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Mac sales grow 11.8% as Apple takes 9.4% U.S. market share - Page 3

post #81 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not as much....

What I should have asked is : What's driving Toshiba's growth in the US?
post #82 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Tell it to Acer- I bet they're pretty happy with those numbers.

What's to be happy about .... check out their financial info ( you can google finance it) sales up, profits down, Yea TeckDud, they're happy alright, happy it's not even worse.
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post #83 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Ouch.

Sales are up but they're hardly making any money. It's what happens when you head straight for the bottom. And you get just that . . . horrid netbooks. Even Michael Dell - of all people - admitted it:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10...l_club_speech/

For those who don't remember the 90s, Dell was once the PREMIUM PC maker, not the best place to find a cheap PC. Their ASPs were far higher than the rest of the industry, and 10 years ago it was THEM saying that they'd never sell a sub $1000 PC. Interesting?
post #84 of 169
market share vs market cap vs profit
i'd give up market share to put more money in my pocket, funny apple stock has done very well
you can chase the prices down, thats why netbooks are killing the profitability of pc makers
also consumer satisfaction with netbooks isn't as high as apple's
how many billions is SJ strategy putting in the bank??
market leader doesn't need to be market share leader
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post #85 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Again TeckDud, fyi ... sales growth absolutely does not automatically equate to success ... does acer make as much profit as Apple? If I sell 1 computer and make 500.00 profit and you sell 4 computers and make 100.00 on each are you a more profitable company than me? HINT 4x100.00=400.00, 500.00 is bigger than 400.00 ... I can't dumb it down any further for you ....Sorry.

It's called market share. look it up- I don't have time to explain it to a NEWBEE.
post #86 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


I believe in the truth.

I explained both the benefits of glossy glass, and the downside. I also explained the benefits and downside to matte

She was torn over which to get. So I told her that rightly or wrongly, most pros are buying, or preferring, the matte screen. So she thought that she should do what the pros were doing as this is her major
.

A post for the ages. Thank you , thank you, MELGROSS.
I will keep this in my archives.
post #87 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I WOULDN'T LAUGH AT 48.3% GROWTH IF I WERE YOU- looks rather FOOLISH.

It appears that Apple may well be overtaken by Toshiba after the next quarter. But if you think that anyone at Apple will loose one second of sleep over that, you are likely mistaken.

Market share in numbers is just one part of the picture. But think of the whole infrastructure that has to be built from manufacturing to shipping to service. When (not if) the bottom falls out of the netbook market, thousands of people will be without a job.

As has been mentioned here many times, Apple follows its own strategy for growth. And that strategy has been working perfectly for years. Both in the Mac-world as well as in the iPhone world.

That makes Apple a LEADER, all those that seek market share at any cost are just FOLLOWERS!
post #88 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No whining necessary. But just look at the numbers for Acer for the answer to any of your questions.

ea
your so tight 3oo dollar net books compare to MBP
apple sells at %91 market share in its class

or add the apples two mini computers in the mix and
the itouch/iphone are fine computers
you can't have it both ways
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post #89 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

It appears that Apple may well be overtaken by Toshiba after the next quarter. But if you think that anyone at Apple will loose one second of sleep over that, you are likely mistaken.

Market share in numbers is just one part of the picture. But think of the whole infrastructure that has to be built from manufacturing to shipping to service. When (not if) the bottom falls out of the netbook market, thousands of people will be without a job.

As has been mentioned here many times, Apple follows its own strategy for growth. And that strategy has been working perfectly for years. Both in the Mac-world as well as in the iPhone world.

That makes Apple a LEADER, all those that seek market share at any cost are just FOLLOWERS!

Dude, Netbooks are leading the industry , not MacBook Airs. Get real.
post #90 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

ea
your so tight 3oo dollar net books compare to MBP
apple sells at %91 market share in its class

or add the apples two mini computers in the mix and
the itouch/iphone are fine computers
you can't have it both ways

Don't forget your MacBook Air, Dude. Remember- it fits inside an interoffice envelope!
post #91 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It's called market share. look it up- I don't have time to explain it to a NEWBEE.

I'm sorry I keep looking at my bank statement and I don't see a line anywhere for market share. Since you're clearly a financial wiz, please educate me about the relationship between one's pocketbook and market share.

I only have an economics degree from an Ivy league school, so please speak slowly for my sake.
post #92 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I WOULDN'T LAUGH AT 48.3% GROWTH IF I WERE YOU- looks rather FOOLISH.

no you truly look stupid saying that 48 % growth with 4 % percent profit looks impressive
its not
its very sad
and against 30 billion in cash and growing
w/billion dollar farms coming online
and 1/2 billion dollar pre flash buys
5 explosive product lines
vs a company that make's electronic trash
acer makes a great kitchen web surfer for granny who never turns it on

dammit teckstud i thought you was a cool dude from the big apple like me

pulleeezeee
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post #93 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Don't forget your MacBook Air, Dude. Remember- it fits inside an interoffice envelope!

MBA not for me
i bought the 15inMBP 3.02ghZ and the glossy rocks call of duty 4
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post #94 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

no you truly look stupid saying that 48 % growth with 4 % percent profit looks impressive
its not
its very sad
and against 30 billion in cash and growing
w/billion dollar farms coming online
and 1/2 billion dollar pre flash buys
5 explosive product lines
vs a company that make's electronic trash
acer makes a great kitchen web surfer for granny who never turns it on

dammit teckstud i thought you was a cool dude from the big apple like me

pulleeezeee

I am I am- we love our apple prods. but I refuse to not call something that is selling and infiltrating every aspect of society a flop. Look at every kid going to school with a netbook. why aren't they lugging an Apple around, brucep? tell me- why?
post #95 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I'm sorry I keep looking at my bank statement and I don't see a line anywhere for market share. Since you're clearly a financial wiz, please educate me about the relationship between one's pocketbook and market share.

I only have an economics degree from an Ivy league school, so please speak slowly for my sake.

Ok OK -so Acer is doomed and all these Netbooks that keep on growing don't mean jackshit. Give me more kool-aid now- I need more !!!!!
post #96 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

It appears that Apple may well be overtaken by Toshiba after the next quarter. But if you think that anyone at Apple will loose one second of sleep over that, you are likely mistaken.

Market share in numbers is just one part of the picture. But think of the whole infrastructure that has to be built from manufacturing to shipping to service. When (not if) the bottom falls out of the netbook market, thousands of people will be without a job.

As has been mentioned here many times, Apple follows its own strategy for growth. And that strategy has been working perfectly for years. Both in the Mac-world as well as in the iPhone world.

That makes Apple a LEADER, all those that seek market share at any cost are just FOLLOWERS!

Yes.

When you confine yourself to mainly the Premium end (and rule it), market share will naturally be less. Bottom feeders will keep putting out generic boxes on the cheap. That's the way it goes. Garbage tends to accumulate.
post #97 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If they lowered prices a bit, they hit a larger demographic, if they introduce an overpowered cube on top of the current models, they hit a larger market, if they unlock iphones, they hit a lager market. As I say, to suggest that they are doing something right by not doing these things simply because their share goes up a bit is plain wrong when every one of the changes would unquestionably increase marketshare.

So what? You've increase market share. Show me that you increase profitability.

Frankly, I couldn't care any less that there isn't an xMac.
post #98 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

It appears that Apple may well be overtaken by Toshiba after the next quarter. But if you think that anyone at Apple will loose one second of sleep over that, you are likely mistaken.

What's interesting is that Toshiba does all that just with laptops. Then again, so does Apple pretty much. They have mobile laptops and non-mobile laptops.
post #99 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Tell it to Acer- I bet they're pretty happy with those numbers.

Not really. Acer hopes Netbooks drive other products with higher margins to offset the losses.

We'll see how many notebooks and/or smartphones are purchased by notebook buyers when they announce their financial 3Q.
post #100 of 169
It humors to me to see Techstud on an Apple thread. I hope you don't judge by number of posts, but quality. As far as numbers go, growth rate is important and profit if you are in the market. AAPL the stock is doing fine, and the company is doing better so argue the merits of individual devices, but the Apple business strategy is the stuff of textbooks. For every misstep their is an omg. Who thought the App store would sell in the billions. Not Nokia, Not Microsoft. They are running scared. Let them bring W7 because the reality is the OS comes with the system and people don't upgrade windows unless they are on a service contract or their system crashes. Mac users on the other hand want to move with technology. That's all part of the deal. The rate of growth is above market which means we have new folks to enjoy the Mac ecosystem with.
post #101 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ok OK -so Acer is doomed and all these Netbooks that keep on growing don't mean jackshit. Give me more kool-aid now- I need more !!!!!

You have made it very apparent that you don't understand the math required to talk business. I don't know why you keep trying. When confronted with that fact you are reduced to cursing, exclamation points and you're tired yarn about drinking kool aid. Do you think that convinces anyone to listen and agree with your side? You only make yourself look foolish and immature.
post #102 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

You have made it very apparent that you don't understand the math required to talk business. I don't know why you keep trying.

Post count. he's trying to catch Mel
post #103 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Not really. Acer hopes Netbooks drive other products with higher margins to offset the losses.

Would Acer swap their netbook sales for iPhone sales? yah...i think so. Apple doesn't need netbooks.
post #104 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It's called market share. look it up- I don't have time to explain it to a NEWBEE.


At least take the time to learn it for yourself!
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post #105 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Would Acer swap their netbook sales for iPhone sales? yah...i think so. Apple doesn't need netbooks.

What do we mean by netbook other then a cheap POS laptop. The things that matter are does it fit in our pocket, does it fit in our backback, or does it sit on the desk and never move. Does weight matter? Or is it a combination? Don't let the analyst tell us what to buy or for that matter techstud. Buy what fits your needs and see where the numbers fall. My guess is Apple is serving a ever bigger audience and most are very happy
post #106 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Dude, Netbooks are leading the industry , not MacBook Airs. Get real.

Right, leading the race to the bottom. No thanks, TeckDud, I'll sit this one out.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #107 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I am I am- we love our apple prods. but I refuse to not call something that is selling and infiltrating every aspect of society a flop. Look at every kid going to school with a netbook. why aren't they lugging an Apple around, brucep? tell me- why?


Remember when everybody and their dog was carrying a Sony Walkman around? Where are they now? In a landfill?, buried in the garage? TeckDud, I know that you're not this stupid, so why are you acting like it? ....... Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you are this stupid.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #108 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Ok OK -so Acer is doomed and all these Netbooks that keep on growing don't mean jackshit. Give me more kool-aid now- I need more !!!!!

You don't need more kool-aid ... you need more brain cells, or at least the ability to use the ones you got.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #109 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

You have made it very apparent that you don't understand the math required to talk business. I don't know why you keep trying.

He has enough posts here that new posters and readers to this forum may not realize that he does not represent the average poster or human being. They may see his high post count and constant presence on a thread and decided to go elsewhere to post relevant, insightful information thinking that he represents AI community. That would be a shame. At least NonVendorFan/SeaHawkFan keeps getting banned often enough to require making a new username.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Post count. he's trying to catch Mel

And he will. Most of the regulars and frequent posters will take time to think about and write out thoughtful replies. As well as use the multiquote option. Compared to Teckstud's singular, empty rambling that could easily fit within an IHateApple Twitter of 140 characters and at a speed that would give a Howitzer machine gun a run for its money.
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post #110 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I WOULDN'T LAUGH AT 48.3% GROWTH IF I WERE YOU- looks rather FOOLISH.

Acer's quarterly profits - $107 million
Apple's quarterly profits - $1.23 Billion - before the adjustments that show the actual iPhone revenues taht bring it to $1.9 billion

Acer's year over year revenue growth - 5%
Apple's year over year revenue growth - 12% (again, before the adjustments)

Apple's results are from the the 2nd calendar quarter. The 3rd quarter results will be announced Monday. Projections are those results will show a 13.5% revenue growth and 16% earnings growth.

Acer made just $107 million on sales of $5.2 billion.

What good is 43% unit growth if those units aren't generating significant profits?
post #111 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

Acer made just $107 million on sales of $5.2 billion.

What good is 43% unit growth if those units aren't generating significant profits?

Nicevway to put it into perspective, but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears.

PS: I think Apple's break-even service to help forward HW sales, the iTunes Store, likely did more than that in net profit.
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post #112 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes I am, that was my point. When comparing HW sales each company should be accounted for seperately, not lumping them all into one giant conglomerate simply because they don't run OS X natiely.

But that 's the point. It's an industry trifurcated by the three major OS's.

It's looked at as Windows sales, Mac sales, and if it were possible to actually count the number of Linux users properly, Linux sales.

It makes no sense to compare Apple to Dell, or Hp, or Acer.

If someone buys a Dell and isn't happy with it (perish the thought!), they can easily buy an Hp next time, knowing that all of their stuff will transfer over easily. no big deal.

But it IS a big deal to move to a Mac. Not as big a deal as it used to be, but a big one nevertheless.
post #113 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

What I should have asked is : What's driving Toshiba's growth in the US?

I don't know, it's not growing that much.
post #114 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

A post for the ages. Thank you , thank you, MELGROSS.
I will keep this in my archives.

You should know by now that I don't make things up. I have my opinions, but I'm not going to force them upon my daughter.

I didn't HAVE to tell people that.
post #115 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Post count. he's trying to catch Mel

Never!
post #116 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But that 's the point. It's an industry trifurcated by the three major OS's.

It's looked at as Windows sales, Mac sales, and if it were possible to actually count the number of Linux users properly, Linux sales.

It makes no sense to compare Apple to Dell, or Hp, or Acer.

If someone buys a Dell and isn't happy with it (perish the thought!), they can easily buy an Hp next time, knowing that all of their stuff will transfer over easily. no big deal.

But it IS a big deal to move to a Mac. Not as big a deal as it used to be, but a big one nevertheless.

That is bullucks to have a chart representing HW PC vendors that only lists 9% for Mac PC, 90% for Bon-Mac PC and 1% for Linux PCs. When talking about HW you don't meantion the OS. It's pointless, especially when the world is moving closer to more OS-agnostic computing and interconnectivity vetween OSes is at an all time high and growing.

I want to know that Dell is losing markershare, that HP is holding ground and that a couple others selling many more Budget machines that before. I don't want this simple chart you propae to actually show a slight loss in overall PC sales marketshare because Apple jumped a percentage. It's disengenuois.

Earlier you made a comment about Apple having 30% marketshare. On the OS they would still be less than half that of Windows, but they would be largest OEM in the world. And if thy are already taking 33 cents of every dollar in PC sales, what do you think they'd take with 8-10x there current worldwide marketshare? Besides not being feasible with thet current model, it not logistically possible for other reasons and still pointless to compare an oWNs sale to an OS sale ad expect to get valid answers. Different business models for HP, Dell, Acer, MS and Apple. Let's measure the aspects that are directly measurable and lieave the wonky math to the overpaid pundits.


PS: Whether they know it or not, Buying a Mac is more likely going to get your Windows files transferee over better than buying a cheap non-Mac. Apple offers this service in their stores with purchase.
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post #117 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is bullucks to have a chart representing HW PC vendors that only lists 9% for Mac PC, 90% for Bon-Mac PC and 1% for Linux PCs. When talking about HW you don't meantion the OS. It's pointless, especially when the world is moving closer to more OS-agnostic computing and interconnectivity vetween OSes is at an all time high and growing.

It isn't just hardware sales. Why do you want to break it down that way? hat doesn't make any more sense.

Apple isn't really competing against any one PC hardware maker, though it may seem as though it is. They're competing against Microsoft and Windows.

It's interesting to look at individual makers, and compare the result, but it's not as meaningful as you think.

If Acer wasn't selling netbooks, and they again became a smaller company, would that make a difference to Apple if Dell gained the same amount Acer lost? Of course not. Apple would be in the same spot marketsharewise. The fact that they would move to number three is irrelevant.

Quote:
I want to know that Dell is losing markershare, that HP is holding ground and that a couple others selling many more Budget machines that before. I don't want this simple chart you propae to actually show a slight loss in overall PC sales marketshare because Apple jumped a percentage. It's disengenuois.

I'm not saying that it isn't interesting to see how the other makers are doing. I do that myself. I don't understand how you say that seeing that Apple moved up a percent in marketshare is disingenuous. I'm not proposing a simplified chart at all. I'm just saying that with a different OS, it has to be looked at differently.

Quote:
Earlier you made a comment about Apple having 40% marketshare. On the OS they would still be less than half that of Windows, but they would be largest OEM in the world. And if thy are already taking 33 cents of every dollar in PC sales, what do you think they'd take with 8-10x there current worldwide marketshare? Besides not being feasible with thet current model, it not logistically possible for other reasons and still pointless to compare an oWNs sale to an OS sale ad expect to get valid answers. Different business models for HP, Dell, Acer, MS and Apple. Let's measure the aspects that are directly measurable and lieave the wonky math to the overpaid pundits.

I don't remember saying anywhere that Apple had a 40% marketshare. Where did you get that?

I did say several things. One was that the iPhone now has a 30% marketshare in the US.

I said that within the past 100 days or so Apple laptops have garnered a 25% share of consumer sales, and I extrapolated from that, that it's possible that their desktops could have added another 10% to that.

That's not a 40% marketshare. It's not even a 35% marketshare. That's the numbers given for CONSUMER sales. Take business and government into account, and you get almost a 10% marketshare.

Quote:
PS: Whether they know it or not, Buying a Mac is more likely going to get your Windows files transferee over better than buying a cheap non-Mac. Apple offers this service in their stores with purchase.

Yes, I mentioned that.

If you use parallels, and now with ver 3, possibly VMWare, the entire PC can be transported over. Of course, upgrading from XP to 7 is still a b***h.
post #118 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Even more to the point, if you follow these numbers quarter after quarter, you will see that the Windows PC makers are constantly trading market share with each other, but that overall, the Windows PC market has been growing in only the low single digits for several years running now, which is very poor performance. Lest we forget, it's Apple against the Windows OEMs, not Apple against Acer, or Apple against Dell or HP or Toshiba. Compare meaningful things.

To be fair to the Windows market the old adage 'when you are at the top there is only one way to go--down' certainly applies. Past a certain point marketshare growth is impossible and then you have the problem of working like crazy just to keep what you have. While not definitive take a look at marketshare's numbers and note the tend is to Windows losing marketshare not gaining it.
Sure you may get a blip where Windows marketshare goes up compared to the previous month but the trend is definitely down over the long haul.
post #119 of 169
now that is a rounding error

oopz i meant the 2 or 3 people who would have bought a new mac if it came with a matte screen. Not that I don't think you should be able to buy a matte screen.
post #120 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I WOULDN'T LAUGH AT 48.3% GROWTH IF I WERE YOU- looks rather FOOLISH.

eh? I would if it didn't come with profit i.e. netbooks.
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