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WSJ: Apple's Chamber departure not in shareholders' interests - Page 3

post #81 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

Thank you.

Apology accepted ... I guess.

Whatever.
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post #82 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

I really think everyone here would benefit from reading this thread about so called climate change. Very informative, with a few real scientists heavily involved in the discussion.

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=646331

The cited data was reviewed by climate scientists with findings here, here, and more rigorous analysis in PDF here.
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post #83 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbear View Post

GOB, you have very little credibility. China, Russia, Vietnam, all have renewed capitalist ventures springing up all over.. Bully for you that you have right wing friends .. WOW. You are so cool. Feudalism...... man you are really on top of things. Awesome you GOB


Looks like GQB has another fan(boy).
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post #84 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

Right. Fox News is the most watched news channel in the US. The ratings for their primetime lineup dwarfs MSNBC and CNN and has for years.


Seems to me that "The National Enquirer" was at one time, maybe still is, a top selling magazine ..... it was still crap. Although, to be fair, it did break that story about Elvis being the love child of Tammy Faye Baker and that area52 alien, so I guess that deserves some recognition.
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post #85 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

So you agree that his review of Windows 7 is a crock, and that it isn't nearly as good as he thinks it is?

Melgross, I like it, I really like it. Good one.
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post #86 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


It is a very bad thing to have public money funneled to Gore to support technology that has no demand and in the end will be under written by the government.

Dave


You're right. We should just continue to give it to the failing banking industry to support their "winning" business models. They are so much more deserving.
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post #87 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

The cited data was reviewed by climate scientists with findings here, here, and more rigorous analysis in PDF here.

Hannity versus your cites? No contest, buddy!
post #88 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

No, genius. I am just someone who had to live under socialism for 22 years and I know what's going on in this country.

Just curious .... 22 years "where"?
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post #89 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Hannity versus your cites? No contest, buddy!

What was I thinking?
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post #90 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Just curious .... 22 years "where"?

Cuba.
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post #91 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Just curious .... 22 years "where"?

I'd snarkily suggest "parent's basement" ... but, I won't.
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post #92 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

Because so are soooooo schmart: By definition, climate is ALWAYS changing. I am not fooled by any of their B.S. Everytime the government comes up with some scheme to supposedly protect us from ourselves, we are the ones that end up paying for it by means of higher taxes and added fees. The Earth has been cooling since 1998 and that is why they now call the hoax climate change. Sorry if you can't see this hoax for what it is.


How then, do you explain the melting polar ice caps, which is well documented from photos and satellite imagery?
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #93 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

I'd snarkily suggest "parent's basement" ... but, I won't.

Kiss off.
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post #94 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

How then, do you explain the melting polar ice caps, which is well documented from photos and satellite imagery?

How do you explain the fact that the North Pole has ben completely ice free in the past?How do you explain the fact that the South Pole is actually gaining ice mass and the North Pole has gained two-year ice mass as well?
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post #95 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

Kiss off.

Sorry, that was rude.

When I hear the word "Hannity", strange behavior befalls me.
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post #96 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

Sorry, that was rude.

When I hear the word "Hannity", strange behavior befalls me.

Liberals can't handle the truth. I should know.
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post #97 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

Cuba.

Congratulations on living in USA now. I'm a Canadian But still appreciate US as a country that is free .... free to express an opinion as you wish, wether we agree with you or not. Hopefully you can appreciate it even more, having experienced living without that freedom. Please remember that even though we may not agree, it's still important to try and respect each other's opinion. Just my 2 cents worth.
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post #98 of 196
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post #99 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Congratulations on living in USA now. I'm a Canadian But still appreciate US as a country that is free .... free to express an opinion as you wish, wether we agree with you or not. Hopefully you can appreciate it even more, having experienced living without that freedom. Please remember that even though we may not agree, it's still important to try and respect each other's opinion. Just my 2 cents worth.


I met many a Canadian when I was still in Cuba; pretty cool people in general. I have lived in the U.S. for over 15 years now so I guess I become pretty mad when I see certain groups pushing agendas that are designed to enslave us and take away our freedoms since I have that previous experience in my life and they seem pretty transparent to me.
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post #100 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

http://arctic-roos.org/observations/...1_ice_area.png

Ice is FORMING in the N. Pole.

In some places, but overall it's decreasing.
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post #101 of 196
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post #102 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

In some places, but overall it's decreasing.

Watch and learn. Al Gore has a mic cut off when an adversary has him against the ropes:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...fb39f80bc.html
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post #103 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

Just counting the days until Murdoch's empire crumbles to dust....

Then you will reach a very big number since his is pretty much the only traditional media company running counter to the general collapse of the traditional media business.
post #104 of 196
BIG CORPORATION leaves a CHAMBER group over GLOBAL WARMING direction.
over which direction they think people should take on GLOBAL WARMING and people defend them by saying Right wing conservatives Suck and Liberals against Big Corporations Rule. And some of you claim to think for yourself.

It will help Apple as it will hurt the competition more! That simple.

One must take Al Gores financial gain into account when listening to his opinion.

Global warming is caused by more than one thing, not all related to man, and government regulations are a huge reason for much of the warming, and adding additional bandages is not going to solve the issue, just make it harder for most of us to live well, except Gore, Jobs, ...
post #105 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

I met many a Canadian when I was still in Cuba; pretty cool people in general. I have lived in the U.S. for over 15 years now so I guess I become pretty mad when I see certain groups pushing agendas that are designed to enslave us and take away our freedoms since I have that previous experience in my life and they seem pretty transparent to me.


Nothing wrong with having a passion about what we believe in, unless of course, our passion is so strong that it blocks out all other points of view. That is something that we all have to guard against. I keep reminding my kids to keep "walking around the elephant". I heard about it years ago and it's even more relevant today. It goes something like this:

Many years ago there were 3 blind men living in India. Having been blind from birth, they had never "seen" an elephant. One day, a villager took each man, one by one, up to an elephant so they could feel it to determine what an elephant was like. The first man was led up to the front of the elephant . He put out his hands and felt the elephant's trunk. The second man was taken to the side of the elephant. The third man was taken to the back of the elephant. Each man used their hands to feel what an elephant felt like. The first man was positive an elephant was a huge round object with a mouth at the end.

The second man was equally convinced that an elephant was a massive wall of flesh, flat and leathery. The third man was also convinced that only he knew what an elephant was really like. It was a small round thing with hair on the end that kept on moving all over the place.
The real problem was that none of the men had "walked around the elephant" so they all only had one point of view and therefore none of them knew what an elephant was really like.

Now you know why I enjoy these boards so much. They expose me to a lot of different information, some of which I can use, and some of which I can't. But I must never stop "walking around the elephant". Good Luck, I'm out.
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post #106 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

Watch and learn. Al Gore has a mic cut off when an adversary has him against the ropes:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...fb39f80bc.html

Your inference is that Gore had the microphone cut off. The local paper reported it differently saying:

Quote:
When McAleer tried to debate further, his microphone was cut off by the moderators.
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post #107 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by danvid36 View Post

Cuba.

Time to let it go, man.

Please, please, at some point - 22 years is a long time - take advantage of all the plurality of views and scientific thinking that this great country has to offer, and not be blinded by the nonsense on either the left or the right. Please try to keep an open mind. O/w, you're falling into the same intellectual trap that you did when/where you grew up.
post #108 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by aga View Post


Oh heck, how about another solution, but this time, make it an off the wall one. Okay Bob. Why not split that C from that O2, and then you have carbon and oxygen. That sounds great Bob, but what should we do with the carbon? Make diamonds out of them and sell them. What better way to trap carbon, get a tax credit, and save space?

I'm trying to decide if this is the funniest or just the dumbest post ever .... oh hell. let's "go out on a limb" and say .... wait for it.... the dumbest....! Sorry TeckDud, you lost your title.
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post #109 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas View Post

Careful, they may be killing your shows next week

It's quite possible... but they will remain some of my favorite shows, just on Blu-ray instead of TV...
post #110 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

I'm trying to decide if this is the funniest or just the dumbest post ever .... oh hell. let's "go out on a limb" and say .... wait for it.... the dumbest....! Sorry TeckDud, you lost your title.

Yeah, and that's why I deleted most of it, cause I figured most of you wouldn't get the point (not that I was direct about it, but I wasn't trying to be).

You can believe what you want to believe, but making diamonds to solve global warming is a joking yet feasible solution of solving the problem, just like passing government legislation.

Fact is, there are many solutions to the issue, and many of them the government is the problem. For me, I do not need someone to tell me how to live my life. They only get in my way of improving things. Guess for many, they need and prefer the rules, even illogical rules.

If Apple stays on their current political agenda route, it will only hurt their sales. I have predicted the companies growth fairly well. Does not mean my success in doing so will last, but at least I have a plan should the time ever come to vote with my wallet like Apple just did with the Chamber.
post #111 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbear View Post

GOB, you have very little credibility. China, Russia, Vietnam, all have renewed capitalist ventures springing up all over.. Bully for you that you have right wing friends .. WOW. You are so cool. Feudalism...... man you are really on top of things. Awesome you GOB

Yes, interesting that capitalism is so appealing to such totalitarian states.
As I recall this kind of structure is called fascism, but hey if you make a buck . . .
post #112 of 196
OK, again, and not to get too meta:

Look at the arguments being made by the people who think climate change is some kind of hoax. They are, in no particular order:

--Al Gore is a hypocrite, stands to make money from legislation to control carbon emissions, or both. I have no idea why this tells us anything about the veracity of climate science, but there you go.

-- Liberals suck.

-- Doing anything about global warming will lead to some kind of socialist enslavement. Or, I guess, even more socialist enslavement, since we respond legislatively to social ills all the time and have been for centuries. I'm assuming curtailing my right to pour Toluene into the local water supply, or use women and children as chattel, or build a smelting plant on the floor of the Grand Canyon (or, for that matter, to simply execute anyone who crosses me), are all part of a pattern of socialist enslavement.

-- The usual bizarre assertions that somehow climate scientists have managed to miss or ignore some blindingly blindingly obvious basics regarding the mechanisms of climate, such as the fact that there are natural long term and short term cyclical patterns that must be accounted for when calculating anthropogenic forcing.

-- The same clutch of zombie lies that have been circulating for years and which will never die no matter how many times how many people patiently refute them with how many citations.

So if the case for global warming is so thin, why are the arguments against it always and predictably so half-assed, incoherent, beside the point or based on bullshit? I know some of the folks here just don't care about what's true or not; they see global warming as some kind of proxie fight with hippies and would continue to insist that it was a crock if the world were literally in flames. It's a shame that stupid cultural wars can serve to make people celebrate pig ignorance as if it were a badge of honor, but whatever.

But some of the folks making these arguments must actually believe that they are doing so in good faith, based on what limited exposure to the evidence they've allowed themselves.

For those of you for whom this is the case, doesn't the very low quality of the aggregate case being made for your side kind of make you wonder, a little? When you post some kind of "Ha! I guess you liberals didn't think of THIS!", only to have someone immediately post a link that shows that what you thought was the case is simply untrue, or of course has been taken into account when the science is being done, or is based on some kind of basic misunderstanding of how physics, science, peer review or just simple logic works, and that happens over and over again, don't you start to maybe suspect that you have been misled?

I mean this in all sincerity: I would think anyone who can reason past "I don't like the sort of person I imagine makes an argument for something, so I'll be against that no matter what" would take the measure of the sort of tactics that are habitually deployed by other "against no matter what" people and be at least a little motivated to look a little further into the facts at hand. Maybe even a little further than Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh or that chain email that explains why Al Gore is the devil.
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post #113 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

You're right. We should just continue to give it to the failing banking industry to support their "winning" business models. They are so much more deserving.

They are not deserving at all which is why so many are upset with government right now. Note I did not reference Democrate or Republican because each shared their own bit of ignorance with the banking fiasco. Unfortunately the current administration learned nothing and is pushing the banks to make more bad loans to pump cash into the economy. It is really sad that nothing has changed.

It's not like people including congressman didn't see the banking colapse coming. The problem was well known for at least a couple of years before anything happened. It is one reason why I spent a year and a half prior to the collapse paying off loans and putting money away. Whole industries such as farming made it a point to correct or reduce their exposure to debt because the banking situation. Farming communities have done well through this reccession simply because they where open to contrarian opinion (some might say conservative).

Now what is really sad is that in past reccessions no body offered to bail out the farmers. Yet banks get billions. I honestly believe that part of the reason is that government knows it was culpable due to the way banks have been pressured to make bad loans. I also realize that powerful woman in congress had much of their personal fortune to loose, so naturally they used tax payer money to cover their fat asses.

Al Gore just puts a public face on the decline of government and a sense of duty people once had. These days it is all about the old boy network and finding ways to scare the public into thinking their future is doomed if they don't accept more taxes and filtering of money to the rich. Frankly it is all the same thing, a big drag on the economy, and a system biased to keeping the rich rich via preferrential treatment. If you are upset over the banking issue you really should be upset with Al Gore and the global warming crowd, they are just different facets of the same problem.


Dave
post #114 of 196
What is important is not the health of business. The health of the earth and the health of the people is what is important. You cannot live in a dirty world where people are dying because of business profit.

Next, they will argue that people will lose their jobs. Sure, I will rather be jobless than sick.

This is just Murdoch continuing to interfere in order to make profit. The Chamber of Commerce is corrupt. They will sell their mothers to make profit.

Screw WSJ!
post #115 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

OK, again, and not to get too meta:

Look at the arguments being made by the people who think climate change is some kind of hoax. They are, in no particular order:

[...]

I mean this in all sincerity: I would think anyone who can reason past "I don't like the sort of person I imagine makes an argument for something, so I'll be against that no matter what" would take the measure of the sort of tactics that are habitually deployed by other "against no matter what" people and be at least a little motivated to look a little further into the facts at hand. Maybe even a little further than Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh or that chain email that explains why Al Gore is the devil.

As usual a poignant, succinct and funny post.
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post #116 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

In some places, but overall it's decreasing.

Some think it is decreasing but even that hasn't been proven. Let's face it ever spring Snow melts, this may surprise you if you are a city boy used to seeing Snow trucked away by I can tell Snow does melt and so does ice.

Now you may try to say it is the warming air that is melting the Snow. To which I say yes the air warms up every spring and melts the Snow. Some years are just more agressive than others.

Besides all of that you have long term cycles in the Pacific Ocean that can have a massive impact on ice at the north pole. As you may suspect water will have a greater impact on that ice cap than air.

Another thing to realize is this isn't the first time in history, we are talking recent history here that there has been a melt off of ice in the North. So what evidence is there that this melt off is special in some way. The short and sweet is there is none, all we got is several sets of scientist saying the ice has melted. It may have were they measured but at least one group has admitted that their instruments had calibration errors that invalidated their original findings. Of course this has been surpressed by the lunatic fringe.

In any event let's say the ice is actually thinner than expected, the problem is how do you link that to manmade global warming. That is how do we factor in manmade causes along with everything else that is happening. That is known long term environmental cycles, volcanic activity, output from the sun and other factors. The reality is man is a puny factor when you consider these other factors.

In any event show me the mechanism where by mans activities have caused the ice to melt. It simply isn't good enough to say so, nor has there been a model put forth that clearly links CO2 to a planetary temperature increase. Yes I know there are lots of computer models that the developers think they have nailed down but absolutely none of them have been proven correct.

Sadly you will like many here, dismiss my point of view as a nut case from the extreme right. That is not the case at all, I'm not however gullible nor easily persuaded to adopt ideas that don't stack up. Nor do I have time for scientist that come off as crack pots. So if you don't like my point of view talk to an astronomer or a geologist who each have differing points of view on the subject.

You will eventually see that very well educated people don't always agree on this subject. In the case of Astronomers and Geologist they take a much longer view of events on and off the planet. The fact is there are a huge number of factors involved in the earths temperature, until there is a way to combine all of those into a computation we will not know what is going on.

The one really obvious problem with the global warming predictions is that they make the assumption that the sun has no impact on temperatures. This summer should make it glaringly obvious that a quite sun cools off the earth real fast, yet the suns impact is a constant with repect to the global warming crowd. Frankly it would be sad to here these people in normal scientific discourse but unfortunately they are very skilled at manipulating public opinion via thinly vieled threats to ones future. Sadly the science part of the debate died a long time ago, now it is all about threats and scare techniques to move a political agenda.


Dave
post #117 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Some think it is decreasing but even that hasn't been proven. Let's face it ever spring Snow melts, ...

Sadly the science part of the debate died a long time ago, now it is all about threats and scare techniques to move a political agenda.

*Sigh*

(head hits desk)

THUD
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

Reply
Blindness is a condition as well as a state of mind.

Reply
post #118 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The WSJ is a very conservative journal. Its business articles are usually good, but its editorials are often not.

This is one of those "not" times.

It's interesting that the first companies to depart the chamber were power producing companies, companies that would be thought of as staying in line with the chamber's goals.

Considering who the chamber consists of, i'm happy Apple departed.

I expect more to do so.

Apple belongs to the Business Roundtable, many members are not members of the chamber.

They are clueless.
post #119 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

What is important is not the health of business. The health of the earth and the health of the people is what is important. You cannot live in a dirty world where people are dying because of business profit.

I'm not. Sure where you picked up this stupidity at but it is a clear sign you have been manipulated by the global warming crowd. No body here wants a dirty world! I will repeat so that you understand - no body here wants a dirty world.

The whole debate revolves around the idea put forth that global warming is happening, that it is due to CO2 build up and that you and I are the cause. The problem is there is no evidence of any quality to support this idea.
1.
There isn't even agreement that the planet is actually warming.
2.
There is no proof at this point that any CO2 build up that may be happening is manmade. Nor are the scientist even positive that the build up of CO2 at these levels even has an impact on planetary temperature.
3.
Where is the evidence that all of this CO2 is coming from manmade sources?

Mind you each and everyone of us exhales CO2. So if you think this is about a dirty environment then logically you are a dirty person.
Quote:

Next, they will argue that people will lose their jobs. Sure, I will rather be jobless than sick.

I'm not sure if you are still in grade school or the kid of a welfare mama but that statement above is gross. Not having a job is far worst that being sick. I know full well what I'm talking about as far as having no job or easy prospects as I went through the early eighties reccession. I also suffer from a chronic disease that gets uglier as time goes on, so please keep you comments about the value of work to yourself.
[/quote]

This is just Murdoch continuing to interfere in order to make profit. The Chamber of Commerce is corrupt. They will sell their mothers to make profit.
[/quote]
The Chamber isn't set up to make a profit. If you are talking about the members I think you need to wise up. If you would educate yourself you will find that many of those members are very concerned about the environment. Some do much for the environment without proding from the government nor green peace. One guy down the road supplements his plants electrical demand with a windmill and other energy revcovery techniques. It is very possible to be a busnessman and at the same time be concerned about the environment.

Notably in the case of the Windmill the owner made a good business case for the installation. In other words the windmill was justified just like any other piece of hardware in the plant.
Quote:

Screw WSJ!

Before you get made I suggest growing up. Read the WSJ and a host of other publications. If you had been doing so you would have realized that many companies have been attacking their environmental impact for years. Often this is promoted quitely if at all, because these days no matter what you do you should realize there are critics. Often woefully uninformed critics like yourself.


Dave
post #120 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtisEMayle View Post

*Sigh*

(head hits desk)

THUD

Try hitting that head a few times more, maybe it will free you from the RDF around the global warming movement. The other option is to come up North where it is cold and ask a few people about global warming.

After which I would suggest that you look deeper into Al Gore interest in global warming and how he is setting himself up to profit from your tax dollars. You can however have an impact here by talking to your congressman or woman and making sure this country doesn't go down this road blindly. These people need to know that you expect decisions based on sound science and not a flock of idiots scaring people into a life of servitude, poverty and social regression.

You see even if global warming is proven to be correct, there are positive ways to deal with it. That is moving forward with technology, the involvement of industry openly and actively avoiding social regression.

In any event please continue to bang your head until you get it. You are being manipulated to serve someone else agenda. An agenda that has nothing to do with the environment other than the gloss put on it to get the public to lap it up.


Dave
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