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Mossberg: Windows 7 narrows the gap with Apple's Mac OS X - Page 6

post #201 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Can't both operating systems just get along? They both work well for the crowds. It's like Ford vs. Chevy.

That argument would work if this forum wasn't full of crazy people.
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post #202 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by YipYipYipee View Post

We will simply have different perspectives on what "runs well" on a given vintage PC, as we did not declare what application is being used on the system as a reference (e.g. office vs more graphic intensive applications).

As to "value", I maintain the opinion that Apple is still the better value-for-money proposition, as I failed to mention the "Apple Experience", for me, is much better than with Microsoft and a given PC manufacturer.

Well then you made my argument for me - it all comes down to personal opinion and taste, as well as what is important to you. You value the Apple experience in how all their software integrates together. That works perfectly for you. I prefer to be a bit more open than what Apple typically allows me, so I aim for solutions that will work across many platforms (Windows, Linux and the Mac). Again, that's just my opinion.

If all you need is a stable machine that surfs the web and lets you watch YouTube every so often, a cheap Windows 7 PC is all you need. In regards to the now 'ancient' Dell Dimension 2400, that PC belongs to my mother, who needs are vastly different from my own. If it were my machine, I would definitely buy new hardware as I have a need for it. But for her, as long as the thing boots up in a reasonable amount of time (usually under 1 minute on Windows 7) and doesn't bombard her with error windows or popups, its more than suitable for her needs.

The performance difference between Vista and Windows 7 are most apparent on older hardware. Though *obviously* the operating system won't make the computer itself run any faster, the fact remains that Windows 7 plays much nicer on older equipment than Vista could hope for. That's especially appealing to businesses, who realize the reduced cost of support and increase productivity would more than pay for the upgrade even on older, existing machines.

I'll make this point again, because I feel it is an important one. If I wanted to get my existing workstation that is about 5-6 years old running with all the benefits of Windows 7, I can do so. If, however, I wanted to bring some of the new speed improvements and exchange support for a friends Powerbook G4 found only in Snow Leopard.... well, they're out of luck, even those the laptop is only 4 years old. They'd have to buy a brand new machine, whereas my Windows PC worked just fine.
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post #203 of 465
"I still give the Mac OS a slight edge because it has a much easier and cheaper upgrade path; more built-in software programs; and far less vulnerability to viruses and other malicious software, which are overwhelmingly built to run on Windows."
He continued: "Now, however, it’s much more of a toss-up between the two rivals.."

How is this a "toss up"? After Pogue got called out for his objectivity since he's also known as a fanboy, Mossberg, like Leo Laporte, is now over compensating by giving W7 glowing ass kissing.
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post #204 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

WRONG- Apple has not had a dock since 1988 in its OS. No more wasting my time.

OS X didn't originate from Apple. What is so hard to understand about that? It did, however, originate from a company that was lead by Steve Jobs.

You were wrong to begin with, that's all there is to say. End of discussion.
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post #205 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Windows 7 also means no iLife.

But you do get Windows Live Essentials, which is a pretty competent suite. And its free
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post #206 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Apple didn't- NEXTSTEP did.
Cannot you READ?

Apple owns NextSTEP. Apple is Steve Jobs (to a certain extent). Steve Jobs created NextSTEP. Mac OS X is NextSTEP, pretty much. At least when someone corrects me I have the decency to apologize. Your blind arguments are ridiculous.
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post #207 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

L-WTF?
Apple didn't- NEXTSTEP did.
Cannot you READ?

No, you inferred that Apple had stolen the idea from Windows, when it was Windows who had stolen the idea from NeXT. That's the truth of it, and you were wrong. Now let it go.
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post #208 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post

OS X didn't originate from Apple. What is so hard to understand about that? It did, however, originate from a company that was lead by Steve Jobs.

You were wrong to begin with, that's all there is to say. End of discussion.

I'm talking and have been talking about about APPLE- re read my original post. Who cares about NextStep. Stop trolling for SJ. Stick to the topic.
post #209 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedarts View Post

geez, nobody seems to get it. Mac and Win are NOT in competition with each other. Have not been in 20+ years.

I think you're wrong about this. For every person who buys a Mac that's one less copy of Windows Microsoft is going to sell. This is how competition works.
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post #210 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post

No, you inferred that Apple had stolen the idea from Windows, when it was Windows who had stolen the idea from NeXT. That's the truth of it, and you were wrong. Now let it go.

DId you read MOSSBERG yet?
post #211 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

WRONG- Apple has not had a dock since 1988 in its OS. No more wasting my time.

TS is nothing if not amusing. I love it when he makes some wild assertion, is proven wrong, quotes something himself that contradicts his statement, reverses what he claims he said a few times, then engages in reality denial. You can't buy entertainment like this.
post #212 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Can you Touch on your computer with OSX like you can with W7?

What is with these random arguments? Go get some sleep mate.
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post #213 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Apple owns NextSTEP. Apple is Steve Jobs (to a certain extent). Steve Jobs created NextSTEP. Mac OS X is NextSTEP, pretty much. At least when someone corrects me I have the decency to apologize. Your blind arguments are ridiculous.

Then answer me this- Which came first in a public OS- Microsoft's taskbar or Apple's Dock?
And give the year of each's debut.
End of story.
post #214 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

What is with these random arguments? Go get some sleep mate.

no- READ MOSSBERG first before posting idiotic put downs and categorizing it as VISTA-
IT'S NOT VISTA AT ALL.
post #215 of 465
This was a great article for Appleinsider - bound to get the fanboys up in arms!

I've been running Windows 7 on my iMac for a while now and I have to say, it's good. It's speedy, doesn't bother me with needless messages and is very stable. In honesty, I've not seen a crash of Windows for years (I use a PC at work), with the exception of a couple of months ago when the memory in my laptop bit the dust, and I'm pretty sure that would take down Mac OS as well!

I was surprised that Windows 7 actually booted quicker on my Mac than OSX did until Snow Leopard came along, and now the normal order has been restored, though not by much.

For all the complaints about the registry, I've had no problems with that since Windows 98.

That said, I do think Mac OS has the edge still, but the question is, would that edge be enough to make me switch? When I switched to Mac in 2005, the difference in the OS did make it worth it, but with the smaller gap, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort.

I do think Apple will figure out a way to pull ahead again, and I wait to see what people do with Grand Central, but Apple need to step up now, since Windows 7 is competition again and competition is always a good thing for us consumers.

As a side note, to wade into the Taskbar/Dock debate, I think you'll find both of them nicked it from Acorn, the British company that morphed into ARM, who had the Icon bar on RISC OS on the Archimedes back in 1987.
post #216 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post

OS X didn't originate from Apple. What is so hard to understand about that? It did, however, originate from a company that was lead by Steve Jobs.

You were wrong to begin with, that's all there is to say. End of discussion.

As I mentioned in another post, you're both wrong. The "dock" concept first appeared on the Acorn Archimedes in 1987.
post #217 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

Well then you made my argument for me - it all comes down to personal opinion and taste, as well as what is important to you. You value the Apple experience in how all their software integrates together. That works perfectly for you. I prefer to be a bit more open than what Apple typically allows me, so I aim for solutions that will work across many platforms (Windows, Linux and the Mac). Again, that's just my opinion.

(snip)

I'll make this point again, because I feel it is an important one. If I wanted to get my existing workstation that is about 5-6 years old running with all the benefits of Windows 7, I can do so. If, however, I wanted to bring some of the new speed improvements and exchange support for a friends Powerbook G4 found only in Snow Leopard.... well, they're out of luck, even those the laptop is only 4 years old. They'd have to buy a brand new machine, whereas my Windows PC worked just fine.

Your points are well taken and we simply needed to understand each others context. There. Now if only Congress work as well as we have! I digress.

Still, for those of us who have the knowledge and skills to upgrade from XP to Windows 7, it is a moot point. But, as others have pointed out, your mother's Dell, and her skill-set, would find it extremely difficult to make the upgrade. Whereas, those with Intel based Macs, could go from Panther to Snow Leopard without too much difficulty. Granted, we are talking a narrower range of "vintage" hardware.

-YipYipYipee
post #218 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

TS is nothing if not amusing. I love it when he makes some wild assertion, is proven wrong, quotes something himself that contradicts his statement, reverses what he claims he said a few times, then engages in reality denial. You can't buy entertainment like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

What is with these random arguments? Go get some sleep mate.

This is his modus operandi. He does this all the time. I called him on it in two unrelated threads yesterday. He starts off by bringing up some unrelated topic, then gets proven wrong, then slightly twists what he originally said, then blames you for "not paying attention".

post #219 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Oh that iPod I own where I can't run more than one App at a time ( unless you call listtening to music muiti-tasking)

I was talking about a laptop/ desktop- haven't you READ MOSSBERG?

You have flipped out.
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post #220 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

This was a great article for Appleinsider - bound to get the fanboys up in arms!

I've been running Windows 7 on my iMac for a while now and I have to say, it's good. It's speedy, doesn't bother me with needless messages and is very stable. In honesty, I've not seen a crash of Windows for years (I use a PC at work), with the exception of a couple of months ago when the memory in my laptop bit the dust, and I'm pretty sure that would take down Mac OS as well!

I was surprised that Windows 7 actually booted quicker on my Mac than OSX did until Snow Leopard came along, and now the normal order has been restored, though not by much.

For all the complaints about the registry, I've had no problems with that since Windows 98.

That said, I do think Mac OS has the edge still, but the question is, would that edge be enough to make me switch? When I switched to Mac in 2005, the difference in the OS did make it worth it, but with the smaller gap, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort.

I do think Apple will figure out a way to pull ahead again, and I wait to see what people do with Grand Central, but Apple need to step up now, since Windows 7 is competition again and competition is always a good thing for us consumers.

As a side note, to wade into the Taskbar/Dock debate, I think you'll find both of them nicked it from Acorn, the British company that morphed into ARM, who had the Icon bar on RISC OS on the Archimedes back in 1987.

Mossberg states it restarts faster on his Lenovo than SL.
Do you find it a copy of Vista or very different?
post #221 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

As I mentioned in another post, you're both wrong. The "dock" concept first appeared on the Acorn Archimedes in 1987.

Actually, the argument isn't even about where a dock-like feature first appeared, but simply whether NeXTStep/OpenStep/Mac OS X stole it from the Windows Taskbar. Yes, absurd, I know.
post #222 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

How is this a "toss up"? After Pogue got called out for his objectivity since he's also known as a fanboy, Mossberg, like Leo Laporte, is now over compensating by giving W7 glowing ass kissing.

Leo Laporte is a shill to whatever radio show (netcast) he's hosting at that particulate time. He's a fake. All smiles, all cool radio voice. No genuine character.
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post #223 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

This is his modus operandi. He does this all the time. I called him on it in two unrelated threads yesterday. He starts off by bringing up some unrelated topic, then gets proven wrong, then slightly twists what he originally said, then blames you for "not paying attention".


You fanboyz may think you've proven me wrong but you haven't at all. How have you? Who had the dock in the public's hands first? MS or APPL? No one will answer. Pathetic. This news is driving you crazy about W7 - I'm very sorry.

post #224 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Actually, the argument isn't even about where a dock-like feature first appeared, but simply whether NeXTStep/OpenStep/Mac OS X stole it from the Windows Taskbar. Yes, absurd, I know.

Now you're a down and out liar- show me where I posed that question. You still haven't answered my basic question


Which came first in a public OS- Microsoft's taskbar or Apple's Dock? And give the year of each's debut.
End of story.


I realize your at all sorts today with this kind of news story- but really?
post #225 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

User account control can't be set with exceptions (ie. don't ask me when I open this program) as far as I know. It is basically on or off, which in my opinion, isn't good for a security solution as some users will get annoyed and turn it off completely. BUT you can choose whether or not the screen goes grey when the user account control dialog box pops up.

User account control is the thing I hate the most with Windows Vista/7.

You are wrong. In Vista UAC was on or off. In windows 7 there is a slider that you get to chose how annoying uac is. This slider works pretty well.

IF people are going to bash windows 7 at least make sure you know what you are bashing.
post #226 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You fanboyz may think you've proven me wrong but you haven't at all. How have you? Who had the dock in the public's hands first? MS or APPL? No one will answer. Pathetic.

NeXT's implementation was first, for the last time. OS X is NeXTSTEP. Get it through your thick head.
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post #227 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You fanboyz may think you've proven me wrong but you haven't at all. How have you? Who had the dock in the public's hands first? MS or APPL? No one will answer. Pathetic.

This is what I meant by "slightly twists what he originally said". The original question is back in post #35.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Who stole the task bar from Microsoft and named it a DOCK?
post #228 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

no- READ MOSSBERG first before posting idiotic put downs and categorizing it as VISTA-
IT'S NOT VISTA AT ALL.

You have definitely lost your mind. Go back and read my Windows 7 comments on page 5.

If you can't take the time to read my comments then don't come up trying to criticize my opinions when you don't even know them.
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post #229 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

You are wrong. In Vista UAC was on or off. In windows 7 there is a slider that you get to chose how annoying uac is. This slider works pretty well.

IF people are going to bash windows 7 at least make sure you know what you are bashing.


Sorry, I have not used Windows 7, but just the way you worded that made me laugh.
post #230 of 465
Hrmm, does Windows 7 playback Blu-Ray movies as a built-in feature?
post #231 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Mossberg states it restarts faster on his Lenovo than SL.
Do you find it a copy of Vista or very different?

I have to admit, I've not used Vista all that much. At work we never moved away from XP, and Windows 7 is much different to XP in terms of appearance. From what little I've used Vista, it definitely annoys you less. When I used Vista I found it never left you alone, Windows 7 seems more like OSX in terms of "security" questions.
post #232 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

This was a great article for Appleinsider - bound to get the fanboys up in arms!

I've been running Windows 7 on my iMac for a while now and I have to say, it's good. It's speedy, doesn't bother me with needless messages and is very stable. In honesty, I've not seen a crash of Windows for years (I use a PC at work), with the exception of a couple of months ago when the memory in my laptop bit the dust, and I'm pretty sure that would take down Mac OS as well!

I was surprised that Windows 7 actually booted quicker on my Mac than OSX did until Snow Leopard came along, and now the normal order has been restored, though not by much.

For all the complaints about the registry, I've had no problems with that since Windows 98.

That said, I do think Mac OS has the edge still, but the question is, would that edge be enough to make me switch?

Good points.

Though the power of the Mac isn't the OS alone, it's the reliability and peace of mind you get from having the same company make both parts. This is something Microsoft cannot match. Not to mention the quality of hardware is invariably better in a number of ways.
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post #233 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Actually, the argument isn't even about where a dock-like feature first appeared, but simply whether NeXTStep/OpenStep/Mac OS X stole it from the Windows Taskbar. Yes, absurd, I know.

Oh, I misunderstood, so sorry for saying you're both wrong.

I do think you're both a bit strange though - who gives a shit!!!

post #234 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

This is his modus operandi. He does this all the time. I called him on it in two unrelated threads yesterday. He starts off by bringing up some unrelated topic, then gets proven wrong, then slightly twists what he originally said, then blames you for "not paying attention".


This shi-at is comical!
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post #235 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You have definitely lost your mind. Go back and read my Windows 7 comments on page 5.

If you can't take the time to read my comments then don't come up trying to criticize my opinions when you don't even know them.

Then why are you calling it V7?
post #236 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You fanboyz may think you've proven me wrong but you haven't at all. How have you? Who had the dock in the public's hands first? MS or APPL? No one will answer. Pathetic. This news is driving you crazy about W7 - I'm very sorry.


I like Windows 7.

You are the crazy person.
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post #237 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Good points.

Though the power of the Mac isn't the OS alone, it's the reliability and peace of mind you get from having the same company make both parts. This is something Microsoft cannot match. Not to mention the quality of hardware is invariably better in a number of ways.

Yes, I agree. With PC you are far more likely to end up with a piece of hardware in there that installs a driver that makes it go mad!
post #238 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Oh, I misunderstood, so sorry for saying you're both wrong.

I do think you're both a bit strange though - who gives a shit!!!


I know right - he gets so defensive!
post #239 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Then why are you calling it V7?

If I did so it was a mistake. Though to be sure you'll have to point me to that comment where I called it that. To be honest, at this stage I wouldn't put it past you simply making this up.
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post #240 of 465
My impression from reading (parts of) Walt Mossberg's reviews over the years is that he is a very reluctant Apple fan; if he is a fan at all.
He is more a wolf in sheepskin if you ask me.

Anyhow, he missed the point completely. Snow Leopard has LLVM, WebKit (HTML5), GCD and openCL under its skin. And Apple is at the forefront of software technology. This is essential for the (near) future. And Apple will, because of its software skills, and smart use of the open source community, dominate even more in the years to come.

J.
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