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Snow Leopard guest account bug deletes user data - Page 2

post #41 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Most people also run as an Admin, which I suggest against for that added level of security.

Are you referring to main or guest accounts here? I thought admin privileges allow to install new apps. I'm interested in hearing about that added level of security.

I use a guest account and am in agreement with the guys about it's benefits. I'm a little anal about people using my computer anyway, so I'll just let them do what they need to on the guest account. Seeing what other people have google searched while on my macbook has gotten me into trouble just a few times

To add to the main topic, if the average user isn't smart enough to do a clean install, who's to say they'd even have an external drive, know about back ups or use time machine? I don't have an external hard drive (just backing data up onto my old PC and iDisk)...
post #42 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

If you are using Snow Leopard and are NOT using Time Machine, I'm not sure what advice I could give.

People backed up their computers long before Time Machine existed. If you are not using Time Machine (which sucks in my opinion due to lack of options), you continue your regular backup routine.
post #43 of 99
It's a serious bug and I hope they can fix it quickly.

However I still think local data storage is superior to the cloud. Because as the last few days have demonstrated, when accidents happen in the cloud everyone's data can be effected, but when accidents happen locally it is just the local users.
post #44 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

Wasn't there also an issue with Panther (or maybe Jaguar) where it would involuntarily format your Firewire drive during OS installation?

Nope. Drives were never formatted by Panther or Tiger. The drives were fine, it was the outdated chipsets used by the vendors who made the external cases.
post #45 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

The Guest account deletes all files and history when it's logged off. This makes is convenient for places like libraries. A non admin account doesn't.

Ah, thanks. I thought there must be a reason. Still, for allowing guests in your home to use your Mac, a non-admin account should suffice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

Indeed. Assuming your Time Capsule hasn't reached its 18 month failure milestone.

Caution: urban myth in progress.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #46 of 99
How often are people using this generic "Guest" account anyway? Data loss is a serious issue, but I don't think people use the "Guest" account on a daily basis to make this a huge problem.

Same reason why I don't use the Data Vault to secure my home folder. When that first arrived there was a bug that could make the data unaccessable after encryption. Once I read about that, I avoided that feature, and still do.
post #47 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodude View Post

To add to the main topic, if the average user isn't smart enough to do a clean install, who's to say they'd even have an external drive, know about back ups or use time machine?

How about being smart enough to know that no such option actually exists?
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #48 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Still, for allowing guests in your home to use your Mac, a non-admin account should suffice.

That is all I use if I have someone watching the house while I am away. I can also configure the non-admin account for internet use, iTunes, etc using the parental controls and not have to worry about anything (like data getting wiped out by some auto-deletion feature).
post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

Or Carbon Copy Cloner. That's what I use. Mighty fine it is too.

SuperDuper! is also a great program too.
post #50 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Reports of a potentially critical Snow Leopard bug that can erase a user's account data have continued to surface since the operating system's debut.

The issue has prompted numerous threads (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) on the Apple Support Discussions, with reports suggesting the issue cannot be reproduced with any exact certainty. Apple has yet to publicly acknowledge the issue.

There is an adage that says, that "perception is reality."

Perhaps this is not the case here. I have perused through the threads linked above, and by a quick account there are significantly more commentators attempting to replicate and/or help fix/guide the handful of unique users who have actually encountered the problem.

I find it is also interesting, that there are a number of commentators who keep repeatedly cropping up for other issues in the Apple Support Discussions.

Considering that nobody here has faced the issue with Snow Leopard, most of the action around the subject is just talk and much of that is 'helpful' attempts to fix the problem that nobody can really replicate.
post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodude View Post

Are you referring to main or guest accounts here? I thought admin privileges allow to install new apps. I'm interested in hearing about that added level of security.

I use a guest account and am in agreement with the guys about it's benefits. I'm a little anal about people using my computer anyway, so I'll just let them do what they need to on the guest account. Seeing what other people have google searched while on my macbook has gotten me into trouble just a few times

To add to the main topic, if the average user isn't smart enough to do a clean install, who's to say they'd even have an external drive, know about back ups or use time machine? I don't have an external hard drive (just backing data up onto my old PC and iDisk)...

When you run as an admin you can install/change apps without having to input an admin password. When you run as a normal user, you have to put in an admin username and password to alter certain folders and files. This is the added security I talk about.

I dont agree that an OS disc that allows for an update in 2009 should be seen as a warning sign. That should work out of the box, especially with the simplistic Mac OS X hierarchy. You shouldnt have to wipe your drive in order to update your OS. This isnt an issue for Windows 7 and it hasnt historically been an issue for Mac OS X.
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post #52 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAllan View Post

No no no, Apple did it first! Remember the iTunes fiasco from a few years back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

No what Happened?

iTunes 2.0 installer had a bug, which was not widespread. If the name of the hard drive was renamed to begin with a space (rarely did anyone do that), the installer erased the hard drive. I think some did that so the hard drive would appear at the top of Mac OS 9 open and save dialog boxes. It was corrected with iTunes 2.0.4.
post #53 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

When you run as an admin you can install/change apps without having to input an admin password. When you run as a normal user, you have to put in an admin username and password to alter certain folders and files. This is the added security I talk about.

That depends. If the application installs with a drag-and-drop, no password will be required when logged into an admin account. However if an installer is run, then a password will always be required.

Quote:
I dont agree that an OS disc that allows for an update in 2009 should be seen as a warning sign. That should work out of the box, especially with the simplistic Mac OS X hierarchy. You shouldnt have to wipe your drive in order to update your OS. This isnt an issue for Windows 7 and it hasnt historically been an issue for Mac OS X.

Agreed. An upgrade is going to work 99.5% of the time. If something goes wrong with a standard upgrade, the next logical step is an Archive and Install. An Erase and Install is almost never necessary or advisable.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #54 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

.... APPLE IS DOOMED

I would recommend trademarking the phrase!
post #55 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

That depends. If the application installs with a drag-and-drop, no password will be required when logged into an admin account. However if an installer is run, then a password will always be required.

I just opened a terminal window with my admin level user account and tried creating files in various places. I can touch a file in /Applications and /Library but not /System. So the OS itself is protected against even admin level accounts

Edit: unless that account sudos, but that would need the password.
post #56 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I would recommend trademarking the phrase!

Come on. Like I haven't tried!
post #57 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

Or Carbon Copy Cloner. That's what I use. Mighty fine it is too.

Super Duper works well too. Been using it for years with great results.
post #58 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

If you are using Snow Leopard and are NOT using Time Machine, I'm not sure what advice I could give.

you should not give any when your advice is as stupid as it can be. Almost like: have a badly designed macbook? you should have gotten a macbook pro...

this bug is almost as good as the ctrl + X fiasco some leopard ago.
post #59 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I would recommend trademarking the phrase!

Or have it tattooed on my arm
post #60 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Use Time Machine? That might be good advice.

Or SuperDuper! if you don't want to wait around before you can actually get back to work.
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #61 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash2004 View Post

Scary stuff !!


Leopards and Tigers and Bears!
Oh My!
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post #62 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike View Post

Super Duper works well too. Been using it for years with great results.

I used to have problems with Time Machine before Snow Leopard but never lost any backed up data. I found that if you leave Time Machine alone and never mess with the image file it will perform great without problems.
post #63 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Nope. Drives were never formatted by Panther or Tiger. The drives were fine, it was the outdated chipsets used by the vendors who made the external cases.

They weren't formatted, just corrupted. It was a bug in 10.3/Panther. It was fixed. It did only affect certain chipsets. Obviously, the chipsets weren't 'outdated.' If you think otherwise, perhaps you can explain what constitutes an 'outdated' FireWire chipset?

Outdated
adj., orig 2009: Any device or software that used to work with Apple products, but no longer does due to an update or subsequent version of the Apple product.

Example in usage: "All of Steve's data was outdated by Snow Leopard, and now he is starting over."
post #64 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

There is an adage that says, that "perception is reality."

Perhaps this is not the case here. I have perused through the threads linked above, and by a quick account there are significantly more commentators attempting to replicate and/or help fix/guide the handful of unique users who have actually encountered the problem.

I find it is also interesting, that there are a number of commentators who keep repeatedly cropping up for other issues in the Apple Support Discussions.

Considering that nobody here has faced the issue with Snow Leopard, most of the action around the subject is just talk and much of that is 'helpful' attempts to fix the problem that nobody can really replicate.

How about an article on Cnet where apple acknowledges the problem.

Can you take your head out of the sand now?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10...g=2547-1_3-0-5
post #65 of 99
Happily running 10.5 and glad I didn't upgrade. No problem for me.
post #66 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

How about an article on Cnet where apple acknowledges the problem.

Can you take your head out of the sand now?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-10...g=2547-1_3-0-5

Did I say that there wasn't a problem?

I was challenging the implied and perceived enormity of the issue.

Which CNET confirmed. AHole.
post #67 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Did i say that there wasn't a problem?

I was challenging the implied and perceived enormity of the issue.

Which CNET confirmed AHole.

Baaah, Baaah.

I perceive a problem with your attitude. Am I Implying Anything.

Naaah.
post #68 of 99
I just let guests use my old Linux box or one of the many PC's I've got floating around, no-one else uses my MacBook.

There are four people in my household between us we have seven PC's, Windows, Linux and Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

There are security reasons why you should use the Guest account for family and friends.

I have people over to my house all the time. They may want to "just check email" or "get map directions" etc... If they're in my account, well, then they have access to everything...not good.
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post #69 of 99
The one thing I don't understand about Apple and their upgrades.

Why do they only put it out to developers for bug testing?

Most developers live in a box and have an agenda of what they are looking for that has an impact on them personally.

Why not put it out for a public beta so it can be tested in the real world? It's not like a step upgrade is going to reveal any great secrets and Apple's developers would have real world input for all devices and user experiences.

Seriously, is there a logical reason?
post #70 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

The one thing I don't understand about Apple and their upgrades.

Why do they only put it out to developers for bug testing?

Most developers live in a box and have an agenda of what they are looking for that has an impact on them personally.

Why not put it out for a public beta so it can be tested in the real world? It's not like a step upgrade is going to reveal any great secrets and Apple's developers would have real world input for all devices and user experiences.

Seriously, is there a logical reason?



Worked great for Vista, didn't it?
post #71 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post



Worked great for Vista, didn't it?

That's why Win 7 has been released to the public for the last 6 months. They learned their lesson.

Apple doesn't.
post #72 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

The one thing I don't understand about Apple and their upgrades.

Why do they only put it out to developers for bug testing?

Most developers live in a box and have an agenda of what they are looking for that has an impact on them personally.

Why not put it out for a public beta so it can be tested in the real world? It's not like a step upgrade is going to reveal any great secrets and Apple's developers would have real world input for all devices and user experiences.

Seriously, is there a logical reason?

MS and Apple have different business models. The sooner you undrstand that the easier itball becomes. The logical reason is cost of supporting an open beta of an unstable update or OS release. Turning away people that have choisen to use your public beta is good customer support and still adds support costs.

Apple tries to make the betas safe, stable and functional before they release them. The develoer access is more about the developers making sure their apps can work by the time the OS or OS update goes live.

Note, once the beta is made live is when Apple starts monitoring the forums and support for issues to resolve in the next update. Exactly what you want them to do by releasing an unstable untested beta to their customers. No complex piece of software is bug free, and OS X is no exception. These issues are monitored and they become the foundation of the next update.
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post #73 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

That's why Win 7 has been released to the public for the last 6 months. They learned their lesson.

Apple doesn't.

MS had to release Win7 to the world early to prove that it wasn't the piece of crap that Vista was when it was released. They had to drop the Vista name and they had to alter the look of Win7 enough to differentiate it from Vista even though they are essentially the same OS. By that point Vista was as every bit as stable as Win7, if not more so, but the damage was done.
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post #74 of 99
Hopefully data wiping only occurs if the guest is dumb enough to install MS Office for Mac.
post #75 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

MS had to release Win7 to the world early to prove that it wasn't the piece of crap that Vista was when if was released. They had to drop the Vista name and they had to alter the look of Win7 enough to differentiate it from Vista even though they are essentially the same OS. By that point Vista was as every bit as stable as Win7, if not more so, but the damage was done.

And because of the care given to Win 7 Intel Corporation is upgrading to the new OS.
And by new OS I don't mean snow kitty.
post #76 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

And because of the care given to Win 7 Intel Corporation is upgrading to the new OS.
And by new OS I don't mean snow kitty.

1) Intel wasn't going to switch to an all Mac setup, even of their were no bugs in Mac OS X. DIFFERENT BUSINESS MODELS!!!

2) Win7 isn't some major change, it's Vista (which had very stable before Win7 became a public beta) with a name and slight venear change.

3) That same care was given to Vista, before Win7, but the damage was done Vista would be forever tainted.

4) Why are you so fast to think that a cosumer focused OS that is sold to sell PCs is a failure because larg coprorations don't blindly adopt it? If you go with Mac OS X you will
ahve no choice but to buy the very specific and limited HW from Apple. By going with Windows you can have all those PC companies vying for your business Which gets you lower prices and many
more options than going with a single PC vendor. DIFFERENT BUSINESS MODELS!!!
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post #77 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Intel wasn't going to switch to an all Mac setup, even of their were no bugs in Mac OS X. DIFFERENT BUSINESS MODELS!!!

2) Win7 isn't some major change, it's Vista (which had very stable before Win7 became a public beta) with a name and slight venear change.

3) That same care was given to Vista, before Win7, but the damage was done Vista would be forever tainted.

4) Why are you so fast to think that a cosumer focused OS that is sold to sell PCs is a failure because larg coprorations don't blindly adopt it? If you go with Mac OS X you will
ahve no choice but to buy the very specific and limited HW from Apple. By going with Windows you can have all those PC companies vying for your business Which gets you lower prices and many
more options than going with a single PC vendor. DIFFERENT BUSINESS MODELS!!!

That's exactly why I'm a PC. I have choice! You couldn't have made my point better, even in one of your 2000 word postings.
post #78 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan View Post

That's exactly why I'm a PC. I have choice! You couldn't have made my point better, even in one of your 2000 word postings.

1) Macs are PCs now and always have been. They are also now Windows PCs

2) Mac and non-Mac PC users have the same choices you do.

3) I make points, you make indigent generalizations. Despite your feelings otherwise, short apoplectic statements don’t work when the issue isn’t black and white.

4) Perhaps you’ll finally understand what most of us have been telling you: One size does fit all. Each business model has its pros and cons. Maybe now you’ll put your rancour aside when someone has a different need that you.
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post #79 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Indeed.

Given that there are a significant amount of people with the Time Capsule failure issue as well though it would certainly suck to be in the group that overlaps with this issue. The Time Capsule failure has eliminated my backups without warning, if I also had guest users enabled under Leopard (which I did at one point), I would be in the position of losing everything even though I would be following all Apple advice and using all their latest software and hardware.

Personally, I think this is just one more indication of how over-stretched Apple is right now and how they really need to beef up their QC efforts to match the beefed up sales they've been enjoying.

I liked it better when Apple was a small company that no one else I knew had heard of.

I agree on the QC part. Back in 2000 when I first experienced macs they were a lot more reliable than they seem to be today. I didn't own one until 2006, but by then it'd already begun, and I had to get my first mbp replaced. I've got an early time capsule too, that hasn't blown up yet thank god, but I've also decided to put off snow leopard for a while since my Tiger to Leopard experience was buggy in the first few months. I would've waited on the TC too, but I figured it was a back up device and It'd be reliable by definition. Wrong there, and now I'm wondering if it'll croak in warranty or not. I shouldn't have to think about that.

Apple is still ahead of Windows in reliability, innovation and ease of use, but I don't see them charging way ahead on anything other than the iPhone, and I think Windows 7 will bring some competition to OS X for sure.
post #80 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike View Post

Super Duper works well too. Been using it for years with great results.

Used to use Super Duper, now use Carbon Copy onto a SATA disk with a partition for each computer I work with. Both work as advertised - no worries. And I also backup all work files, settings, etc. weekly to mobileme just in case there's a tsunami or whatever. Upgrading without backing up is not very wise.
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