Microsoft considers extending Zune services to Apple users - Page 2

Do you want to retract that statement ' They are successful because windows users decide to use them'

What was the reason windows users decided to purchase iPod/iPhone and use the iTunes store.

Again it has nothing to do with operating system, it could be OS2, Linux or even Souliisoul windows being the market leader. People buy iPod/iPhone because its the best product out there and seamless with whatever operating system on their PC.

Tell me why Zune never took off, since it is MS product and loyal windows users should have bought the product.

I do agree with one point, it useless bashing MS, since there mistakes are Apple's gains. MS keep up the good work

In what way has Microsoft tried to kill competition illegally? That's a pretty bold statement. And I suppose Apple's draconian control over the iPhone and app store, able to ban applications they consider "duplicating iPhone functionality" isn't stifling innovation or competition?

Apple does more to kill competition than Microsoft ever had. The different being that Apple isn't considered a monopoly, so they're allowed to do whatever they want, no matter how disgusting they may be. (And yes, I say that as an iPhone user).

come lets not get carried away here, MS were the ones that were sued for their internet browser behavior, which affected numerous companies.

MS still has a great lead on Apple when it comes to killing competition, but I understand your point.

Because the Zune was a horrible product when it first came out, much like Windows Vista was, and still is, a horrible operating system. It was also only sold in two countries, the US and Canada.

The part you're mistaken of, my friend, is this concept of loyalty to ANY of these companies. I love the Mac and I own an iPhone, but that doesn't mean I'll ever be loyal to Apple. For one, I *hate* iTunes, but I learn to use and put up with it because its the only software that will talk to my iPhone. Speaking of which, I *hate* how restrictive the App Store is, but I feel that its still superior to any other mobile platform on the market (for now).

The same attitude fits Microsoft. I *hate* Vista, but love Windows 7. I think the Zune HD is a cool device, when previous generations made me yawn. I also love the Zune Pass subscription idea, even if the Zune software itself has much to be desired.

I'm not a fan of Apple or Microsoft. I'm a fan of products that work and are fantastic. The iPhone is a wonderful device. Windows 7 and the Zune are excellent products. But that doesn't mean that I'll automatically love the next product either company comes up with.

Microsoft was never sued for their internet browser. Ever. In fact, Microsoft has taken great care to make Windows 7 more modal, allowing users to completely uninstall any part of the operating system, including IE.

Hell, Microsoft caved to the European Union when they never really had to. So now, PC vendors can decide which browser to bundle with their computers (and which to take out), as well as presenting a ballot box for users to be able to download and install the latest version of any 3rd party browser.


Now look at Apple. You get.... Safari and iTunes. That's it. Whether you like it or not.... Which I certainly do not

Your just one of those people that believe you are elite because you use an Apple product which is the single biggest downfall to Apple.

Not sure what is so funny the fact is if it wasn't for Windows users ipod sales would drop 90%. All you have to do is look at PC market share and anyone can come to the conclusion that without Windows users Apple product growth would be very limited.

I never said the ipod or iphone was a bad product, which is why Windows users use them. The Zune most likely never took off because it came to the market too late, after Apple had already been around a long time in that market. Its not rocket science. I know guys like you hold onto ipod sales for dear life because its the only thing Apple had lead in for 30 years.

What are you going on about?
If you don't like Safari, uninstall it and install something else.
If you don't like iTunes, uninstall it and install something else.

The Apple HiFis have a startlingly good sound. Frankly I wish I had bought one while they were still in production. They have digital audio in, so they aren't ever going to go obsolete -- they are ideal for deployment in different parts of your house, connected to an Airport Express via optical digital.

As for the Zune HD, judging by the Amazon sales charts, no it is not a hit. Very simple reason -- Apple's iPod Touch has double the capacity at 64GB, plus the App store. Microsoft is as usual competing with last year's model.

I have been in the IT industry for over 23 years. And knew MS when they were a small 8 man band. Most Court records are probably not available, despite the internet, for you to see how many times they were taken to Court and lost for cheating, illegal business activities, stealing code, (they attempted to steal QuickTime code), when Apple took them to Court once. A lot of people seems to forget what MS did and still do. I can't remember MS winning any award for technical innovation, happy to be corrected if you can find one. Apple invented the iPhone and iPod Touch, so naturally want to promote their products over others. Google launched their Android plus store, Nokia did the same. They all copied ideas/products. Thats fine. So don't say its draconian, when you have a choice if you don't want to buy Apple products. MS have been copying for over 20 years, that will never stop. Well, sometimes copy-cats can't catch up, no matter what they try.

So now your comparing a gaming device to a music device- very uncool.
The Apple HiFi is notorious for having the sound of a SOny no a JVC BOOMBOX- get real. And extremely overpriced and yes-now obsolete. What model last year had OLED? What model last year had FMHD?
Why would you ever use Amazon to track electronics in the first place? AS if most people buy electronincs from Amazon?
Did you have a liquid lunch?

Not always illegal but many times they settles with big payouts.

Microsoft - A History of Anticompetitive Behavior and Consumer Harm:
http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalve...hoicepaper.pdf

Just like in the thread where you brought up Al Gore out of nowhere, you bring up the Apple HiFi out of nowhere. And similarly, you blame and insult someone else for making the comparison. You know, I really try not to make personal attacks, but dude, is it any wonder why so many people on this forum find you annoying?

Apple does the same thing. Settlements like those are all part of doing business. You read about it on this site all the time, about some new lawsuit against Apple for violating a patent and Apple settling out of court. In fact, I think there was one posted just today about that!


Believe me, I do. But I was referring to the Mac, specifically. Safari and iTunes/QuickTime are hooked into the operating system with no apparent way of removing them. Much like IE on Windows, I have to learn to simply remove all shortcuts to Safari.


You've mistaken my intents. You're correct in stating that I don't know all of Microsoft's past, but you can't have me believe that Apple doesn't have a few skeletons in its closet that they wouldn't want to be reminded of, either.

So what if Microsoft has a shady past? What company doesn't? I look at where these companies stand today and what products they have to offer. Windows 7? Awesome operating system. The iPhone? Fantastic device. Just because I hate iTunes and the restrictions of the app store doesn't mean I don't love the product they all tie into. I love my iPhone, which is why I'm especially critical of it. I want it to be a more open, transparent device, and competition from those other services are going to drive it in that direction. If, at some point, I feel there's a better alternative, like an open android market, I'll certainly move on then. I'll go with the best!

Exactly. I don't like MS any more than the next person here. I feel they have poor business practices. However, when they do make good products (and yes, it DOES happen), then I praise those products. I also don't like Apple for their business practices (being very anti-competitive and closed) but when they have a good product, I'll praise it too. I like the hardware in the iPod Touch and think the device is wonderful. I however hate the OS and its limitations it puts on the hardware.

But yeah, if MS were to release the App, I'm sure people would do exactly as you said, install and delete without trying JUST to give MS a One Star... which has the effect of nothing against the company they hate so much.

BTW, after reading your other posts on the matter, I'm very glad someone have views like me around here.

Perhaps you should research a little company called Spyglass that Microsoft "partnered" with.

And perhaps you should realize the reason why Microsoft stands to benefit from browser bundling, namely, defaulting the search to Bing and their default page being MSN.com, both with benefit them just like Google benefits from it being the default search engine and home page in Mozilla's FireFox.

Dude - my response was to the poster prior to that comment who stated that last years Zunes were being used a door stops. READ dude and post something, anything, that's thread related rather than try to take me on.
Al Gore sits on the Board of Directors at Apple Inc. - haven't you READ that anywhere?

Come listed to a blinkered fanboy in full BS mode!

Try using the Zune software. It's very, very nice, and far better than the buggy bloatware that is iTunes.

Facts are facts, and poor sales rankings are a sure indicator that a product is a flop. Short-supplying a product is deceptive, and something MS must have learned from those iBiquity scammers.

I used Windows 3.0 and 3.1, and while it was good, it sucked compared to a Mac.
Win9x should have never been released, but you know, they had to come up with something while NT waited for more powerful hardware to come up (and it wasn't till 3 versions later, win2k, with 3.1 being the first, 4 being the second, that it was worth using).

And this has nothing to do with the Apple HiFi.....which no one ever mentioned until YOU brought it up.


Yes, and this has nothing to do with the other thread either and no one ever mentioned his name until YOU did.

If you can't see the connection between one obsolete product vs the other than it's not worth explaining to you. Good bye.

P.S.- I refuse to discuss the other thread's posts you're trying to egg me on for the sake of AI readers. Thank you.

No, Safari and iTunes are not hooked into the operating system. It's called dragging them to the trash. QuickTime, which you didn't mention before, is another matter. iTunes and QT are not the same thing.


On a Mac, not much to learn, just drag Safari off the Dock and *poof*, it's gone.

It'll be a cold day in hell....

What hasn't Microsoft thought of? Gosh, I'm impressed.

Well I suppose more choice is good, even if relatively few people will avail themselves of some of them.

Actually, Mozilla benefits more from Google by making them the default browser. Every time you make a search in that box, Mozilla gets paid. That's one possible reason why Google came out with their own browser, Chrome, to take back some of those searches while pushing for more advanced web standards (again, that benefit Google's future products).

Mozilla would use Bing.com as their default search if they thought their marketshare as a browser would grow, and they would get more money from Bing than from Google.


So, that's it? The product's been out for a month, available in only one country in the entire world, and someone with *NO* sales figures, *NO* marketing strategy, and *NO* indicators for the upcoming Christmas season has determined "Oh, its over. Its a flop. Guess we should give up now."

I'm going to assume you're ignorant about the business world, because calling you stupid would be insulting. Depending on what figures you're looking at, the Mac has 2-3% worldwide marketshare. Would you consider the Mac a flop as well? After all, it has only 2-3% of the total PC market. Its' *GOT* to be a flop, right?

...right?

geez. it is funny how those that do not know history love to show their ignorance. try watching a program called "triumph of the nerds", you just might learn something as to who is an innovator and a copycat crapware vendor.

Remember those lines around the block, when the iPhone first came out - that's called market BUZZ, and I'm not talking about HD Radio's IBUZZ!

Bold, or not, they have both tried and succeeded in killing anything resembling competition for years.

But if you were never an exhibitor at the MacWorld Boston or San Francisco, you may not have experienced it first hand.

That's removing Safari from the OS?

When you look up the word Bulls**t, it says "see Microsoft". PC users are full of BS. Can't handle the truth. Carry on using your bloated Windows (a copy of OS X), 8 billion viruses (uniquely Windows only), malware (windows only), crashes, file incompatibility, software incompatibility, even certain MS products aren't backward or forward compatible. The huge extra cost in staff wages to run networks, solve IT problems etc. iTunes is still nearly 90% of what it was when it was originally released. So not sure where you get bloatware from. It just works, unlike 90% of MS software. If Windows and Ms Office aren't bloatware, I don't know what is.

An ex PC User.

I recall a similar incident in Jonestown, South America - something about people waiting in line for a drink of -what was it now?
Oh whatever.

No it's not.

It looks like someone needs to take their own advice and READ what statement I was actually responding to.

Hey, I'm not saying that the Zune HD is a hit or a success. I wouldn't even call the Xbox 360 a success, given the millions of dollars lost in RMA money due to red rings of death. Other than the desktop, Microsoft doesn't exactly equate to astounding success in the other fields it tries go enter.

However, the fact that they ARE doing all these other things is important in and of itself. Live cloud services and gaming and Zune media - they're doing anything they can do to stay relevant. The reason IBM became the almost-unknown services company that they are today is because they were once Top Dog and never felt they needed to change. Microsoft knows that a day will come when the operating system will become less relevant than it is today. Perhaps not for many decades, but it will happen. And when it does, they'll be more flexible to change than other companies who aren't getting involved now.

That's why I love the idea of Zune on my iPhone. Apple makes the hardware, Microsoft provides the service. Both companies are doing *exactly* what they're best at, and I as a consumer get all the benefits.

Lol, it just seems so obvious to me. Why would anyone be loyal to any corporate entity.

Dude, I use Macs. I love them, frankly. And guess what? You *still* have malware, crashes, file incompaitibility, software incompatibility, even certain *APPLE* products are backward or forward compatible (see iMovie). Lol, Macs are simply computers, first and foremost. The operating system you're on won't mean much if you accidentally fall for a phishing scam in your email.

Windows 7 is far ahead of its Vista cousin by leaps and bounds, and that claim is backed by nearly every person who's used it. I often hear long-time Apple users praise how well Windows 7 functions, and how refreshing it is to see Microsoft take a different approach with its OS, opting for performance and stability over new features. True, there are things the Mac does better than Windows, but at this point, its almost a matter of personal taste. Do you prefer this OS, or this one?

Apple has done plenty of things some could consider "copying" from Microsoft - it isn't just a one-way street. Don't believe me? Ask anyone who had used the Zune 3.0 software for a while and have them take a look at iTunes 9.0. They'll tell you how very "Zune-like" the new iTunes has become

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fanboy

Windows 3 wasn't a patch on Mac OS 7 I'm afraid (I used both extensively). Windows 95 was a catchup (and in some ways leap-frog) of Mac OS 8/9. Mac OS X raised the bar even further beyond what Microsoft can achieve.

Fire up an old Mac OS 9 system,, and see how much further the desktop paradigm has been pushed by Microsoft. Not much really. A Windows user would be far more comfortable with Mac OS 9 than they would be with Windows 3.

In a certain way (squint your eyes), you could even say that the iPhone/iPod Touch interface is simply a logical extension of Mac OS Classic (especially when you figure in the At Ease icon menu system).

How about another history lesson? Microsoft lied, cheated and stole their way to a monopoly position, with not a superior product but a very mediocre one. People didn't buy it because they liked it so much but because they didn't have a choice. Nothing to be particularly proud of... Btw IBM was one of the companies screwed by Microsoft.

Try Billions!


Unknown? Maybe to you... IBM is a huge healthy company that knew how to continue to grow by adapting.


Clearly Microsoft is "best" with software given everything else they've touched has failed miserably. Apple is not a hardware company, it's a company that knows how to integrate software and hardware to make a compelling device. And the consumer gets all the benefits.