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WSJ: Apple's Chamber departure not in shareholders' interests

post #1 of 196
Thread Starter 
In an editorial published Wednesday, The Wall Street Journal called out Apple's resignation from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce as an act of "green political correctness," rather than a smart business decision.

The editorial singled out both Apple and Nike, two companies that recently forfeited their stake in the Chamber over its stance on greenhouse gas emissions. It noted that former Vice President Al Gore, a member of the Apple Board of Directors, stands to profit from potential anticarbon legislation.

"Mr. Gore has also invested in renewable energy technologies that could make him even richer than he already is if new climate rules make renewables more competitive with carbon energy," the Journal asserted.

It also noted that Tim Cook, Apple's chief operating officer, also sits on the board of Nike. The editorial suggested that the timing of both companies' departure was not an "accident."

The Journal suggested that the tax impact for both companies would be relatively small. Under the proposed Boxer-Kerry bill in the Senate, Apple's carbon taxes would reportedly be between $43 million and $108 million a year. And Nike, the report said, has most of its factories overseas.

It concluded that companies should not "dump" the Chamber over one issue. If every company did that, it said, the Chamber wouldn't be able to serve anyone's interests, as it would be too worried about each individual company's specific agenda, rather than the health of business in general.

"Green virtue is easier when someone else is paying for it," the editorial said.

Apple has earned its share of fans and critics in the wake of its decision. Chamber President Thomas Donohue took on Mac maker after it said it would prefer the Chamber to have a "more progressive stance on this critical issue." Donohue said Apple forfeited the chance to "advance a 21st century approach to climate change."

But Apple earned accolades as well, from U.S. Secretary of Energy Steven Chu, who called the move "wonderful." Greenpeace, too, applauded Apple's decision to leave the group.

Recently, the Chamber threatened litigation if the EPA enacts greenhouse gas regulations. The Chamber would rather see Congress set policy through legislation. That caught the ire of Apple and Nike.

While Apple left the Chamber entirely, Nike only withdrew from its board. The shoe-maker has retained its membership. Preceding them in departure were three utility companies, Pacific Gas & Electric, PNM Resources and Exelon.

Last month, Apple began reporting its carbon emissions on its Web site. The company noted that its products produce a great deal more emissions than its operations.
post #2 of 196
The WSJ is a very conservative journal. Its business articles are usually good, but its editorials are often not.

This is one of those "not" times.

It's interesting that the first companies to depart the chamber were power producing companies, companies that would be thought of as staying in line with the chamber's goals.

Considering who the chamber consists of, i'm happy Apple departed.

I expect more to do so.

Apple belongs to the Business Roundtable, many members are not members of the chamber.
post #3 of 196
Quote:
It also noted that Tim Cook, Apple's chief operating officer, also sits on the board of Nike. The editorial suggested that the timing of both companies' departure was not an "accident."

No kidding? You think he should abstain/vote/have different opinion on something like this based on which board meeting he is sitting in?
post #4 of 196
Rupert Murdoch's mouth piece takes a stand for corporatocracy. Wow. Who would have guessed it?
post #5 of 196
They have been so wrong, so often lately, why bother with them?
post #6 of 196
Gee... WSJ (sister publication to Fox news under Murdoch) says short term profits are more important than stemming global climate change.
What a shock.
post #7 of 196
As a shareholder and a former member of the American Chamber of Commerce in Japan, I'm glad Apple left.

Does the chamber really add to Apple's bottom line?

And when did Rupert Murdoch ever do anything beneficial for the environment, political or natural?
post #8 of 196
Quote:
an act of "green political correctness," rather than a smart business decision.

In the wise words of the Wu-Tang Clan: C.R.E.A.M.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me
post #9 of 196
Just counting the days until Murdoch's empire crumbles to dust....
Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.
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post #10 of 196
The US Chamber of Commerce is a right wing front organization for the Republican party. So it comes as no surprise that the WSJ would side with them. Not even sure how they are allowed to use their name because they are rabidly anti-government.
post #11 of 196
Al Gore stands to profit from investing in "green" technology if the climate bill passes... how is that a bad thing? Gore is no longer a Senator and thus wouldn't be voting for the bill himself, he simply recognized that doing something about climate change is going to require large investments in an area that few established business were providing goods/services. Frankly, the WSJ should be commending him for his foresight as a businessman for that and not using it as evidence that Apple will somehow be harmed when legislation passes.
post #12 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Just counting the days until Murdoch's empire crumbles to dust....

Right. Fox News is the most watched news channel in the US. The ratings for their primetime lineup dwarfs MSNBC and CNN and has for years. Murdoch is definately not in tune with the way America feels. He's out of touch. Most Americans support and crave a super left wing liberal agenda. That's why Obama's ratings are so high - cause people really love bigger government and higher taxes. I'm sure Murdoch's empire is falling soon. Hold your breath.
post #13 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The WSJ is a very conservative journal. Its business articles are usually good, but its editorials are often not.

Indeed.

So this is going to hurt Apple eh? How, exactly? Let's just gloss over that one.

Moving on, we'll instead note that Nike also withdrew (sort of), and concoct a conspiracy about the board members. Uhhhh, OK.

Note that the other companies involved, like Pacific Gas & Electric, PNM Resources and Exelon, have no obvious connections at all, which basically blows that theory.

Then, after noting that the companies are withdrawing over their stance on climate change, we'll complain that the Board shouldn't be chasing individual demands. Huh?

Maury
post #14 of 196
It costs almost nothing for Apple and Nike to be "progressive" in their stance vs the Chamber. They both know that the majority of pollution and carbon dioxide they produce in other countries will never be subject to US controls or US carbon taxes.

This board seems to be heavily populated with left wing geeks who don't really understand economics, psychology, marketing or Apple as business enterprise. And they don't like people to disagree with their positions because they wildly vilify those people/enterprises. The best thing for the folks that this description fits is to finish college.
post #15 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paramount View Post

The US Chamber of Commerce is a right wing front organization for the Republican party. So it comes as no surprise that the WSJ would side with them. Not even sure how they are allowed to use their name because they are rabidly anti-government.

You realize you sound very uneducated when you say things like that. If your spew crap like that, pleae provide some sort of proof to back up your outrageous claim.

I'm no CoC fan. I believe they are really only real agenda is to keep dues coming in to support their employees. Any chamber I've ever joined has proven to be able to help grow my business about 1% (give or take a percent).

But please, spare us the left wing agenda which currently seems to be... blame everything on the RNC. It's weak. And desperate.
post #16 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh1

Who cares about WSJ anymore?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They have been so wrong, so often lately, why bother with them?




Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The WSJ is a very conservative journal. Its business articles are usually good, but its editorials are often not.

This is one of those "not" times.

It's interesting that the first companies to depart the chamber were power producing companies, companies that would be thought of as staying in line with the chamber's goals.

Considering who the chamber consists of, i'm happy Apple departed.

I expect more to do so.

Apple belongs to the Business Roundtable, many members are not members of the chamber.

Right - the Wall Street Journal doesn't know what they're talking about- especially that Walt Mossberg!
post #17 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The WSJ is a very conservative journal. Its business articles are usually good, but its editorials are often not.

This is one of those "not" times.

It's interesting that the first companies to depart the chamber were power producing companies, companies that would be thought of as staying in line with the chamber's goals.

Considering who the chamber consists of, i'm happy Apple departed.

I expect more to do so.

Apple belongs to the Business Roundtable, many members are not members of the chamber.

I agree with you totally.
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #18 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Just counting the days until Murdoch's empire crumbles to dust....

I agree, but sadly as long as there are Palin and Rush followers to lap it up it here to stay.
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Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #19 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Just counting the days until Murdoch's empire crumbles to dust....

I hope not... my favorite tv shows are on FOX.
post #20 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

Right. Fox News is the most watched news channel in the US. The ratings for their primetime lineup dwarfs MSNBC and CNN and has for years. Murdoch is definately not in tune with the way America feels. He's out of touch. Most Americans support and crave a super left wing liberal agenda. That's why Obama's ratings are so high - cause people really love bigger government and higher taxes. I'm sure Murdoch's empire is falling soon. Hold your breath.

I didn't know it had a 'news' channel!
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
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post #21 of 196
Is "politically correct" still an active insult? It seems so 90s. Now it just sounds like a term the right uses for any politics of the left. WSJ: not just wrong, but wrong in an obsolete way.
post #22 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post

I hope not... my favorite tv shows are on FOX.

I agree they have many excellent shows. I just don't think the shows they call 'news' are very good.
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Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #23 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I didn't know it had a 'news' channel!

Spend less time in the glades dude. Look around at the world.
post #24 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree they have many excellent shows. I just don't think the shows they call 'news' are very good.

I wouldn't know... I get my news from the internet. But I do know that I don't want the "empire to crumble" as for no other reason than competition. Do we want CNN to be the only game in town? I don't.
post #25 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

blame everything on the RNC. It's weak. And desperate.

Yes, it is.
post #26 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

You realize you sound very uneducated when you say things like that. If your spew crap like that, pleae provide some sort of proof to back up your outrageous claim.

I'm no CoC fan. I believe they are really only real agenda is to keep dues coming in to support their employees. Any chamber I've ever joined has proven to be able to help grow my business about 1% (give or take a percent).

But please, spare us the left wing agenda which currently seems to be... blame everything on the RNC. It's weak. And desperate.

Oh please... CoC (appropriate acronym, btw) is the leading shill for Corporatism, the cancer stage of capitalism. CoC opposes ALL regulation (kinda like the NRA opposes ALL limitations on weapons), and is a megaphone for every outsourcing corporation as they union bust their way to a new age of feudalism.
That, btw, is not 'left wing'... I have lots of right wing friends who agree that Corporatism has jumped the shark, owing allegiance to the corporation above country.
post #27 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yes, it is.


Well done.
post #28 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

Right. Fox News is the most watched news channel in the US. The ratings for their primetime lineup dwarfs MSNBC and CNN and has for years. Murdoch is definately not in tune with the way America feels. He's out of touch. Most Americans support and crave a super left wing liberal agenda. That's why Obama's ratings are so high - cause people really love bigger government and higher taxes. I'm sure Murdoch's empire is falling soon. Hold your breath.

The difference between Fox and MSNBC is that the 20% of right wing dead-enders need that self-affirming echo chamber and religiously (literally) watch the likes of Bleck.
MSNBC types think for themselves and don't need their hourly dose of talking points.

BTW, indeed, when polls ask Americans if they consider themselves Liberal or Conservative, people tend to think of themselves as conservative (small 'c') and answer that way.
But when you poll issue by issue, whether its gay rights, single payer, gun control, etc etc, most americans end up looking pretty Liberal.
Funny about that, huh?
post #29 of 196
Apple is exercising it's freedom to withdraw from a private organization. They don't need the WSJ editorial board's approval, nor even to abide by the board's view of Apple shareholder interest. Nor is the business community, as a whole, obligated to march in lockstep.

Mr. Gore is now a private individual who formerly held public office.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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post #30 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Oh please... CoC (appropriate acronym, btw) is the leading shill for Corporatism, the cancer stage of capitalism. CoC opposes ALL regulation (kinda like the NRA opposes ALL limitations on weapons), and is a megaphone for every outsourcing corporation as they union bust their way to a new age of feudalism.
That, btw, is not 'left wing'... I have lots of right wing friends who agree that Corporatism has jumped the shark, owing allegiance to the corporation above country.

GOB, you have very little credibility. China, Russia, Vietnam, all have renewed capitalist ventures springing up all over.. Bully for you that you have right wing friends .. WOW. You are so cool. Feudalism...... man you are really on top of things. Awesome you GOB
post #31 of 196
The Wall Street Journal has become the Pravda of the neo-conservative right. Its editorial board can be depended on to support the right wing position without questioning or analysis. Its worldview has become so detached from reality that one could easily mistake it for the delusional writings that appeared in Maoist China during the Cultural Revolution. Reading it would almost be entertaining but for the realization that so many actually believe its blatant propaganda.
post #32 of 196
You've got to appreciate the WSJ's warped criticism of Al Gore's investments in green companies Evidently, if you support enviornentally sound business practices, you must yourself invest in UNsound businesses, so as to avoid a conflict of interest Makes sense... ?
post #33 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree, but sadly as long as there are Palin and Rush followers to lap it up it here to stay.

You got your cable channels mixed up...

PMSNBC is the cable channel that obsesses over Palin and Rush to the point that some, like that dork Keith "I still think Bush is in office" Olbermann, needs psychiatric counseling as in yesterday and the rest I just term as brown noses, not brown shirts, brown noses... Because they have their heads stuck up so far Obama's a$$ they couldn't report the news accurately if their life depended upon it!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #34 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by catchblue22 View Post

The Wall Street Journal has become the Pravda of the neo-conservative right. Its editorial board can be depended on to support the right wing position without questioning or analysis. Its worldview has become so detached from reality that one could easily mistake it for the delusional writings that appeared in Maoist China during the Cultural Revolution. Reading it would almost be entertaining but for the realization that so many actually believe its blatant propaganda.

You sound so much more educated and world savvy than the WSJ writers and researchers. You are the true oracle.. we have to believe you, oh very educated one. Yours is the true word.
post #35 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

The difference between Fox and MSNBC is that...

MSNBC types think for themselves and don't need their hourly dose of talking points.

Good Lord, I laughed so hard I almost wet myself... MSNBC types think for themselves, now that's Larry the Cable Guy funny!

Get'R Done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

BTW, indeed, when polls ask Americans if they consider themselves Liberal or Conservative, people tend to think of themselves as conservative (small 'c') and answer that way.
But when you poll issue by issue, whether its gay rights, single payer, gun control, etc etc, most americans end up looking pretty Liberal.
Funny about that, huh?

Asking 25 Democratic Liberal voters, 5 Independent Moderate voters and 10 Republican Conservative voters is how those "polls" work!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #36 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Gee... WSJ (sister publication to Fox news under Murdoch) says short term profits are more important than stemming global climate change.
What a shock.

what is mildly amusing about this is that, for various reasons, many folks are now focusing their custom on those companies that are striving to be more green. So Apple's better batteries, removing toxic materials from their computers etc could just gain them enough to make up for any profit loss dropping out of the Chamber could have perhaps caused.

Also, just like with teenagers, companies are not fond of being told what to do. Encouragement via 'how it profits you' works way better.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #37 of 196
Gore, Chu, Greenpeace... Tells me all I need to know about Apple's decision!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #38 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbear View Post

GOB, you have very little credibility. China, Russia, Vietnam, all have renewed capitalist ventures springing up all over.. Bully for you that you have right wing friends .. WOW. You are so cool. Feudalism...... man you are really on top of things. Awesome you GOB

Excellent example of right wing rebuttal. Glad you're so onboard with the easy melding of capitalism and totalitarian communism. But you're right... they do fit well together.
post #39 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbear View Post

It costs almost nothing for Apple and Nike to be "progressive" in their stance vs the Chamber. They both know that the majority of pollution and carbon dioxide they produce in other countries will never be subject to US controls or US carbon taxes.

This board seems to be heavily populated with left wing geeks who don't really understand economics, psychology, marketing or Apple as business enterprise. And they don't like people to disagree with their positions because they wildly vilify those people/enterprises. The best thing for the folks that this description fits is to finish college.

Excellent point. I think that Apple's board should be replaced by one that has managed a company better than Apple's board has. If you can find one, post it here. Just for proper capitalist comparison, since January 1, 2004, AAPL is up about 18-fold, and its P/E (non-GAAP) is around 20 (that is, the value isn't a speculative bubble).
post #40 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

Right. Fox News is the most watched news channel in the US. The ratings for their primetime lineup dwarfs MSNBC and CNN and has for years. Murdoch is definately not in tune with the way America feels. He's out of touch. Most Americans support and crave a super left wing liberal agenda. That's why Obama's ratings are so high - cause people really love bigger government and higher taxes. I'm sure Murdoch's empire is falling soon. Hold your breath.

You don't need to hold the majority view to have the biggest ratings on a news cable channel.

What you need is rabid people who tune it in because it reinforces their own extreme views.

And that's enough extreme politics here.
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