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Obama Wins 2009 Nobel Peace Prize - Page 5

post #161 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

I would guess paying taxes to a government, president, he doesn't believe has authority over him is a sacrifice.

What a bitch huh?

Yep. If he is indeed willing to sacrifice his principles and beliefs regarding the constitution, then how on earth can he complain about and even disown others for doing what they perceive to be in their best interests?
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #162 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yep. If he is indeed willing to sacrifice his principles and beliefs regarding the constitution, then how on earth can he complain about and even disown others for doing what they perceive to be in their best interests?

Principles can be a bitch.
post #163 of 355
Wow, this topic turned into a troll feeding fest rather quickly...
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #164 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Sandon

Is there anything that you do, that you would not do, if you were following your beliefs and principles?

Well the massive level of taxation I'm forced to submit to would be top of the list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Sandon

A lot. Lot's and lot's. Obviously as much as possible fits as neatly as can be made to fit into the constitution. But like you are aware, there's plenty bulging at the seams. I personally don't know the full extent to which we have veered from the constitution but am sure that a bunch of isolated and racist white men a few hundred years ago had but a few of the answers to today's problems on their minds at the time and would relish a serious make-over.

Specifics?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Sandon

Yep. If he is indeed willing to sacrifice his principles and beliefs regarding the constitution, then how on earth can he complain about and even disown others for doing what they perceive to be in their best interests?

Not sure what you mean here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Principles can be a bitch.

You don't have any?
post #165 of 355
Back to the topic, though...

No comments on who Barack Obama "beat" to win this?

How do Barack Obama's war actions comport with being a peacemaker?

When will he actually use his executive power to end some wars and warlike actions?
post #166 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

You don't have any?

You admitted being in the minority, yet you still pay what's required by the "landlord".
post #167 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Back to the topic, though...

No comments on who Barack Obama "beat" to win this?

How do Barack Obama's war actions comport with being a peacemaker?

When will he actually use his executive power to end some wars and warlike actions?

If those were real questions I'd answer them.

The first one's irrelevant.

As to the second : Can you name a U.S. president ( under those defintions ) who didn't have " war actions " ?

As to the 3rd he hasn't stopped being president yet has he?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #168 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Back to the topic, though...

No comments on who Barack Obama "beat" to win this?

How do Barack Obama's war actions comport with being a peacemaker?

When will he actually use his executive power to end some wars and warlike actions?

Who gives a crap, he wasn't pushing for it.

Odd as the choice was, how is it his to defend.
post #169 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Who gives a crap, he wasn't pushing for it.

Odd as the choice was, how is it his to defend.

True enough. Just asking people's opinions. When will he do something to live up to it?
post #170 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Well the massive level of taxation I'm forced to submit to would be top of the list.




Specifics?




Not sure what you mean here.




You don't have any?

Why the "Hans" spelling?

Anyway there are lots of stresses and strains on our society as a result of blacks, women and non land owning types getting a full 1 vote per head and they're reproducing at an alarming rate, except the White one's. Obviously having an educated healthy and safe public is beneficial and if that means popping the rich for bucks, who largely squander their wealth in under six generations, then so be it.

Any more specefics will be tomorrow from me as it's late here in the home of the Magna Carta Libertatum.

ps If you are willing to sacrifice your principles and beliefs are their any you won't back down on and if so what are they?
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #171 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

P.S. I am curious if you would have found this position as objectionable during the Bush administration.

Yes. For better or for worse (mostly worse) that person was my President for 8 years and I didn't like or vote for him either. So what? The POTUS is POTUS and deserves respect. Even if he was a moron.

We have a system of government that sees peaceful transition of power every 4 to 8 years. If you don't like the guy or gal in office you get to vote them out in 4 years. What you don't get to do is disown them like a whiney little baby while claiming to love the constitution. Except on the internet I guess. Or talk radio.
post #172 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

And many others and yet you turn the other cheek. LOL.

In this one it was getting particularly bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Your not a repub, aka Republican are you? That would explain your maneuvering. It reminds me of a snake in the grass. I'd like to think you hear their dying screams and murmurs in your quiet moments, but I guess if they don't fit into your political view they're better not being around for you anyway.

As most people know, I'm a Canadian, so neither Republican nor Democrat.
I lean conservative on most political issues.

I'm a citizen of a country that has single-payer health care, and so feel a bit qualified to comment on the utopia it brings where everyone dies of old age and hospital ER waits are fifteen minutes.

If I hear such screams, I assume they're liberals who finally understand how the world works.
And I smile and go back to bed.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #173 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Is that the only answer to 45,000 dead American's a year you can come up with. Holy _ _ _ _!

No, but that answered your false claim that only Republicans are responsible. No political group holds that much power. NONE.

And for your 45000 number:
http://www.boston.com/news/health/bl...ured_hold.html
Quote:
Researchers from Cambridge Health Alliance report in the American Journal of Public Health on a study that followed 9,005 adults under 65 years old who took part in a national survey conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from 1986 through 1994. After 12 years, 351 people had died. Sixty of them were uninsured and 291 were insured.

After accounting for age, education, income, and other factors, the researchers found that people without private insurance had a 40 percent higher risk of dying than people with private insurance. An earlier study by the Institute of Medicine based on 16 years of data through 1993 found that uninsured people had a 25 percent higher risk of dying than insured people, which translated into 18,000 additional deaths.

So more people died with insurance than without? [sarcasm] Great, extrapolating from that I should dump my coverage now and save my life! [/sarcasm] The study I am sure had some good ideas behind it, but extrapolation is not reality. That is a made up number. If you want to get up in arms, find 45000 truly dead people who did not have insurance, and their deaths are attributed to not having insurance. Interview their families to see why they do not have insurance and then link it all back to ONLY Republicans. When you can do that I will abandon my stand of, DEM and REP are both equally responsible for the state of the US right now. They both had their times in the sun and neither side made any appreciable changes. For the past 50 years.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #174 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yes. For better or for worse (mostly worse) that person was my President for 8 years and I didn't like or vote for him either. So what? The POTUS is POTUS and deserves respect. Even if he was a moron.

I guess we disagree then. I don't subscribe to the idea that someone deserves respect simply because they able to con enough people to vote for them. They actually have to do something worthy of respect. Respect is earned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

We have a system of government that sees peaceful transition of power every 4 to 8 years. If you don't like the guy or gal in office you get to vote them out in 4 years.

Thanks. I'll try to remember that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

What you don't get to do is disown them like a whiney little baby while claiming to love the constitution. Except on the internet I guess. Or talk radio.

I can do what I want, and you can characterize it however you like.

And, with that, back to the thread topic...

What, in everyone's opinion, would Barack Obama need to do to actually deserve this great honor?
post #175 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

I guess we disagree then. I don't subscribe to the idea that someone deserves respect simply because they able to con enough people to vote for them. They actually have to do something worthy of respect. Respect is earned.




Thanks. I'll try to remember that.




I can do what I want, and you can characterize it however you like.

And, with that, back to the thread topic...

What, in everyone's opinion, would Barack Obama need to do to actually deserve this great honor?

From an objective standpoint? Absolutely nothing.

The award was given to Obama and he's already made the decision to accept said award.

Game over. It's in the can. It's a done deal. It's already happened. It's one for the history books.

What don't you understand about past tense?
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post #176 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

And for your 45000 number:

Yeah, that figure was debunked in a previous thread but Hands either didn't follow the link or refuses to consider things that don't support his position.

Quote:
A new study in the American Journal of Public Health claiming that lack of health insurance increases the risk of death by 40% is flawed, according to the National Center for Policy Analysis.

“The findings in this research are based on faulty methodology and the death risk is significantly overstated”
...
A more careful study using a similar approach by former Congressional Budget Office Director June O’Neill found that for low-income people, uninsurance increased the probability of dying by only 3% and for higher-income people uninsurance had no impact on mortality.
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/06012009_oneill.pdf

http://www.heartland.org/full/26010/...ity_Rates.html
post #177 of 355
Some reactions:

Quote:
YUKIO HATOYAMA, JAPANESE PRIME MINISTER
I am really pleased. I want to congratulate him from my heart. I've seen the world changing since President Obama took office. It was outstanding when he made the speech in Prague calling for a nuclear-free world.

Quote:
MOHAMED ELBARADEI, HEAD OF THE INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER
There is nobody today in my view who is more deserving of that peace prize than Barack Obama. In less than a year he brought a radical change in the way we look at ourselves, in the way we look at our world. He is restoring the basic core values that every one of us should live by - dialogue, respect, democracy, due process, human rights, a security system that does not depend on nuclear weapons. His dedication to these values rekindles hope that, finally, we could have a world at peace with itself.

Quote:
MIKHAIL GORBACHEV, FORMER SOVIET LEADER AND NOBEL PRIZE WINNER
I am happy. What Obama did during his presidency is a big signal, he gave hope. In these hard times, people who are capable of taking responsibility, who have a vision, commitment and political will should be supported.

Interestingly enough, the GOP sides with the Taliban:

Quote:
TALIBAN SPOKESMAN ZABIHULLAH MUJAHID
We have seen no change in his strategy for peace. He has done nothing for peace in Afghanistan. He has not taken a single step for peace in Afghanistan or to make this country stable.
We condemn the award of the Nobel Peace Prize for Obama. We condemn the institute's awarding him the peace prize. We condemn this year's peace prize as unjust.
post #178 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by buceta View Post

Interestingly enough, the GOP sides with the Taliban:

And so do liberal Australians:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/...ace-prize-win/
Quote:
South Australian Liberal senator Simon Birmingham said the decision was a mistake.

"I think it's slightly embarrassing for probably both him and for the status of the Nobel Peace Prize for the award to have gone to him," he said.

"To think that in less than a year he has made any notable difference to world peace is hard to fathom."

I guess that makes the GOP, Liberal Australians and the Taliban part of Al-Qaeda.
post #179 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by buceta View Post

Some reactions:







Interestingly enough, the GOP sides with the Taliban:

I almost inhaled my breakfast on that last one!

They really need to stop that. But first they have to admit there's a problem.
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post #180 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

And so do liberal Australians:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/...ace-prize-win/
I guess that makes the GOP, Liberal Australians and the Taliban part of Al-Qaeda.

At the beginning of the article there's also this :
Quote:
A Liberal MP says giving the Nobel Peace Prize to US President Barack Obama is "slightly embarrassing" and diminishes the value of the award.

Not exactly the same thing as " Condemning ".
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post #181 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by buceta View Post

Some reactions:

Interestingly enough, the GOP sides with the Taliban:

I don't recall any government calling the Taliban to see what they thought so that they can ensure that they don't accidentally say something that might be construed as the same ideology and as support of that particular group. Maybe all governments should call terrorist or extreme organizations to see what their talking points will be and then say exactly the opposite. That way they won't end up on the business end of your specious arguments.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #182 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

At the beginning of the article there's also this :

Not exactly the same thing as " Condemning ".

The rhetoric is toned down, but the end result is the same, not agreement.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #183 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I don't recall any government calling the Taliban to see what they thought so that they can ensure that they don't accidentally say something that might be construed as the same ideology and as support of that particular group. Maybe all governments should call terrorist or extreme organizations to see what their talking points will be and then say exactly the opposite. That way they won't end up on the business end of your specious arguments.

Then watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YaUiIo0hSA
post #184 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

The rhetoric is toned down, but the end result is the same, not agreement.

Yeah, I'm seeing the GOP being less like the Taliban and more like liberal Australians in this.

I guess it depends on how bad you want to make the folks who don't believe the prize was deserved look.
post #185 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by buceta View Post

Then watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YaUiIo0hSA

And that has anything to with me how? Which Gov't does Rush lead again?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #186 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by buceta View Post

Then watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YaUiIo0hSA

ROTFLMFAO!

Well at least one wingnutian is part and parcel with the Taliban.

And since his 10M+ listeners are all proportedly dittoheads ...
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post #187 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

ROTFLMFAO!

Well at least one wingnutian is part and parcel with the Taliban.

And since his 10M+ listeners are all proportedly dittoheads ...

Guilt by association? That's an assertion that I don't think you want to make.

Consider the case of Richard Strandlof, aka Rick Duncan. He was a trotted out as a "war hero", a marine officer who was prominently featured in a number of campaign ads in Colorado for Democratic candidates.

He's also a liar who was just arrested by the FBI on 'stolen valor' charges.

Seems he didn't really survive the 9/11 attacks on the Pentagon and a roadside bomb in Iraq. The reality? He wasn't at the Pentagon. He was never a Marine. He never served his country. He never graduated from the Naval Academy. Democratic candidates who used him to push their message are either stupid, lazy or liars, or some combination ... or all of the above.

So, guilt by association can look damning... but should one go there? You tell me.
post #188 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Guilt by association? That's an assertion that I don't think you want to make.

Consider the case of Richard Strandlof, aka Rick Duncan. He was a trotted out as a "war hero", a marine officer who was prominently featured in a number of campaign ads in Colorado for Democratic candidates.

He's also a liar who was just arrested by the FBI on 'stolen valor' charges.

Seems he didn't really survive the 9/11 attacks on the Pentagon and a roadside bomb in Iraq. The reality? He wasn't at the Pentagon. He was never a Marine. He never served his country. He never graduated from the Naval Academy. Democratic candidates who used him to push their message are either stupid, lazy or liars, or some combination ... or all of the above.

So, guilt by association can look damning... but should one go there? You tell me.

Safe harbor worde usen in my post proportedly.

Dude, I am way, Way, WAY ahead of you on this one.
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post #189 of 355
I hear that somewhere else today. Something about Guilt By Association....

OH YEAH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Guilt by association is a logical fallacy.

At least that is what he said in that other thread... \
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #190 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I hear that somewhere else today. Something about Guilt By Association....

OH YEAH!



At least that is what he said in that other thread... \

You are the one who's caught up in guilt by association, I simply made two independent statements, you however connected some dots.

You are the one guilty of association of my two independent statements.

Gotcha!
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post #191 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

You are the one who's caught up in guilt by association, I simply made two independent statements, you however connected some dots.

You are the one guilty of association of my two independent statements.

Gotcha!

I know it is a stretch to associate you with your own statements... You don't even believe them...

You make a claim that since a person states they agree with the Taliban on a singular point they are "part and parcel with the Taliban." Guilt by association.

Then you further go on to state that, "And since his 10M+ listeners are all proportedly dittoheads ..." Guilty of association with the prior and through his association what must that trailing ellipse possibly mean?

Hypocrite.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #192 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I know it is a stretch to associate you with your own statements... You don't even believe them...

You make a claim that since a person states they agree with the Taliban on a singular point they are "part and parcel with the Taliban." Guilt by association.

Then you further go on to state that, "And since his 10M+ listeners are all proportedly dittoheads ..." Guilty of association with the prior and through his association what must that trailing ellipse possibly mean?

Hypocrite.

You are the one connecting the dots I left behind me.

Are Rush's listeners, in fact, dittoheads? Proported or otherwise?

I honestly don't know, as I woulld need some objective metrics to gage the accuracy of said statement.

Did or did not Rush associate himself with the Taliban? Why, yes, in fact, he did.

Go back and view the linked clip of Rush for yourself, if you don't believe me.
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post #193 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Yeah, that figure was debunked in a previous thread but Hands either didn't follow the link or refuses to consider things that don't support his position.


http://www.heartland.org/full/26010/...ity_Rates.html


Roughly 1 in 1000 uninsured people will die this year from lack of health insurance. That's approximately 45,000 out of approximately 45,000,000.

A 1993 examination of 1971 through 1987 data on 25- to 74-year-olds from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey found a 25 percent higher risk of mortality for the uninsured compared with the insured, after adjusting for various factors, such as age, smoking, alcohol consumption, obesity, education and income. The study, by lead researcher Peter Franks, was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.
In 2002, the Institute of Medicine, basing its work on the Franks study and another examining Current Population Survey data, found that 18,000 people (age 25 to 64) died because they lacked health insurance in 2000. (Ayanian added in his testimony that for those with heart disease or cancer and without health insurance, the risk of death for the uninsured could be 40 percent to 50 percent higher.)
In 2008, the Urban Institute updated the IOM numbers, using later Census Bureau estimates on the uninsured. It found that in 2006, the number who died because of a lack of insurance was 22,000. The Urban Institute also said that the IOM figure "may have underestimated the number of deaths" by trying to calculate different mortality-rate differences for each age group, an approach the Urban Institute said wasnt well grounded in the research. Applying a mortality-rate difference to the entire population under study produced an even higher number, 27,000.
The latest report by Harvard researchers used the methodology of IOM but more recent data. It found that the uninsured are 40 percent more likely to die prematurely. And it expanded the age group a bit, estimating that among adults age 18 to 64, there were 35,327 deaths linked to a lack of insurance in 2005. Calculating the estimate without a breakdown by age group increased the figure to 44,789.
A 2007 report published in the Journal of General Internal Medicine examined data for adults age 45 to 64 from the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities Study, sponsored by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, finding that the uninsured had a 26 percent higher mortality.





Your study-


-Another recent report, written by former Congressional Budget Office Director June ONeill and her husband, economist Dave ONeill, said "that lack of health insurance is not likely to be the major factor causing higher mortality rates among the uninsured. The uninsured particularly the involuntarily uninsured have multiple disadvantages that in themselves are associated with poor health." Those disadvantages include education level and income. The ONeills study, published by the conservative Employment Policies Institute, separated those it deemed "voluntarily uninsured" (anyone earning 2.5 times the poverty level) from those considered to be "involuntarily uninsured." The study looked at data on persons aged 51 to 61 from the Health and Retirement Survey and determined the "involuntarily uninsured" had an 11 percent higher probability of dying; the number dropped to 3 percent when controlling for smoking as well as education and income. The voluntarily uninsured had a 2 percent to 3 percent greater probability of dying. EPI, the publisher of the study, supports business interests and has said that the living wage campaign is an organized effort to force employees to inject a welfare mentality into the workplace.

~ http://factcheck.org/2009/09/dying-f...-of-insurance/
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #194 of 355
The Employment Policies Institute was founded by Richard Berman. Taskiss this guys worse than your climate change guys and that's really saying something!

"Richard Berman is a Washington-based lobbyist. Through his public affairs firm Berman and Company, Berman runs several industry-funded non-profit organizations such as the Center for Consumer Freedom[1] and the Center for Union Facts.[2] Berman's companies have run numerous media campaigns downplaying the dangers of obesity, smoking, mad cow disease, drunk driving, the minimum wage and other issues.[3][4]

60 Minutes has called him "the booze and food industries' weapon of mass destruction,"[4] and his nickname (from both friends and enemies) is "Dr. Evil",[4][3] an alias in which he takes pride."
In the mid-1990s, Berman was funded by tobacco giant Phillip Morris to fight the movement to add non-smoking sections in restaurants.[3]

In the 1990s, Berman was the president of Beverage Retailers Against Drunk Driving (BRADD), an organization formed to combat Mothers Against Drunk Driving.[6] As president, he argued for "tolerance of social drinking."[6] He has also worked as a consultant for the Minimum Wage Coalition to Save Jobs.[6] In 1991, he created the Employment Policies Institute to argue "the importance of minimum wage jobs for the poor and uneducated."

Organizations controlled by Berman include:

The Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF), originally named the Guest Choice Network (GCN). CCF serves as an adovocate for restaurants, meat, dairy, food processors, and alcohol. The group was formed in 1995 with funding from tobacco giant Phillip Morris.[11][12] The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Union of Concerned Scientists, Center for Science in the Public Interest, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals have been challenged by CCF.[12] In late 2006, the company initiated a campaign to downplay the level of mercury in fish; their website encourages pregnant women to eat more fish (which the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency‎ have recommended against for years), and calls findings that don't support their claims "scare tactics."[13][14]
The American Beverage Institute (ABI), which fights against increasingly laws designed to criminalize alcohol consumption, including the push to further raise existing blood-alcohol arrest thresholds.[15]
The Employment Policies Institute (EPI), which is opposed to raising the minimum wage, particularly in the labor-intensive restaurant industry.[15] It points to academic studies alleging that increases in the minimum wage lead to job losses, particularly among the poor and uneducated.[15] During an interview on the Rachel Maddow show Berman claimed the minimum wage was $50,000 per year, a blatant lie as the maximum possible yearly pay (using Washington state's $8.55/hour) for a standard 40 hour workweek is $17,784 *before* taxes.

Though Berman and Company do not publicly name their clients, several of their identities have been outed to the press over the years. Among the parties named have been The Coca-Cola Company,[4] Tyson Foods,[4] Outback Steakhouse,[16][4] Wendy's International, Inc.,[4] Brinker International (parent company of Chili's and Macaroni Grill),[15] Arby's,[15] Hooters,[16] and Red Lobster.[16]

~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Berman
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #195 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

The rhetoric is toned down, but the end result is the same, not agreement.

Uh no! The end result is not the same just because you say so. They are two distinctly different takes on the subject.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #196 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Uh no! The end result is not the same just because you say so. They are two distinctly different takes on the subject.

Um yes, just because you say so does not change the end result of the arguments. They do not agree with the giving of the prize, so the end result of the statements, Disagreement. However, one is an elected official and the other doesn't care how you interpret their words.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #197 of 355
Couldn't help it. This one explains it all. http://www.gocomics.com/slowpoke/2009/10/12/

Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #198 of 355
Why not. It is just as good a reason as any other at this point.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #199 of 355


Hehe.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #200 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I think I'll just call you a troll and be on my way with this thread.

Isn't that against the rules here?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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