flash over Silverlight.

What I do want to see is an end to Flash for navigation (that's just disgraceful) and embedding video. Both should, ideally, find a solution through HTML and CSS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

If Adobe really, actually, cared about the end user, they would be working on providing this exact same functionality to "export" a flash project to HTML. Most uses of Flash could easily be done in HTML 5.0 at this point, with games currently cited as "the hardest" to do in HTML. here they have provided a method of getting Flash games onto the iPhone, but not given a method for those games to work on the web *without* the Flash plugin.

I think it's pretty obvious that you're not developing on these platforms. Translating the full extent of Flash capabilities to HTML 5 would not only be unrealistic (a crazy mess of hackery or simply impossible in the worst cases), it would be highly complicated, and the code would be a disgusting mess. On the iPhone, at the very least, Adobe knows they're targeting a defined platform. HTML 5 in the wild wild web offers no such promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Certainly they could get a lot of good will by simply giving up on the concept of Flash embedded videos when there is simply no reason to use Flash for that anymore. But no, Adobe seems to be more about monopoly lock-in than actual solutions providing.

Goodwill from who? Us? Do you think they're going to get more developers by doing something like this? They won'tin fact, they'd alienate current developers depending on Flash for this capability. Note that some of these developers happen to be high-profile developers, many of whom help to drive adoption of Flash on user computers. What you're really saying is that, "Adobe would generate some goodwill by shooting themselves in the foot with a shotgun."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

My main point was that the games that could be ported in this way won't really be using multi-touch or any of the native features of the iPhone really, they will just be using basic sprite animations and generic input methods etc. So what we are talking about here is just a few more "low-end" and probably free games for the iPhone.

We can at least agree on one point: that the Flash export probably won't take advantage of iPhone-specific features in any appreciable way. I imagine they'll offer some basic capabilities, in the least, for screen gestures and the touch interface.[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post

The Pre folks must be laughing their asses off over this.

I wouldn't feel too good if my iPhone transformed into a Pre right about now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee

[...] It's a poor solution that's holding the entire web back at this stage

Ah, but that's just the thing. I, too, can't wait to see Flash wither away and eventually vanish from the Web ...

Did you seriously just call him out for capitalization of 'web'?
Read up on the subject before you bring grammar to a completely unrelated debate. The issue of whether 'Web' and 'Internet' should be capitalized and when, if ever, is still hotly debated among those who actually care, and is also contradicted in some styleguides.

Even Wikipedia can tell you some more.

Edit: Or maybe Blah64 is right (below) and I'm just a grammar nerd for even noticing the association.
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post #19 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Did you seriously just call him out for capitalization of 'web'?

Looks to me like he's emphasizing The Web as opposed to dedicated apps built on Flash.
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post #20 of 51
So every other other fricking smart phone was smart enough to sign with Adobe and get Full Flash except Apple and Steve's fricking control Freak iTunes Store.

The iPhone is going to get watered down Apple Kool-Aid version of recompiled Flash and every other Smart Phone is going to have Full Blown Flash.

2 and a half years I've been waiting for Flash and this is Steve's solution? 7

It's the start of the 90's all over again and every other phone is going to surpass the iPhone because of Apple and Steve Jobs Control Issues just like Apple's OS.

WinMo, Android, PRE, HTC all will have Flash & Multi Tasking. Apple is giving us BS toy app's that the average 3rd grader is going to love.

I am so glad I didn't buy the 3GS. The 3G will be the last Apple product I ever own.

Good luck with the new Macs coming out. I'm sure the last years processors will run the new Macs great and will be all the rage at the Apple Stores. :/Sarcasm.
post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Looks to me like he's emphasizing The Web as opposed to dedicated apps built on Flash.

Looks like you could be right. Could be my bad for noticing an association which most folks here probably don't even know or care about.
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post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Did you seriously just call him out for capitalization of 'web'?
Read up on the subject before you bring grammar to a completely unrelated debate. The issue of whether 'Web' and 'Internet' should be capitalized and when, if ever, is still hotly debated among those who actually care, and is also contradicted in some styleguides.

Even Wikipedia can tell you some more.

Wha? No, no, I was highlighting his mention of the web/Web/wtfever to point out the distinction between Flash embedded in a page and Flash running inside its own little application environment. I don't particularly care about the capitalization.
post #23 of 51
Here's my question (without having read any technical docs yet):

Did they create some kind of cross-compiler that takes Flash code and spits out a native Cocoa app, or are they just slapping a Flash interpreter wrapper around people's apps? The first seems like a HUGE amount of work, fraught with challenging technical hurdles. The second seems like it would be out of compliance with Apple's iPhone Developer Agreement.

This is after only a couple minutes of analysis without digging in yet. Must be missing something.
No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #24 of 51
I tried all the free offerings of the flash based games that are already available on the App store (Red Hood, Trading Stuff, and That Roach Game), and the performance is abysmal. A screen fade in the roach game looked like it was going 5-10 FPS for example.
Dont know if its the programmers fault or the flash layer of development, but if there is a big performance hit from using the flash route to make games, all the polishing in the world will give you just that- a shiny piece of poop.
post #25 of 51
I have to agree. Flash sucks. It has uses for animation, but when it started taking over navigation, they went too far. I don't need animated menus that take 30 seconds before I can use them. I just want to click a link and get to where I want to go. Now I'm forced into Menutisements on far too many web pages.

It needs to die a horrible death or at least be put back in it's animation box where it belongs.
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post #26 of 51
Enjoy the freedom of Adobe's Flash, not that you'd want to side with the control freak open standards of the kind Apple supports.

So how much is Adobe paying you to help them continue their proprietary monopoly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

So every other other fricking smart phone was smart enough to sign with Adobe and get Full Flash except Apple and Steve's fricking control Freak iTunes Store.

The iPhone is going to get watered down Apple Kool-Aid version of recompiled Flash and every other Smart Phone is going to have Full Blown Flash.
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post #27 of 51
oh sh*t NVF ban expired. Here we go again.

For the record I think Flash is pretty cool as long as you don't hit the back button. YMMV.

What do they say in Europe? Your Kilometer-age may vary?

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post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

So every other other fricking smart phone was smart enough to sign with Adobe and get Full Flash except Apple and Steve's fricking control Freak iTunes Store.

The iPhone is going to get watered down Apple Kool-Aid version of recompiled Flash and every other Smart Phone is going to have Full Blown Flash.

2 and a half years I've been waiting for Flash and this is Steve's solution? 7

It's the start of the 90's all over again and every other phone is going to surpass the iPhone because of Apple and Steve Jobs Control Issues just like Apple's OS.

I'm with you until there. I don't really get what OSX for the Mac has to do with the iPhone though. Anyway, I can't wait for the Nokia N900 to come out. That thing is so much more cool than the iPhone!
post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

So every other other fricking smart phone was smart enough to sign with Adobe and get Full Flash except Apple and Steve's fricking control Freak iTunes Store.

The iPhone is going to get watered down Apple Kool-Aid version of recompiled Flash and every other Smart Phone is going to have Full Blown Flash.

2 and a half years I've been waiting for Flash and this is Steve's solution? 7

It's the start of the 90's all over again and every other phone is going to surpass the iPhone because of Apple and Steve Jobs Control Issues just like Apple's OS.

WinMo, Android, PRE, HTC all will have Flash & Multi Tasking. Apple is giving us BS toy app's that the average 3rd grader is going to love.

I am so glad I didn't buy the 3GS. The 3G will be the last Apple product I ever own.

Good luck with the new Macs coming out. I'm sure the last years processors will run the new Macs great and will be all the rage at the Apple Stores. :/Sarcasm.

So all that ranting, do you actually have any point to enlighten us with or is that your daily rant as you promised to Ballmar & Co.
post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

I'm with you until there. I don't really get what OSX for the Mac has to do with the iPhone though. Anyway, I can't wait for the Nokia N900 to come out. That thing is so much more cool than the iPhone!

If you do not understand, then before making judgement, actually research the topic!

As for Nokia N900, let's see what happens when it is released. My personal opinion is the the same old tired design with touch screen capabilities and better operating system, then N97.
post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

If you do not understand, then before making judgement, actually research the topic!

Did I make a judgement? I don't remember.
post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

I am so glad I didn't buy the 3GS.

So are we all.

Quote:
The 3G will be the last Apple product I ever own.

Is that a promise? We'd hate to see you back here in the future.
post #33 of 51
Maybe when you get one you can send an MMS to my iPhone...

...oh hang on the N900 doesn't support MMS.

Too bad it's stuck in landscape mode most of the time, I'm sure it won't take the open source community working for free, too long to overcome these minor issues and contribute to Nokia's profits.

Don't you think it's just a little ironic that you linked to a site called my-symbian when the N900 is a sign of Nokia abandoning that platform in favour of Linux?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

I'm with you until there. I don't really get what OSX for the Mac has to do with the iPhone though. Anyway, I can't wait for the Nokia N900 to come out. That thing is so much more cool than the iPhone!
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post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Maybe when you get one you can send an MMS to my iPhone...

...oh hang on the N900 doesn't support MMS.

That sure is a bit strange, but OTOH why use expensive MMS when you can just as easily mail your pictures using your unlimited data plan?

Quote:
Too bad it's stuck in landscape mode most of the time, I'm sure it won't take the open source community working for free, too long to overcome these minor issues and contribute to Nokia's profits.

Good point. I always wonder why people do that. I guess just for the fun of it. Anyway, I think open standards are much more important than open source. Apple is doing well in that regard.

Quote:
Don't you think it's just a little ironic that you linked to a site called my-symbian when the N900 is a sign of Nokia abandoning that platform in favour of Linux?

Yes it is I realized that. I guess they will have to change their name to 'my-open-source,-Nokia-supported-mobile-phone-OS.com'
post #35 of 51
my-not-so-symbian-anymore.com?

I notice that Symbian Freak that source of unbiased information presented in such a tasteful and pleasant way has already moved with the times with a maemo section in his forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

Yes it is I realized that. I guess they will have to change their name to 'my-open-source,-Nokia-supported-mobile-phone-OS.com'
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post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Certainly they could get a lot of good will by simply giving up on the concept of Flash embedded videos when there is simply no reason to use Flash for that anymore. But no, Adobe seems to be more about monopoly lock-in than actual solutions providing.

Apple don't do monopoly lock-ins for their own financial interests then?

post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

So ... port your half-assed flash game to the new platform in a half-assed way?

It's easy to see why Adobe is on top!

Yeah...stupid Adobe with all their failing products, like Photoshop. What a disaster that was. And that stupid Flash, which is industry-standard, useable on 99% of computers and has no real competitor (even stopped another Microsoft monopoly)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

What do they say in Europe? Your Kilometer-age may vary?

I can't believe how many levels of stupid you covered in one sentence...that must be a new record. Or a terrible joke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

Did I make a judgement? I don't remember.

Yes, you said a Nokia was better than the iPhone. Short memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I have to agree. Flash sucks. It has uses for animation, but when it started taking over navigation, they went too far. I don't need animated menus that take 30 seconds before I can use them. I just want to click a link and get to where I want to go. Now I'm forced into Menutisements on far too many web pages.

It needs to die a horrible death or at least be put back in it's animation box where it belongs.

I think you missed the point of Flash-based web sites, which are designed to display consistently no matter what browser you're using. Presumably you also complain when you can't view something or something displays wrongly in Safari or Firefox too?
post #38 of 51
OK, Adobe compiles their Flash stuff into .ipa format. Not that bad, actually. Sure, there will be tons of errors and incompatibilities, yet this is all they can do.

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post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

Did I make a judgement? I don't remember.

Yes, you said a Nokia was better than the iPhone. Short memory
[/QUOTE]

I did indeed, but (oh boy this is going to be complicated) but the poster to whom I said that I didn't see what the iPhone had to do with OSX on the Mac was suddenly calling OSX on the Mac 'just like the iPhone' or something, and then you said I should research but I thought I hadn't compared OSX on the iPhone and on the Mac so therefore I asked if I made a judgement. Got it? Me, I'm a bit confused right now
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsa View Post

That sure is a bit strange, but OTOH why use expensive MMS when you can just as easily mail your pictures using your unlimited data plan?

Well that's the point us iPhone owners have been making all along. It just seems to have been ignored.
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