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Barnes & Noble e-reader rumored to be merging of Kindle, iPhone

post #1 of 82
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Book seller Barnes & Noble is expected to announce its own e-reader next week, and a new report states the device will sport both black-and-white e-ink and a multi-touch, iPhone-like color display.

New information and photos of the device were provided to Gizmodo, which revealed that a majority of the device will have a traditional e-ink display, much like the Amazon Kindle, which provides superior battery life. It will be a 6-inch screen with an 800x600 pixel resolution.

But the bottom portion of the device will have an LCD color display sporting multi-touch technology. It will be used to browse through and select books in a manner described to be like Apple's own coverflow. The second screen is 480x144 pixels with a 150dpi resolution.

"The choice of two different screens (and techs) on one device serves to overcome the shortcomings in e-ink, which lacks of richness and interactivity; and LCD's eyestrain and battery drain," the report said. "(The LCD will remain inactive while books are being read.) Contrast this with the Kindle which uses the e-ink display to emulate a slow menu system and requires a physical keyboard for searching. Likewise, Sony's e-ink readers with touchscreens layers have reduced visibility."

The purported hardware has only a handful of buttons for flipping pages, searching, purchasing books, and connecting to social networking sites. The new device is believed to have a lending feature that will allow friends to share books and post excerpts to sites like Facebook and Twitter. "But that may be cut before launch," Gizmodo said.

The alleged new Barnes & Noble reader. Credit Gizmodo.

Like the Amazon Kindle, the device is also expected to have connectivity with a cellular data network for the purchase and download of books on the go. The price is also expected to be less than that of the Kindle, with losses recouped through the sale of books.

The yet-unnamed device allegedly had an internal name that was reportedly "terrible," but may change before it is announced.

This week, Barnes & Noble invited members of the press to an Oct. 20 announcement in New York. In its invitation, the retailer touted that it will be "a major event in our company's history." Previously, rumors had persisted that the book store would be selling its own branded e-reader hardware, designed by Plastic Logic.



Apple is rumored to be working on its own tablet device, which sources have told AppleInsider will debut in the first quarter of 2010. Recent reports have suggested Apple is looking to portray the device, at least in part, as an e-reader.

The hardware maker has allegedly contacted publications such as The New York Times and publishers like McGraw Hill and Oberlin Press about making their content available in an upcoming device. And a group led by Time Inc. hopes to create a digital store for magazines to allow them to sell their content on Apple's long-rumored tablet.
post #2 of 82
Looking forward to seeing the apple tablet,
if apple changes the macbook air into a tablet that would be interesting and fitting to the name
post #3 of 82
Mmmmhhh, Fictionwise was acquired by B&N so they have a good amount of books.

Now I have an iLiad but I would trade the 8" of the iLiad for this ereader.

No tablet can deliver the same experience of an e-ink reader.
post #4 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Book seller Barnes & Noble is expected to announce its own e-reader next week, and a new report states the device will sport both black-and-white e-ink and a multi-touch, iPhone-like color display. ...

This indicates to me that the biggest problem with larger iPhone-lke products, is battery life and power. Otherwise why go to the trouble of including the e-ink portion at all? It seems logical therefore, that if Apple does release a tablet/eReader and gets sufficient battery life out of it, that this product may already be a loser.

People always trot out that nugget about "LCD eyestrain" also but I've never seen anyone quote an actual study on it nor ever heard of a proper scientific study being done. As an avid reader, an owner of tens of thousands of books and an avid device enthusiast that has used most pocket readers that have ever been on the market in North America, I don't personally believe it's anything more than a myth.

Eyestrain is eyestrain, you get it if you use your eyes too much and as far as I have ever experienced, it's the same for paper as it is for LCD screens.
post #5 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This indicates to me that the biggest problem with larger iPhone-lke products, is battery life and power. Otherwise why go to the trouble of including the e-ink portion at all? It seems logical therefore, that if Apple does release a tablet/eReader and gets sufficient battery life out of it, that this product may already be a loser.

People always trot out that nugget about "LCD eyestrain" also but I've never seen anyone quote an actual study on it nor ever heard of a proper scientific study being done. As an avid reader, an owner of tens of thousands of books and an avid device enthusiast that has used most pocket readers that have ever been on the market in North America, I don't personally believe it's anything more than a myth.

Eyestrain is eyestrain, you get it if you use your eyes too much and as far as I have ever experienced, it's the same for paper as it is for LCD screens.

e-ink also is reflective, rather than emitive so it can be read in direct sunlight. A huge advantage, I think.
post #6 of 82
So, we now get Barnes and Noble news too? This isn't about Apple!

Glad to see more e-ink devices, and more competition for the Kindle. Don't know how I feel about the LCD in this device though. Sounds like a screen just for the UI instead of a UI built for the screen.
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post #7 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

e-ink also is reflective, rather than emitive so it can be read in direct sunlight. A huge advantage, I think.

I think it's a case of picking the right technology for the right situation. Since any Apple tablet is likely to be a relatively general purpose computer, it needs a screen that is more responsive than e-ink. For something that is a dedicated book reader, e-ink is to my mind clearly the better technology, as you mentioned, due to being able to read it in sunlight with ease.

B&N's idea of mixing the two seems interesting. I'll be interested to see what it does to battery life. I've been extremely impressed with the battery life of my Kindle, especially after I forgot to take the charger with me on a business trip a couple of weeks ago.

If it offers them a better way of searching the store it will be a good thing. That's an area where Kindle is weak, since searching is still an often futile effort since there are still an awful lot of books not available, and the top selling lists don't seem to offer much to me either, since most of the books Amazon seem to sell are either by Dan Brown, or angry Republicans from Fox News!
post #8 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Eyestrain is eyestrain, you get it if you use your eyes too much and as far as I have ever experienced, it's the same for paper as it is for LCD screens.

Reading in dim light exacerbates eye strain with paper, if you do it for too long. In good light it's not an issue.

I like the idea of this reader with the small LCD for manipulation and the eInk for reading. Wonder how it affects the cost though...

Also where is my new iMac and Mac Mini? Or did I miss a major announcement?
post #9 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

So, we now get Barnes and Noble news too? This isn't about Apple!

You certainly take a very narrow view of the world.
post #10 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You certainly take a very narrow view of the world.

Last I checked, this is AppleInsider. If I wanted to know what Barnes and Noble was doing, then I'd go to a site about them. I come here for Apple news. This is not Apple news. (Then again, with as much MS, Google, Amazon news that is posted here, I guess I'm mistaken about what this site is for.)
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post #11 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Last I checked, this is AppleInsider. If I wanted to know what Barnes and Noble was doing, then I'd go to a site about them. I come here for Apple news. This is not Apple news. (Then again, with as much MS, Google, Amazon news that is posted here, I guess I'm mistaken about what this site is for.)

When other companies directly compete with apple by producing directly competing products, believe it or not, it effects apple and thus is apple news
post #12 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Last I checked, this is AppleInsider. If I wanted to know what Barnes and Noble was doing, then I'd go to a site about them. I come here for Apple news. This is not Apple news. (Then again, with as much MS, Google, Amazon news that is posted here, I guess I'm mistaken about what this site is for.)

It also pointing out how long Apple has taken to get in the game IMO. First the iTab was to take on Netbooks now its to take on e-readers. It has a lot to live up to at this point.
But as we all know Apple will do it right and it will all just work at least by the 2nd or 3rd gen.
post #13 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

When other companies directly compete with apple by producing directly competing products, believe it or not, it effects apple and thus is apple news

But there is nothing it's competing against as Apple has yet to deliver.
post #14 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

When other companies directly compete with apple by producing directly competing products, believe it or not, it effects apple and thus is apple news

I don't complain about those news but I think that Apple doen't have any e-ink ebook reader, or any ebook reader.

And no, iPhone doesn't count as a ebook reader.
post #15 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This indicates to me that the biggest problem with larger iPhone-lke products, is battery life and power. Otherwise why go to the trouble of including the e-ink portion at all? It seems logical therefore, that if Apple does release a tablet/eReader and gets sufficient battery life out of it, that this product may already be a loser.

People always trot out that nugget about "LCD eyestrain" also but I've never seen anyone quote an actual study on it nor ever heard of a proper scientific study being done. As an avid reader, an owner of tens of thousands of books and an avid device enthusiast that has used most pocket readers that have ever been on the market in North America, I don't personally believe it's anything more than a myth.

Eyestrain is eyestrain, you get it if you use your eyes too much and as far as I have ever experienced, it's the same for paper as it is for LCD screens.

eink doesn't use power unless it's redrawing the screen - LCD's always draw power, so when you're staring at eink for hours on end, you're using almost no juice, but LCD is a constant drain. constant drain is not as good a not using power.

why should there be an actual study that says eink is better (less stressful) than LCD. Speaking from personal experience (and that's all I need to know) my eyes start to strain when I'm READING on an LCD. I can work four hours on the same screen and not experience strain.. it's something about reading for long periods. just because you don't have the same problem, doesn't mean a scientific study needs to be conducted. regardless of the findings, you still won't have a problem, and I will. E-ink is the better solution for my eyes (I don't care about yours)
post #16 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Last I checked, this is AppleInsider. If I wanted to know what Barnes and Noble was doing, then I'd go to a site about them. I come here for Apple news. This is not Apple news. (Then again, with as much MS, Google, Amazon news that is posted here, I guess I'm mistaken about what this site is for.)

Dude the good majority of news here is Apple news shut up, not everything has to be 100%, and is it hurting you that they posted something else? It's not like they decided to hold back some Apple news to post this, so just shut up. If you don't like the topic of the article just don't freaking read it! It isn't that hard to figure out. Stop being a whiner and just move on they posted something about Barnes and Noble, so what? Like I said its not like they are holding back Apple news in favor of posting this
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post #17 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

No tablet can deliver the same experience of an e-ink reader.

Agreed. You can't read a book on an LCD or any modern display, besides e-ink.

Personally I think the perfect book reader display is colored e-ink with with the richness of OLED and a decent response time too. Which has yet to be invented.
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post #18 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

So, we now get Barnes and Noble news too? This isn't about Apple!

The point is not necessarily if it is ABOUT Apple, but if is RELEVANT to Apple. I'd say this article is.

I like the idea of the LCD touch screen. The elimination of a physical keyboard is definitely a good thing. The ability to offer such things as speedy touch navigation and cover-flow, etc, makes sense.
post #19 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

I don't complain about those news but I think that Apple doen't have any e-ink ebook reader, or any ebook reader.

And no, iPhone doesn't count as a ebook reader.

that depends who you ask. My office mate uses his Touch all the time to read ebooks.

Also: the article specifically cites the Tablet. For those too lazy to read the end of the article:

Quote:
Apple is rumored to be working on its own tablet device, which sources have told AppleInsider will debut in the first quarter of 2010. Recent reports have suggested Apple is looking to portray the device, at least in part, as an e-reader.

The hardware maker has allegedly contacted publications such as The New York Times and publishers like McGraw Hill and Oberlin Press about making their content available in an upcoming device. And a group led by Time Inc. hopes to create a digital store for magazines to allow them to sell their content on Apple's long-rumored tablet.

whether you agree or not is moot, but AI thinks its apple news because AI thinks its a competing product.

People need to quit bitching about news stories no one is forcing them to read.
post #20 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

that depends who you ask. My office mate uses his Touch all the time to read ebooks.

Yes, and I have used for years a PDA to read books but it doesn't convert PDA's in competing products to e-ink readers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

Also: the article specifically cites the Tablet. For those too lazy to read the end of the article:

Yes, but the iTablet is only a rumor so, Apple doesn't have any product competing with e-ink readers.
post #21 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

Yes, and I have used for years a PDA to read books but it doesn't convert PDA's in competing products to e-ink readers.

it does, if someone buys one for that purpose. If the iPod Touch is a gaming machine, it sure as hell is an e-reader!

Quote:
Yes, but the iTablet is only a rumor so, Apple doesn't have any product competing with e-ink readers.

Its a rumour website. And the tablet is coming.

AI has reported on the tablet before. This news article is about a product that would, in their eyes, compete with a product they routinely do stories on.

This is a non-issue. Back to topic: B&N in Canada?
post #22 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

This is a non-issue. Back to topic: B&N in Canada?

I don't konw, I live in Spain. But I buy ebooks at fictionwise
post #23 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

e-ink also is reflective, rather than emitive so it can be read in direct sunlight. A huge advantage, I think.

Yeah, e-ink has it's advantages. I just think the whole "your eyes will get strained when reading from a screen versus paper" thing to be overblown.
post #24 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

... why should there be an actual study that says eink is better (less stressful) than LCD. Speaking from personal experience (and that's all I need to know) my eyes start to strain when I'm READING on an LCD. I can work four hours on the same screen and not experience strain.. it's something about reading for long periods. just because you don't have the same problem, doesn't mean a scientific study needs to be conducted. regardless of the findings, you still won't have a problem, and I will. E-ink is the better solution for my eyes (I don't care about yours)

So ... we should all just go back to believing in magic then? What you experience is fact simply because you experience it?

I've already probably talked about this too much, but yes ... I think rather than just take the common wisdom on the matter that someone should either prove reading from a screen causes eye-strain or people should stop saying it does.

For that matter, who can even define "eye-strain"?

Is it, as you argue above, merely a subjective experience of tiredness and nothing to do with biology, LCD screens, paper books or facts? In that case, everyone who ever got frustrated in a reading experience and gave up experienced "eye strain." Needles to say, the number of possible causes of that kind of eyestrain are limitless.

You also missed my point a bit by couching this in terms of "you might not get it, but I do." I have got eyestrain from reading a computer screen. I have also got eyestrain from reading too many books or reading under poor lighting conditions. That still doesn't mean, imply or prove the common wisdom that "eyestrain" (whatever that is), is caused by reading off an LCD computer screen versus paper and that therefore computers are inherently bad for reading.
post #25 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

When other companies directly compete with apple by producing directly competing products, believe it or not, it effects apple and thus is apple news

Apple does not (and probably will not) make a dedicated e-book reader. No direct competition. Apple also does not sell e-books. They may get into this business, but I doubt it.
By your argument, the e-book reader will be competing with the entire MacBook line, as well as iPod Touch/iPhone. Apples and Oranges.

My point is that this isn't Apple news. I rather hear about products and services APPLE is coming out with. There are plenty of sites out there, and this one should focus on Apple due in part to its name. Barnes and Noble dealings have nothing to do with the insides of Apple. If I want to hear everything at once, there are sites for that (Engadget, CNet, etc...)
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post #26 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

When other companies directly compete with apple by producing directly competing products, believe it or not, it effects apple and thus is apple news

affects

Also Apple has no product in this arena.
post #27 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

affects

Also Apple has no product in this arena.



Read entire article.

And to camroidv27: there is an eBook reader app. that makes it an ereader product, albeit barely. Its about the same as calling the iPod touch a gaming machine. Threadbare argument, but one that Apple makes. But again, read the entire article, the end of which I even posted earlier in the thread. The tablet, not the touch, is the competitor.

I wonder if people sit in coffee houses and talk about this pedantic crap when reading the New York Times.
post #28 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


People always trot out that nugget about "LCD eyestrain" also but I've never seen anyone quote an actual study on it nor ever heard of a proper scientific study being done. As an avid reader, an owner of tens of thousands of books and an avid device enthusiast that has used most pocket readers that have ever been on the market in North America, I don't personally believe it's anything more than a myth.

Eyestrain is eyestrain, you get it if you use your eyes too much and as far as I have ever experienced, it's the same for paper as it is for LCD screens.

I agree. I have Sony and Kindle e-ink readers and experience no less eye fatigue with them than with my iPod touch. If anything, I have less with the touch and am able to read considerably smaller font sizes due to its essentially perfect illumination. But I'm afraid we're not all equal in this department. My wife, who has excellent vision, has a real problem with LCD backlighting. After only a couple of hours her eyes become red and irritated, whereas I can--and often do--read all day on similar devices with little if any problem.
post #29 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spad View Post

I agree. I have Sony and Kindle e-ink readers and experience no less eye fatigue with them than with my iPod touch. If anything, I have less with the touch and am able to read considerably smaller font sizes due to its essentially perfect illumination. But I'm afraid we're not all equal in this department. My wife, who has excellent vision, has a real problem with LCD backlighting. After only a couple of hours her eyes become red and irritated, whereas I can--and often do--read all day on similar devices with little if any problem.

LCD eyestrain usually occurs when the LCD is is large and covered by a sheet of reflective glass, such as a 24 " iMac. That is why Apple is switching back to matte/ non glare hopefully on each of its devices.
post #30 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

LCD eyestrain usually occurs when the LCD is is large and covered by a sheet of glass, such as a 24 " iMac. That is why Apple is switching back to matte hopefully.

Okay, I wasn't going to comment on this any more, but this is precisely what I was talking about.

This is a total BS, made-up "factoid" about LCD eyestrain above. I see stuff like this all the time and most people just nod their heads.

Why do people have such an aversion to facts and knowledge? What prompts someone to just make up crap like this and spew it out on the Internet as fact?

It's so easy to just "say stuff."
(and so hard to actually make sense and think about things apparently)
post #31 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

e-ink also is reflective, rather than emitive so it can be read in direct sunlight. A huge advantage, I think.

And from my experience, it's difficult to read in lower light levels, and of course, impossible to read with the lights turned off, as could be the case when in bed, where your partner is trying to get some sleep.
post #32 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Last I checked, this is AppleInsider. If I wanted to know what Barnes and Noble was doing, then I'd go to a site about them. I come here for Apple news. This is not Apple news. (Then again, with as much MS, Google, Amazon news that is posted here, I guess I'm mistaken about what this site is for.)

Appleinsider is about news stories and articles about anything that affects Apple, its products, or its users.

You don't think that stories about e-readers is relevant to us? It is. Many of us read using our iPhones or Touches. If Apple does come out with the rumored tablet, it will affect that as well.

People here buy readers, and are interested in what the competition is doing.
post #33 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

But there is nothing it's competing against as Apple has yet to deliver.

Yes it is. There has already been a study showing that more books are sold to iPhone and Touch users than to kindle users.

I'd say that Apple has been in the game since OS ver 2.0 came out.
post #34 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

I don't complain about those news but I think that Apple doen't have any e-ink ebook reader, or any ebook reader.

And no, iPhone doesn't count as a ebook reader.

Very very wrong.
post #35 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

eink doesn't use power unless it's redrawing the screen - LCD's always draw power, so when you're staring at eink for hours on end, you're using almost no juice, but LCD is a constant drain. constant drain is not as good a not using power.

why should there be an actual study that says eink is better (less stressful) than LCD. Speaking from personal experience (and that's all I need to know) my eyes start to strain when I'm READING on an LCD. I can work four hours on the same screen and not experience strain.. it's something about reading for long periods. just because you don't have the same problem, doesn't mean a scientific study needs to be conducted. regardless of the findings, you still won't have a problem, and I will. E-ink is the better solution for my eyes (I don't care about yours)

Under certain circumstances e-ink is better, and under others, LCD's or OLEDs will be better.

Our eyes and brain doesn't know whether the light is reflected or emitted. It's all the same. What makes a difference is how bright it is, what the contrast is, the colors etc.

I can set my most of my iPhone readers to emulate the exact look of the Kindle screen (which I've used). I don't like that look, too dim, with too little contrast, but it can be done.

Proper studies should be done. If all readers can be adjusted properly, there should be no difference in eyestrain between the technologies.
post #36 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Agreed. You can't read a book on an LCD or any modern display, besides e-ink.

Wrong!

Quote:
Personally I think the perfect book reader display is colored e-ink with with the richness of OLED and a decent response time too. Which has yet to be invented.

If possible, that would be best.
post #37 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Apple does not (and probably will not) make a dedicated e-book reader. No direct competition. Apple also does not sell e-books. They may get into this business, but I doubt it.
By your argument, the e-book reader will be competing with the entire MacBook line, as well as iPod Touch/iPhone. Apples and Oranges.

My point is that this isn't Apple news. I rather hear about products and services APPLE is coming out with. There are plenty of sites out there, and this one should focus on Apple due in part to its name. Barnes and Noble dealings have nothing to do with the insides of Apple. If I want to hear everything at once, there are sites for that (Engadget, CNet, etc...)

Apple won't sell a dedicated book reader, a product whose time may never come for the masses, unless they are given away for free, or little cost. But Apple will likely come out with a product that as an e-book reader is very good, likely much better than what's around now. Thoughts are that Apple's device will allow embedded video, music, motion graphs, and other advantages that other readers can't yet hope to compete with.

And you're wrong about Apple not selling e-books. They sell thousands of them in the App Store. I've bought more than a few.
post #38 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

affects

Also Apple has no product in this arena.

Wrong!
post #39 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Wrong!

It's not wrong if you care about your eye sight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If possible, that would be best.

Ah, so I wasn't wrong - really.
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post #40 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes it is. There has already been a study showing that more books are sold to iPhone and Touch users than to kindle users.

I'd say that Apple has been in the game since OS ver 2.0 came out.

Well we're really talking a reading specific device. Laptops play music but are rthey competing against iPods and Zunes?
I love readin books using BeamitDown and Kindle on the iPhone but wouldn't consider it a full fledge reading experience. For one thing you don't get a full page on the screen.
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