Mossberg: Windows 7 narrows the gap with Apple's Mac OS X - Page 3

Yeah, I think the taskbar management for launching/running apps has improved, but it doesn't fix the rest of the user experience. Other apps still are just awful to use and what's underneath the OS covers haven't really improved either.

First of all, OS X also warns you when you first open a file downloaded from the Internet. The warning Win7 gives is fairly sensible and can easily be disabled (there is even a convenient link from the message itself, unlike in OS X I might add, so you don't "have to hunt down the settings")

Considering about 90% of mac users have to use a PC as well, for various reasons, Win7 is a significant and important release. I have to use Windows at work, I choose to use it at home for gaming... Win7 is streets ahead of XP, which is now a liability and much more efficient than Vista, not to mention nicer to use.

I've been using Win7 for almost all of this year and while it won't convince me to sell my Mac, I'm very happy it's pretty good.


Yes there is. Although you will have to do a clean install (sounds like that doesn't matter, you're already running it) you get the upgrade price if you have a valid version of XP.

Now if the fanbois want to bitch about something, bitch about the cost, because MS doesn't seem to have figured this out properly.

Ok then - who uses NEXT?

But XP is a dinosaur now and upgrading will help the US Economy- create many new jobs.

Under pain of waterboarding you will admit to anything, jackass.

User account control can't be set with exceptions (ie. don't ask me when I open this program) as far as I know. It is basically on or off, which in my opinion, isn't good for a security solution as some users will get annoyed and turn it off completely. BUT you can choose whether or not the screen goes grey when the user account control dialog box pops up.

User account control is the thing I hate the most with Windows Vista/7.

Mossberg seems to be completely missing the point of SL. No, maybe it's not a, "typical Apple lust-provoking product," because it isn't packed full of fun new user features, but it is packed full of fun new developer features, and lays a very strong foundation for Mac OS X to continue to develop as a platform. Windows 7, although apparently a huge improvement in user experience over Vista (from all reports, no hands on myself), is, by all accounts, no great technological advancement, but a minor evolution built on the same old crufty code base.

That and his reported comments on Vista at its introduction cast some doubt on his authority in these matters, even if he is generally fairly pro-apple.

They have been selling pre-order home premium win 7 upgrades for $50 even before apple announced $29 for snow leopard. And they are selling $30 student copies. Upgrade copies also apply to XP an almost 9 year old OS. Not too shabby.

Nobody switches 'back' to Win from Mac. I know 16 people who went Win -> Mac, know of nobody going the other way. What Win 7 might do is stem the tide of new switchers which is a major contribution to new mac sales.

Win 7 looks good, by comparison with where it's coming from (i.e. Vista). Indeed, were it not for OS X, we might think Win 7 was very good indeed. Apple have been very clever with Snow Leopard - 10.6 was used as an opportunity to trim the code base, address deficiencies and legacy issues and lay architectural groundwork for 10.7 and beyond. GCD, 64 bit and other improvements in the core make the next great leap forward much easier for Apple. What is most impressive is the shared core between all the device platforms Mac desktop, laptop, server, aTV, iPhone and iPod Touch.

That's where the relentless progress of Apple and OS X is coming from.

And Microsoft's lack of a credible unified platform will continue to allow Apple to grow for the next decade.

I'd keep your head down for a while if i were you

I don't think he meant it literally, jackass.

The compelling reason will be MS withdrawing support for XP.

Everyone who is using OS X. (Plus probably a few holdouts still running the old OS on old hardware.)

That's because some programs are written incorrectly and want admin access in order to run. Those developers of those apps need to address that.

Wow you are full of shit. Which company is selling more computers than ever, even during a recession? Not Dell, HP, or other PC companies that make piece of shit cheap computers. Netbooks are also pieces of shit too, but if you are so hung up on price, then go buy one of those cheap computers. No one is stopping you.

Um... because you started downloading something within Firefox and did not let it finish. Of course its going to give you that warning, because you don't have the complete file!

Spend more time actually learning how to use the computer, instead of trying to insight FUD.

When all is said and done, Windows 7 is a welcome competition to Apple, they do need a little push in that department.

The Windows Flash plug-in vastly superior to the one on OS X.

/puts on tinfoil hat

Stop right there.

Apple needs to put most of its attention on this tablet, and the all-new Mac OS X touch OS. Which they likely are. They furthermore though need to take a leaf out of the Google playbook by making Mobile me completely free. They need to beef up the feature set it offers, and use that to help sell hardware. Also, they need to start bundling iWork with all new Macs (and bundle it as part of the OS), the full version, for free. All these factors would make the Mac far more appealing over night. Then then can move more Macs and get back to doing some real innovation behind the stage curtain.

Oh and the need to consider making a real mouse.

I'm actually in the market to buy a very comparable Windows 7 laptop for my mother for about $700. For what she gets (Core 2 Duo, nVidia 9400m, etc), she's getting an amazing computer with an operating system she's familiar with. At the same time, I don't have to worry about random crashes or glitches, and seeing as she'll rarely go online, viruses.

To her, a PC is the perfect choice. The mac, however, would require trying to retrain her on every little detail about it, answering questions like "Where is the start menu?"

You do know that macs use the same parts right? Just because they cost more doesn't mean the internals are any different.
Last I checked mac market share is pretty low. The vast majority of mac users still run a windows computer.

Why is it any more annoying that what happens in OS X where you have to enter your User/password to install certains programs or even make some system changes?

It's very easy in Windows to set yourself up as an non-admin user, disable UAC and have an OS X-like experience (enter your admin username/password to install stuff).

Windows is intrisically more prone to virus issues than OS X, so this is the trade-off. Kinds like having to dual boot a Mac if you want (decent) games...

I'd agree with that, and add something to it as well. Corporate would also have a hell of a time with tech support for all of the relocated things in Win7's (Vista, too) interface. Add to that XP is entirely good enough to run Office. You really only have the required business software on your machine at work, VPN's etc.
There is no reason to, for example, have your digital camera "just work" when you plug it in to your office PC. You would probably get reprimanded for trying to add a USB device to your tower XP is just plain good enough to do work on. No matter what eye candy M$ plows into 7 or Vista for that matter will get a company to abandon a proven platform. They will have to be upgraded by force, which I think support runs out in 2012?

Apple's OS is aimed squarely at the home user, and while the GUI is seamless, it would be nice to have other options. For example, TV doesn't have nearly the codec support out of the box that it should, iTunes included. Apple wants to own the home, IMO, but they fall short there by being pseudo-open. I am definitely under the impression they want a TV, maybe a printer, a tablet, etc etc. I wish they would get the stuff they have now to support added file types or hardware. It seems to me that Apple almost learned from Job's absence, but not quite enough.
Microsoft, on the other hand, is working to appeal to the home user, while still maintaining a firm grasp on the business clientele. They let  do all the R+D, copy the most desired features, and add it to their OS to appeal to people in the home. Not dumb, just late.

I guess you have never heard of NeXTStep, which existed years before the task bar appeared in Windows 95. Mac OS X is a re-write of NeXTStep, which included the Dock.

It starts at cripling the software for you to pay more.

1-A Home Premium upgrade will cost $120 ($200 standalone); \
2-Professional upgrade will cost $200 ($300 standalone); and
3-Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade will run $320 ($400 standalone).

What are you paying for? Upgrade from some stuff that didn't work properly and you paid for (Vista)
Greedy and dishonest; as usual...

These companies didn't learn the crisis' lesson and deserve to fail.

No, Thank you

Win 7 ultimate is not like Vista ultimate. It's just a single license enterprise edition and won't be sold on store shelves.
So you just have home premium and professional on store shelves. No different than xp really. Microsoft has been selling pre-order upgrade copies of these for $50. And you are eligible for an upgrade copy if you own xp. An almost 9 year old OS. Apple won't even allow that.
Students get a $30 copy. Most people get a copy when they get a new computer. System builders can get themselves cheap OEM copies.

You forget apple only supports the home user. Microsoft supports the home user, small business and enterprise. Why pay more for features that you don't need? Thus the home version at a lower price point.

You mean like upgrading from the iPhone to the iPhone 3G, or 3G to the 3G(s)? Yes, it's annoying when that happens, isn't it.

Having exceptions is exactly what would break all security measures brought on by UAC. What's to stop a virus from infecting any executable that you've put on your list and hook itself to it?

That's actually the part I love MOST about Windows 7. First of all, the recommended defaults only show UAC when either installing an application or running an application as an administrator. Common windows tasks that used to trigger an alert no longer do so, meaning it only appears when you (or other software) deliberately tries to modify your system.

The fact is UAC is only intrusive if you're trying to run an application that is poorly written. Mac developers have learned that they cannot assume administrator rights, and prompt for your password before proceeding. UAC is similar, in that if a developer wrote his software correctly (which they've had almost three years to do now), you should *NEVER* see a UAC alert until those rights are actually necessary.

If there are certain applications you would like at startup that require administrator access, you can always set a task that will launch the application with any parameters as an administrator WITHOUT triggering UAC.

amazing to know that!!!!
If they send me a free copy of windows 7 I will use it as freesby!
winzozzzzzz never as mac osx!
buuuullshit!

I worked for a major insurance company that just switched from Windows 2000 to XP last year. So dropping support won't really make a company upgrade. If the OS runs, they don't really need continued support.

How articulate of it.

Defensive Mac users are worse than defensive Windows users.

This is good news for Windows coming from Walt. I've tested it and it's good, for Windows, but just can't compare to Mac OS X on many different levels. That said, that will likely not change so long as Apple and MS maintain their disparate business models. Windows could be less confusing to navigate and more intuitive, but the legacy support that Apple is so quick to do away with simply can't be achieved in the same way with Windows.

I think Windows 7 will find it's way into businesses faster and Mac marketshare may bevdone a little despite selling more units YoY. That is fine by me. I also think this means that WWDC 2010 will demo a visually impressive 10.7. By its release GCD and OpenCL will be taken full advantage of and the rest of Apple's apps will be Cocoa.



Don't encourage him when he's purposely trying to derail a thread.

What? Have you used 7? I'm running the 64-bit version and that thing is as smooth as butter.

Spaces stolen from Apple... LMAO Virtual desktops predate Apple by quite a few years. They'd be stealing a Xerox/*nix idea, not Apple. And to be honest, I've yet to use spaces consistently. It's a useless feature with Exposé, IMHO. Same goes for Windows, and I have used 3rd party VDMs only to return to alt-tab.

I will concede that the registry needs to make an exit, but don't hold your breath. Windows is all about backward compatibility.

I know this is the "common wisdom" (that Mossberg is pro-Apple), but I personally have never seen evidence of it.

I think a lot of pro-Apple pundits take him as one of their own, because he doesn't actively pan Apple products and reviews them all fairly, but he has always done the same thing for Windows as well. His review of Vista was probably the least damning of all the Vista reviews I have read. He correctly pointed out it's many flaws, but found good things to say about it as well. If you read all his stuff you'll find he rarely says anything really bad about anything, so it's not surprising at all that he likes Windows 7. He is typically all about the positive, and always allows when he doesn't like something, that "other views may differ."

A more correct interpretation of Mossberg is that he strives to be an "even-handed" reviewer who goes out of his way to be fair (at least as he sees it). That gets a lot closer to his actual psychology than saying he is "pro-Apple."

Both Mossberg and David Pogue are called "pro-Apple" to the point that their reviews are often ignored as biased, but giving mostly good reviews to Apple products is not evidence of a pro-apple bias if those products are actually good. A "fair" reviewer would report favourably on Apple more than half the time if Apples products are actually better more than half the time. Both Mossberg and Pogue are also among the tiny minority of reviewers that has given Apple reasonably well-informed, critical reviews of their products and both have praised Windows products equally, yet they are "pro-Apple"? I don't get it.

I know most won't agree with me on this but IMO it's just not fair to refer to these guys as biased when they are among the few that are going out of their way not to be.

Whenever someone says "7 is a big change from Vista; I hated Vista but I love 7" I call bullshit. They are not that different. The big difference was between Vista and XP.
By the way, I think Vista was OK once you spent time setting it up a bit, and getting rid if the 'cancel or allow' madness.

So, 7 closer to OSX than Vista? only in the hype-machine.

That's true of any business, though. The path to upgrading is always a slow one. In time, however, enterprise will see the cost-saving benefits of switching to Windows 7.

Less problems, higher standard of security, better group policy and power management tools.... the upgrade really does pay for itself over time.

As someone who bounces between XP, Vista and my personal Windows 7 machine on a daily basis can tell you that Windows 7 is *FAR* better than Vista ever has been. Even fully updated, Vista continues to grind on modern hardware. Its menu system is still cluttered, performance is still sub-par, and you don't have all the taskbar and preview options that are found in Windows 7. Not to mention the security tweaks, including the revamped UAC which is much less annoying and just as protective.

Its more than hype, and if you sat down and compared the two over a period of time, you'd notice the difference.

Exactly. it is so obvious the file is still downloading and the .EXE is 0kb in size.



uh?



of course, he don't know. and he going to be a future CCNA tech. hahahaha.

I find that rather odd. I work for a bank that employs 85,000 people worldwide, and we'd be very concerned if there was no support for the primary dekstop OS. Security patches, compatibility with the latest Sharepoint/Office/WindowsServer software etc are all important.

Now I don't expect support would drop anytime soon, maybe 2012 or so for Corporate customers, but upgrading to a new Windows would take 2 - 3 years, so it's likely to start soon and start putting money in MS's pockets.