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Apple abandons U.S. Chamber of Commerce over climate policy

post #1 of 150
Thread Starter 
In response to recent comments opposing efforts to limit greenhouse gases, Apple has resigned from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in protest.

Apple filed a letter with the chamber on Monday, noting that the company is "committed to protecting the environment and the communities in which we operate around the world." According to The New York Times, the chamber recently made comments opposing the Environmental Protection Agency's efforts to limit greenhouse gases, and Apple does not agree with that stance.

"As a company, we are working hard to reduce our own greenhouse gas emissions by relying on renewable energy at our facilities and designing more energy-efficient products for our customers," Catherine A. Novelli, vice president of Worldwide Government Affairs, wrote to the chamber. "We have undertaken this unilaterally and without government mandate, because we believe it is the right thing to do. For those companies who cannot or will not do the same, Apple supports regulating greenhouse gas emissions, and it is frustrating to find the Chamber at odds with us in this effort."

Recently, the chamber threatened litigation if the EPA enacts greenhouse gas regulations. The chamber would rather see Congress set policy through legislation.

"We would prefer that the Chamber take a more progressive stance on this critical issue and play a constructive role in addressing the climate crisis," Novelli said. "However, because the Chamber's position differs so sharply with Apple's, we have decided to resign our membership effective immediately."

The Times noted that Apple is not alone in its departure: Pacific Gas & Electric, PNM Resources and Exelon, three utility companies, all resigned in recent weeks. Nike also withdrew from the chamber's board, but retained its membership.

Just weeks ago, Apple began reporting its carbon emissions, the first time the company offered such public disclosures. Apple said that its products produce a great deal more emissions than its operations.

Apple co-founder Steve Jobs also did an interview expanding on his company's green goals. The company began a public relations push years ago after it was targeted by Greenpeace over the use of toxic chemicals in its products.
post #2 of 150
Bad Ass Apple! I like it!

Seriously, makes me want to buy more Apple stuff... and I think I will buy a en iMac for my wife shortly!
post #3 of 150
Wow, pretty balsy from apple, way to go. Just might be self defeating to quit an organization to force it to do something, but then again maybe it will actually push them into tougher standards.
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--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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post #4 of 150
I'm glad that Apple has principles, but they're being silly on this particular issue. But that's for a political thread... which this will undoubtedly become. Bailing before that happens.
post #5 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Seriously, makes me want to buy more Apple stuff... and I think I will buy a en iMac for my wife shortly!

My cynical nature tells me this is the reason why Apple did this.

Hopefully I'm dead wrong.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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post #6 of 150
Kudos to Apple for seeing through the USCOC's disingenuous posturing and taking a principled position against it.
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post #7 of 150
The Goracle (undoubtedly while private-jetting back to his 10,000 sq ft mansion from some GW conference overseas) probably was threatening to resign from Apple's board, and they couldn't have, you know, the father of the internet and all, do that. Just like our so-called "health care crisis," so many people are simply sheep willing to be led to and fro by the con man of the hour.
post #8 of 150
Nice to see at least one company with principals. The Chamber of Commerce is bought and paid for by special interests, always has been.
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post #9 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post

The Goracle (undoubtedly while private-jetting back to his 10,000 sq ft mansion from some GW conference overseas) probably was threatening to resign from Apple's board, and they couldn't have, you know, the father of the internet and all, do that. Just like our so-called "health care crisis," so many people are simply sheep willing to be led to and fro by the con man of the hour.

If you are going to digress I have to comment. The 'sheep' are those in need of such things a decent health care system (i.e. not a money making system for the insurance companies) that support the status quo because Fox News tells them to.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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post #10 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post

The Goracle (undoubtedly while private-jetting back to his 10,000 sq ft mansion from some GW conference overseas) probably was threatening to resign from Apple's board, and they couldn't have, you know, the father of the internet and all, do that. Just like our so-called "health care crisis," so many people are simply sheep willing to be led to and fro by the con man of the hour.

One hundred percent in agreement with Coffeetime. Much as I admire Steve Jobs, Apple, and Apple's products, I simply can't stomach Al Gore and his looney Democrat politics. The one move Steve has made that I heartily disapprove is putting Gore on the Board of Directors.
post #11 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

One hundred percent in agreement with Coffeetime. Much as I admire Steve Jobs, Apple, and Apple's products, I simply can't stomach Al Gore and his looney Democrat politics. The one move Steve has made that I heartily disapprove is putting Gore on the Board of Directors.

So there is no Global Warming eh? lol It's just a cycle ... eh? Rush told you that i assume? ROFL
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post #12 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

If you are going to digress I have to comment. The 'sheep' are those in need of such things a decent health care system (i.e. not a money making system for the insurance companies) that support the status quo because Fox News tells them to.

I know this has nothing to do with the original thread but universal health care is the right of every individual on this planet. Most OECD nations have it and it costs less than the mess that the US calls health care. In Australia we have managed to do it with medium tax system and coverage for all especially more coverage of special medicines for those that need it more.

It's time for the citizens of the US to stop being duped by the rubbish about the scary government and see whats happening every else where health care is free or very cheap and is of the same or higher standards for more people in more locations.

Back on topic
Also, I am a green peace member and even if we picked on Apple (and not every computer maker) they have come through with the goods and this is a very ballsy move. good on them.
post #13 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

So there is no Global Warming eh? lol It's just a cycle ... eh? Rush told you that i assume? ROFL

No pun intended, but I suggest you conserve your energy. It's been amply demonstrated what happens to a low-wattage bulb when too much is applied to it. If you wish to shed light, apply your energy to bulbs with the proper capacity.
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post #14 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

One hundred percent in agreement with Coffeetime. Much as I admire Steve Jobs, Apple, and Apple's products, I simply can't stomach Al Gore and his looney Democrat politics. The one move Steve has made that I heartily disapprove is putting Gore on the Board of Directors.

Most scientists agree that global warming is happening regardless of who is causing it. they also have figured out it is happening faster than we original thought. also, CO2 and CO are the key gases causing this. Regardless of it being man made or not we need to reduce our CO and CO2 so we can get this planet back to a more habitable level and reduce the ocean levels before it is too late.

The island countries close to Australia are already losing land and one Island has almost been completely wiped out. They will be the first global warming refugees.
post #15 of 150
Apple, the beneficiary of competing well in what has been up to now one of our least regulated and, thus, most successful, industries, is far too political -- and, given the above, hypocritically so.

They have put the odious, loud, idiotic, and self-serving Al Gore on the board, donated lots of money to support gay marriage, and now this.

Socialist climate change theories remain highly controversial and much debated. For Apple to, once again, take a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public is simply stupid.

Steve Jobs' ill-considered and pseudo-intellectual forays into the political extensions of his former hippie days should by now have matured logically. As they have not, he should stay focused on what he is good at, and that is not political thought and discourse.

As an Apple fan and investor who has evangelized Apple products for many years, this "me generation" "self-congratulating" baby-boom nonsense simply makes my job more difficult.

Grow up, Apple. Grow up, Steve
post #16 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linj View Post

Apple, the beneficiary of competing well in what has been up to now one of our least regulated and, thus, most successful, industries, is far too political -- and, given the above, hypocritically so.

They have put the odious, loud, idiotic, and self-serving Al Gore on the board, donated lots of money to support gay marriage, and now this.

Socialist climate change theories remain highly controversial and much debated. For Apple to, once again, take a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public is simply stupid.

Steve Jobs' ill-considered and pseudo-intellectual forays into the political extensions of his former hippie days should by now have matured logically. As they have not, he should stay focused on what he is good at, and that is not political thought and discourse.

As an Apple fan and investor who has evangelized Apple products for many years, this "me generation" "self-congratulating" baby-boom nonsense simply makes my job more difficult.

Grow up, Apple. Grow up, Steve


Perfectly stated. I'm also an Apple investor and someone who has purchased hundreds of Macintosh computers over the years for our business. Apple has been a supplier, a client for our services, and a much admired technology innovator. On the personal level, I love my unibody 17" MacBook Pro and my iPhone 3gs.

However, I'm strongly offended by Gore's presence on the Board and by political moves like this one. Will Michael Moore be the next Board member? Why not? He's an Al Gore clone (similar views and exactly the same credibility).
post #17 of 150
Al Gore-hypocrite! Do something about the Chinese human rights abuse that makes your products firstly before your environmental BS. And China is the biggest environmental hazard on this planet anyway.
post #18 of 150
Way to go Apple!
post #19 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linj View Post

Apple, the beneficiary of competing well in what has been up to now one of our least regulated and, thus, most successful, industries, is far too political -- and, given the above, hypocritically so.

They have put the odious, loud, idiotic, and self-serving Al Gore on the board, donated lots of money to support gay marriage, and now this.

Socialist climate change theories remain highly controversial and much debated. For Apple to, once again, take a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public is simply stupid.

Steve Jobs' ill-considered and pseudo-intellectual forays into the political extensions of his former hippie days should by now have matured logically. As they have not, he should stay focused on what he is good at, and that is not political thought and discourse.

As an Apple fan and investor who has evangelized Apple products for many years, this "me generation" "self-congratulating" baby-boom nonsense simply makes my job more difficult.

Grow up, Apple. Grow up, Steve


Speaking of growing up.... discussions of gay marriage have no place on this forum, particularly in the context of climate change policy, so leave can leave your flamebait on that topic at the door -- most don't care, and the ones who do are just going to take offense to your statements. In fact, the entire discussion about Gore is pointless -- we have no idea what role (likely none) he had in Apple's resignation.

Climate Change is not a political issue, it's a tangible and measurable force to which we are undeniably contributing. It's putting many species at risk, including our own. We can't afford to politicize such a serious threat, and the people who are playing politics with it, including bemoaning conservationists, they become the ones who need to grow up. We can argue semantics about how big our impact is on this threat all we want, but no one can deny that we are contributing. So we need to do everything we can as a world community to reverse the trend. If that means calling out organizations who are more interested in their bottom dollar than the future of our planet, then that's what we should be doing. Apple again made the right move here with respect to Climate Change -- it was not in the least political or immature.
post #20 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

Way to go Apple!

Misinformed MUCH?

(thank you for teaching me how to enlarge )
post #21 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linj View Post

Apple, the beneficiary of competing well in what has been up to now one of our least regulated and, thus, most successful, industries, is far too political -- and, given the above, hypocritically so.

They have put the odious, loud, idiotic, and self-serving Al Gore on the board, donated lots of money to support gay marriage, and now this.

Socialist climate change theories remain highly controversial and much debated. For Apple to, once again, take a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public is simply stupid.

Steve Jobs' ill-considered and pseudo-intellectual forays into the political extensions of his former hippie days should by now have matured logically. As they have not, he should stay focused on what he is good at, and that is not political thought and discourse.

As an Apple fan and investor who has evangelized Apple products for many years, this "me generation" "self-congratulating" baby-boom nonsense simply makes my job more difficult.

Grow up, Apple. Grow up, Steve

I can understand being opposed to climate change legislation, but what does same sex marriage have to do with bad business practices?
post #22 of 150
I still love Apple despite this moronic move. What makes it really funny is that all our Apple products are MADE IN CHINA.... the biggest emitter of CO2 on the freaking planet. So the statement or move is kind of rich since the anti-business cap n trade bill that will bend us all over to the tune of several THOUSAND DOLLARS a year..... won't have any effects on their production even if it were to go through. However, it would make it harder for us to buy their great computers.

I'll stand behind the Chamber at this point. A group that I've seen as completely useless with both of my own businesses.... however.... this is a good move on their part.

Think I'm full of crap? Pull your head out of your collective BUTTS people if you are believing this global warming bullcrap. I'll be the first to admit it.... I used to buy into it myself. But it's a LOAD OF CRAP... all designed as a means to screw us all out of more of our money.

Before you start arguing with me.... try EDUCATING YOURSELF.

Want to find some awesome information made by real, ACTUAL scientists and not some moron blowhard on one of the networks.... let me recommend this site to you.

SPPI, The Science & Public Policy Institute. It was started by Lord Christopher Monkton... he used to be the science advisor to Margaret Thatcher. Check out their CO2 report for Aug.... it's a whopping 33 pages of REAL INFORMATION..... that you need to understand.

http://www.scienceandpublicpolicy.org

If you're smart enough to READ..... you're smart enough understand what they're saying and maybe just come to the same conclusion I did after looking at REAL SCIENCE... and not an emotionally charged joke like Al Gore, who I think couldn't pass a 3rd grade basic science class or test.

Stop grabbing your ankles America..... Your ignorance is not bliss, it's a way to get SCREWED by people who really don't have your best interests at heart.

Use your BRAIN.... not your EMOTIONS..... and learn.

Z
post #23 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

Perfectly stated. I'm also an Apple investor and someone who has purchased hundreds of Macintosh computers over the years for our business. Apple has been a supplier, a client for our services, and a much admired technology innovator. On the personal level, I love my unibody 17" MacBook Pro and my iPhone 3gs.

However, I'm strongly offended by Gore's presence on the Board and by political moves like this one. Will Michael Moore be the next Board member? Why not? He's an Al Gore clone (similar views and exactly the same credibility).

Sounds like your just offended by Gore. What's even sadder however is the fact that people see the Global Warming issue as a Democrat issue. Republicans think it's a waste of money. It's rather refreshing when a company actually self regulates for a lofty goal. There is a reason to be proud of that.

You'd have to live under a rock to believe that Global Warming isn't happening. I find the whole argument that we can't change it silly. If we can't do anything, then by all means lets just continue to take a dump in our back yards and let the next generation deal with it. You can only fail if you try, seems to be a popular and expedient political out. Insanity. I happen to believe there is very much that we can do once we as a race put our minds to it.

Everyone should be more concerned about your family and friends 50 years from now rather than which political party is in power right now. Sometimes there actually is a greater good. It's a shame people can't see it or serve it without the almighty dollar raising it's ugly head. The two don't have to be counter productive.
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post #24 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

Perfectly stated. I'm also an Apple investor and someone who has purchased hundreds of Macintosh computers over the years for our business. Apple has been a supplier, a client for our services, and a much admired technology innovator. On the personal level, I love my unibody 17" MacBook Pro and my iPhone 3gs.

However, I'm strongly offended by Gore's presence on the Board and by political moves like this one. Will Michael Moore be the next Board member? Why not? He's an Al Gore clone (similar views and exactly the same credibility).

If they really believe in what they claim, why leave the table to their opponents? It's showmanship. (If Al Gore et al. genuinely believe this, they should get into another business. Tens of millions of iPods and computers pollute in the manufacture, use and disposal process.) Quitting a business group won't change a thing. Working quietly within an influential group like the CoC is better, seriously. You don't walk away from trouble and expect something good to happen. Even if you don't believe in the Kyoto environmental creed, there's always room for improvement in environmental policies and practices. As for Michael Moore he's a classic example of this hypocrisy: hire non union workers and charge people to see your movie about those ruthless capitalists. It's showmanship. Stay in the fray and rattle the cage.
post #25 of 150
Perhaps it is because Steve Jobs actually thinks it is better to put principles sometimes above making money; Maybe he thinks the Environment is in dire straights like most of the leading experts on the topic.

Jobs is and has always been a democratic supporter. Clinton stayed at his house when Clinton's daughter graduated from Berkeley. Jobs actually also is an admirer of Gore who didn't invent the Internet, but was instrumental in sponsoring and passing legislation that allowed it to take hold.

What is interesting is that Apple has proven that you can actually make more money by doing the right thing. Namely, building responsible products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesmall View Post

One hundred percent in agreement with Coffeetime. Much as I admire Steve Jobs, Apple, and Apple's products, I simply can't stomach Al Gore and his looney Democrat politics. The one move Steve has made that I heartily disapprove is putting Gore on the Board of Directors.
post #26 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linj View Post

Socialist climate change theories remain highly controversial and much debated. For Apple to, once again, take a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public is simply stupid.


I suspect, by the tone of your post, that if Apple had taken a right wing stance instead of "a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public" you might not be so quick to dump on them.

IMHO climate change is a proven reality and even if we are not 100% sure of the cause, it is of such a critical nature that it is important for all of us to do whatever is under our control to do. I applaud Apple in taking the action they have. I'd like to think we would all put such an important issue above petty politics. Alas, I fear I'd be wrong to assume that.
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post #27 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

...
Before you start arguing with me.... try EDUCATING YOURSELF.

Want to find some awesome information made by real, ACTUAL scientists and not some moron blowhard on one of the networks.... let me recommend this site to you.

SPPI, The Science & Public Policy Institute. It was started by Lord Christopher Monkton... he used to be the science advisor to Margaret Thatcher. Check out their CO2 report for Aug.... it's a whopping 33 pages of REAL INFORMATION..... that you need to understand.

http://www.scienceandpublicpolicy.org

...

Use your BRAIN.... not your EMOTIONS..... and learn.

Z

I certainly have no desire to argue the issue when far more qualified do it capably and routinely. As you've stated Monkton however, I'd recommend a read of what climatologists, not merely "actual scientists" have to say about his position. Since you indirectly acknowledge a proclivity to "learning", "real information", and "reading", I'd suggest the findings at IPCC, as well as further information and discussions by climatologists at Real Climate. If you're further interested, I can supply you with notable multi-page bibliography of climatology papers and links. Note, I said climatology, not meteorology.
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post #28 of 150
Well said. The environment isn't a political issue. The politicians, however, benefit from the discord of the masses. It just so happens that Democrats are usually more right then wrong on issues of the environment. Problem is they too are in bed with the lobbyists.

PS:

I also am an Apple investor who is very proud when Apple does things like this. I also tend to try to buy American made products even when they cost more because it is patriotic to keep the money at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Sounds like your just offended by Gore. What's even sadder however is the fact that people see the Global Warming issue as a Democrat issue. Republicans think it's a waste of money. It's rather refreshing when a company actually self regulates for a lofty goal. There is a reason to be proud of that.

You'd have to live under a rock to believe that Global Warming isn't happening. I find the whole argument that we can't change it silly. If we can't do anything, then by all means lets just continue to take a dump in our back yards and let the next generation deal with it. You can only fail if you try, seems to be a popular and expedient political out. Insanity. I happen to believe there is very much that we can do once we as a race put our minds to it.

Everyone should be more concerned about your family and friends 50 years from now rather than which political party is in power right now. Sometimes there actually is a greater good. It's a shame people can't see it or serve it without the almighty dollar raising it's ugly head. The two don't have to be counter productive.
post #29 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Al Gore-hypocrite! Do something about the Chinese human rights abuse that makes your products firstly before your environmental BS. And China is the biggest environmental hazard on this planet anyway.

TeckDud .... Do you think we're all blind or something? Take your meds, old man.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #30 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

I certainly have no desire to argue the issue when far more qualified do it capably and routinely. As you've stated Monkton however, I'd recommend a read of what climatologists, not merely "actual scientists" have to say about his position. Since you indirectly acknowledge a proclivity to "learning", "real information", and "reading", I'd suggest the findings at IPCC, as well as further information and discussions by climatologists at Real Climate. If you're further interested, I can supply you with notable multi-page bibliography of climatology papers and links. Note, I said climatology, not meteorology.

The IPCC data is FLAWED..... whatever you do... make sure you don't expose yourself to an opposing viewpoint, or REAL INFORMATION and REAL DATA.

OMG... if you did that... you might have to ACTUALLY THINK....

I've read some of the IPCC reports.... and none of the reports ever seem to mention that big shiny ball of fire up in the sky..... and that sometimes.... it puts out MORE HEAT.... and sometimes...

LESS....

God..... Thank you I'm no longer an easily brainwashed liberal any more.

Z
post #31 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

Stop grabbing your ankles America..... Your ignorance is not bliss, it's a way to get SCREWED by people who really don't have your best interests at heart.

I've never understood why people opposed to environmental protection policies regard them as some kind of left-wing conspiracy, so maybe you can explain this to me: who exactly would profit from inventing a threat from global warming?

I know who would profit from denying the threat -- all the business who are making money from the status quo, and most particularly business that generate greenhouse gases, like the auto and oil industries, and the politicians supported by them. So we have a clear motive on that side. But if you want to argue that Al Gore and the scientific community are making this stuff up ... what's the motive?

By the way, you can cite one scientist in England who doesn't believe in global warming (and who worked for the Thatcher administration -- no conflict of interest there). You could also find scientists who don't believe in evolution or the Big Bang theory. I'm comfortable sticking with the overwhelming, international, scientific consensus on these issues.
post #32 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Misinformed MUCH?

(thank you for teaching me how to enlarge )

Now if we could only teach you to think!
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #33 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linj View Post

Apple, the beneficiary of competing well in what has been up to now one of our least regulated and, thus, most successful, industries, is far too political -- and, given the above, hypocritically so.

They have put the odious, loud, idiotic, and self-serving Al Gore on the board, donated lots of money to support gay marriage, and now this.

Socialist climate change theories remain highly controversial and much debated. For Apple to, once again, take a leftist political position at the expense of alienating a good percentage of the buying public is simply stupid.

Steve Jobs' ill-considered and pseudo-intellectual forays into the political extensions of his former hippie days should by now have matured logically. As they have not, he should stay focused on what he is good at, and that is not political thought and discourse.

As an Apple fan and investor who has evangelized Apple products for many years, this "me generation" "self-congratulating" baby-boom nonsense simply makes my job more difficult.

Grow up, Apple. Grow up, Steve

"Socialist climate change theories"...?

Sir (or ma'am), when was the last time someone called you a misinformed fool? Has it been more than 5 minutes? If not, then please accept my apologies for repeating the sentiment, but I have not seen such incredibly ignorant dribble since, well, since the last time I checked the internet, but that's not the point.

The point is that you should take your idiotic right-wing bullshit and stick it far, far up your ass because that is the best place for it.
post #34 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

The IPCC data is FLAWED..... whatever you do... make sure you don't expose yourself to an opposing viewpoint, or REAL INFORMATION and REAL DATA.

OMG... if you did that... you might have to ACTUALLY THINK....

I've read some of the IPCC reports.... and none of the reports ever seem to mention that big shiny ball of fire up in the sky..... and that sometimes.... it puts out MORE HEAT.... and sometimes...
...
Z

Well, in your reading of "some of the IPCC reports", possibly you overlooked the 2007 IPCC report which halved the maximum likely influence of solar forcing on warming over the past 250 years from 40% to 20%. This was based on a reanalysis of the likely changes in solar forcing since the 17th century.

But even if solar forcing in the past was more important than this estimate suggests, as some scientists think, there is no correlation between solar activity and the strong warming during the past 40 years. Claims that this is the case have not stood up to scrutiny (pdf document).

Direct measurements of solar output since 1978 show a steady rise and fall over the 11-year sunspot cycle, but no upwards or downward trend .

Similarly, there is no trend in direct measurements of the Sun's ultraviolet output and in cosmic rays. So for the period for which we have direct, reliable records, the Earth has warmed dramatically even though there has been no corresponding rise in any kind of solar activity.

Just summarizing for you, before I bend over, "grab my ankles", and put my "liberal" head back up my ...
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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #35 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

Think I'm full of crap? Pull your head out of your collective BUTTS people if you are believing this global warming bullcrap. I'll be the first to admit it.... I used to buy into it myself. But it's a LOAD OF CRAP... all designed as a means to screw us all out of more of our money.

Before you start arguing with me.... try EDUCATING YOURSELF.


Yes, and as the "real, ACTUAL scientists" who are in the back pocket of the tobacco industry will be only to glad to "inform" you, smoking doesn't cause cancer. ....try EDUCATING YOURSELF.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #36 of 150
Try this.

It was much warmer in the medieval warm period just a few hundred years ago.

CO2 in the atmosphere is a lagging indicator, when the planet warms from solar activity more CO2 from the oceans is released.

Research it, if that simple statement is true it is the end of the manmade global warming argument.

Manmade global warming is a red herring, if it was the problem it is made out to be it could be fixed very rapidly however various big powerful and monied interests would lose wealth and influence.

The argument has clearly been shifted to suit agendas, how can CO2 in the atmosphere be primarily an energy problem, CO2 is a chemical. The problem is chemical pollution but they don't want us to realize, they want to divert attention to energy because restricting developing countries use of energy will ensure the continuity of cheap commodities and labour.

Apple's policy with their products is 100% correct:

1) Make good kit that lasts for years and is useful for years.
2) Minimize the use of pollutants
3) Optimize power efficiency (most Apple products are battery powered so see 2 above).

Digging up stuff from deep in the ground and pumping it in to our air and water is clearly stupid and threatens our existence, inventing new chemical compounds and releasing them uncontrolled in to the environment is also fraught with risk. I applaud the sensible use of the resources of the planet and do not accept that pollution is a given or should even be tolerated, pollution is not a prerequisite of development.

As regards politics Republican == Democrat, both serve the same masters. What we see is illusion, just like WWF wrestling. They collaborate beforehand, decide how to achieve the required outcome in an entertaining manner and then on with the show!

.
post #37 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by arlomedia View Post

I've never understood why people opposed to environmental protection policies regard them as some kind of left-wing conspiracy, so maybe you can explain this to me: who exactly would profit from inventing a threat from global warming?

Obviously China, which is communist, since that's where all the manufacturing jobs are anyway. This is all a ploy by the whole world to give all their money to China. After China has all the world's money, the rest of the world will simply switch currencies and give China a friendly handshake for giving them free stuff. The air will also be cleaner but that's irrelevant.
post #38 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post

Try this.

It was much warmer in the medieval warm period just a few hundred years ago.

CO2 in the atmosphere is a lagging indicator, when the planet warms from solar activity more CO2 from the oceans is released.

Research it, if that simple statement is true it is the end of the manmade global warming argument.

Manmade global warming is a red herring, if it was the problem it is made out to be it could be fixed very rapidly however various big powerful and monied interests would lose wealth and influence.

I don't agree that CO2 is a lagging indicator of warming. There is too much data which shows CO2 levels changing lockstep with the temperature. They can't say for sure if it caused the temperature to rise, or it was caused by the change in temperature.

I agree that it is a lofty goal however, to reduce their carbon footprint.
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iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 24" Dual Core 3.06 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 4
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post #39 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post

Try this.

It was much warmer in the medieval warm period just a few hundred years ago.

CO2 in the atmosphere is a lagging indicator, when the planet warms from solar activity more CO2 from the oceans is released.

Research it, if that simple statement is true it is the end of the manmade global warming argument.

...

.



Relevant, simplified article on CO2 as an indicator here.
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

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post #40 of 150
I totally agree with a greener apple

I want to support them more and more they are greener.

if they could leave China , their product would be a lot expensive, but I would try to still buy it. Because I would support ANY company leaving China. (well, if China changes his ways, of course it will become a moot point)

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Al Gore was never a problem for me. He did some goods. and beside, Apple is not lead by one man. but by a lof of people, and steve jobs is just the CEO.

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US citizen needs better health care.

it's an anomaly for a great country like yours to be a lot less efficient than European countries. You are more expensive and in the whole, us citizens get less care. Oo. You should be very surprise in you lived in Finland or France or Britain.

it's not new. it was true before bush, before clinton. it's one of the big transformation the USA refused to do. (why ? I can't fathom, your country is so efficient in economy, technology, culture, but health care ? no sir!)


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"Jobs is and has always been a democrat supporter. Clinton stayed at his house when Clinton's daughter graduated from Berkeley. Jobs actually also is an admirer of Gore who didn't invent the Internet, but was instrumental in sponsoring and passing legislation that allowed it to take hold.
"

true.

Jobs was always a democrat supporter. Some people even wanted him to join the democrate party and to be a politician. He refused, explaining he was happy with his job in computers and business.

if ideology is that important for you and you despise democrats ( ?? ), you have to stop buying apple products : NOW. just because of the big bad Steve Jobs (and Al Gore...houuuuu)

but maybe you should consider that first :

Apple is doing what is good for its business (and it's a good thing, it's the job of a good company)

Sometimes APPLE (not steve jobs, not the individual), the company, support democrats stuff, sometimes republicans ones, and Apple even donated for both parties. It all depends if Apple thinks a politician is right and useful.

It's really impressive, you can browse records of companies participation in politics. Ho I would like that in my own country... You can be proud of that : all is documented.

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in the end : I like what Apple is doing these days. there are still a lot of work to satisfy me completely.
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