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Mossberg: Windows 7 narrows the gap with Apple's Mac OS X

post #1 of 465
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Walt Mossberg of The Wall Street Journal has given Microsoft's Windows 7 a glowing review, noting that Microsoft's latest operating system is still behind Apple's Mac OS X, but not by much.

A known Apple advocate, Mossberg's positive take on Windows 7 is a big change from Windows XP and Vista, both of which the columnist felt were vastly inferior to Mac OS X.

"In recent years, I, like many other reviewers, have argued that Apple’s Mac OS X operating system is much better than Windows," he said. "That’s no longer true. I still give the Mac OS a slight edge because it has a much easier and cheaper upgrade path; more built-in software programs; and far less vulnerability to viruses and other malicious software, which are overwhelmingly built to run on Windows."

He continued: "Now, however, it’s much more of a toss-up between the two rivals. Windows 7 beats the Mac OS in some areas, such as better previews and navigation right from the taskbar, easier organization of open windows on the desktop and touch-screen capabilities. So Apple will have to scramble now that the gift of a flawed Vista has been replaced with a reliable, elegant version of Windows."

Windows 7 is set to debut on Oct. 22. A Home Premium upgrade will cost $120 ($200 standalone); Professional upgrade will cost $200 ($300 standalone); and Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade will run $220 ($320 standalone).

It's launch follows the debut of Apple's latest operating system, which was released at the end of August. Mossberg said both offerings from the rival companies are more evolutionary than revolutionary.

In his August review of Snow Leopard, Apple's latest operating system upgrade, Mossberg said the upgrade is a decent improvement, but not a "must-have upgrade." He said the $29 product is priced accordingly, because Mac OS X 10.6 is not a "typical Apple lust-provoking product."

In the Windows 7 review, Mossberg drew many parallels between Windows 7 and Snow Leopard. He said the new taskbar is similar to the Mac OS X dock, but improves on the concept in some ways -- namely Aero Peek, which he said is "more natural and versatile" than Snow Leopard's Dock Expose. The Aero Peek feature allows users to mouse over an open window in the preview screen, which makes all other windows on the desktop transparent.

He also praised the new OS for being faster than Windows Vista, nagging users for security concerns less than its predecessor, and offering a wide range of software compatibility.

But there are a few key areas where Windows 7 falls behind Snow Leopard, Mossberg said. For one, Microsoft's OS "still isn't quite as natural" as it is on Mac, though it's an improvement from Vista.

And though Windows 7 is faster, his MacBook Pro still started and restarted faster than most of the PCs he tested. "But the speed gap has narrowed considerably," he said.
post #2 of 465
nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll

also how is this apple news?

people that compare snow leopard to windows 7 are angry pc users which have never owned / operated a mac and have no idea of what they're talking about, and were paid big amounts of money to write good reviews, like this mossberg character
post #3 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll

For fucks sake, Mossberg is one of Apple's biggest fans in print. Perhaps he gave Windows 7 a good review because its actually good? Posts like yours give websites like this a bad name.
post #4 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll

also how is this apple news?

people that compare snow leopard to windows 7 are angry pc users which have never owned / operated a mac and have no idea of what they're talking about, and were paid big amounts of money to write good reviews, like this mossberg character

Microsoft's payroll? This guy is probably the most pro-mac reporter out there. I think it was even mentioned in the article that he is a strong mac advocate. Do you really think that Microsoft is bribing reporters at The Wall Street Journal for good reviews?

You just can't help yourself can you?
post #5 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll

also how is this apple news?

people that compare snow leopard to windows 7 are angry pc users which have never owned / operated a mac and have no idea of what they're talking about, and were paid big amounts of money to write good reviews, like this mossberg character

Oh my... how could you possibly be more wrong about big Moss?
post #6 of 465
What's really flawed is Microsoft's pricing. When OSX is compared with Windows, it's usually compared against the Ultimate version of Windows which costs $400 for the upgrade, and not the Home which is by far the most popular. The Home version is a feature crippled version with many pre-installed trial software which sometimes is impossible to un-install if you don't have the exact know how, one example of that is McAfee. Also the Home version does not include security features like the Professional or Ultimate.
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post #7 of 465
Expect yesterday's and last week's analyst predictions to now downgrade the target of APPL.
post #8 of 465
First the ZuneHD and now this!
Be afraid, be very afraid!
post #9 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

What's really flawed is Microsoft's pricing. When OSX is compared with Windows, it's usually compared against the Ultimate version of Windows which costs $400 for the upgrade, and not the Home which is by far the most popular. The Home version is a feature crippled version with many pre-installed trial software which sometimes is impossible to un-install if you don't have the exact know how, one example of that is McAfee. Also the Home version does not include security features like the Professional or Ultimate.

Don't they make most of their money from corporations anyway so I really don't think this matters.
post #10 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

For fucks sake, Mossberg is one of Apple's biggest fans in print. Perhaps he gave Windows 7 a good review because its actually good? Posts like yours give websites like this a bad name.

Where Quadra's and Abster2core's? I'm ready for my daily entertainment NOW!
Throw in a little brucep too- he keeps it real.
post #11 of 465
I wonder if Windows 7 has flash problems like OSX?
post #12 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

What's really flawed is Microsoft's pricing. When OSX is compared with Windows, it's usually compared against the Ultimate version of Windows which costs $400 for the upgrade, and not the Home which is by far the most popular. The Home version is a feature crippled version with many pre-installed trial software which sometimes is impossible to un-install if you don't have the exact know how, one example of that is McAfee. Also the Home version does not include security features like the Professional or Ultimate.

That's not the upgrade pricing you are talking about - that's the full version.

119.99 for home premium ugrade
199.99 for pro upgrade
219.99 for ultimate upgrade

I agree that their pricing is too high, but the only things missing from the home version are xp emulation, bitlocker (hard drive compression and encryption) on the fly language switching and some networking features mostly relevant to corporate networks.

Most of that pre-installed software is installed by pc manufacturers, it's not on the retail win disks. McAfee is easy to uninstall if you don't want it.
post #13 of 465
Instead of spending time on the tablet, Apple should:

1) make sure all major software producers release their software to take advantage of GCD and OpenCL
2) release some updates to their professional line of software (Aperture) so that they still have an edge in this regard
3) Apple should help more some specialized software houses to make their software better for Mac (ArchiCAD Cocoa rewrite) or to port it to Mac (AutoCAD).

Then, after that, they should release some new MacPros and iMacs.

After all these steps are completed they can create the iTablet, keeping one thing in mind:
- NO CONTENT = NO SALES
So, for instance, if you don't have a movie and video store in 99% of the countries you shouldn't be surprised that the Apple TV is still in some sort of beta limbo...

Microsoft Windows 7 getting better? This is a piece of news that should affect every Mac enthusiast who doesn't wear blindfolds.
Apple has an edge, in my opinion, in a combination of factors, OSX being only one of them. But it is true that Snow Leopard brought only under the hood changes, which is a good idea in my opinion, but it is also true that if nobody (software) profits from these changes they are as good as useless. iCal and Mail have never been the most resource intensive tasks my MBP performs.. Happy to see they are faster, but ArchiCAD and Aperture in my case are the two that might benefit MUCH more from being 64bit and GCD compatible. So that is something Apple has to fix next.
post #14 of 465
Windows 7 is really good for a Windows product, and I would say that it has closed a lot of the gap between it and OSX. On the other hand Snow Leopard hasn't really been able to show its strengths yet as most macs are still dual core and not many programs take advantage of Grand Central.

However, within two years, mac users can pretty much expect a new feature packed OS based on the solid foundation that Snow Leopard provides. Windows on the other hand, based on past history may not see an upgrade for a while and Windows 7 is already the feature packed update based on the foundation of Vista.
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post #15 of 465
I totally agree that Microsoft did a good job on Windows 7. Aero Peek is amazing and I hope that Apple implements something closer to this in the next version of OSX. However, Windows still doesn't have a Spaces-like feature; that's a really big negative to me. Microsoft just needs to work out the details on installtion and marketing. They need to go to ONE version (Ultimate), that contains both the x86 and 64 versions, and price it reasonably. No more than $150 for the full version and less than $100 for the upgrade. I guarantee they would sell more copies this way and would see less pirating. This does good things for both Microsoft bottom line and (more importantly) their image.
post #16 of 465
So, has Microsoft got rid of the registry in Windows 7? If not, Windows is still a piece of shit, IMHO.
post #17 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I wonder if Windows 7 has flash problems like OSX?

OS X doesn't have a Flash problem, FLASH has a Flash problem. Apple is just trying to leverage its position to promote HTML 5 as opposed to a bloated proprietary format.
They may fail, but I applaud the effort. I can live without the ads and porn on my iPhone.

Like the old joke.... I don't have a drinking problem. I drink, I fall down, no problem.
post #18 of 465
But "still behind" is still behind.
post #19 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

For fucks sake, Mossberg is one of Apple's biggest fans in print. Perhaps he gave Windows 7 a good review because its actually good? Posts like yours give websites like this a bad name.

THANK YOU. i'm an apple fanboy too, but i'm not an idiot. Windows 7 is good. my shares of AAPL are nervous that several switchers will switch back. MSFT will make a killing on win7 because every corporation in the world that's still on XP will upgrade, and that's a shit-ton of corporations.
post #20 of 465
I used Windows 7 on my Macbook and found it to be more cumbersome than OS X. Expose (despite being nerfed in Snow Leopard) is better than aero peek, especially when hot corners are in use. The Windows interface is still way more cluttered than OS X on my 13" screen.

It seems:

Windows is better for bigger screens
OS X is better for smaller screens

... interface wise at least.

The other benefits of each operating system, compatibility vs. fluidity, haven't really changed significantly with these latest iterations. I still prefer OS X and have gotten rid of my partition. Both OSs are more similar than ever, especially since most computing happens on the web these days. I'm just glad Windows is finally competitive and looking forward to 10.7 and Windows 8.
post #21 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

OS X doesn't have a Flash problem, FLASH has a Flash problem. Apple is just trying to leverage its position to promote HTML 5 as opposed to a bloated proprietary format.
They may fail, but I applaud the effort. I can live without the ads and porn on my iPhone.

Like the old joke.... I don't have a drinking problem. I drink, I fall down, no problem.

But why does flash work so well on Windows? From flash perpective OSX is bloated that's why the CPU is grinded to a halt. No such problem when running Windows from what I hear.
post #22 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

Microsoft's payroll? This guy is probably the most pro-mac reporter out there. I think it was even mentioned in the article that he is a strong mac advocate. Do you really think that Microsoft is bribing reporters at The Wall Street Journal for good reviews?

You just can't help yourself can you?

yes i do think they're paying for good reviews, don't you know what kind of corporation they are?

have you used windows 7? it's pathetic, slow, bloated, still has a registry, no spaces-like feature (which they'll steal from apple in their next version)...
post #23 of 465
I'm really not looking forward to Win 7. I did have a very brief (like an hour or so) play around with the public beta, and (I am pleased to admit) I have only ever spent a couple of hours with Vista, on other peoples PCs (one installing an ADSL Modem, and another knocking up a Word template). I'm still straight up XP! My workplace is still happily on XP, and I got a Mac just as Tiger was replaced for home use.

Let's pretend I never saw either, because this is largely the case - when all my XP friends and family upgrade (as I fear they will) and start with the help requests - I'm going to be stuffed! I imagine the difference from XP > 7 is huge. Let's hope the learning curve is as good as people say It sounds much better, but I think I'm going to be too rusty to be able to help people out much - possibly a good thing?
post #24 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlenu View Post

So, has Microsoft got rid of the registry in Windows 7? If not, Windows is still a piece of shit, IMHO.

No, and you're absolutely right, the registry is the root of all evil and most of Windows' problems. They need a clean-sheet rewrite that gets rid of the disaster once and for all.
post #25 of 465
Quote:
Walt Mossberg of The Wall Street Journal has given Microsoft's Windows 7 a glowing review, noting that Microsoft's latest operating system is still behind Apple's Mac OS X, but not by much.

A known Apple advocate, Mossberg's positive take on Windows 7 is a big change from Windows XP and Vista, both of which the columnist felt were vastly inferior to Mac OS X.


Walt Mossberg is just the latest reviewer to praise Windows 7. But the biggest threat to Apple comes from its unwillingness to offer desktop computers with a Nehalem quad-core desktop CPU, a Blu-Ray drive and monitor for less than $1,000.

Unless Apple offers competitive computers with competitive features at a competitive price, Macs don't stand much of a chance against full featured Windows 7 computer desktops from HP or Dell. That's not to mention the upcoming flood of affordable, new netbooks which compare favourably with traditional notebooks.

The greed of Steve Jobs will be the demise of Apple.


\\\
post #26 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll

Put down the crackpipe. He's as likely to be on MS's payroll as you are to be a rocket scientist.

Quote:
also how is this apple news?

Because it's comparing W7 to SL. Did you miss that little detail?
post #27 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffhrsn View Post

But "still behind" is still behind.

But still way ahead when it comes to numbers. The question isn't is it good enough to please hardcore mac users, its whether its good enough to keep users on board and maybe even convince a few to come back. In my opinion, its pretty close. Its fast, stable, and usable. The dashboard and expose clones could use a little work and the registry needs to go, but that's about it.
post #28 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Walt Mossberg is just the latest reviewer to praise Windows 7. But the biggest threat to Apple comes from its unwillingness to offer desktop computers with a Nehalem quad-core desktop CPU, a Blu-Ray drive and monitor for less than $1,000.

Unless Apple offers competitive computers with competitive features at a competitive price, Macs don't stand much of a chance against full featured Windows 7 computer desktops from HP or Dell. That's not to mention the upcoming flood of affordable, new netbooks which compare favourably with traditional notebooks.



\\\

I agree - Apple lost their boarding pass to the netbook cruiseship- that boat left sail a long time ago. Netbooks are this current generation's iMac.
post #29 of 465
I guess Steve won't be inviting Walt to this year's Apple Christmas party.
post #30 of 465
I have been using Windows 7 at work for 3 weeks now. It is impressive and I could see myself using it at home, but it comes down to preference.

Windows 7 is yet another major GUI change for Windows and there's some things to like and some not. Too much eye-candy/visual effects can be distracting (you can tone that down in Windows 7 though).

There are many things that make the Mac OSX a great experience and even Windows 7 doesn't get there. The included apps in Mac OSX are all the difference.
post #31 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

have you used windows 7? it's pathetic, slow, bloated, still has a registry, no spaces-like feature (which they'll steal from apple in their next version)...

have u actually used it? i found it quite fast (compared to vista and even XP).

and about the SPACES.... well, if MS is evil for stealing it from Apple, then Apple is even worse for stealing it from linux. it's been there for ages!

but... one other point. Yes WIN7 is quite good. But since soooo many users are still on XP out there, those reports should mention the differences between XP and win 7 and not so much in comparison with vista. most people think that vista sucks. so if win 7 is "known" to be a step forward from vista, that doesn't make it shine much in most people's eyes.

(just my 2 cents)
post #32 of 465
COMPETITION IS GOOD. But Apple Mac market share must boost to 25% to be a real competitor with Windows. Hopefully, the Apple Tablet will have the full Mac OS X inside (touch version). Then the Mac could beat Windows once and for all.
post #33 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

THANK YOU. i'm an apple fanboy too, but i'm not an idiot. Windows 7 is good. my shares of AAPL are nervous that several switchers will switch back. MSFT will make a killing on win7 because every corporation in the world that's still on XP will upgrade, and that's a shit-ton of corporations.

You nailed it: "Windows 7 is good".

Being good is not enough to compare Windows to Mac OS X. Granted Windows comes from a long way, from horribly outdated (XP) to complete crap (Vista) to, finally, good (7). Trouble is, Tiger is great, Leopard is simply awesome, and Snow Leopard is such a refinement from top to bottom of an already awesome product it's hard to find words. Snowy is built on such strong foundations that it'll blow everything out of the waters once software leverage its internal mechanics. Everything is fast, smooth, natural, and there are so many tools and sane entry points to control the computer and make it do precisely what you want (text input, keyboard shortcuts, applescript, automator, services, unix, this is endless...) without resorting to dirty hacks.

Anyway that's good news, as it will finally stop being downright painful to simply use a Windows machine.
post #34 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I have been using Windows 7 at work for 3 weeks now. It is impressive and I could see myself using it at home, but it comes down to preference.

Windows 7 is yet another major GUI change for Windows and there's some things to like and some not. Too much eye-candy/visual effects can be distracting (you can tone that down in Windows 7 though).

There are many things that make the Mac OSX a great experience and even Windows 7 doesn't get there. The included apps in Mac OSX are all the difference.

Well said. Its great for those of use who have to ALSO use windows. It's still not a mac, but its pretty damn good.
post #35 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluenix View Post

have u actually used it? i found it quite fast (compared to vista and even XP).

and about the SPACES.... well, if MS is evil for stealing it from Apple, then Apple is even worse for stealing it from linux. it's been there for ages!

Who stole the task bar from Microsoft and named it a DOCK?
post #36 of 465
Simply because Windows has a whole bunch of internal problems that get cancelled out by the problems of Flash

In Mac's case, the OS doesnt have any problems. Hence, only Flash poses the problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

But why does flash work so well on Windows? From flash perpective OSX is bloated that's why the CPU is grinded to a halt. No such problem when running Windows from what I hear.
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post #37 of 465
Only took MS nine years and they still aren't there.

And when Apple reveals its next OS, MS will have more catching up to do. Oh well.

With Apple in the same space as you are, being "good enough" is never enough.
post #38 of 465
First off: This is not APPLE news.
The only real part of this that can be construed as Apple news, is that an Apple fan wrote a good review of an MS product! Yikes!

Glad to see an Apple fan write like this, saying "You know what, Windows 7 is pretty good!" I myself was impressed by Windows 7. It ran a heck of a lot faster on my Atom based HTPC than Vista (by leaps and bounds!) and significantly more stable. Oh how I loathe Vista, but I can't wait for Windows 7 to be released.
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post #39 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Only took MS nine years and they still aren't there.

And when Apple reveals its next OS, MS will have more catching up to do. Oh well.

With Apple in the same space as you are, being "good enough" is never enough.

WAlt Mossberg, Apple's #1 crack pusher, would disagree with you- you obviously stopped reading the whole article.
post #40 of 465
My school has Windows 7 Professional available right now for students under their student software program. I downloaded and installed the x64 version with VMWare Fusion 2 on my MacBook Pro. Honestly, I haven't had much time to play with the thing, but I don't find it very different than Vista. The start bar is redesigned, and they managed not to rename and re-hide administrative tools like network and display configuration (which is what pissed me off the most about the move from XP to Vista). But I just don't see how anyone can conclude that Windows 7 is a vast improvement over Vista, not to mention one that puts it almost shoulder to shoulder with OS X.

I put some screenshots up on my Flickr page. Those annoying warnings are still there. I got freaking stopped and asked if I was sure I wanted to trust Adobe when installing flash. I downloaded Packet Tracer from Cisco's website, and when I tried to install the program Windows 7, for some reason, won't recognized the .exe file as valid. If I can't run Packet Tracer, Windows 7 is freaking worthless. The only reason why I'm keeping it on my MacBook Pro is so that if someone I know calls me with an issue, I can research it on my end without having to drive to their house.

Mossberg says Snow Leopard wasn't a "must-have" upgrade, even at $30. Well Windows 7 isn't a "must-have" upgrade at over $100 for people who already have Vista. I could see paying full price and upgrading from XP, but not from Vista. It would be a waste of money. If my school didn't offer Windows 7 to students for free, and Windows wasn't running the $30 offer for students on win741.com, I wouldn't even think of buying that operating system.

How the hell is an .exe file "not a valid win32 application?"


Fewer security warnings? I'm not a child. I shouldn't have to hunt for settings to turn this kind of crap off.
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