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Apple seeds second beta of Mac OS X 10.6.2 to developers

post #1 of 82
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Apple has seeded its developers with a second beta release of its Mac OS X 10.6.2 update, which incorporates numerous fixes for a wide variety of issues.

People familiar with the latest build, dubbed 10C519f, said the update addresses nearly 150 "general focus areas" ranging from applications like Address Book, Photo Booth and QuickTime Player to core services including Front Row, Spaces, and Time Machine.

The update also specifically targets WWAN support for mobile data services and enhances Exchange support, MobileMe and iDisk features, as well as NTFS and WebDAV file system support.

The new beta also addresses specific issues related to the app switching in the Dock, performance and stability issues tied to graphics drivers and the OpenCL compiler, as well as patches impacting bugs in Parental Controls Preview, printing, and the software update mechanism itself.

Friday's release is the second version of Mac OS X 10.6.2 that has been exposed to Apple's third party developers, and comes hot on the heels of the previous beta released on Monday. It will eventually be released to users as the second free maintenance update for Snow Leopard.

Released just days after the launch of Snow Leopard, Mac OS X 10.6.1 addressed printer issues, updated the Adobe Flash Player plug-in, and resolved issues with the Mail application, among other fixes.
post #2 of 82
All I care about is if it fixes the USB audio issues plaguing Virtual software (screeching/popping/howling).

I had to revert to Leopard and haven't been able to upgrade because of it.
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post #3 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

performance and stability issues tied to graphics drivers

If this means better support for the GTX 285 I can't wait!
post #4 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarman View Post

If this means better support for the GTX 285 I can't wait!

Yes, here too. My EVGA 285GTX performs like a muzzled dog (on a leash).
post #5 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post

Yes, here too. My EVGA 285GTX performs like a muzzled dog (on a leash).

On one of the articles over on Phoronix.com they benched marked a Mini which had a significant regression with respect to OpenGL. Apparently Apple knows about this and it is expected to be addressed.

This hasn't been an issue for me but I do wonder if these fixes will lead to even faster MBP (my machine). Actually I hope this update breaks nothing as I've grown to like SL. It is good to see an old machine get faster.

It is interesting that they are rapidly fixing LLVM up. This song with CLang seem to be Apples path forward. It is kinda of impressive that compilers as young as these are doing as well as they are.


Dave
post #6 of 82
Stability fixes are always good. It would be nice if we had a few new features thrown in one of these maintenance releases, but maybe I'm asking for too much.
post #7 of 82
I'll repeat my question from Monday. Did they fix (read: "bring back the old") Exposé yet?
post #8 of 82
Pardon my ignorance, but does giving it to developers mean that they have to do something to it before it can be disseminated to users? If not, what do they do with it?
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post #9 of 82
Has Apple addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?
post #10 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAllan View Post

I'll repeat my question from Monday. Did they fix (read: "bring back the old") Exposé yet?

Sorry, but it's not broke just because you liked the previous version better. I miss how stuff used to get arranged. But the new version has quite a bit to like. This is the future. Be flexible
post #11 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAllan View Post

I'll repeat my question from Monday. Did they fix (read: "bring back the old") Exposé yet?

God I hope not, the Leopard Exposé was horrible. Unusable really. Not that Snow Leopards is perfect, but a lot better IMO.
post #12 of 82
In Leopard I was able to drag images from Safari directly onto the Photoshop icon in the Dock to edit it in Photoshop, in Snow Leopard that feature does not seem to work. I had to resolve to copying it to my desktop first.

Not a huge inconvenience, nevertheless it was a nice feature. I hope they bring it back in this fix.
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post #13 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Stability fixes are always good. It would be nice if we had a few new features thrown in one of these maintenance releases, but maybe I'm asking for too much.

Why would you even be thinking that they would add new features to non major releases?
post #14 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarlen View Post

Has Apple addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?

Sounds like something Adobe would need to address, not Apple. I haven't had any problem with it under SL though. Have you checked the Adobe forums?
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post #15 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarlen View Post

Has Apple addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?

What crashing? CS4 performs flawlessly here. And I'm using SL.
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post #16 of 82
I continue to expect, based on the history of 10.x.2 releases, that 10.6.2 will be released in October.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Stability fixes are always good. It would be nice if we had a few new features thrown in one of these maintenance releases, but maybe I'm asking for too much.

We sometimes get new drivers in the minor releases.

I wish we would get a fully-functional and polished implementation of Resolution Independence, but I fear that we must wait for 10.7.
Mac user since August 1983.
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post #17 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Pardon my ignorance, but does giving it to developers mean that they have to do something to it before it can be disseminated to users? If not, what do they do with it?

Yes.
Developers are asked to test, test and test again.
Against their own applications, of course, and testing in general.
post #18 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

I continue to expect, based on the history of 10.x.2 releases, that 10.6.2 will be released in October.


We sometimes get new drivers in the minor releases.

I wish we would get a fully-functional and polished implementation of Resolution Independence, but I fear that we must wait for 10.7.

Amiga OS had that capability back in 1991. In some ways, it was a beautiful OS.
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post #19 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Why would you even be thinking that they would add new features to non major releases?

Actually, in a way, Apple might add a significant feature. They note NTFS changes. NTFS writing is currently turned off by default in Snow Leopard. Turning it on is pretty much a hack and very flaky. So if Apple fixes this, it could be a new feature for us.

I really hope there are WiFi fixes, specifically the ability to temporarily change the MAC address.
post #20 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

Pardon my ignorance, but does giving it to developers mean that they have to do something to it before it can be disseminated to users? If not, what do they do with it?

They test it against the apps they have or are developing. They report back
to Apple any gliches or wrinkles they find and Apple adjust the OS.
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post #21 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

Actually, in a way, Apple might add a significant feature. They note NTFS changes. NTFS writing is currently turned off by default in Snow Leopard. Turning it on is pretty much a hack and very flaky. So if Apple fixes this, it could be a new feature for us.

I really hope there are WiFi fixes, specifically the ability to temporarily change the MAC address.

Not a hack at all. NTFS-3G is a mature piece of software. It's also open source, and free.
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post #22 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

Why would you even be thinking that they would add new features to non major releases?

It's a matter of degree. In previous 'maintenance' releases Apple has changed certain functionality and added minor features along the way. Not everything has to wait for the next major point release.
post #23 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Sorry, but it's not broke just because you liked the previous version better. I miss how stuff used to get arranged. But the new version has quite a bit to like. This is the future. Be flexible

Nobody said it was broke [sic] just because they liked the previous version better. It's broken because it (a) removes features from the previous version; (b) breaks Apple's Human Interface Guidelines. Whether it's a bug or broken by design is a question of judgment, but it is objectively true that it is broken.
post #24 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtKaffee View Post

Nobody said it was broke [sic] just because they liked the previous version better. It's broken because it (a) removes features from the previous version; (b) breaks Apple's Human Interface Guidelines. Whether it's a bug or broken by design is a question of judgment, but it is objectively true that it is broken.

What features are missing? What is non-subjectively broke about it?

When they changed Exposé late in SL development I was ecstatic that it finally worked the way I always wanted it to. I was a heavy Exposé user before, but now Except for anti-aliasing there is nothing I can think to change or add to it.
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post #25 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What features are missing? What is non-subjectively broke about it?

When they changed Exposé late in SL development I was ecstatic that it finally worked the way I always wanted it to. I was a heavy Exposé user before, but now… Except for anti-aliasing there is nothing I can think to change or add to it.

I'll give you one clearly, objectively broken thing.

Open TextEdit. Write "minimized" in the window, and then minimize it (with the yellow button). Open a new window. Write "Not minimized" in that window. Then use Command-H to hide TextEdit. Then view "All Windows" in Expose. Notice how the MINIMIZED window shows up in Expose, but the NOT MINIMIZED window does not show up in Expose.

That behaviour makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. When I hide an application, I don't want to see any of its windows in Expose. And it's especially counterintuitive to display a minimized window, but not a maximized window. I minimized the one that I'm least likely to use, in order to get it out of the way. Why on earth would I want to see that one but not the other one?

Other minor (subjective) complaints with the new Expose's All Windows: I wish that they wouldn't change the relative sizes of the windows, and I also liked the layout of Expose in Leopard better as well.
post #26 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller_007 View Post

I'll give you one clearly, objectively broken thing.

Open TextEdit. Write "minimized" in the window, and then minimize it (with the yellow button). Open a new window. Write "Not minimized" in that window. Then use Command-H to hide TextEdit. Then view "All Windows" in Expose. Notice how the MINIMIZED window shows up in Expose, but the NOT MINIMIZED window does not show up in Expose.

That behaviour makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. When I hide an application, I don't want to see any of its windows in Expose. And it's especially counterintuitive to display a minimized window, but not a maximized window. I minimized the one that I'm least likely to use, in order to get it out of the way. Why on earth would I want to see that one but not the other one?

I never use the Hide app option so I would never have come across that feature, but I agree that its bad design. Either the whole app should be hidden from Exposé or all windows should show up in Exposé. This seems like something that should be submitted to Apple. Thanks for the clear example.
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post #27 of 82
For the last couple of years the Mail rules window will go off the screen when there are more than 25 rules entries... ie filter to a mail box for 25+ mail sources.

The rules window will extend off the bottom of the screen removing the control buttons from view and mouse cursor access. Clicking the window size buttons resizes the window level below the rules windows so is no help.

I have confirmed this problem several times with Apple phone support techs. Each time they are first amazed at the existence of the problem, second.. promise to put in a trouble report to the correct group. So far their efforts and a ton of emails reporting the problem have been sent to future congress people... apparently they can not read.

Any one else want to try this? Create a rule... enter 25 or more conditions. Then see if the window buttons are visible.

Jim
post #28 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism

I never use the Hide app option so I would never have come across that feature, but I agree that it’s bad design. Either the whole app should be hidden from Exposé or all windows should show up in Exposé. This seems like something that should be submitted to Apple. Thanks for the clear example.

Submitted it pre-10.6.1... Here's hoping for a fix in 10.6.2.

Besides, that's minor stuff. If you want a really egregious, unforgivable bug in Snow Leopard, Calculator has got it.

First on my list of piss-offs is that the caret (Shift+6) doesn't do exponentiation like you'd expect. In fact, Shift+6 does the exact opposite; it takes the nth root of something.

Second, it can't parse mathematical expressions correctly. Try calculating 5^2*5^2. (The caret here indicates exponentiation.) On a real scientific calculator (and on Calculator in 10.4 and 10.5), it's parsed as "pow(5,2)*pow(5,2)" and the answer is 625. In Snow Leopard, it's parsed as "pow(pow(5,2)*5,2)" and the answer is 15625.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Climbing up the scale of stupidity, calculator can't even do simple arithmetic anymore. Open the "Paper Tape" window and then calculate 90-2.2. If you have 15-digits of accuracy enabled (which is the default setting), then you'll be quite surprised to learn that the answer is actually 87.799999999999997.

And a final glitch. Open up calculator about 20 times. You'll find that some of those times will have a bright "LCD" and some of those times it will have a dark "LCD".
post #29 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Sounds like something Adobe would need to address, not Apple. I haven't had any problem with it under SL though. Have you checked the Adobe forums?

This is a known issue that Apple has acknowledged they own. I was told a fix was being qualified. Hopefully that means it is part of .2!
post #30 of 82
There's a bug in Snow Leopard that prevents mounting volumes via AFP on Netware and OES Linux and when attempting to mount OS 9 shares under OS X. The bug was present in earlier builds of Snow Leopard, but wasn't fixed in the final release.

A friend has a cluster of old macs running OS 9 for some work and can no longer get to them from OS X after I upgraded his system to Snow Leopard.

To say he's pissed would be an understatement.
post #31 of 82
You can see there are built-in drivers for Huawei 3G modems in Snow Leopard, but they don't work yet. Hopefully they are up and running in 10.6.2 !
post #32 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAllan View Post

I'll repeat my question from Monday. Did they fix (read: "bring back the old") Exposé yet?

Exposé works fine the way it is. I would have to say most think it is an improvement. It is a change though that you have to give a little time to adapt to.



Dave
post #33 of 82
Hopefully there's a QT X Pro in that release.. or at least let users disable QT X and use the Quicktime Pro 7 ALL THE TIME.
post #34 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller_007 View Post

I'll give you one clearly, objectively broken thing.

Open TextEdit. Write "minimized" in the window, and then minimize it (with the yellow button). Open a new window. Write "Not minimized" in that window. Then use Command-H to hide TextEdit. Then view "All Windows" in Expose. Notice how the MINIMIZED window shows up in Expose, but the NOT MINIMIZED window does not show up in Expose.

That behaviour makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. When I hide an application, I don't want to see any of its windows in Expose. And it's especially counterintuitive to display a minimized window, but not a maximized window. I minimized the one that I'm least likely to use, in order to get it out of the way. Why on earth would I want to see that one but not the other one?

Other minor (subjective) complaints with the new Expose's All Windows: I wish that they wouldn't change the relative sizes of the windows, and I also liked the layout of Expose in Leopard better as well.

Yes, I understand why this might look like a bug but, frankly, I doubt I would have ever stumbled across this without having read your post.

OTOH, I'm not sure the behavior is wrong and I say this because OS X, unlike Windows, behaves in a "document-centric" mode instead of "application-centric" mode. In your example, you chose to minimize (functionally that means place) the first document into the Dock. For the second document, you chose to simply hide it which is different. When invoking Expose, it shows the non-hidden docs which would includes the first TextEdit file you created but not the second. That's document-centric behavior playing out even though it might seem a bit odd.
post #35 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrarlen View Post

Has Apple addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?

CS4 is not crashing for me. Not even once and I'm a heavy user of Photoshop.

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post #36 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Exposé works fine the way it is. I would have to say most think it is an improvement. It is a change though that you have to give a little time to adapt to.
Dave

Actually, expose has a nasty regression. You used to be able to expose windows and then use TAB key to cycle through exposed windows. Now TAB key cycles through applications and their open windows. If you want to navigate through the exposed windows you have to reach for the arrow keys, but you still can't cycle through windows, you can go backward forward.

Now this is really bad on two fronts. You don't redefine what most frequently used keyboard shortcut does (TAB key). Also, if I have to leave the home row and reach for the arrow keys, I might as well go all the way and use the mouse. So, new expose makes keyboard useless (which is where it is most useful conceptually for switching windows). I would say the way it is currently, expose is completely useless to anyone that uses the keyboard (which should be almost everyone).

To really fix this mess, apple needs to allow customization of expose navigation keys. That way those of us used to VI can define h,j,k,l as keys to navigate through exposed windows instead of arrows and use TAB for cycling between exposed windows, and something else for application windows.

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post #37 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post

There's a bug in Snow Leopard that prevents mounting volumes via AFP on Netware and OES Linux and when attempting to mount OS 9 shares under OS X. The bug was present in earlier builds of Snow Leopard, but wasn't fixed in the final release.

A friend has a cluster of old macs running OS 9 for some work and can no longer get to them from OS X after I upgraded his system to Snow Leopard.

To say he's pissed would be an understatement.

I would probably just use FTP until it's resolved.
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post #38 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

Actually, expose has a nasty regression. You used to be able to expose windows and then use TAB key to cycle through exposed windows. Now TAB key cycles through applications and their open windows. If you want to navigate through the exposed windows you have to reach for the arrow keys, but you still can't cycle through windows, you can go backward forward.

Now this is really bad on two fronts. You don't redefine what most frequently used keyboard shortcut does (TAB key). Also, if I have to leave the home row and reach for the arrow keys, I might as well go all the way and use the mouse. So, new expose makes keyboard useless (which is where it is most useful conceptually for switching windows). I would say the way it is currently, expose is completely useless to anyone that uses the keyboard (which should be almost everyone).

To really fix this mess, apple needs to allow customization of expose navigation keys. That way those of us used to VI can define h,j,k,l as keys to navigate through exposed windows instead of arrows and use TAB for cycling between exposed windows, and something else for application windows.

You assume you are the majority in the way that you do things. I didn't even notice a functional difference in Expose. I set Expose to open with my mouse button 4. I don't use my keyboard at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller_007

I'll give you one clearly, objectively broken thing

Open TextEdit. Write "minimized" in the window, and then minimize it (with the yellow button). Open a new window. Write "Not minimized" in that window. Then use Command-H to hide TextEdit. Then view "All Windows" in Expose. Notice how the MINIMIZED window shows up in Expose, but the NOT MINIMIZED window does not show up in Expose.

That behaviour makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. When I hide an application, I don't want to see any of its windows in Expose. And it's especially counterintuitive to display a minimized window, but not a maximized window. I minimized the one that I'm least likely to use, in order to get it out of the way. Why on earth would I want to see that one but not the other one?

Other minor (subjective) complaints with the new Expose's All Windows: I wish that they wouldn't change the relative sizes of the windows, and I also liked the layout of Expose in Leopard better as well.

When I repeated your test under Leopard 10.5.8, I see neither. Only when they were not minimized or hidden did Expose show either.
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post #39 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller_007 View Post

Submitted it pre-10.6.1... Here's hoping for a fix in 10.6.2.

Besides, that's minor stuff. If you want a really egregious, unforgivable bug in Snow Leopard, Calculator has got it.

First on my list of piss-offs is that the caret (Shift+6) doesn't do exponentiation like you'd expect. In fact, Shift+6 does the exact opposite; it takes the nth root of something.

Second, it can't parse mathematical expressions correctly. Try calculating 5^2*5^2. (The caret here indicates exponentiation.) On a real scientific calculator (and on Calculator in 10.4 and 10.5), it's parsed as "pow(5,2)*pow(5,2)" and the answer is 625. In Snow Leopard, it's parsed as "pow(pow(5,2)*5,2)" and the answer is 15625.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Climbing up the scale of stupidity, calculator can't even do simple arithmetic anymore. Open the "Paper Tape" window and then calculate 90-2.2. If you have 15-digits of accuracy enabled (which is the default setting), then you'll be quite surprised to learn that the answer is actually 87.799999999999997.

And a final glitch. Open up calculator about 20 times. You'll find that some of those times will have a bright "LCD" and some of those times it will have a dark "LCD".

This is actually pretty pathetic considering the history of calculators on PCs in general, you would think that they would learn. It is even worst to see regressions like the above. At least some of these look like an attempt to use floating point which is likely a mistake.

Considering the modern hardware that these calculators run on, the expectation would be for the use of a BCD or other sound numercal method. It isn't askng to much for 16 to 20 digits of decimal accuracy these days. Even with BCD a modern PC would still be plenty interactive.

Beside didn't Next Step supply a library for high precision math. Also the parsing errors are a bit of a joke too. Maybe Apple ought to consider contracting the calculator code out to HP or TI.

I do hope you report all the errors you are finding. Maybe ship off an E-Mail to Steve @ Apple. He would certainly be able to put a little presure on the team working on this software. More so he could set new standards that might assure quality results.


Dave
post #40 of 82
That may be why I haven't found anything to complain about yet. To much time spent with ones hands welded to the keyboard results in fatique. At least for me it does. Plus I've have co-workers that have gone through Carpel Tunnel surgery and I'd like to avoid that

As to keyboard configuration I would agree with you there. One should be able to do so if one wanted to. I actually thought that elwas possible, but I'm away from my MBP right now so I could be wrong. Honestly though Apples mouse centric approach likely serves more people well than the alternatives.

In any event a big update to SL isn't far away maybe this will be addressed soon. The reality is they can't make everyone happy.


Dave



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

Actually, expose has a nasty regression. You used to be able to expose windows and then use TAB key to cycle through exposed windows. Now TAB key cycles through applications and their open windows. If you want to navigate through the exposed windows you have to reach for the arrow keys, but you still can't cycle through windows, you can go backward forward.

Now this is really bad on two fronts. You don't redefine what most frequently used keyboard shortcut does (TAB key). Also, if I have to leave the home row and reach for the arrow keys, I might as well go all the way and use the mouse. So, new expose makes keyboard useless (which is where it is most useful conceptually for switching windows). I would say the way it is currently, expose is completely useless to anyone that uses the keyboard (which should be almost everyone).

To really fix this mess, apple needs to allow customization of expose navigation keys. That way those of us used to VI can define h,j,k,l as keys to navigate through exposed windows instead of arrows and use TAB for cycling between exposed windows, and something else for application windows.
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