Apple fights off hackers with new iPhone 3GS firmware

These jail breakers are the root cause for all of our network problems. Just 3% of the users account for 40% of the data traffic on the 3G network (according to a recent AT&T finding). I wonder who these users are?....maybe the jail breakers?!?!?!?!

They install illegal Apps (slingbox, etc) and illegally rob the bandwidth from the rest of us. I can't check my email because the guy next to me is watching hours worth of TV shows.

This wouldn't be necessary if Apple ran an open platform and allowed people to install whatever they liked ON THEIR OWN HARDWARE.

Apple brought jailbreaking upon themselves, and long may it continue.

I'm sorry its early and I have a bit of a stomach cold but is this hyperbole or do you actually believe that load of nonsense?

I agree with kotatsu. Apple would have a much stronger leg to stand on anti-piracy wise if there were ways for me to run my own code on my own device. However, since I don't have any of my own code, I don't really care about jailbreaking one way or the other. I don't think this boot loader update is going to stop things in the long run.

There is no way for AT&T to determine if an Iphone is jailbroken or not and whether the app using bandwidth was purchase or not. What AT&T is say which is the case even for computer and the internet, it is only a small % of the users who actually use most of the bandwidth. Their concerns are what happen if this trend changes and a larger % start using more bandwidth.

BTW the same was true 20 yrs again what only a small % use most of the phone bandwidth. Phone networks were only designed to handle 1/3 of all the possible calls if everyone tried making a call at once.

It's easy to install your own code, just install the provisioning profile on your phone (and up to 100 others). Your own apps don't need to abide by the App Store rules!

The only reason I have an iPhone (bought at an Apple store) is because of hacker tools that allowed me to do a Carrier Unlock.

I don't really care about jail-breaking as there's enough varied free software on the App Store, and I've bought several apps but stick mostly in that .99 cent range so they're benefiting. The Carrier is also benefiting as instead of the pay as you go plan, I've graduated to a monthly one with a texting plan, etc.

You'd think that Apple/Carriers in some ways benefits more than it doesn't from hacking?

The question now, is how long will it take hacker to find a new work around.....

Actually this is bigger issue here for apple then piracy, large corporation will not deploy the iPhone as corporate device if they feel that is can be easily hacked and non-authorized code loaded on the phone. Unless Apple can shut this down there is no way they will get this corporate accounts. It is more about security then the actual piracy since they is a small % of most of the users doing it.

Depends on what you're after. If you're willing to spend $99/year you can run whatever you want on your own device(s). But that's not a cheap solution and not a route most people are willing to go down.

I agree with you that it's ridiculous that people who tether (or jailbreak and use the devices for unapproved purposes) can destroy the network. Especially given that AT&T sells devices that tether.

The truth of the matter is that AT&T is a victim of the iPhone's success. It's actually _being used_.

How wold an open network prevent a subset of users from using too much bandwidth and affecting the quality of service for everyone else?

Warning - analogy to follow -

I suppose you think if some people want to get on the public highways and drive 150 miles an hour they should be allowed to - the roadways and the vehicles are certainly capable of supporting such a speed. Why should the government artificially restrict us all to 65 mph or so? Hmm, could it be that for EVERYONE on the road to travel safely that there must be some set of rules that we all abide by?

But in Germany you can drive as fast as you want on the autobahn- well no actually you cannot in all locations at all times - and it takes a long time and a lot of cash to even get a driver's license in Germany.

end analogy

Yeah I know that analogy is full of holes etc - but as I was reading that post it struck me that as painful as it might be to some users (those who want to go 150 mph) how much more painful would it be for everyone f there were no rules at all? (and you end up with major accidents and the resulting death and destruction).

Which is not to say that I am against Apple and or AT&T opening things more and making improvements etc - or that we should sit idly by and wait for them to provide something without being asked to do so. What I am thinking is more along the lines of - if they did not have to spend time fighting unauthorized use perhaps they could spend more time on getting the job done.

You are so full of crap. No one is ILLEGALLY stealing bandwidth, they're using the bandwidth that they PAID FOR. To be stealing they would have to trick the network into not tacking their usage which can't be done from the phone. I also think AT&T is lying about the 3%/40% issue.

On the other hand AT&T as NOT properly designed their network so they could handle the traffic. To top it off AT&T ILLEGALLY steals money because everyone has to pay for 3G service even when you live in an area that does not have 3G service. Have you noticed that AT&T won't show you a 3G map anymore? Why, because they don't want you to see how few areas have 3G service. Verizon has a point with their latest commercial showing the AT&T 3G map.

Its ALL about piracy. Thats why the jailbreakers do it. Don't kid yourselves that this is about some god given right to do whatever you want with the hardware or some higher purpose these hackers may promote, its all about theft and the 'who has the biggest virtual cock' for these guys.

This has got to win a nomination for stupidest post of the year.

The 3% using 40% you refer to has nothing at all to do with jail breaking. AT&T's statement refers to iPhone users in general. iPhone users use more data than any of their other customers. Why? Not because they jailbreak their phone but because APPLE BUILT A DEVICE THAT THEY ACTUALLY WANT TO USE!

As far as 'illegally robbing bandwidth from the rest of us"...how exactly are they doing this? You own some spectrum they are stealing? No. They, just as you, paid for data. They, just as you, are using their data. Them using their data more than you has nothing to do with jailbreaking. For the first few months I averaged about .5-1gigs a month. Now I am pushing 2-3 gigs and I am not jailbroken...I just use my iPhone more. Just because you can't find ways to use your iPhone does not mean those who can have jailbroken their iPhones.

Thank you very much. I can't even put Safari on my lemonbox, the AppleTV.

Exactly. You purchased an iPhone, signed a contract with explicit conditions, and you broke the rules. You justify it because "I am so smart....I can jail beak my iPhone"....but you did not follow your end of the agreement. That's grounds for a lawsuit.

Bullshit.

It is about seeing what they can do with the device they own. You have no idea what the hacker mentality is about. I am sure some are doing it to allow piracy of software and they are dicks. They majority that work on it do so to see if they can. It is a challenge and so worth trying to them.

Nope, its all about 'breaking systems'. 99% of hacking is for malicious ends, malware, piracy, spam, phishing. Its all about making money by ripping someone elses property / IP apart. Otherwise they would be creators not destroyers!

But it's all worth it for them because it was such a pleasure to drive on the autobahn.

Sorry for going off topic.

You forget that prior to Apple's iPhone SDK release the iPhone was jailbroken to allow apps that Apple simply didn't offer. Some of these were sold but moat were free and created by talented coders (read:creators). Even unlocking the iPhone to be used on another network still means that the phoe was paid for and the carrier is getting paid.

1) What are they destrying by jailbreaking?
2) How are they making money? Few, if any, of the jailbreak teams make any money from their work. Other can use their work maliciously. They are dicks.
3) What orifice did you pull that 99% from? Don't make up 'facts' to make you point. It makes you look foolish.

Have you ever disassembled anything to see how it works? Have you ever tried to customize something you own to try to see if you could improve it? Have you ever done something simply to see if you could?

Unfortunately, you seem to have some hollywood fantasy about what 'hacking' is all about.

Or you could not buy the device? Plenty of other phones out there for you to choose from that alow you to do what you want with them.

Except for one thing... they are shit! I'm afraid apples business model and the quality of it products go hand in hand.

In your world, you destroy the business model, and degrade the quality of product, self defeating, unless you like run of the mill products that is.

I think the OP meant that an unauthorized app was using a lot of (or too much) bandwidth which in their mind equated to "illegally stealing" the bandwidth. However, I can't imagine that authorized apps like YouTube, etc... wouldn't use just as much bandwidth as "the guy next to him watching TV on his jailbroken iPhone".

For most people, both those creating the JB tools and those JBing their iPhones, it has nothing to do with theft. It is about being able to runs apps that are not otherwise available and being able to use functionality that is not available but should be.

People used it for things like tethering, MMS, modified home screens, etc. It had little to do with theft. But, theft is now becoming an issue because the same tools that allow legitimate modifications can also be used to install and run paid software without paying.

Apple can continue to invest heavily in resources to prevent this. Alternatively, they could loosen the restrictions that drive the majority of people to even try jailbreaking. Allowing an alternative to the AppStore would be one way. If users could get their software elsewhere that Apple chooses not to carry, then the userbase that is uses the JB tools would shrink massively. Fewer people seeking to jailbreak would result in fewer people working on jailbreaking.

Which os why the comment is bullocks. I use tethering on my iPhone an rack up a solid 25GB/month without jailbreaking. I can't update to 3.1 or I lose that feature and will have to resort to jailbreaking and a complex tethering option. I'd gladly pay AT&T for the feature, but they say they can't offer it yet. Until then I'm forced to use alternative methods. I wonder how many are choosing not to update to 3.1 to retain thisbl feature.

Apple's successful model does not mean any changes to it would result in failure. Nor does their business model of the AppStore have anything, at all, to do with the quality of the product. It does have an overall positive impact on the user experience, having everything vertically integrated. But it also leads to people wanting to push beyond the artificial limitations imposed.

If you thought the network was bad now, imagine what it would be like if AT&T enabled tethering now just to say they have the feature. They clearly underestimated the drain the iPhone would be on their network.

OK for example, if apple were to allow other app stores...

Less users would download apps as the experience would not be consistent. Prior to the iphone users were very nervous of downloading apps, infact I believe only about 2% of users even downloaded a single app.
Less downloads would = less money spent on apps.
Less money would = less software houses creating apps.
Less software houses = worse product..

Also,

Less money to apple from the app store = siphoning money from other 'traditional' methods.
'traditional' methods = business model change.

The only difference between AT&T allowing for tethering and not allowing or it is that they'd be getting paid the additional $30-40/month for the service. There are the probably more people that would never pay for it regardless than those that will pony up the additional cost.

But there has to be something to AT&T's claim otherwise they'd be losing money for no good reason.

This is very true. Yet other carriers internationally that have the iPhone allow tethering. Even before tethering was built in, Rogers in Canada had some of same network problems when the iPhone 3G was released. Dropped calls, calls going straight to voice mail. VVM notifications and SMS message coming in hours or days late. Yet, they still allow tethering and in fact their TOS allowed it before it was available in the iPhone OS. Overall, they have achieved fairly stable network performance, even with huge numbers of iPhones and tethering and MMS allowed. (not perfect, but acceptable)

Would they charge for it? If they did, then yes, the number of legit users would stay low. If it was simply allowed as part of your data allowance, they would get flooded, perhaps beyond what they are able to deal with. In Canada it is allowed as part of your data plan, though that could potentially change.

Most international carriers you talk of though were a bit more advanced, US was late to the party on that one. So one can only imagine there's allot of infrastructure being built to accommodate iPhone, and it doesn't surprise me one bit that they haven't allowed tethering with the exponential growth of the iPhone.

I agree completely. People have no respect for their own word anymore. YOU signed the contract... either you didn't read it, or you disagree with it and signed it anyway. Either way, no one forced you to sign it and it's a legally binding agreement of your consent. If you don't like the rules, don't buy the phone. No one bamboozled you. Go protest at Apple & AT&T headquarters if you like, but no one is going to take your viewpoint seriously if you continue breaking contracts. My position is, play all you want with your phone, but don't get up on your pedestal and act like this is a civil rights issue every time Apple breaks your hacks, when your the one breaking contracts.

-SSH
-Run apps in the backround
-SBS toggle
-Notifications
-scroll bar
-live weather
-animated icons/themes.

I am still with AT&T and have paid into their shitty network for the last few years despite the fact that I live in NYC where coverage can be abysmal and despite the fact that I could easily change networks and continue to use my Iphone. MOST of us who Jailbreak do so simply to enhance the user experience rather than use it as a device for piracy. Long live the hacker community and long live the Jailbreak without apologies.

Technically, tethering, if it violates the terms of service, could be considered theft, just as using someone else's wifi network without permission to get on the Internet is technically theft (and, who hasn't done that), but, I agree that theft, piracy, or other illegal activities have little or nothing to do with the motivations of people creating jailbreaking tools, nor for most people who jailbreak.

Why would fewer people download apps? That makes no sense at all. If Apple allowed an alternative app store, you personally would stop getting your apps at the app store? Anyone nervous about the alternative stores would simply continue to use the Apple AppStore.

Beside, prior to the iPhone, users were not nervous about the security or safety of downloading apps...they were unwilling to do so because they had to use carrier approved apps or it was simply too big a pain in the ass to find and install them. Little to do with concerns about the source.

Taking those two legs away and the rest of the items just fall away.

Personally, I would continue to use the Apple AppStore, regardless of alternatives. Just as I use the itunes store even though there are many alternatives. They only time I would use an alternative to the AppStore or (to the iTunes store) would be to pick up an item not available. If it isn't available through Apple, then I wouldn't have purchased it from them anyway and they have lost nada by me buying it elsewhere.

And I see your point and could even agree with it. But, for tethering in particular, I can't bring myself to agree completely. Tethering is just passing your data through one device to another. I paid for that data. To use as I see fit. It is only theft if I am using something that i did not pay for. But I paid for the data and am simply using the data.

I do understand those that argue that tethering is some sort of service that the provider can offer and charge for and therefore using it 'illegally' would be theft. Where I disagree with this is that is it not a service dependent on any additional functionality of the carriers network or infrastructure, as things like VVM or MMS would be. Those functions require carrier support to even work. Whereas tethering is completely device dependent. You have paid for data to be access through your device and tethering is simply using your data.

If it is a violation of your TOS, then certainly you are in violation of you contract and they could take action against you. I don't think most courts would call it theft, but certainly it would be actionable through termination of your contract. My issue is should the TOS forbid you from tethering. It would be like your ISP forbidding your from using more than one computer in your house...IIRC back in the 90's the @Home partnership of cable ISP tried to do just that-you were expected to pay extra to have multiple computers using your line as you were running a 'home network'. Fortunately for me, my ISP, Rogers, though a part of @Home turned a blind eye and actually put it right on their webpage that they allowed home networks but if you had any problems with connections you could only get assistance if you paid the extra to 'allow' using a home network.

Where do I begin??

I've had both the 2g and the 3GS.
Hands down the 3GS is the best all in one device I have used.
Does it have flaws? Yes, you can't make a device that will do all thing for all people.

Wish list:
Open the calendar app so developers could make this an even better PIM/CRM device.
Probably a few others I can't think of right now.

That being said. I have had both devices Jailbroken.
Why?
1) Because I like to see MY information on MY lock screen so I don't have to unlock the device to see who emailed me, the weather, my calendar, appointments, etc.

2) I like to have different icons, fonts, backgrounds, etc on MY device.

3) Easy on/off access to bluetooth, wifi, phone,etc.

4) A few apps XGPS(when it goes to the app store I'll buy it there), Categories(puts apps in folders), and probably a few others.

5) SHH into my folders to upload/email documents when I am not in a wifi area. I could do it via iTunes but it is far simpler to ftp into the phone.

6) It's MY device, I'm paying ATT a monthly fee, I own it.

I do not steal songs,apps or anything else.

Quote;"In your world, you destroy the business model, and degrade the quality of product, self defeating, unless you like run of the mill products that is."

How did I destroy their business model?
If anything I have made a great device better for ME.
I don't call up Apple or ATT if my phone doesn't work(It always has) I take responsibility for my actions.

I am grateful that the Jailbreaking community exists. It puts pressure on Apple, and even demonstrates what is possible, and what some consumers want.

I wish Apple would open up the hardware/software. Instead of "Closing holes" look at the apps and modifications that the Jailbreaking community have come up with, and roll them into the next version of the operating system, or
hire some of the developers/hackers to get a different viewpoint.

In closing, It's MY device if I want to paint it pink, take it apart and put in a car battery for longer battery life,
run linux, whatever so long as I purchased it I can do whatever I want. I just can't go back to Apple and ask them to fixit!
good luck.

Typical Apple. For a company that touts a creative stance (iLife, iWork, FCP, etc), they sure do hinder said creativity and innovation.

For many, jailbreaking gives them the features or abilities that they don't have due to Apple's tight hand. Yes, some may use it for theft of IP, but many more others are just trying to run software that Apple rejects in their App Store! I have a problem with the first bit, but not the second.

I really wish Apple would fully open up the platform (heck, I'd be happy with a full featured Bluetooth on the iPod Touch!) to allow us to really use the device's full potential. Apple made a great product, and then did it no justice by locking it down for the sake of "Keeping the UI clean". Function over form, but I guess not here.

Now, if Apple could find a way to open up their system yet keep out piracy... oh, its so very doable! They most likely never will.

Till then, keep it up jailbreakers!

(On a similar note, didn't Nintendo just release an update for their Wii to combat the Homebrew apps? Quite similar, though there I would think you have much more piracy going on. I like how people put in a feature that wasn't enabled by Nintendo: DVD play back!)

Puullleeeaaaasssseeeee... You cannot be serious! (as John McEnroe would say)

And yet Steve Jobs placated them with accolades as the perfect choice when it came to choosing a carrier for their iPhone, well Cingular for sure, as Cingular bought and merged with AT&T Wireless and kept the AT&T name!

Yet I recall the masses bemoaning the fact that Cingular was the carrier?! As in Bad Choice, Apple! Did Steve or Apple listen? Obviously not. Did Apple know the iPhone would be as big a hit as it has become? I'm sure they were positive their product would achieve great success. However, once great success was achieved and customer experience diminished by that success, because Apple's choice carrier lacked capability, did Apple use any of their billions of cash reserves to help with the carrier network's ability to increase it's infrastructure to handle the iPhone success and subsequent smartphone data demand? If they had, they aren't getting their money's worth and if they haven't, is Apple working on a new iPhone for it's next release that will allow it to work on a different carrier's different technology, perhaps, so as to improve overall user experience by alleviating network demand requirements of AT&T?

Or will iPhone users have to "deal with it" when it comes to Steve's choice of carriers because other carriers wouldn't meet to his demands and still other carriers were even smaller than Cingular/AT&T to provide the service the iPhone soon demanded and Apple was left with no other choice save getting into the cell phone business as a carrier themselves?

So as we all lambast AT&T for lack of service capability, let's remember, they didn't go to Apple with their data demanding, speed requiring, smartphone idea for the Mac cult population, a population that thanks to the ease of use practicality that Apple requires of its products, actually allows users to use the product and with great consistency, Apple went to them! \

Oh, and just to bring this post back into alignment with the conversation at hand regarding Apple/iPhone/Jailbreak/OS etc....

I wonder how many here posting are with the mindset, "I bought the iPhone, it's mine to do whatever I wish" are any of the same posters that won't allow Psystar to do whatever they wish to the hardware they own by "jail breaking" and adding Mac OS X to them? But, but, but Psystar sells them! And no jail broken iPhone has ever been placed for sale on EBAY or Craigslist?! But, but we're talking about modifying an Apple iPhone OS on Apple hardware, whereas Psystar "computers" aren't even Mac! I would think that makes it worse. That's like tinkering with a Porsche engine, inside the Porsche car itself versus modifying a Porsche engine and putting it into a Yugo and then advertise that this is some Yogo!

You can't run around and portray your righteousness at one and be indignant at the other, when basically talking about the same thing!

What a ridiculous, ignorant comment. I jailbreak and don't use any of those applications. Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it. Can you imagine a computer that doesn't let YOU decide what programs you want to run?

And if you can't check your email it's either user error or AT & T's shitty service. Not jailbreakers.

I guess Apple doesn't want the technical users. They'd rather have the sheep consumers that accept what they give them. I can change the way my phone looks, run apps in the background- and guess what, my battery life is just fine, show appointments, missed callls, etc on my lock screen. If Apple continues to make it difficult for me-- and others -- to control the product they own, they'll just drive us to Android. And as the phones get better, and they are already, Android will end up being the winner long term. So short-sighted on Apple's part but then, they do have a history of this type of short-term bad decision-making don't they?