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Apple fights off hackers with new iPhone 3GS firmware - Page 2

post #41 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Why would fewer people download apps? That makes no sense at all. If Apple allowed an alternative app store, you personally would stop getting your apps at the app store?.

Apple would not be in the position they are now if from the beginning it was a free for all. Consistency and simplicity and trust have been key to the uptake of downloadable mobile apps.

Apple have planned their mobile strategy (in part) round the fact that they can sell apps in the app store. Take money away from apple, they will take it from you somewhere else.

== model change
post #42 of 176
thank you Apple for making my launch 3GS so much more valuable when i sell it in 2 years. along with my wife's 3G
post #43 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Exactly. You purchased an iPhone, signed a contract with explicit conditions, and you broke the rules. You justify it because "I am so smart....I can jail beak my iPhone"....but you did not follow your end of the agreement. That's grounds for a lawsuit.

You are both complete idiots that will believe any nonsense Apple throws your way.

One, jailbreaking is NOT illegal. Two, jailbreakers do not steal bandwith, they've paid for it. and three it has noting to do with piracy for most people.

The bottom line is that Apple will lose market share eventually because of these policies. And they don't have to but Jobs can't bare the thought of someone actually modifying his precious software-- which has consistently had tons of bugs in it with each release BTW. They could do what they want obviously, but as a huge Apple supporter and typically an early adopter, when my contract expires in next few months, I'll be looking at android phones. When you drive one of your best customers towards your competitors for no reason-- and there is no reason to fight jailbreaking other than wanting to have complete control-- it's just bad business.
post #44 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie View Post

That being said. I have had both devices Jailbroken.
Why?

1) Because I like to see MY information on MY lock screen so I don't have to unlock the device to see who emailed me, the weather, my calendar, appointments, etc.

2) I like to have different icons, fonts, backgrounds, etc on MY device.

3) Easy on/off access to bluetooth, wifi, phone,etc.

4) A few apps XGPS(when it goes to the app store I'll buy it there), Categories(puts apps in folders), and probably a few others.

5) SHH into my folders to upload/email documents when I am not in a wifi area. I could do it via iTunes but it is far simpler to ftp into the phone.

I do not steal songs,apps or anything else..

and this is exactly why I jailbreak!!!!
especially the customized lockscreen with all the info at a glance and the customizable look of the rest of the phone is a good reason.
also I couldn't live without a the posibility to use a simple screenswipe to access all my on/off buttons for blue tooth, wifi, 3G, etc etc.

there are many legit reasons to JB the phone, none of them are about piracy or stealing.
post #45 of 176
As much as I love Apple as a company and its hardware and software, I do not share the same sentiment when it comes to the way they are bringing the iPhone to customers. First of all I am 1000% against phone bricking, any brand, any carrier. It is not fair at all that if I want to use any type of phone then I just can do it with an specific carrier. You know why? Because it is my f**king money and if I'm paying for it then I should do whatever I want to do with it. Second, the carriers are charging excessively just because it is an iPhone, so if I want an iPhone I should pay a plan that is 300% more expensive than any regular plan. It's that fair? I want to use that phone because it simplifies my life a lot and that should not be a privilege just for the richers. I'm a jailbreaker, yes I do, not for stealing software, I do because where I live it is impossible to pay for an iPhone plan, prices are at the top of the ridiculous. I don't use Installous or any other form of illegal apps instalation 'cause that's stealing and I think that could make some damage to the iPhone developing community. I have bought the apps I want from the App Store like MotionX GPS, Tweetie, Colloquy, FTPontheGo, and a few others. I have paid for them and I don't care about spend money in those apps or any other I'm interesed for. I do jailbreaked my iPhone to use it with my carrier with a fair voice plan. Apple should and MUST open the f**cking iPhone to everybody and end that stupid exclusive carriers thing. The exclusivity in the cell phones arena isn't the same as their computer bussiness. In Apple's computer software+hardware bond I'm 1000% on. I like it and love it, but with phones the best thing they can do is to sell it open. $500? I'll pay for it!!
lvidal.-
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post #46 of 176
funny that evil microsoft doesn't care if you install a hacked ROM on their winmo phones, but apple, palm and google all scream bloody murder if you try
post #47 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

funny that evil microsoft doesn't care if you install a hacked ROM on their winmo phones, but apple, palm and google all scream bloody murder if you try

MS doesn't make WinMo phones they license WinMo to phone vendors. Why always these wonk comparisons to an OS seller to a hardware manufacturer?
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post #48 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Its ALL about piracy. Thats why the jailbreakers do it. Don't kid yourselves that this is about some god given right to do whatever you want with the hardware or some higher purpose these hackers may promote, its all about theft and the 'who has the biggest virtual cock' for these guys.

You are so wrong. I jailbreak in order to enhance my user experience with non-Apple approved apps, not for piracy. I like to be able to answer texts within an application and to run multiple apps at once.

Don't paint with so broad a brush.
post #49 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Would they charge for it? If they did, then yes, the number of legit users would stay low. If it was simply allowed as part of your data allowance, they would get flooded, perhaps beyond what they are able to deal with. In Canada it is allowed as part of your data plan, though that could potentially change.

Your data allowance on AT&T is unlimited, so yes they would charge for it. They may even have you sign something that allows them to cut you off or throttle you after x-many GB of usage.
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post #50 of 176
Fuck with the hardware as much as you want, you bought it and own it BUT don't fuck with the OS because you only purchased a licence to use it.

Why don't you install Linux on your hardware or Maemo or some shit like that.

btw you CAN buy it open,in lots of places where it is available on lots of other carriers maybe you should import one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvidal View Post

As much as I love Apple as a company and its hardware and software, I do not share the same sentiment when it comes to the way they are bringing the iPhone to customers. First of all I am 1000% against phone bricking, any brand, any carrier. It is not fair at all that if I want to use any type of phone then I just can do it with an specific carrier. You know why? Because it is my f**king money and if I'm paying for it then I should do whatever I want to do with it. Second, the carriers are charging excessively just because it is an iPhone, so if I want an iPhone I should pay a plan that is 300% more expensive than any regular plan. It's that fair? I want to use that phone because it simplifies my life a lot and that should not be a privilege just for the richers. I'm a jailbreaker, yes I do, not for stealing software, I do because where I live it is impossible to pay for an iPhone plan, prices are at the top of the ridiculous. I don't use Installous or any other form of illegal apps instalation 'cause that's stealing and I think that could make some damage to the iPhone developing community. I have bought the apps I want from the App Store like MotionX GPS, Tweetie, Colloquy, FTPontheGo, and a few others. I have paid for them and I don't care about spend money in those apps or any other I'm interesed for. I do jailbreaked my iPhone to use it with my carrier with a fair voice plan. Apple should and MUST open the f**cking iPhone to everybody and end that stupid exclusive carriers thing. The exclusivity in the cell phones arena isn't the same as their computer bussiness. In Apple's computer software+hardware bond I'm 1000% on. I like it and love it, but with phones the best thing they can do is to sell it open. $500? I'll pay for it!!
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post #51 of 176
As much as I love Apple as a company and its hardware and software, I do not share the same sentiment when it comes to the way they are bringing the iPhone to customers. First of all I am 1000% against phone bricking, any brand, any carrier. It is not fair at all that if I want to use any type of phone then I just can do it with an specific carrier. You know why? Because it is my f**king money and if I'm paying for it then I should do whatever I want to do with it. Second, the carriers are charging excessively just because it is an iPhone, so if I want an iPhone I should pay a plan that is 300% more expensive than any regular plan. It's that fair? I want to use that phone because it simplifies my life a lot and that should not be a privilege just for the richers. I'm a jailbreaker, yes I do, not for stealing software, I do because where I live it is impossible to pay for an iPhone plan, prices are at the top of the ridiculous. I don't use Installous or any other form of illegal apps instalation 'cause that's stealing and I think that could make some damage to the iPhone developing community. I have bought the apps I want from the App Store like MotionX GPS, Tweetie, Colloquy, FTPontheGo, and a few others. I have paid for them and I don't care about spend money in those apps or any other I'm interesed for. I do jailbreaked my iPhone to use it with my carrier with a fair voice plan. Apple should and MUST open the f**cking iPhone to everybody and end that stupid exclusive carriers thing. The exclusivity in the cell phones arena isn't the same as their computer bussiness. In Apple's computer software+hardware bond I'm 1000% on. I like it and love it, but with phones the best thing they can do is to sell it open. $500? I'll pay for it!!

It's just a matter of time to jailbreak that new chip.
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post #52 of 176
There hasn't been a legitimate reason to jailbreak in sometime. In 2007, when features were way behind demand, there certainly was. Apple has caught up. AT&T has not, but that's what most adults would call "unfortunate", not, "legitimate reason to suck bandwidth away from other users."

The commentary that suggest users who jailbreak are NOT affecting the bandwidth experience of non-jailbreak users, is absolutely hilarious (to me), as well completely incorrect.

I highly doubt that the number of jailbroken users w/ high bandwidth habits exceeds 1% of the US market. Highly doubt.

But even if so, 1% is a high number when differences in consumption are vast...

First of all, its time to completely discount the "unlimited data" notion. Everyone with a handful of knowledge knows that its not truly unlimited data. Speeds are capped, and due to limited availability, not everyone can even make the most of the limited speeds.

What amount of data does the average iPhone user consume? I think you'll find the average user to be in the sub 100 mb per month category, while I have no doubt that the average jailbreaker who is tethering, slingboxing, torrenting, and god knows what else, is easily at 1 gb+ per month.

If these numbers are anywhere even close to accurate, and I'm certain they are, that is a HUGE problem for the avg user. When 1% of users are consuming the bandwidth of 10 avg users, suddenly that 1% category is 10%, realized.

If non-jailbreakable iPhones = better data performance for honest users, then I'm all for it. Competition from Android will continue to drive the quality/features that Apple brings to the device, not the prospect of jailbreaking. It has already become irrelevant, and will soon be completely non-existent from the looks of it.
post #53 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Apple would not be in the position they are now if from the beginning it was a free for all. Consistency and simplicity and trust have been key to the uptake of downloadable mobile apps.

And all of those would still be there with the Apple AppStore, regardless of alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Apple have planned their mobile strategy (in part) round the fact that they can sell apps in the app store. Take money away from apple, they will take it from you somewhere else.

== model change

Since the 3G, yes, prior to that, the original iPhone had no AppStore and it did fairly well.

There is no denying the AppStore has been a success. Alternative stores would not necessarily take money away from Apple. As I said, why would most people not still use the Apple AppStore?

Yes, it would be a business model change...that does not logically mean a less successful business model necessarily.

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post #54 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtwwg View Post

What a ridiculous, ignorant comment. I jailbreak and don't use any of those applications. Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it. Can you imagine a computer that doesn't let YOU decide what programs you want to run?

And if you can't check your email it's either user error or AT & T's shitty service. Not jailbreakers.

I guess Apple doesn't want the technical users. They'd rather have the sheep consumers that accept what they give them. I can change the way my phone looks, run apps in the background- and guess what, my battery life is just fine, show appointments, missed callls, etc on my lock screen. If Apple continues to make it difficult for me-- and others -- to control the product they own, they'll just drive us to Android. And as the phones get better, and they are already, Android will end up being the winner long term. So short-sighted on Apple's part but then, they do have a history of this type of short-term bad decision-making don't they?

You are not a "technical user". You are not a "technical" anything. What you are is someone who wants what they want, and doesn't care about being realistic, or even reasonable. You're also completely out of line describing "what jailbreaking is for". That's about as legitimate as saying P2P file sharing is for uploading your purchased CDs so that others can preview the music before purchasing it themselves. Thats hilarious. Maybe 2% will do that. The other 98% are there to steal and hog. So whatever necessary icon changing you may feel is your right, you've completely misunderstood what it means to have a device that you "own" and "may use as you wish."
post #55 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Technically, tethering, if it violates the terms of service, could be considered theft, just as using someone else's wifi network without permission to get on the Internet is technically theft (and, who hasn't done that),

I tell you what is theft too : my carrier does give a fiddlers if I tether or don't. I purchased a LEGAL UNLOCKED phone as per the laws in Belgium. Up until FW 3.0 I could install a mobileconfig myself and tether as I see fit.

Now I can't (if I were to go onto 3.1)., because Apple only delivers the ipcc profiles for its OFFICIAL carriers. You call Aplle here they refer you to their official carrier who in turn tells you to Foxtrot-Oscar (and who in turn does NOT like tethering on the Iphone although his dataplans iPhone and Nokia phones are identical - so go figure...)

Now I paid 615 for my iPhone (go figure how much that is in $) and if I upgrade to 3.1 I lose a vital facility.
post #56 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Actually this is bigger issue here for apple then piracy, large corporation will not deploy the iPhone as corporate device if they feel that is can be easily hacked and non-authorized code loaded on the phone.

I don't believe this to be true as there are corporations which use Windows Mobile devices; you can load pretty much any software you want on it from any reputable or disreputable source.

Furthermore there are already enterprises which are providing iPhones with custom apps for their workforce to use:
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/enterprise/
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/enter...aft-foods.html


I have the misfortune of owning a Windows Mobile smartphone and currently waiting for my carrier to finally send me an iPhone!

I wish Apple will offer an unlocked version of the iPhone -i.e. to use on any carrier- for the UK market. I believe such a move will substantially reduce the need for jailbreaking.
post #57 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

There hasn't been a legitimate reason to jailbreak in sometime. In 2007, when features were way behind demand, there certainly was. Apple has caught up. AT&T has not, but that's what most adults would call "unfortunate", not, "legitimate reason to suck bandwidth away from other users."

The commentary that suggest users who jailbreak are NOT affecting the bandwidth experience of non-jailbreak users, is absolutely hilarious (to me), as well completely incorrect.

I highly doubt that the number of jailbroken users w/ high bandwidth habits exceeds 1% of the US market. Highly doubt.

But even if so, 1% is a high number when differences in consumption are vast...

First of all, its time to completely discount the "unlimited data" notion. Everyone with a handful of knowledge knows that its not truly unlimited data. Speeds are capped, and due to limited availability, not everyone can even make the most of the limited speeds.

What amount of data does the average iPhone user consume? I think you'll find the average user to be in the sub 100 mb per month category, while I have no doubt that the average jailbreaker who is tethering, slingboxing, torrenting, and god knows what else, is easily at 1 gb+ per month.

If these numbers are anywhere even close to accurate, and I'm certain they are, that is a HUGE problem for the avg user. When 1% of users are consuming the bandwidth of 10 avg users, suddenly that 1% category is 10%, realized.

If non-jailbreakable iPhones = better data performance for honest users, then I'm all for it. Competition will continue to drive the quality/features that Apple brings to the device, not the prospect of jailbreaking. It has already become irrelevant, and will soon be completely non-existent from the looks of it.

Thats subtantial

I am not jailbroken and easily push over 2gigs a month. Of the 5 people I work with that have iphones, at least 2 or 3 have mentioned they also use a lot of data and none are jailbroken.

Does jailbreaking give you more options for using lots of data sure...but the iPhone itself is a data sucking device (and thankfully so) that has made it easy to use lots of data without jailbreaking.

Putting the blame on jailbreakers for the heavy data usage from iPhone users is just silly. If you want to blame someone, blame Apple for doing such a great interface that makes using gobs of data an after thought.

they only way you go back to better data performance through fewer people using massively less data on AT&T's network would be to ban iPhones from their network...or remove/ban existing functionality like a web browser, youtube, MMS, stream audio/video/radio apps, remote desktop apps, etc. Does that also sound like a good idea to you? Are you all for it?

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post #58 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

. Alternative stores would not necessarily take money away from Apple.

Was it john skully (or Gil Amelio) who thought similar with the OS? I cant remember, anyhow same stuff applies
post #59 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I do understand those that argue that tethering is some sort of service that the provider can offer and charge for and therefore using it 'illegally' would be theft. Where I disagree with this is that is it not a service dependent on any additional functionality of the carriers network or infrastructure, as things like VVM or MMS would be. Those functions require carrier support to even work. Whereas tethering is completely device dependent. You have paid for data to be access through your device and tethering is simply using your data.

Well, my point was that it could be argued that it is theft of services, but that jailbreaking doesn't have illegal activity as it's motivation, even if there may be incidental activities that it could enable that might be at least somewhat gray. However, whatever the motivations, I think the prospect that the relatively small number of jailbreakers on AT&T's network are somehow sucking the bandwidth out of it, is unlikely in the extreme. I think it's generally a harmless activity that has positives and negatives for the user.

It's not entirely clear to me what Apple's motivation for putting serious effort into stopping it is. I think most users are deterred simply by the prospect of voiding their warranty and there are certainly not large numbers (relative to the total of iPhone owners) of people doing this. It could be pressure from AT&T to preserve their exclusivity and prevent tethering. It could be security concerns re corporate acceptance or worries about bad publicity. It could be that they just want to keep the reins on the user experience (although, it would surprise me if this were their primary motivation since the numbers jailbreaking are relatively small). Or, it could be some combination of all of the above.
post #60 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

You are not a "technical user". You are not a "technical" anything. What you are is someone who wants what they want, and doesn't care about being realistic, or even reasonable. You're also completely out of line describing "what jailbreaking is for". That's about as legitimate as saying P2P file sharing is for uploading your purchased CDs so that others can preview the music before purchasing it themselves. Thats hilarious. Maybe 2% will do that. The other 98% are there to steal and hog.

Who is out of line? The guy that has jailbroken and knows how he and other have used it and those that have not jailbroken but also understand how they would use it...or the guy that has not jailbroken and has no idea how he might personally use it other than for theft.

It is all anecdotal, but just read over the posts in this thread...how many people have said the jailbreak to steal software and how many has said the do it to run alternative software?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

So whatever necessary icon changing you may feel is your right, you've completely misunderstood what it means to have a device that you "own" and "may use as you wish."

Perhaps you could explain what it means? Perhaps you could explain property rights law that prevents you from doing what you choose with your own property....i.e. the device that you own.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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...sometimes it's both
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post #61 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Was it john skully (or Gil Amelio) who thought similar with the OS? I cant remember, anyhow same stuff applies

You are comparing allowing clones to run the OS (it was Amelio) to Apple allowing alternative sources for apps?

Ok. Conversation done. No further point.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #62 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, my point was that it could be argued that it is theft of services, but that jailbreaking doesn't have illegal activity as it's motivation, even if there may be incidental activities that it could enable that might be at least somewhat gray. However, whatever the motivations, I think the prospect that the relatively small number of jailbreakers on AT&T's network are somehow sucking the bandwidth out of it, is unlikely in the extreme. I think it's generally a harmless activity that has positives and negatives for the user.

It's not entirely clear to me what Apple's motivation for putting serious effort into stopping it is. I think most users are deterred simply by the prospect of voiding their warranty and there are certainly not large numbers (relative to the total of iPhone owners) of people doing this. It could be pressure from AT&T to preserve their exclusivity and prevent tethering. It could be security concerns re corporate acceptance or worries about bad publicity. It could be that they just want to keep the reins on the user experience (although, it would surprise me if this were their primary motivation since the numbers jailbreaking are relatively small). Or, it could be some combination of all of the above.

I would agree with most of your reasons.
1) Pressure from AT&T. Yes, just as with iTunes, Apple has agreements in place to restrict certain functionality. A closed systems allows them some control here
2) Corporate security concerns. Not so sure on this one. If it is a company issued device, then a simply policy not to jailbreak it should be enough. Jailbreaking it is not worth your job. If it is for personal devices, they have the same concerns about personal laptops and other devices. Either the ban them or allow them. I wouldn't see jailbreaking as being much of a concernhere.
3)Control the entire user experience. makes sense. They have been successful here, but they need to remember that too many restrictions will never go over well.

I think theft of software is an actual concern. Even more important to the success of the AppStore than it being a closed ecosystem is that developers have taken to it so well and many of the apps are still iPhone exclusives. If developers feel that their software is just going to be ripped off as soon as it hits the app store, then they will at the least develop for other platforms as well, making those stores more robust and successful. Also, everytime a legit app is cracked and stolen, that is money directly out of Apple pocket.

Having said that it doesn't seem like running cracked software is all that popular yet. I certainly don't know anyone that has done it...anyone I have spoken with that has ever jailbroken has only used it to install software released for jailbroken phones, not AppStore apps that have been cracked.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #63 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

I tell you what is theft too : my carrier does give a fiddlers if I tether or don't. I purchased a LEGAL UNLOCKED phone as per the laws in Belgium. Up until FW 3.0 I could install a mobileconfig myself and tether as I see fit.

Now I can't (if I were to go onto 3.1)., because Apple only delivers the ipcc profiles for its OFFICIAL carriers. You call Aplle here they refer you to their official carrier who in turn tells you to Foxtrot-Oscar (and who in turn does NOT like tethering on the Iphone although his dataplans iPhone and Nokia phones are identical - so go figure...)

Now I paid 615 for my iPhone (go figure how much that is in $) and if I upgrade to 3.1 I lose a vital facility.

Sounds like a legitimate complaint. Perhaps you should lobby for a change to the law that would require handset manufacturers to provide ipcc profiles for any permitted carrier (i.e., official and any others, as permitted by the nature of the law). In the meantime, it certainly seems like a good reason to jailbreak.
post #64 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

... Corporate security concerns.

[...]

I think theft of software is an actual concern. Even more important to the success of the AppStore than it being a closed ecosystem is that developers have taken to it so well and many of the apps are still iPhone exclusives. If developers feel that their software is just going to be ripped off as soon as it hits the app store, then they will at the least develop for other platforms as well, making those stores more robust and successful. Also, everytime a legit app is cracked and stolen, that is money directly out of Apple pocket.

Having said that it doesn't seem like running cracked software is all that popular yet.

Well, I think the security concern would be, as I believe someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, the perception that the iPhone is easily hackable. In other words, perhaps Apple tries to prevent jailbreaking at least partly not because it opens up the phone per se, but simply to eliminate the perception that it's easy to do so.

The software theft issue may actually be a consideration from the standpoint of developer perception, so perhaps it's more targeted toward that than anyone actually engaged in the same. It does give anyone who has ever released software, and knows that a large number of people used it without paying, a warm feeling to think that anyone using their software has paid for it.
post #65 of 176
The jailbreaker mentality isn't really that peculiar. It's a combination of narcissism and sociopathy compounded by the self-esteem drivel (celebrate me even if I did nothing worth celebrating) that the US educational system has foisted on two generations of Americans.

The narcissism makes it easy for them to justify what they're doing on the grounds that either they're smarter than most folks so they have more rights and privileges, or what they're doing is so cool and ingenious so we should all let them do it and marvel in awe at their feat, and not complain about how that is inconveniencing us. "We are the cool, special people so you should be celebrating us not berating us."

The sociopathy is evident in the self-centeredness that is exhibited when they claim they can use up as much bandwidth as they can, conveniently ignoring the fact that there are resource limits to any wireless network and that everyone else is penalized when too many subscribers become bandwidth hogs. The amazing thing is that when finally AT&T has to take action to manage bandwidth congestion, these same folks will howl the loudest if bandwidth metering beyond a certain threshhold is put in. They'll still be allowed to use as much bandwidth as they want mind you, they'll just have to pay for its real cost now instead of freeloading on us poor saps.

They really are no different from the guy who installs a gazillion watt stereo in his car, turns it up to bone-rattling levels, then drives down the street 'sharing' his pacemaker-jamming bass rhythms with us regular motorists. Not giving a care at all that what he is doing is extremely rude, annoying, self-centered, and antisocial. And on top of that getting all indignant about his freedoms being curtailed when a policeman issues him a citation.

Jailbreakers like to use specious arguments like the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Tethering is just passing your data through one device to another. I paid for that data. To use as I see fit. It is only theft if I am using something that i did not pay for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amtwwg View Post

Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

For many, jailbreaking gives them the features or abilities that they don't have due to Apple's tight hand.

No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.

Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.
post #66 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

For most people, both those creating the JB tools and those JBing their iPhones, it has nothing to do with theft. It is about being able to runs apps that are not otherwise available and being able to use functionality that is not available but should be.

People used it for things like tethering, MMS, modified home screens, etc. It had little to do with theft. But, theft is now becoming an issue because the same tools that allow legitimate modifications can also be used to install and run paid software without paying.

Apple can continue to invest heavily in resources to prevent this. Alternatively, they could loosen the restrictions that drive the majority of people to even try jailbreaking. Allowing an alternative to the AppStore would be one way. If users could get their software elsewhere that Apple chooses not to carry, then the userbase that is uses the JB tools would shrink massively. Fewer people seeking to jailbreak would result in fewer people working on jailbreaking.


With all the apps that are available and more being created every day, I have to think the driving force for jailbreaking is theft, pure and simple. Anytime you try to get an app for free that everyone else is paying for ... that's theft .... and no matter how many "legitimate" excuses you come up with to justify it .... it's still theft.
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post #67 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

You are not a "technical user". You are not a "technical" anything. What you are is someone who wants what they want, and doesn't care about being realistic, or even reasonable. You're also completely out of line describing "what jailbreaking is for". That's about as legitimate as saying P2P file sharing is for uploading your purchased CDs so that others can preview the music before purchasing it themselves. Thats hilarious. Maybe 2% will do that. The other 98% are there to steal and hog. So whatever necessary icon changing you may feel is your right, you've completely misunderstood what it means to have a device that you "own" and "may use as you wish."

It sounds to me like the opposite of your "facts." That maybe 2% of jailbreakers steal apps from the app store. The rest just want to run cydia and mostly free, non-authorized apps. Meaning they want to run stuff Apple has not, or will not approve. For example, video on the 3G. How does that make it stealing? Shitty quality, but not theft of anything. People who jailbreak buy apps, whether from the App store or a 3rd party Apple hasn't allowed to sell in the App Store.

I haven't personally found the need to do it, but I equate the need with the likes of a computer. If I was blocked from running Firefox on my MBP, because Apple said it would duplicate Safari, I'd find a way to break the software lock, too. Good luck guys, I'm sure the dev team will figure out another exploit.
post #68 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

You are comparing allowing clones to run the OS (it was Amelio) to Apple allowing alternative sources for apps?

Ok. Conversation done. No further point.

Yes there are similarities. It's about having tight control of everything from software to hardware. It allows Apple to push the boundaries, it's what differentiates them from linux, windows, and now android.

And if you cant see that, your are finally correct in that there is no further point in this conversation.
post #69 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

With all the apps that are available and more being created every day, I have to think the driving force for jailbreaking is theft, pure and simple. Anytime you try to get an app for free that everyone else is paying for ... that's theft .... and no matter how many "legitimate" excuses you come up with to justify it .... it's still theft.

a lot of the UI changes people make by jailbreaking aren't available via apps. and some people want to listen to pandora while typing an email or surfing the web
post #70 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Which os why the comment is bullocks. I use tethering on my iPhone an rack up a solid 25GB/month without jailbreaking. I can't update to 3.1 or I lose that feature and will have to resort to jailbreaking and a complex tethering option. I'd gladly pay AT&T for the feature, but they say they can't offer it yet. Until then I'm forced to use alternative methods. I wonder how many are choosing not to update to 3.1 to retain thisbl feature.

I'm not sure I understand you. In the first part of your post you say you're not jailbreaking, but then go on to say you are using "alternative" measures to do something the iPhone isn't supposed to be able to do ... isn't that the same thing? Color me confused.
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post #71 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

These jail breakers are the root cause for all of our network problems. Just 3% of the users account for 40% of the data traffic on the 3G network (according to a recent AT&T finding). I wonder who these users are?....maybe the jail breakers?!?!?!?!

They install illegal Apps (slingbox, etc) and illegally rob the bandwidth from the rest of us. I can't check my email because the guy next to me is watching hours worth of TV shows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.

Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.


New firmware will do jack shlt. Like you guys have never ONCE used someone else's WiFi. Hypocrites.
post #72 of 176
The definition for "wanted" got put under "necessary".

Yeah, Apple should have gone the Openmoko route. That thing's just killing the iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

This wouldn't be necessary if Apple ran an open platform and allowed people to install whatever they liked ON THEIR OWN HARDWARE.

Apple brought jailbreaking upon themselves, and long may it continue.
post #73 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Perhaps you could explain property rights law that prevents you from doing what you choose with your own property....i.e. the device that you own.

Um, just off the top of my head... car, boat, gun, house, camera, cough syrup, computer... sure you CAN do 'what you want' with them, but you'll go to jail if you use your computer for child porn, use your cough syrup for meth production, take pictures of someone undressing in a change room, run a brothel out of your home, rob a bank, drive around the lake drunk, drive without a license or intoxicated...
So ya, you CAN do what you want with what you have access to, but that doesn't mean you don't pay the price for your actions. Just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's ok.
post #74 of 176
Where's my Wifi, Apple?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #75 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

... but you'll go to jail if you ... drive around the lake drunk

Well, actually, I wouldn't be breaking any law if I did that.
post #76 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

I'm not sure I understand you. In the first part of your post you say you're not jailbreaking, but then go on to say you are using "alternative" measures to do something the iPhone isn't supposed to be able to do ... isn't that the same thing? Color me confused.

I installed a tethering profile freely available over the internet. It installs from the iPhone’s browser and allows tethering. worked the same way for MMS. It doesn’t require bypassing any of the locks in place in the OS and doesn’t allow for anything else than adding that specific profile to the iPhone. However, this only worked up until 3.0.1, after that the profiles were signed making tethering a complex setup even for jailbroken phones running 3.1 or later. There is a very distinct difference between adding a profile, unlocking and jailbreaking.

Quote:
The new “iPhone Help Center“, which can be found at help.benm.at, provides the easiest way to enable iPhone Tethering through installing Mobileconfigs directly on your iPhone. No hacking or jailbreaking required! You can also find MMS-Settings for your provider.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #77 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

The jailbreaker mentality isn't really that peculiar. It's a combination of narcissism and sociopathy compounded by the self-esteem drivel (celebrate me even if I did nothing worth celebrating) that the US educational system has foisted on two generations of Americans.

Who is asking for anyone to be celebrated. Strawman arguments show a weak mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

The narcissism makes it easy for them to justify what they're doing on the grounds that either they're smarter than most folks so they have more rights and privileges, or what they're doing is so cool and ingenious so we should all let them do it and marvel in awe at their feat, and not complain about how that is inconveniencing us. "We are the cool, special people so you should be celebrating us not berating us."

No more right...just rights. Nothing to do with cool or special, but more to so with, hey I own it, I will use it as i see fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

The sociopathy is evident in the self-centeredness that is exhibited when they claim they can use up as much bandwidth as they can, conveniently ignoring the fact that there are resource limits to any wireless network and that everyone else is penalized when too many subscribers become bandwidth hogs. The amazing thing is that when finally AT&T has to take action to manage bandwidth congestion, these same folks will howl the loudest if bandwidth metering beyond a certain threshhold is put in. They'll still be allowed to use as much bandwidth as they want mind you, they'll just have to pay for its real cost now instead of freeloading on us poor saps.

Again, you are showing your confusion with facts. I have not jailbroken and I will use as much of my data as I choose, since I paid for it. Nothing to do with jailbreaking, though jailbreaker do have more options for using data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

They really are no different from the guy who installs a gazillion watt stereo in his car, turns it up to bone-rattling levels, then drives down the street 'sharing' his pacemaker-jamming bass rhythms with us regular motorists. Not giving a care at all that what he is doing is extremely rude, annoying, self-centered, and antisocial. And on top of that getting all indignant about his freedoms being curtailed when a policeman issues him a citation.

talk about specious

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Jailbreakers like to use specious arguments like the following:

Originally Posted by Tulkas
Tethering is just passing your data through one device to another. I paid for that data. To use as I see fit. It is only theft if I am using something that i did not pay for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtwwg
Jailbreaking isn't for running illegal applications, it's for having CONTROL over the device i BOUGHT, meaning I own it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27
For many, jailbreaking gives them the features or abilities that they don't have due to Apple's tight hand.

So, factual is spacious to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

No, you gentlemen signed a license agreement when you bought the phone and the data subscription. So you cannot just use the data or device as you see fit. The agreement you signed says no tethering and no unauthorized software, if you disagree with that don't get the iPhone. If you don't like Apple's tight hand, go get a different phone. Vote with your feet and your money. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head and made him buy an iPhone.

Why can't you use the device as you see fit? You own the damn thing. The data, sure, you signed an agreement, but is the agreement overly restrictive? That is exactly why net neutrality has become an issue. because not every shares your opinion that the customers should always just swallow what the carriers stick in their mouths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Spare us the self-righteous pseudo-civil rights kumbaya talk. Stand in line like the rest of us.

...and bend over. Some of us simply prefer to think for ourselves...

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #78 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

Um, just off the top of my head... car, boat, gun, house, camera, cough syrup, computer... sure you CAN do 'what you want' with them, but you'll go to jail if you use your computer for child porn, use your cough syrup for meth production, take pictures of someone undressing in a change room, run a brothel out of your home, rob a bank, drive around the lake drunk, drive without a license or intoxicated...
So ya, you CAN do what you want with what you have access to, but that doesn't mean you don't pay the price for your actions. Just because you don't get caught, doesn't mean it's ok.

Off the top of your head can you think of restrictions not put in place by the government?

If you use your computer to surf legal porn, you want your ISP deciding if that is OK? Or for Apple to decide what movies you can watch?

Legal restrictions are not the same as contractual restrictions. Now, thinking of the items in your home that you own outright, third parties are allowed to arbitrarily restrict your usage?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #79 of 176
[QUOTE=Maestro64;1499205BTW the same was true 20 yrs again what only a small % use most of the phone bandwidth. Phone networks were only designed to handle 1/3 of all the possible calls if everyone tried making a call at once.[/QUOTE]

You'd think that they'd wake up and realize that many of us don't even have landline phones these days. The trend is toward cell phones. I also understand that the US isn't exactly a little nation. The amount of money needed to upgrade systems so your cell phone works just as well in Philadelphia as it does in rural Kansas (as a random example), is rather large. That said, it's not like they couldn't see this coming. The first cellphone I ever saw was in a movie - Lethal Weapon 1. They've had time to think about this and see that 1/3 of all possible calls is no longer going to be the case. They ought to reverse it and say that 1/3 of all calls are likely to be landline, and plan accordingly.
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post #80 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

funny that evil microsoft doesn't care if you install a hacked ROM on their winmo phones, but apple, palm and google all scream bloody murder if you try


Probably because any hack to a winmo phone can only make it better, whereas iPhone seems to be ok as is for the vast majority of users.
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