Originally Posted by fdp3
I used to feel the same way. Back in 1994 I heard all that "left wing propaganda" about where the RNC wanted to take the nation. Tax cuts for the wealthy. Starve the Beast. Maybe an opportunistic war in the middle east. Radical deregulation of financial markets and energy trading.
Nice blame everything bad in the world on the Republicans, I might let you get away with that if it wasn't for your ignorance likely being picked up by others on this forum.
First; the republicans did justcut taxes for the weathy they did so for just about everybody. Now we have the democrats saying they will raise taxes on the wealthy but the reality is everybody will be paying more taxes.
Second; the wars in the middle east would have happened no matter what. It is a result of a defective culture and really bad political processes over there. Without a doubt I can assure you more wars will be fought there in the future. That will be the case until the world gives up on the people in the middle east and effectively and completely wipes them out. The important thing is to take care of that before the arms build up going on over there is complete.
Third; the issues with banking are not the result of one party or a lack of regulation or even one specific piece of legislation. A good deal of the problem came from out side influences and demands being made on the banking industry. Some of these from heavily democratic states. When banks are threatened with discrimination lawsuits because they won't lend to known risk areas, in effect forced to make bad loans and told not to worry about it then why should the management of these banks care. It should come as no surprise here that nobody has ended up in court yet, because frankly the government doesn't want the dirty laundry washed in public.
Fourth; deregulation of the energy sector is exactly what you want if you expect to make alternative energy sources viable. If energy is dirt cheap then investment in other sources goes down. It should be noted that that is exactly what has happened.
I didn't believe any of it. Then.
Well you should now as the perception of high energy prices has stimulated a lot of research and investment. I say perception because energy prices aren't really that high though nobody believes me when I tell them gasoline use to cost $10 a gallon.
If we stick to what we can actually point to in the real world, climate change denial has become rather "fringe" position.
Why is it a fringe position to say I see nothing to suggest that global warming is real or that it is man made. It is most interesting to note that Russian scientists have come to a different conclusion from their own data. It is also very very interesting to note that the actual data used by the promoters of global warming in the USA have keep that data secret. In any event the claim of global warming flies in the face of what we are experiencing today.
"Fringe" as in not-supported-by-the-facts. The Chamber's support of that position is consistent with a fairly radical attitude that moderate conservatives have mostly abandoned.
This is one thing I find disgusting about you and people like you in the global warming camp. The Chamber said nothing that even comes close to what you have attributted to them above. They never said it is not happening they objected to current legislation being proposed. The Chanber is actually more centered than I am.
I'm not in favor of radicalizing the conversation either. But we can't simply write-off "left-wing" hyperbole any more. Far too much of it has proven to be frighteningly accurate.
What has been proven? Really I've highlighted this several times already in this thread but apparently nobody can say. Obviously what every IT is hasn't been proven all that well as we would have seen a response other than the uneducated saying you are wrong. If I'm wrong then there should be freely available EVIDENCE that man is the cause of global warming or that it is indeed happening. Yet I've seen nothing to back up these claims.
Global warming might be happening if every data set in the world indicated that. They don't however so before you can promote that you need to resolve those issues.
Second the data on CO2s influence on temperatures is not at all clear. Especially at the levels we are talking about. Clear this problem up and you might have a few more people on board. Worst there isn't even a solid link to past warm periods on the planet and CO2 levels. Further if Co2 levels have varied over the centuries when man was not around to influence those levels then how do you separate what is manmade from natural causes.
Personally I think most of you could do more good for the environment by going out and getting a shovel and planting a tree or two. It is obvious critical thinking isn't part of the sheeps mentality.