Originally Posted by ruel24
Okay, I'm going to violate what I said previously...
Let's put something into perspective here: First, man's contribution of CO2 into the atmosphere is dwarfed
by the CO2 emitted by rotting vegitation and rotting corpses. That, is dwarfed by the CO2 emitted by the oceans. There has not been one shred of single proof that absolutely points to any sort of cause and effect relationship of CO2 and the temperature of the Earth. However, there has been overwhelming evidence pointing to a cause and effect relationship of the role of the Sun, solar winds, the Earth's orbital cycles, etc. to the temperature of the Earth.
Just because you are ignorant doesn't mean that the scientific community is too. The total CO_2 in circulation is not the issue, it's the increase of CO_2 in the atmosphere. Before the industrial era, the flow of CO_2 between air, sea and land was in balance. We are adding a small fraction over and above the amount the environment can absorb, so the atmospheric CO_2 level is increasing (nearly 40% since 1750 that's not a minor effect). The heat trapping effect of CO_2 has been known since the early 19th century, and measured reasonably accurately by Arrhenius
On top of that, CO2 is a marginal green house gas. The vast majority of the green house effect lies within water vapor.
True but irrelevant. The main greenhouse effect raises the Earth's average temperature enough that it isn't a ball of ice. We are concerned about an effect about 10% of that.
Combine that with how marginal, overall, the human contribution of CO2, and you have just about nothing. We are in no way shape or form causing ridiculous changes in the Earth's temperatures. As a matter of fact, its been reported that polar ice is actually thickening, not thinning. We're predicted to be at the very beginning of a long cooling period, based on solar cycles and the cycles of the earth's wobble on its axis and such. These are far more of an indicator of what long term trend the Earth is heading in than some questionable hypothesis that a marginal green house gas is somehow catastrophically changing our Earth. The Earth's temps have changed in huge swings over the course of its history, and this is nothing new. So why all the panic?
Wrong. North polar sea ice has been steadily thinning. Parts of the Antarctic are thickening but this is a localized effect, more than offset my ice loss elsewhere. Why all the panic, you ask. Possibly the fact that every mass extinction event was associated with a major climate swing? Possibly the fact that we have billions of people who can only be fed by organized agriculture under current conditions? Possibly the fact that the vast majority of major centres of population are within a few metres of sea level?
The Earth has seen much warmer and much cooler periods, yet life thrived. The polar bears were around in much warmer times and have survived, as have much of the animal kingdom we know today. On the contrary, not all of them survive drastic cooling periods quite as well. There is huge evidence that life actually flourished in warmer periods.
And most of it has since gone extinct.
To make it point blank, in the scheme of Mother Nature, we human beings are very insignificant. Our contribution of anything to the atmosphere is in no way changing anything at all. You can't trust your highly trained local Meteorologist to forecast the weather further out than one or two days, so why would you trust a bunch of politicians backed by a bunch of scientists looking to receive funding in an otherwise looked over area of science to predict our weather for the next 100 years?
Forecasting the weather is a totally different problem (working out the exact state of the system at a specific time) than long-range climate prediction (predicting how the long-term average will change). Climate and weather are usually modelled using totally different software.
Remember the Ozone Layer scare? Guess what? It turns out to be something that's a natural phenomenon... Now, we got stuck with R-45 instead of the much better R-12 refrigerant because people just insisted that we were killing the Earth, and supposedly had science to prove it.
You are a glutton for industry spin aimed at the ignorant, aren't you?
To just blindly think that we need to do something about it is naive. Leave Mother Nature alone. Every attempt green organizations have in rectifying something in nature have been short sighted and had adverse effects. Just leave it alone. Nature has a built-in self-repair mechanism, and it works much better than anything we've ever tried.
Yeah, right. It's called evolution. Creatures that destroy their own environment go extinct.
Ever since this "Global Warming" stuff started making a splash in the late 1980's and early 1990's, I've looked at the claims with open eyes and an open mind. At one time, I was on the whole bandwagon of being greener, and was almost a member of Greenpeace. But, when I looked at all the evidence spewed by both sides, and used a little common sense to decipher what seems to better explain things and what makes more sense, the climate change theorists began to look either pretty stupid or having a political agenda. This whole ordeal has made me rethink the entire green movement and has opened my eyes that most of it is not well thought out and a cover for a larger political agenda. Even Greenpeace founder Patrick Moore has publicly stated that the green movement has been hijacked by extremist who's agenda has more to do with class warfare.
You mean to say you have failed to discern the political agenda of the other side? I for one would be only to pleased if all the science was wrong because I have direct experience of campaigning in other science vs. vested interests battles (tobacco regulation, HIV doesn't cause aids) and spreading this sort of disinformation about science is extremely easy. All you need to do is find people who are politically inclined not to believe the science, and they will believe anything the denial side says.
Unfortunately, nature is not gullible. If we continue to behave as if the world works the way we want it to, not the way it really is, we will go the way of the dinosaurs.