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The White House - Fox News is not a News Channel

post #1 of 244
Thread Starter 
There is no love lost between Obama's administration and Fox News. At one point Obama was on every major news channel in the US for a full day blitz and then some. Jay Leno had a heyday on his new show about it saying the president was on TV more in his first year than Bush was in all 8 years of his administration. All news channels that is but Fox.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...er-shot-at-fox

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politi...ox__again.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/we...dcarr.html?hpw

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ws-1925819282/

Is this strategy going to work out for Obama? Or is it true that he, as many of these stories quote, "seems to have brought a knife to a gunfight"?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #2 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

There is no love lost between Obama's administration and Fox News. At one point Obama was on every major news channel in the US for a full day blitz and then some. Jay Leno had a heyday on his new show about it saying the president was on TV more in his first year than Bush was in all 8 years of his administration. All news channels that is but Fox.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...er-shot-at-fox

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politi...ox__again.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/we...dcarr.html?hpw

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ws-1925819282/

Is this strategy going to work out for Obama? Or is it true that he, as many of these stories quote, "seems to have brought a knife to a gunfight"?

Fox News is a big budget Murdoch-sponsored extremist rightwing propaganda device dressed up as "legitimate media". They often fool quite a lot of *extremely* gullible people, for example those who believed that Iraq was about to launch chemical weapons at US cities "with 45 minutes notice using 'flying lawnmowers' with a range of 10,000 miles"... this preposterous garbage caused a run of duct-tape and plastic sheeting nationwide... (!!!!!!)

Fox is a modern emulation of what Goebbels was to Germany in WWII, more like what Baghdad Bob was to Iraq during Saddam Hussein's tenure. Similar authoritarian/fascistic mindsets at work.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #3 of 244
The media these days create events around fake "balloon boy" stories, hoaxes designed to promote what is popularly called "reality TV".

It's unreal how FOX is singled out. It's actually a very smart thing to pick an unrepresented segment of the population - the conservative. Most media conglomerates cater to the liberal demographic, so FOX has little or no competition.
post #4 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Fox News is a big budget Murdoch-sponsored extremist rightwing propaganda device dressed up as "legitimate media". They often fool quite a lot of *extremely* gullible people, for example those who believed that Iraq was about to launch chemical weapons at US cities "with 45 minutes notice using 'flying lawnmowers' with a range of 10,000 miles"... this preposterous garbage caused a run of duct-tape and plastic sheeting nationwide... (!!!!!!)

Fox is a modern emulation of what Goebbels was to Germany in WWII, more like what Baghdad Bob was to Iraq during Saddam Hussein's tenure. Similar authoritarian/fascistic mindsets at work.


I don't even know where to begin here. This sounds delusional--even for you. Clearly, you don't watch FNC at all. Gullible? How about those that can't tell the difference between opinion shows and "the news?"
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't even know where to begin here. This sounds delusional--even for you. Clearly, you don't watch FNC at all. Gullible? How about those that can't tell the difference between opinion shows and "the news?"

Actually, I do on occasions... it's quite entertaining, in a perverse kind of way. If they can successfully sell that particular brand of bull-biscuits to their supplicants , then they are going to continue that formula. They have as much right to sell their propaganda and distortions as the scientific community has the right to educate people with real facts .... (provided the latter don't tread on the wrong toes, of course).
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #6 of 244
from the white house play book

rules for radicals
#5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule

#13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

white house is delusional, thinking you can fool most of the people most of the time
people are questioning, especially as their jobs are gone and inflation, and currency devaluation is coming

mark what i say, it's coming, obama supporters don't want you to think about that,
THE ENDS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.
read and wonder where this county is headed, attack and marginalize, punish your opposition
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #7 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

They have as much right to sell their propaganda and distortions as the scientific community has the right to educate people with real facts .... (provided the latter don't tread on the wrong toes, of course).

Like Holger Bech Nielsen of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto, Japan?

"Test of Effect From Future in Large Hadron Collider: a Proposal" and "Search for Future Influence From LHC," are classics. Right up your alley.
post #8 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Like Holger Bech Nielsen of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto, Japan?

"Test of Effect From Future in Large Hadron Collider: a Proposal" and "Search for Future Influence From LHC," are classics. Right up your alley.

Wow, sounds like Ninomiya had too much sake the previous night.

In general though, the scientific community gets a more accurate handle on reality than the corporate media. Neither however are immune from political tampering and bias... and we all know that a very large number of scientists and researchers earn their livings from grants made available from the government of the private sector, so they have to be pretty careful not to come up with the "wrong" answers, even if they are "right". Nobody really wants to become a modern day Galileo, especially in these weird economic times.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #9 of 244
I'm not seeing the wisdom of picking a fight with Rupert Muroch -- that seems more than a little stupid. Murdoch's outlets reach a bunch of people.

Don't pick fights with people who buy ink by the barrel, and all that.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #10 of 244
fox news grows
the others slows
people can't be fooled all the time
i hear GE is trying to sell NBC, once they get the federal contract for a bunch of windmills then they cut loose
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #11 of 244
Fox news not a news channel? Well it's the truth!

More of a tabloid really.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #12 of 244
Thread Starter 
Your personal opinion of Fox aside. How wise is the president and his administration in this decision to attempt to marginalize a single network?

I don't care if you feel that Fox is less intelligent than a puppet show, sans puppets... Try to stay on point.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #13 of 244
Perhaps it is inappropriate to single out Fox as the villain of the piece. One positive thing about Fox: despite the "fair and balanced" slogan, which is patently a joke, at least they are not pretentious in their delivery... they are conservative and make no excuses for it.

CNN and other networks on the other hand pretend to be "fair and balanced", yet I haven't seen much, if any evidence of corporate-media support for "liberal" causes. On the other hand, they all jumped on board the war agenda without as much a single question (both Bush and Obama admins), they supported the $17 trillion "bailout" (read heist of the millennium) of the financial sector, and they turned a semi-blind eye to the wave of corporate crime and scandals that characterized the Bush Admin years. One of the worst things that happened to the US media was the media de-regulation in 1996 (Clinton Admin) which in effect reduced the US media to obedient lapdogs and generic trash, where honest journalism became a thing of the past, unless you worked for "boutique" or small independent publications.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #14 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Like Holger Bech Nielsen of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto, Japan?

"Test of Effect From Future in Large Hadron Collider: a Proposal" and "Search for Future Influence From LHC," are classics. Right up your alley.

Premise: A few scientists made somewhat outlandish speculation loosely grounded in very complex quantum theory.

Conclusion: ALL SCIENCE IS WRONG!

Logical Fallacy: /facepalm. There are no words.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #15 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Premise: A few scientists made somewhat outlandish speculation loosely grounded in very complex quantum theory.

Conclusion: ALL SCIENCE IS WRONG!

Logical Fallacy: /facepalm. There are no words.

So, 'cause it's about "very complex quantum theory" we should give them a pass?

Conclusion: You should maybe cut back on the number of /facepalm's.
post #16 of 244
And more from the "The Media is being led aroud by it's nose" department...

CNBC announced that the network had “breaking news" - The Chamber of Commerce announced Monday that it is throwing its support behind climate change legislation! Reuters declared “The Chamber of Commerce said on Monday it will no longer opposes climate change legislation, but wants the bill to include a carbon tax”, and the Washington Post, CNN, and the New York Times posted the story on their web sites.

Only, it was a hoax. Great fact checking there by the media!


And then there's ... well, the media still being led around by it's nose:

White House Communications Director Anita Dunn says "One of the reasons we did so many of the David Plouffe videos was not just for our supporters, but also because it was a way for us to get our message out without having to actually talk to reporters. We just put that out there and make them write what Plouffe had said -- as opposed to Plouffe doing an interview with a reporter."

It used to be that the news media had some credability...

Did you hear about the guy who had his car swallowed up by a sinkhole in Atlanta, GA? He complained that someone had moved the traffic cones and that was the reason he drove into the sinkhole, and someone had vandalized his car while he went for help? That got a lot of air time here in StL...

It's fraud. Ira Strong was taken to jail, "charged with failure to drive within a single lane, unlawful to drive around/ignore a traffic control device, obstruction of a law enforcement officer and tampering with evidence".

It's all about the headlines, reality is irrelevant.

So, why single out FOX?
post #17 of 244
Why single out Fox? It is a typical liberal tactic. You don't have to address opposition if you delegitmize it. People skeptical of Global Warming, they are deniers. People skeptical of the president, they are racists. News organizations that do not ask softball questions or just read the press releases... they aren't news organizations.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #18 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Your personal opinion of Fox aside. How wise is the president and his administration in this decision to attempt to marginalize a single network?

I don't care if you feel that Fox is less intelligent than a puppet show, sans puppets... Try to stay on point.

Well the thing is it's not just my opinion. Fox has done and said enough things I like the fact that he's addressing them directly. It would be one thing if they were some tv channel fighting the good fight and revealing truths about the world and mean old Obama was censoring them. They're about as opposite from that as you can be.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #19 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

So, 'cause it's about "very complex quantum theory" we should give them a pass?

Conclusion: You should maybe cut back on the number of /facepalm's.

You don't have the credentials to comment and neither of these scientists are putting this forth as TRUTH. They admit it's nothing more than speculation. How dare you bring this up as a rebuttal to a statement about scientific facts? What you are doing here is either showing a complete naivety as to how the scientific method works or you are just intentionally misrepresenting the situation. If it's the former, I hope you would be willing to learn the difference between fact and speculation. If it's the latter, your behavior is utterly reprehensible.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #20 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You don't have the credentials to comment and neither of these scientists are putting this forth as TRUTH. They admit it's nothing more than speculation. How dare you bring this up as a rebuttal to a statement about scientific facts? What you are doing here is either showing a complete naivety as to how the scientific method works or you are just intentionally misrepresenting the situation. If it's the former, I hope you would be willing to learn the difference between fact and speculation. If it's the latter, your behavior is utterly reprehensible.

It may be "very complex quantum theory" to you, but bullshit's bullshit to me, no matter how many degrees a person has...and this is bullshit. They're claiming future events are a possible cause of past issues at the LHC, for crying out loud!

What, do you just suspend common sense when people use big words, go along with what they say, and berate others who DO question their shit for lacking "credentials"?

Actually, that would explain many things.
post #21 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

It may be "very complex quantum theory" to you, but bullshit's bullshit to me, no matter how many degrees a person has.

What, do you just suspend common sense when people use big words, go along with what they say, and berate others who DO question their shit for lacking "credentials"?

Actually, that would explain many things.

They didn't present this as fact. They didn't present this as fact. They didn't present this as fact. Stop acting like they presented this as fact. Don't use it as an argument against scientific facts. Because they didn't present this as fact.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #22 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Perhaps it is inappropriate to single out Fox as the villain of the piece. One positive thing about Fox: despite the "fair and balanced" slogan, which is patently a joke, at least they are not pretentious in their delivery... they are conservative and make no excuses for it.

I don't agree with that. Their news coverage is far more balanced than their competitors. You may find some conservative slant, but not in the proportions one finds liberal slant and outright bias on the other networks.

Now, their opinion and analysis shows (O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity specifically) are clearly conservative. The difference is (as you say) they don't pretend to be anything by conservative (notice I didn't say "Republican.") They also have many liberal guests on their shows, even if they are berating them at times (that means you, Mr. O'Reilly and Hannity)

Quote:

CNN and other networks on the other hand pretend to be "fair and balanced", yet I haven't seen much, if any evidence of corporate-media support for "liberal" causes.

Then you frankly have your head in the sand. The media has supported liberal causes since the days of LBJ. We could be here all day citing examples, from withholding legit stories, to making up illegitimate stories...from editorializing the "news," to "gotcha" interviews with conservative politicians. The list goes on.

Quote:

On the other hand, they all jumped on board the war agenda without as much a single question (both Bush and Obama admins),

What, pray tell, is the "war agenda?"

Quote:
they supported the $17 trillion "bailout" (read heist of the millennium) of the financial sector, and they turned a semi-blind eye to the wave of corporate crime and scandals that characterized the Bush Admin years.[

I don't support the "bailout," though I'd like to know where you got the figure "17 trillion" from. Unfunded obligations, perhaps?

As for the "corporate crime" that "characterized the Bush Administration," that's just silly. It existed, but it didn't characterize the administration. They didn't cause it and cannot be tied to it. Please tell me you're not going to go the jimmacian route of crying "deregulation!." Say it ain't so.

Quote:

One of the worst things that happened to the US media was the media de-regulation in 1996 (Clinton Admin) which in effect reduced the US media to obedient lapdogs and generic trash, where honest journalism became a thing of the past, unless you worked for "boutique" or small independent publications.

AHHHHHH! No! There it is. Anyway...I'd like to know how you believe "deregulation" caused the media to behave it is today. Is it relaxed ownership rules, for example?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #23 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

They didn't present this as fact. They didn't present this as fact. They didn't present this as fact. Stop acting like they presented this as fact. Don't use it as an argument against scientific facts. Because they didn't present this as fact.

They presented this crap as a suggestion to explain the difficulties experienced at the LHC, and you're defending and apologizing because... why? it's crap, for crying out loud!

Quote:
Holger Bech Nielsen, of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto, Japan, suggest that the hypothesized Higgs boson would have such harmful effects that the particle is essentially traveling back through time to stop its own creation.

http://www.scientificcomputing.com/n...on-101909.aspx

Quote:
It must be our prediction that all Higgs producing machines shall have bad luck,” Dr. Nielsen said in an e-mail message. In an unpublished essay, Dr. Nielson said of the theory, “Well, one could even almost say that we have a model for God.” It is their guess, he went on, “that He rather hates Higgs particles, and attempts to avoid them.”

I'll tell you what - you go ahead, keep believing in this crap and venerating the folks that spout it. I'll keep thinking it's crap.
post #24 of 244
When Sammi Jo said that the scientific community has a right to educate people with real facts, you responded with this example of speculation regarding the LHC. What you are doing is wholly disingenuous. If you don't realize that, you really need to reexamine the way you approach these topics. I am not venerating nor even agreeing with the speculation put forth by those scientists. But listen, and listen well:

They did NOT present their speculation as scientific fact!

SO STOP USING THEM AS A COUNTEREXAMPLE ABOUT SCIENTIFIC FACTS! ENOUGH ALREADY!

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #25 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

When Sammi Jo said that the scientific community has a right to educate people with real facts, you responded with this example of speculation regarding the LHC. What you are doing is wholly disingenuous. If you don't realize that, you really need to reexamine the way you approach these topics. I am not venerating nor even agreeing with the speculation put forth by those scientists. But listen, and listen well:

They did NOT present their speculation as scientific fact!

SO STOP USING THEM AS A COUNTEREXAMPLE ABOUT SCIENTIFIC FACTS! ENOUGH ALREADY!

You go right ahead, BR, defend and apologize all you want. A couple of scientists promote a theory about... well, crazy shit, you think they shouldn't be questioned. Got it.

post #26 of 244
Not what I said. Never what I said. You are flat out lying now.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #27 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Not what I said. Never what I said. You are flat out lying now.

"You don't have the credentials to comment", you said. Not that you know my credentials, you just don't want questions, obviously.

Nice backpedal though.
post #28 of 244
Premise: Scientific facts are not to be trusted.

Support: Here's a wacky sounding theory that was never presented as fact.

Misdirection: Completely ignore this ridiculous leap in logic and focus in on something else waving my hands furiously so that the real issue is never addressed.


And I apologize for my vague use of the word comment there. I'd go into detail explaining my poor usage there but you'd just harp in on that and not on the above which is the most important issue here.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #29 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Premise: Scientific facts are not to be trusted.

Support: Here's a wacky sounding theory that was never presented as fact.

Misdirection: Completely ignore this ridiculous leap in logic and focus in on something else waving my hands furiously so that the real issue is never addressed.


And I apologize for my vague use of the word comment there. I'd go into detail explaining my poor usage there but you'd just harp in on that and not on the above which is the most important issue here.

Yeah, when you present my evidence that there are science theories that shouldn't be trusted and make it a blanket statement, strawman evidence, then conclude via reductio ad absurdum, don't be surprised when you find yourself hoist with your own petard.

Can't stand the heat? Don't light the fire.
post #30 of 244
The white house talking about fox is a play action fake. Public option will be the winning touchdown. I think it's good strategy.
post #31 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Why single out Fox? It is a typical liberal tactic. You don't have to address opposition if you delegitmize it. People skeptical of Global Warming, they are deniers. People skeptical of the president, they are racists. News organizations that do not ask softball questions or just read the press releases... they aren't news organizations.

There is just one problem with your argument Trumpt: fact.

Climate change is a fact, proved by tons of evidence beyond any reasonable doubt.
People skeptical of the president are not all racists. And this was said by many respectable people. But some are racists for sure.
Fox News is the only "news" organization that deliberately distorts reality or plainly lies to promote one agenda versus another. They also engage in activity completely off-limits to any serious outlet, such as engaging in protest organization and crowd agitation to oppose the president.

MSNBC is biased also, sure, but everything they report is at least fact-checked or based on the opinion of respected pundits that stake their reputation on what they say. Also they don't agree with the president on everything and will call him out (e.g. not prosecuting the Bush administration for torture or endorsing wiretapping, which are against the law).
post #32 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post

The white house talking about fox is a play action fake. Public option will be the winning touchdown. I think it's good strategy.

Of course it is. The president cannot appear in FNC because that would legitimize it as a real news channel. Obama giving an interview to FNC would be like him giving an interview to the National Inquirer about the next alien invasion of Earth.
post #33 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Yeah, when you present my evidence that there are science theories that shouldn't be trusted and make it a blanket statement, strawman evidence, then conclude via reductio ad absurdum, don't be surprised when you find yourself hoist with your own petard.

Can't stand the heat? Don't light the fire.

Your own statement was a strawman to begin with. Have you no shame?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #34 of 244
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buceta View Post

There is just one problem with your argument Trumpt: fact.

Climate change is a fact, proved by tons of evidence beyond any reasonable doubt.
People skeptical of the president are not all racists. And this was said by many respectable people. But some are racists for sure.

I hate when people start pointing and saying, "Well maybe not all, but some are!!" How does that change the fact that disagreeing is not a racist thing and that people can disagree and not be racists? As far as Climate change, the climate changes, that is a fact. What impact people have on it is still under observation. I doubt that the impact is as much as some think. Especially given that the climate is changing in the opposite direction of where they said it would... But no matter, we can just adjust our theory from global warming, call it climate change and nobody will be the wiser... \

Quote:
Fox News is the only "news" organization that deliberately distorts reality or plainly lies to promote one agenda versus another. They also engage in activity completely off-limits to any serious outlet, such as engaging in protest organization and crowd agitation to oppose the president.

Really, on their NEWS shows they did this? Are you mixing up their commentary shows with news? I don't recall them going into a news segment with "in other news, please ensure to show up at the tea party to day and harass the president and his agenda." Of course I don't watch Fox News so I am sure I missed it. Can you post the YouTube rebroadcast?

Quote:
MSNBC is biased also, sure, but everything they report is at least fact-checked or based on the opinion of respected pundits that stake their reputation on what they say. Also they don't agree with the president on everything and will call him out (e.g. not prosecuting the Bush administration for torture or endorsing wiretapping, which are against the law).

Apparently fact checking will get you slapped by the White House! Be careful!


The White House stopped providing guests to "Fox News Sunday" after host Chris Wallace fact-checked controversial assertions made by Tammy Duckworth, assistant secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs, in August.
Dunn said fact-checking an administration official was "something I've never seen a Sunday show do."
"She criticized 'Fox News Sunday' last week for fact-checking -- fact-checking -- an administration official," Wallace said Sunday. "They didn't say that our fact-checking was wrong. They just said that we had dared to fact-check."
"Let's fact-check Anita Dunn, because last Sunday she said that Fox ignores Republican scandals, and she specifically mentioned the scandal involving Nevada senator John Ensign," Wallace added. "A number of Fox News shows have run stories about Senator Ensign. Anita Dunn's facts were just plain wrong."
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #35 of 244
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post

The white house talking about fox is a play action fake. Public option will be the winning touchdown. I think it's good strategy.

If you are right, then that is a shameful tactic. Enacting a huge new government program by deception under the noses of the people that elected them. How could you be okay with that? Because it happens to be a program you want? What will you do when they enact one you don't want by similar means?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #36 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Your own statement was a strawman to begin with. Have you no shame?

How, exactly, do you reach that conclusion? Do you just not know what that means or is this the only way you can think of to try and save face?
post #37 of 244
Quick recap of what went down:

Sammi Jo: "the scientific community has the right to educate people with real facts"

Taskiss: "I'm gonna bring up a wacky hypothesis and use that as an argument against scientists telling people about facts, ignoring the simple matter that what those scientists espoused about the LHC were never put forth as facts."

Me: "Wow, Taskiss never actually refuted anything Sammi Jo said. Taskiss used an unproven hypothesis, one never put forth as scientific fact, as the basis to say that scientists don't have the right to educate people with real facts."

Taskiss: "I'm going to use my amazing powers to now make the argument about BR instead of how I deftly used fallacious reasoning to counter Sammi's point, got caught, and refuse to admit it. In fact, even after BR responds again pointing this out again, I'm again going to again somehow make the argument about BR and then make some sort of wry comment about his intelligence."

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #38 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Quick recap of what went down:

Sammi Jo: "the scientific community has the right to educate people with real facts"

Taskiss: "I'm gonna bring up a wacky hypothesis and use that as an argument against scientists telling people about facts, ignoring the simple matter that what those scientists espoused about the LHC were never put forth as facts."

How is this a strawman? Other, of course, than your mischaracterization, which is a strawman... but I cut you a lot of slack 'cause it appears you need it.
Quote:
Me: "Wow, Taskiss never actually refuted anything Sammi Jo said. Taskiss used an unproven hypothesis, one never put forth as scientific fact, as the basis to say that scientists don't have the right to educate people with real facts."

Nope, still no strawman, at least on my part. That "scientists don't have the right to educate people with real facts" is, but that's your attempt, not mine.
Quote:
Taskiss: "I'm going to use my amazing powers to now make the argument about BR instead of how I deftly used fallacious reasoning to counter Sammi's point, got caught, and refuse to admit it. In fact, even after BR responds again pointing this out again, I'm again going to again somehow make the argument about BR and then make some sort of wry comment about his intelligence."

No, I'm not seeing a strawman here BR. Just you trying to wiggle out of a hole you've dug yourself.

The theory was postulated by Holger Bech Nielsen and Masao Ninomiya. It's not evidence you like, but damn, man up.

Learn what a scientific theory is. The definition; "Theories are mostly constructed to explain, predict, and to master phenomena", when considered in context with Nielsen's statement: “It must be our prediction that all Higgs producing machines shall have bad luck,” qualifies it as valid evidence.

I don't think its a "real fact" (which is why I used it as evidence), but presented in the way it was, it was promulgated in a manner consistent with all other scientific theories... like the theory of relativity or the theory of evolution. It's just a stupid theory and doesn't pass through any "common sense" filter.
post #39 of 244
Conversation isn't possible with you. You deliberately ignore the facts, distort the truth, and can't handle being called out on it. I'm done with you.

Me: How's the weather?

You: FUCK YOU I HATE BANANAS.

Me: What? I'm confused. Are we having the same conversation? Nope? Thought so.


Christ, anyone else want to chime in on how insane this exchange of words has been between the Taskiss and I?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #40 of 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Conversation isn't possible with you. You deliberately ignore the facts, distort the truth, and can't handle being called out on it. I'm done with you.

Me: How's the weather?

You: FUCK YOU I HATE BANANAS.

Me: What? I'm confused. Are we having the same conversation? Nope? Thought so.


Christ, anyone else want to chime in on how insane this exchange of words has been between the Taskiss and I?

Ah, an argumentum ad populum.

Nicely done! You've reduced your argument to consist entirely of logical fallacy!
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