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Mossberg: Windows 7 narrows the gap with Apple's Mac OS X - Page 7

post #241 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

You are wrong. In Vista UAC was on or off. In windows 7 there is a slider that you get to chose how annoying uac is. This slider works pretty well.

IF people are going to bash windows 7 at least make sure you know what you are bashing.

I was going off memory, apparently my memory was wrong. I'm sorry that I can't check it while I'm at work stuck on XP.

If you are going to bash people for bashing at least pick a person that is doing a lot of it. I use Windows 7 daily at home, I just hadn't played around with the UAC settings for a long time.
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post #242 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Leo Laporte is a shill to whatever radio show (netcast) he's hosting at that particulate time. He's a fake. All smiles, all cool radio voice. No genuine character.

Eh? What are you talking about. He took massive heat on his Macbreak Weekly show a few weeks ago, calling Snow Leopard a "Snow Job," and insulted all his hosts by calling them "Apple fanboys." He's also said many times that he loves Windows 7 (as most of the reviewers tend to agree), but still prefers the Mac as his personal machine.

He, like so many of us, have to live in a Windows world regardless of your personal choice. Windows 7 is, if nothing else, the best release of Windows. Better to work on it than any of its predecessors.
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post #243 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I think this is a bit misleading.

Windows 7 is precisely "Vista" underneath in that it is internally 6.1 and not 7.0 (Vista is 6.0). The underpinnings are the same as vista, but more importantly, the hardware requirement is the same as Vista.

It would be fair to say that Windows 7 runs a smidge faster on the same hardware, but to make out like it's different from Vista in that it may not require "modern" hardware is not accurate. Machines that can run XP, but were not "beefy" enough to upgrade to Vista are in the same situation with Windows 7 as they were with the Vista upgrade. The people that passed on Vista because their computer wasn't powerful enough are still going to have to buy a new computer to run Windows 7 (if they haven't already upgraded in the interim), and that's a fact.

Additionally, since you can't actually upgrade from Windows XP, these people would have to do an "erase and install" to even be able to try it out on the old Windows XP machine. Most users of XP will not be upgrading without changing their machines, and most will likely not even be able to do so. There is also the fact that both Vista and Windows 7 are "different" UI's and more Mac-like than any windows has ever been before them. It's as big a change for the average XP user as switching to Mac would be and lots of the older folks just won't bother.

The only people that will have the "pop in the disk and click upgrade" experience that Snow Leopard gave to Mac users, are the current Vista users who are pretty much already sold on Windows anyway. For everyone else an upgrade will be a rather gruelling experience. Even if you recently bought a Vista capable PC and smartly had it downgraded to XP, you now have to erase the whole thing, change to Windows 7, and re-install all your programs.

It's worth mentioning that the vast majority of computer users in general (on all platforms), use the OS that came with their computer until the day they get a new one. Unlike the readers of this forum, most don't even do point upgrades or patches. Most users will be experiencing Windows 7 on the next brand new machine that they buy sometime next year.

It's been fairly well documented that the Windows 7 system requirements will be less demanding than Vista. Netbook manufacturers have been selling them with XP or linux because of the system requirements of vista. They are now indicating that they will be selling their netbooks with windows 7, rather than xp because it runs well on lower spec hardware, whereas Vista did not.
post #244 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

My impression from reading (parts of) Walt Mossberg's reviews over the years is that he is a very reluctant Apple fan; if he is a fan at all.
He is more a wolf in sheepskin if you ask me.

Anyhow, he missed the point completely. Snow Leopard has LLVM, WebKit (HTML5), GCD and openCL under its skin. And Apple is at the forefront of software technology. This is essential for the (near) future. And Apple will, because of its software skills, and smart use of the open source community, dominate even more in the years to come.

J.

Dominate? The *best* number they can come up with is 12% of home users in the United States, while worldwide adoption is still around 3-5%.

Apple's a great company, no doubt, and they're more well off than their other direct competitors (Dell, HP, Acer, etc...), but let's not lie to ourselves, here. Apple has a tiny fraction of all computers in the world.
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post #245 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

Eh? What are you talking about. He took massive heat on his Macbreak Weekly show a few weeks ago, calling Snow Leopard a "Snow Job," and insulted all his hosts by calling them "Apple fanboys." He's also said many times that he loves Windows 7 (as most of the reviewers tend to agree), but still prefers the Mac as his personal machine.

He, like so many of us, have to live in a Windows world regardless of your personal choice. Windows 7 is, if nothing else, the best release of Windows. Better to work on it than any of its predecessors.

I take nothing he says a face value. He's full of shit.
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post #246 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

My impression from reading (parts of) Walt Mossberg's reviews over the years is that he is a very reluctant Apple fan; if he is a fan at all.
He is more a wolf in sheepskin if you ask me.

Anyhow, he missed the point completely. Snow Leopard has LLVM, WebKit (HTML5), GCD and openCL under its skin. And Apple is at the forefront of software technology. This is essential for the (near) future. And Apple will, because of its software skills, and smart use of the open source community, dominate even more in the years to come.

J.

Webkit is readily and freely available for windows.
post #247 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That argument would work if this forum wasn't full of crazy people.

Classic!
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post #248 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

Webkit is readily and freely available for windows.

Not to mention that none of the OpenCL and Grand Central processing means a thing until developers actually take advantage of it. Snow Leopard has a lot of *potential,* but it could be years before any real-world use of those technologies are made, and even then I'm willing to bet the differences in efficiency will be noticible, but nothing to cry home to.
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post #249 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If I did so it was a mistake. Though to be sure you'll have to point me to that comment where I called it that. To be honest, at this stage I wouldn't put it past you simply making this up.

Me no make things up (not like anoymouse and his buddy gazoowee):

Allow me to quote you master:

Quote:
If this is true this embarrassing for him. Personally I don't rate him much at all and find his video reviews mega-boring and he style quite pompous.

That said I don't think Vista 7 is that bad. But, it's no OS X.

And that was you praising Windows 7?
post #250 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

If you would take the time to READ the full WSJ you would see the NUMEROUS reasons why it is different- a MAJOR difference. People only believe what they want to on here. JEESH!

Please READ it:
http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20091007...lp-you-forget/

I stopped reading at the second paragraph. Too much wishful thinking.

I use windows 7 nearly as much as I use OS X daily and in many ways it is still a major leap backwards when compared to XP (I'm not saying nothing was improved, LOTS of stuff was improved, but still is just Windows.... It wasn't designed like OS X was, and there is no "under the hood Grand Central"-like stuff in it either.

Grrrrr, there is so much more I wanted to say, but I can't find the words to say it... maybe later

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post #251 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

I stopped reading at the second paragraph. Too much wishful thinking.

I use windows 7 nearly as much as I use OS X daily and in many ways it is still a major leap backwards when compared to XP (I'm not saying nothing was improved, LOTS of stuff was improved, but still is just Windows.... It wasn't designed like OS X was, and there is no "under the hood Grand Central"-like stuff in it either.

Grrrrr, there is so much more I wanted to say, but I can't find the words to say it... maybe later

Well I am curious why you think it's
Quote:
it is still a major leap backwards when compared to XP
post #252 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ok then - who uses NEXT?

I used to - my NeXTstation was the last great machine I had (many PCs in between, never would have called them nice) until I got a G5 iMac 14 years later. Anyone coding on the Mac / iPhone has used NSString, as has anyone doing NeXT development 20 years ago.

Certainly there was a Dock there long before Win95 did the taskbar - I got my slab back when my roommate got Windows 3.0 - wow was there ever no comparison there. I had 16 bit CD-quality audio, Display PostScript, true multitasking, higher res, faster, more memory, everything integrated into the machine, quiet running and good looking hardware, he had Win 3.0, reboots, and an airplane-engine volume HD. His machine did have all the games, though.
post #253 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

My impression from reading (parts of) Walt Mossberg's reviews over the years is that he is a very reluctant Apple fan; if he is a fan at all.
He is more a wolf in sheepskin if you ask me.

Anyhow, he missed the point completely. Snow Leopard has LLVM, WebKit (HTML5), GCD and openCL under its skin. And Apple is at the forefront of software technology. This is essential for the (near) future. And Apple will, because of its software skills, and smart use of the open source community, dominate even more in the years to come.

J.

most of these have nothing to do with the OS

webkit is on windows

HTML5 can be had in any internet browser that supports it. i have 5 installed now. IE, firefox, chrome, safari and opera

GCD is nothing but thread scheduling and MS has the same thing, minus the catchy marketing name. on SL it's useless without appication support.

OpenCL is also on windows as well as CUDA and Stream. and it has nothing to do with the OS

two things Vista and 7 have that SL doesn't is full native 64 bit support and randomizing the memory space for security reasons. my laptop runs native x64 Windows 7 and any "legacy" crap i have a virtual XP machine. MS rewrote virtual PC for WIndows 7 Ultimate where it takes advantage of VT on the CPU and it runs almost as fast as on the bare hardware.

itunes works just fine on Windows 7 x64
post #254 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

OpenCL is also on windows as well as CUDA and Stream. and it has nothing to do with the OS

Well, one advantage OpenCL has over either CUDA or Stream is its not based on proprietary hardware. That means you write it once to OpenCL, and it will apply to either an ATI or nVidia card. Currently, the other two technologies only work on their respective cards, making adoption of either next to nil.

OpenCL is definitely an edge over Windows 7, but again, only theoretically. Nothing takes advantage of it, yet.
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post #255 of 465
At least you can switch graphic cards on the fly without the need to log out first on Vista and 7, something which is very useful on a new MacBook Pro which comes with 2 graphic cards. I was hoping Apple would redesign/extend their graphic stack to support this too but, alas, it seems that Microsoft is ahead of the game at least in this area.

I've been using 7 on my MacBook Pro for several weeks now (mostly for work) for free. Students here had early access to Windows 7 Professional from the end of August. Some quick impressions:

* It sometimes feels slow. I'm not sure if it is really slow or perceived slowness due to an overuse of fade in/out animations but since I don't notice any performance degradation on any application I used it's probably the latter.

* Aero Peek is a nice addition. Internet Explorer uses it to preview all open tabs and windows and I got used to it rather quickly to specifically select a tab when bringing IE back from the background.

* The active borders, especially the ones which makes 2 windows use 50 percent of available space side by side, is a boon to me who has to read a lot of PDFs and other documentation while writing.

* Progress on the dock icon is also a small but fine addition, especially when downloading large files. It helped me to cope with my compulsive behaviour to check the download progress every few minutes.

* Games like Lord of the Rings Online run fine under DirectX 10. Something I was really not expecting.

* RAM usage is noticeably higher when using the 64 bit version compared to Windows XP. If you use memory intensive applications or games 4 GB of RAM is recommended. Some of these applications and games never encountered noticeable memory bottlenecks on XP.

* Don't care much about jump lists on 7 the same I don't care about the OS X equivalent.

* Shutdown time is noticeably slower than on OS X. On the other hand stand-bye mode is quicker (probably because OS X always saves memory contents to the hard disk first) and waking up is almost instant.

* Boot time is comparable to OS X (maybe a tad longer but not much).

* The file explorer now has most of the good features of the Finder (and some unique ones) without the retarded stuff. Using 7 I reminded me again of how I much miss a good default file manager on OS X. Thank god for Path Finder.

There's probably more stuff which would deserve further comments. Maybe at a later time.

EDIT: Something I remembered:

* Windows Media Player 12 now has the same retarded interface as QTX where the controls overlay the content even when not in fullscreen mode. Makes watching anything with subtitles a chore. On a positive note: It now supports H.264 and AAC natively. Here's still hoping that QuickTime will support WMV/VC-1 out of the box one day.
post #256 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Now you're a down and out liar- show me where I posed that question. You still haven't answered my basic question


Which came first in a public OS- Microsoft's taskbar or Apple's Dock? And give the year of each's debut.
End of story.


I realize your at all sorts today with this kind of news story- but really?

Hahaha - that's funny, like asking 'Did you stop beating your wife yet?'. Is your question which of those 2 companies had the taskbar/dock first, or whether Apple stole it from Microsoft which I believe was the earlier comment?

Microsoft had their taskbar before OSX had the Dock since there was no OS X when Win 95 came out, but Apple certainly didn't copy MS for the idea since they purchased a company / assets that had it well before MS did.

And for the Acorn Archimedes having it before NeXT - totally possible, I think the question here was whether Apple 'stole' the Dock from Microsoft. Or at least that seemed to be the original question.
post #257 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

Hahaha - that's funny, like asking 'Did you stop beating your wife yet?'. Is your question which of those 2 companies had the taskbar/dock first, or whether Apple stole it from Microsoft which I believe was the earlier comment?

Microsoft had their taskbar before OSX had the Dock since there was no OS X when Win 95 came out, but Apple certainly didn't copy MS for the idea since they purchased a company / assets that had it well before MS did.

And for the Acorn Archimedes having it before NeXT - totally possible, I think the question here was whether Apple 'stole' the Dock from Microsoft. Or at least that seemed to be the original question.

Finally - the answer and answered with a sense a humor. thank you , thank you.

(to answer your question- it was both- one begat the other)
post #258 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Who cares where it originated - it who utilzed it first and for how long. Besides, Mossberg states in the review today, if you would READ it,

Quote:
In Windows 7, the familiar taskbar has been reinvented and made taller. Instead of mainly being a place where icons of open windows temporarily appear, it now is a place where you can permanently pin the icons of frequently used programs anywhere along its length, and in any arrangement you choose. This is a concept borrowed from Apples similar feature, the Dock. But Windows 7 takes the concept further.

Eh? Am I missing something? Has something big changed from the RTM? Was Mossberg bribed to say this? I knew he was a Mac user (NEVER was a fan. just because he uses the products he thinks that best suit his needs it doesn't make him a fan), but this is just garbage. It doesn't have as many features as the Dock does, and the features it has that the Dock doesn't (probably the "further" stuff) are so small and worthless they might be there only to show off.

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post #259 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

It's been fairly well documented that the Windows 7 system requirements will be less demanding than Vista. Netbook manufacturers have been selling them with XP or linux because of the system requirements of vista. They are now indicating that they will be selling their netbooks with windows 7, rather than xp because it runs well on lower spec hardware, whereas Vista did not.

Well I don't want to get into a flame war but I don't think this is accurate. If you look into the details instead of just the headlines, you will see that the hardware that runs Windows 7 "smoothly" also ran Vista smoothly. There have been some slight improvements as I noted in both systems, because nothing stands still over that amount of time.

Most of those new netbooks capable of running Windows 7 are much better than those that were on the shelf when Vista came out. It was the heavy hardware requirements of Vista that took everyone by surprise that led to the huge number of systems that couldn't run it. That and the admitted fraud of the manufacturers in the "Vista-capable" program.

In the time since Vista launched (and primarily because those machines "couldn't do Vista"), the owners of many of those older machines have already upgraded and the new machines are both faster and better tuned to run Vista or Windows 7. Vista has also been "fixed" to a degree in the interim, with Windows 7 being the shiny polished version of those fixes, with the new UI. There are actually less changes "beneath the hood" (non UI changes), in Windows 7 than there are in Snow Leopard even though Snow Leopard is touted as having no major changes from Leopard.

Windows 7 is literally "Windows Vista with a new UI." Balmer himself said it in almost those exact words.

The hardware requirements for Windows 7 are essentially the same as Vista. The only improvements that have been made speed-wise in Windows 7 that allow it to be more responsive on lesser hardware, also apply to Vista.
post #260 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Oh and the need to consider making a real mouse.

Then we'd have to feed them ... and think of the droppings
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post #261 of 465
I've used Win7 on a handful of occasions via VMWare for a couple months.....and I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed. Maybe I'm missing something. I mean if you are using XP or Vista, I could see how it's a step up. Although, honestly I can't see much difference from the Vista VM. I know they have refined the code and made a couple improvements to the Aero interface, but there is nothing that I've seen to make me switch back. I was once a hardcore MS person going back to DOS and Win 3.01, but the advent of bootcamp and then VM apps, I've made the switch and I'm in OSX 99% of the time now. I'd consider Ubuntu (have that as a VM too) if Adobe would support linux with their suite of products, but yet they still don't.

BTW, netbooks may be supposedly all the rage, but in walking through Denver International Airport the other day noting which computers people were using and was surprised to see a majority of people using Macs and very few netbooks.

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post #262 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

I guess you have never heard of NeXTStep, which existed years before the task bar appeared in Windows 95. Mac OS X is a re-write of NeXTStep, which included the Dock.

Good point, but previous to that was a great Andy Hertfield System 7 add-on. Previous to that was a dock on the Lisa. If we get our history straight, Allen and Gates heisted the code from Mac from the beginning-basing their entire business on borrowed software! To be fair, they did pay the guy in Seattle who wrote DOS=$50k for a few billion dollars worth of profit!
post #263 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

... And for the Acorn Archimedes having it before NeXT - totally possible, I think the question here was whether Apple 'stole' the Dock from Microsoft. Or at least that seemed to be the original question.

it wasn't a question actually.

teckstud made the bold assertion that Apple stole the dock from Microsoft. That's what started it.

He is wrong about five times over, but now he is claiming he didn't say that all along, and that he is right that it didn't happen that way, or some such convoluted BS. It's really hard to keep track of the thoughts of a person with such a poorly organised mental state.

The real story in a nutshell is that the dock and the taskbar are not really the same thing at all either visually or technically (based on their method of operation). Acorn used the dock first, NeXT used a slightly different version which then migrated to OS-X and changed yet again.

Microsoft has not had a dock until recently. It's taskbar is a (functionally), different thing from a dock although it has "dock-like" elements. Microsoft's taskbar has now evolved (with Windows 7) to be very very similar to the OS-X dock indeed. By virtue of the fact that you can now "pin" things to the taskbar and the fact that it shows status changes and does context and window management, the taskbar in Windows 7 can probably, for the first time, rightly be called a "dock."

There are many long articles on the Internet about the history of these changes that I have read, (one is referenced in this very thread). This is all common knowledge. None of this is in question, and it never has been except perhaps in teckstuds mind.
post #264 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Me no make things up (not like anoymouse and his buddy gazoowee):

Allow me to quote you master:

Permission granted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And that was you praising Windows 7?


Yes subject, now go to bed.
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post #265 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

Well, one advantage OpenCL has over either CUDA or Stream is its not based on proprietary hardware. That means you write it once to OpenCL, and it will apply to either an ATI or nVidia card. Currently, the other two technologies only work on their respective cards, making adoption of either next to nil.

OpenCL is definitely an edge over Windows 7, but again, only theoretically. Nothing takes advantage of it, yet.

MS has DirectX which will see version 11 released soon. first came out in the 1990's and promised the same thing. write once and it will run on any graphics hardware. in reality it never worked out ideally. i've read the release notes on game patches and graphics drivers and they are always making custom changes because some card at some driver version has a problem with a game due to how it was coded or the dev kit used. same thing will happen to any other app that uses the "graphics" card
post #266 of 465
From the horse's mouth. The basics

Vista
Quote:
Home Premium / Business / Ultimate
* 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
* 1 GB of system memory
* 40 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space


Windows 7
Quote:
If you want to run Windows 7 on your PC, here's what it takes:
* 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
* 1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit)
* 16 GB available hard disk space (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
post #267 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

At least you can switch graphic cards on the fly without the need to log out first on Vista and 7, something which is very useful on a new MacBook Pro which comes with 2 graphic cards. I was hoping Apple would redesign/extend their graphic stack to support this too but, alas, it seems that Microsoft is ahead of the game at least in this area.

I've been using 7 on my MacBook Pro for several weeks now (mostly for work) for free. Students here had early access to Windows 7 Professional from the end of August. Some quick impressions:

* It sometimes feels slow. I'm not sure if it is really slow or perceived slowness due to an overuse of fade in/out animations but since I don't notice any performance degradation on any application I used it's probably the latter.

* Aero Peek is a nice addition. Internet Explorer uses it to preview all open tabs and windows and I got used to it rather quickly to specifically select a tab when bringing IE back from the background.

* The active borders, especially the ones which makes 2 windows use 50 percent of available space side by side, is a boon to me who has to read a lot of PDFs and other documentation while writing.

* Progress on the dock icon is also a small but fine addition, especially when downloading large files. It helped me to cope with my compulsive behaviour to check the download progress every few minutes.

* Games like Lord of the Rings Online run fine under DirectX 10. Something I was really not expecting.

* RAM usage is noticeably higher when using the 64 bit version compared to Windows XP. If you use memory intensive applications or games 4 GB of RAM is recommended. Some of these applications and games never encountered noticeable memory bottlenecks on XP.

* Don't care much about jump lists on 7 the same I don't care about the OS X equivalent.

* Shutdown time is noticeably slower than on OS X. On the other hand stand-bye mode is quicker (probably because OS X always saves memory contents to the hard disk first) and waking up is almost instant.

* Boot time is comparable to OS X (maybe a tad longer but not much).

* The file explorer now has most of the good features of the Finder (and some unique ones) without the retarded stuff. Using 7 I reminded me again of how I much miss a good default file manager on OS X. Thank god for Path Finder.

There's probably more stuff which would deserve further comments. Maybe at a later time.

EDIT: Something I remembered:

* Windows Media Player 12 now has the same retarded interface as QTX where the controls overlay the content even when not in fullscreen mode. Makes watching anything with subtitles a chore. On a positive note: It now supports H.264 and AAC natively. Here's still hoping that QuickTime will support WMV/VC-1 out of the box one day.

any time you use native x64 it uses more RAM than native x86. it's part of going to 64 bit. even the file sizes for service packs are much larger for the 64 bit version and the 32 bit
post #268 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

From the horse's mouth. The basics

Vista



Windows 7

one nice feature is that it puts all the OS install files on the hard disk so if you add a feature you don't need the original DVD
post #269 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

it wasn't a question actually.

teckstud made the bold assertion that Apple stole the dock from Microsoft. That's what started it.

He is wrong about five times over, but now he is claiming he didn't say that all along, and that he is right that it didn't happen that way, or some such convoluted BS. It's really hard to keep track of the thoughts of a person with such a poorly organised mental state.

The real story in a nutshell is that the dock and the taskbar are not really the same thing at all either visually or technically (based on their method of operation). Acorn used the dock first, NeXT used a slightly different version which then migrated to OS-X and changed yet again.

Microsoft has not had a dock until recently. It's taskbar is a (functionally), different thing from a dock although it has "dock-like" elements. Microsoft's taskbar has now evolved (with Windows 7) to be very very similar to the OS-X dock indeed. By virtue of the fact that you can now "pin" things to the taskbar and the fact that it shows status changes and does context and window management, the taskbar in Windows 7 can probably, for the first time, rightly be called a "dock."

There are many long articles on the Internet about the history of these changes that I have read, (one is referenced in this very thread). This is all common knowledge. None of this is in question, and it never has been except perhaps in teckstuds mind.

Please don't even try explaining your lunacy.
post #270 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post


I've been using Win7 for almost all of this year and while it won't convince me to sell my Mac, I'm very happy it's pretty good.



Yes there is. Although you will have to do a clean install (sounds like that doesn't matter, you're already running it) you get the upgrade price if you have a valid version of XP.

Good point. Clean install is not prefered, read elsewhere that I can upgrade with a copy of Vista, then goto 7. Will probably bring along some baggage, but the boys won't have to install all of their games.
post #271 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

L-WTF?
Apple didn't- NEXTSTEP did.
Cannot you READ?

dude, you said Apple stole the dock from Microsoft.

Just admit you are wrong. It won't hurt that much. It will make you a better person and save a lot of space on the forum.

Do you realise that if you take your crappy one-liners out of the thread, it's like a page and a half shorter? Don't you ever get tired of complaining about everything and everyone?
post #272 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

WRONG- Apple has not had a dock since 1988 in its OS. No more wasting my time.

Are you kidding me? NeXT, owned by Steve Jobs, was bought by Apple. NeXTStep, had the dock, and it's NeXTStep that became updated, gained features from OS 9, and was renamed OS X. Therefore, by chain of ownership, Apple owns the software that originated the Dock, and thus never copied it from anyone at all.

A brief history:

http://lowendmac.com/orchard/05/next...r-history.html
post #273 of 465
I've been working with the final version of Win 7 for a little while at work now (we're testing with it for a future software release), and it's been nothing but an annoyance to us so far.

It's quite possible that it's good when compared to Vista (which my company skipped), but upgrading from XP to Windows 7 doesn't seem to gain very much for a user. Off the top of my head, here are the pros and cons I've witnessed so far:

Pros:
- Find function finally uses a modern search engine, like Google Desktop
- The Dock-like taskbar is an improvement. However, see Cons below.
- Nice new background pictures
- Aero provides nice eye candy (although we disable this by default in our systems, so the OS resembles XP Classic)

Cons:
- Control Panels have been randomly renamed and are usually not accessible using previous methods. The end result doesn't seem to have any logic to it - it's just different for difference sake. This caused us a lot of annoyance as we were trying to learn how to configure and troubleshoot the new OS.
- Windows Explorer has changed for the worse in many respects, such as resetting the scroll bar to the top when you've selected a folder farther down, hiding what you selected.
- You can no longer set the Start menu to "Classic Start Menu" view.
- Startup and shutdown are much slower than XP.
- Can't get to System 32 folder unless you start browsing at c: root. If you start browsing elsewhere, you will be redirected (using virtual folders) to a Windows folder that contains nothing useful.
- Dock-like taskbar pales in comparison to the real Dock in OSX. (Hard to tell when an app is running or not, no drag/drop rearrange, hard to tell when more than one window is open for an item without clicking, etc.)
- Lots of little annoying omissions like the lack of an Explore menu option when right-clicking My Computer.

That's all I can think of right now. Overall, many areas that have changed are simply different, and we haven't yet found any that seem better. Win 7 will get out there, as I'm sure lots of new computers will ship with it, but from an upgrade perspective, I don't see why anyone would upgrade at all (especially at over $100 for an upgrade) since most of the new features can be added to XP for free using plugins.

I guess I'm just spoiled with Snow Leopard. \
post #274 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhb View Post

This is a fascinating thread... and I, for one, am glad that (by the looks of it) Windows users might be getting something better, after years of pain.

My question is this. I'm a Mac user (doing a lot of multimedia development), and my wife is a Windows user (doing tons of data processing for medical research). In both cases, we find ourselves running up against the 32-bit RAM ceiling (which I believe is 4Gb per application space). When we're both crunching big numbers, both current O/S's (XP and SL) have real problems from a RAM allocation standpoint.

I know that SL is now 64-bit ready, but I'm still waiting for the app devs to catch up to the ridiculous capabilities of the MacPro, including its big RAM capacity. Same for her, over in Windows land.

So the question is -- which O/S is best positioned (with its dev community) to get over this 64-bit hump once and for all, and release all of the power our hardware has, but can't use?

... or am I missing something obvious?

Hold down the "6" and "4" keys on your MacPro and press the power button, hold them down till it comes to the login. That should answer your question.

In terms of database's and number crunching, OS X has won for years. I can migrate 1mil records in less than 2 mins on a MacMini Intel where as running windows (same system in bootcamp) takes over 30mins. It's not the hardware, it's the software.
post #275 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

The Home version is a feature crippled version with many pre-installed trial software which sometimes is impossible to un-install if you don't have the exact know how, one example of that is McAfee.

What the hell are you talking about? Windows doesn't include any kind of trialware whatsoever. That's all added in by third-party OEMs.

And what do you mean by "impossible to uninstall?" Because it's so hard to go into Control Panel and uninstall any software you don't want... Or do a clean install.

I would agree that *SOME* extremely elementary computer users might not know how to do either, but c'mon... anyone who has used Windows for more than a month knows how to uninstall "impossible to uninstall" software or just do a quick and easy clean install.
post #276 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yes subject, now go to bed.

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz........
post #277 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

most of these have nothing to do with the OS

webkit is on windows

HTML5 can be had in any internet browser that supports it. i have 5 installed now. IE, firefox, chrome, safari and opera

GCD is nothing but thread scheduling and MS has the same thing, minus the catchy marketing name. on SL it's useless without appication support.

OpenCL is also on windows as well as CUDA and Stream. and it has nothing to do with the OS

two things Vista and 7 have that SL doesn't is full native 64 bit support and randomizing the memory space for security reasons. my laptop runs native x64 Windows 7 and any "legacy" crap i have a virtual XP machine. MS rewrote virtual PC for WIndows 7 Ultimate where it takes advantage of VT on the CPU and it runs almost as fast as on the bare hardware.

itunes works just fine on Windows 7 x64

Snow Leopard is also full 64 bit top to bottom, just not for all current machines and single DVD of Snow Leopard contains OS that is capable of running both 32 bit and 64 bit kernels without any hacks. WOW64 is a hack on the other hand I can run both 64 and 32 bit apps on Snow Leopard no matter what kernel is currently loaded 32 or 64 bit.

Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

Reply

Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

Reply
post #278 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

dude, you said Apple stole the dock from Microsoft.

Just admit you are wrong. It won't hurt that much. It will make you a better person and save a lot of space on the forum.

Do you realise that if you take your crappy one-liners out of the thread, it's like a page and a half shorter? Don't you ever get tired of complaining about everything and everyone?

Stop beating a dead horse- this has been answered long ago and correctly, unlike your posts.
post #279 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Finally - the answer and answered with a sense a humor. thank you , thank you.

(to answer your question- it was both- one begat the other)

Microsoft had it first, but Job's (who most associate with Apple) had it before that. OS 7 introduced the Dock-Like structure first but it wasn't the "Dock" as we know it today. OS 8 and 9 perfected it which was about the time of Win95. What would be interesting, and maybe I'll do it tonight, is to re-visit the Xerox footage of the GUI they showed to Apple back in 1979??? Was a DOCK in that?

Does it really matter who had it first? Which one works better?

You know one cool feature from Next (yes I was a user and DAMN PROUD OF IT) that I miss? The audio notations built into everything, more exactly the ability to add them and make it part of the system and then share with others. Corny by today's standards but when used in email it was like the worlds first voicemail system.
post #280 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll

also how is this apple news?

people that compare snow leopard to windows 7 are angry pc users which have never owned / operated a mac and have no idea of what they're talking about, and were paid big amounts of money to write good reviews, like this mossberg character


Mossberg is an iconic journalist and an export consumer reviewer, he absolutely does not have a any biases if you have ever read his writing in the past 30 years

he holds everyone on the same playing field
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