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Apple introduces MacBook overhaul with LED display, 7-hour battery - Page 2

post #41 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

The entire Acer Timeline series best the new MacBook in battery life, and have a wealth of processor choices.

Maybe but I'd want to see them running side by side fullly loaded. Advertised clock rates for laptops are only useful if the laptop actually runs that fast. Thermal throttling makes it difficult to judge laptops from specs only.

As to processor choices it is really the same deal here, Apple could offer a much faster processor but is then open to a couple of problems. One is that battery life goes to hell. Second is that they are open to poor performance relative to clock rate due to thermal issues. If any thing it looks like Apple is being honest with their specs and performance numbers.
Quote:

I'm not saying that they're quite as 'processor-powerful' as this new MacBook, but they do offer F/W ports, built-in multi-media card readers, removable batteries, aluminum construction (chassis/lid), true 16:9 LED backlit displays at larger sizes, thinner designs, and far less expensive upgrade options.

One of Apples selling points is powerful machines in laptop packages. I suspect Apple choose the hardware used here to maximizes performance for a given battery lifetime. It makes sense for the markets Apple is after with the device.
Quote:

Still, this a very nice MacBook update, better if it was US $700.00

Yes it seems like a good update. However I need to digest the specs some and see the unit first hand ( need to see the display ). So it might be a little rich for what is there. However we can't forget that Holiday shopping is only a few weeks away, Apple may have the intention of advertising an even lower "discounted - sale price" to draw customers into the stores. I'm just trying to tie in some of yesterdays comments from management.
Quote:

Choice Is Always Good.

Yes it is. So far though I'm impressed with the little machine as it appealls to my minimalist but functional side. It could easily take sales from anything left going to AIR.

Actually I'm more concerned that Apple is to stingy with RAM more than anything else. 4GB ought to be a cost effective option.


Dave
post #42 of 121
One of these days Steve Jobs will sit on a rainbow.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #43 of 121
This is a good entry level mac offering, and a better one than yesterday. The build quality, whether you give it due significance or not, was lacking on the previous model, and appears fully addressed with the current.

The lack of firewire on this model is not an issue. Most who buy this won't even have an external harddrive, let alone seriouz accessoriez.

I think they could have gotten really aggressive and priced this at $799, or even $899, but thats hard to say considering its the same price as yesterday, with a few substantial new features: unibody, LED screen, 7 hr battery, the new glass trackpad.

All of that makes it far better value than yesterday, for the same price. Its totally appropriate.
post #44 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Indeed they are, which is all the more perplexing given that all they need to do is GOOGLE the term 'unibody' to find out what it means - \

Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.

And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......

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post #45 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rind View Post

Long time reader but First time to post.

As someone that has been a PC user since 94 I have never used a Mac.
I am happy about these changes , While the price has stayed the same from what I can tell , the Specs have went up.

As far as a reason to buy this over a cheaper Windows 7 laptop.... Easy answer , Its Windows. As someone that has used everything from Win 3.1 to Vista Im not anxious to use windows 7. Although I will eventually since the company I work for is already looking to migrate to 7 eventually.

Cant get the Mac until Tax time 2010 so im stuck impaitently waiting


i've been using WIndows 7 since August, it's OK. MBP's are still pricey but for a desktop an iMac is a much better buy than Dell right now.
post #46 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.

And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......

I was going to mention the term monocoque earlier, but decided not to when a seeminlgy simple term like unibody was misunderstood.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #47 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

The entire Acer Timeline series best the new MacBook in battery life, and have a wealth of processor choices.

I'm not saying that they're quite as 'processor-powerful' as this new MacBook, but they do offer F/W ports, built-in multi-media card readers, removable batteries, aluminum construction (chassis/lid), true 16:9 LED backlit displays at larger sizes, thinner designs, and far less expensive upgrade options.

Still, this a very nice MacBook update, better if it was US $700.00

Choice Is Always Good.

Yes and it beats the crap out of this Macbook with reliable, stable & highly customizable choice of 5 different Windows versions.
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... and Windows Vista...
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... 6x slower!
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Marquiz d' Gabber von Gabberaarde

... and Windows Vista...
... fails on the Moon...
... 6x slower!
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post #48 of 121
I like the new features. I think the main problem here is that many of us thought there would be new features and a price reduction.

Regarding cheap iPods, yes it is financially feasible to mass produce a cheap iPod when it drives revenues in the iTunes store. It's not the same with Laptops, which for the most part ship with most of the software you'd buy from Apple (minus the professional suite, which most folks wouldn't use on a Macbook anyway).

I'm actually happy that Apple is differentiating their product line via price/quality. I'd hate for the quality to go down because they were looking for ways to reduce the price.

Honestly, I wish the Macbooks had 10-12" screens and were the "netbook" of the Apple line. I'd pay the hefty price to have a real Apple Netbook that worked better than my current Acer "Hackintosh".
post #49 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

i've been using WIndows 7 since August, it's OK. MBP's are still pricey but for a desktop an iMac is a much better buy than Dell right now.

As much as I appreciate the 'simplicity' of my Mac computers, they really do come across as little more than costly devices for those that really don't know, nor care to explore the intricacies of actual computing.

Turn It On... Use The Software... Turn It Off - Computing Appliances, If you will.

Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savor every aspect of what can be done with their computers; affording endless customization, an exponentially larger software library, and user/cost-friendly upgrading.

Happily - There's room for both in today's market -
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #50 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabberattack View Post

Yes and it beats the crap out of this Macbook with reliable, stable & highly customizable choice of 5 different Windows versions.

Obviously your statement has been posted out of complete ignorance, so I'll leave it be.

Choice Is Good.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #51 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Somehow people are confusing the terms unibody with machined.

Not really. People are getting bogged down in semantics. When Apple adopted the "unibody" production method, the objective was to build a notebook that would be structurally more rigid (and probably cheaper to build in the long run). The new aluminum notebooks definitely feel more solid in comparison to old aluminum Pro's. Also, Apple made a big deal about showing a video of the production process.

The question about the new MacBooks that first came to my mind was: Is new MacBook just as rigid (or, solid-feeling, for want of a better term) as the aluminum notebooks? Or, even the older polycarb MacBooks?

And, I am certainly curious as to how the new production process differs from the old for the polycarb MacBooks.
post #52 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savior every aspect of what can be done with their computers;

Windows 7 far more advanced? Really? They need a new rewrite like Apple did with OSX.
Obviously you don't know what can be done with every aspect of mac.

I think you mean savor; unless you think the MacBook is a Jesus Laptop.
post #53 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

Not really. People are getting bogged down in semantics. When Apple adopted the "unibody" production method, the objective was to build a notebook that would be structurally more rigid (and probably cheaper to build in the long run). The new aluminum notebooks definitely feel more solid in comparison to old aluminum Pro's. Also, Apple made a big deal about showing a video of the production process.

The question about the new MacBooks that first came to my mind was: Is new MacBook just as rigid (or, solid-feeling, for want of a better term) as the aluminum notebooks? Or, even the older polycarb MacBooks?

And, I am certainly curious as to how the new production process differs from the old for the polycarb MacBooks.

Most Likely:

The new MacBooks are constructed from a single polycarbonate mould, as opposed to the previous multiple pieces fastened/snapped together.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #54 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by obs1970 View Post

Windows 7 far more advanced? Really? They need a new rewrite like Apple did with OSX.
Obviously you don't know what can be done with every aspect of mac.

I think you mean savor; unless you think the MacBook is a Jesus Laptop.

Corrected!

And I'm anything but of that mindset, though some Mac users certainly appear to feel differently.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

One of these days Steve Jobs will sit on a rainbow.

I thought he sits at the end of one already collecting his Pot O' Gold with his Apple TAX!
post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Obviously your statement has been posted out of complete ignorance, so I'll leave it be.

Choice Is Good.

As in choice of anti-virus software, defrag utilities, registry cleaners, etc.?

It's better than Vista, yes. But it's still Windows.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #57 of 121
$129 to replace a battery?
This puts the Apple Tax to SHAME!
post #58 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

$129 to replace a battery?
This puts the Apple Tax to SHAME!

So what, $20 extra over the typical cost for a laptop battery for a battery you have to replace less often, and provides significantly better battery life?

The horror!
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post #59 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

$129 to replace a battery?
This puts the Apple Tax to SHAME!

$129.00
Includes Battery + installation + environmentally responsible disposal

I had to replace my (user replaceable) 2006 MBP battery and it was $129.00 and it included just the battery. The old one still sits in a drawer.
post #60 of 121
they have done their job. getting a base model and ripping it apart and adding a ssd and more memory
post #61 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

it's a nice way of saying cheap plastic

Sure thing, Al. Bulletproof windows and shatterproof glasses are always made from "cheap plastic".

To answer the poster that you snarked:

Unibody just means that the main body is one piece, without a separate openable battery compartment.

The new long-run battery is larger than previous replaceable batteries, and does away with the battery bay of previous MacBooks. Tends to be stiffer, without adding weight, too.
post #62 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

As much as I appreciate the 'simplicity' of my Mac computers, they really do come across as little more than costly devices for those that really don't know, nor care to explore the intricacies of actual computing.

Turn It On... Use The Software... Turn It Off - Computing Appliances, If you will.

Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savor every aspect of what can be done with their computers; affording endless customization, an exponentially larger software library, and user/cost-friendly upgrading.

Happily - There's room for both in today's market -

I've always been interested in the Windows argument that "easy to use" is somehow a drawback. What kind of loon "savors every aspect of what can be done with computer"? What do I want to do beyond run the software of my choosing on an OS that gets out of the way? Moreover, even if I am so inclined I can dig into the Unix roots of OS X via the command line and screw around to my hearts content. Personally, I'm just glad I'm not obliged to.

We're way past the "computer enthusiast" phase of mass computing, just as the inveterate tinkerers of the early days of the automobile were supplanted by many more people that just wanted to get in and drive.

Also, I note that "exponentially larger software library" now is a bullet point in Window's favor. I seem to recall, however, that in the case of the Zune HD vs. Touch, having a lot more software actually doesn't matter because it all hinges on the quality of that software.

Funny how that works.
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post #63 of 121
Unibody means that there's no internal frame, just one solid shell that holds everything together. Previously, you had to have an internal aluminum/magnesium frame for structural strength, and bonded to that aluminum or polycarbonate plating and shell. This was the case for the old white Macbook. If Apple claims unibody enclosure, it means that there's no need for an internal frame. What you see on the outside is what holds everything together--or perhaps it's a thin metal unibody with plastic moulded over it, but still no separate internal frame as it was previously.
post #64 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Would love to recommend this to my friends who don't have a Mac but Apples insistence on ripping off anyone outside of the US is just not on, simply put the, attitude seems to be if you aren't am American you can bend over and take it like a bitch.

I won't recommend it on principal.

Out of curiousity, do you really think that some accountant at Apple is sitting there thinking, "I know, let's screw our non-American customers and charge them more just for the fun of it."

Or could it have something to do with your particular country's import fees/tariffs/taxes and the cost of doing business there (in-country transportation, warehouses, employees, etc)? Or that maybe it's a lot cheaper to ship the product across the Pacific to the US west coast than to the other side of the world?

I sympathize that you have to pay more for some of your toys (and it's not just Apple toys, is it?), but to hold a grudge thinking it's from some pro-American bias by Apple is a bit of a stretch, I think.
post #65 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

As much as I appreciate the 'simplicity' of my Mac computers, they really do come across as little more than costly devices for those that really don't know, nor care to explore the intricacies of actual computing.

Turn It On... Use The Software... Turn It Off - Computing Appliances, If you will.

Windows 7 is a far more advanced/robust operating system for users who savor every aspect of what can be done with their computers; affording endless customization, an exponentially larger software library, and user/cost-friendly upgrading.

Happily - There's room for both in today's market -

While I disagree with you on the relative simplicity of OSX, you just have to dig a little deeper since the complexity is just hidden away from the average user that wouldn't know how to properly handle it, one could argue that the sports car industry has a similar problem:

Automatic transmissions are getting to the point where they shift faster and shift at a more optimal point than a driver is capable of with a manual transmission. Enthusiasts are resisting this change as manual transmissions are more fun and better reflect a drivers skill. However, as technology advances, driving with a manual transmission will simply mean that you are driving slower. I would be really careful about how you apply these complexity as an advantage arguments.
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post #66 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by frdmfghtr View Post

My concern with the built-in, non-user replaceable battery in the polycarbonate MacBook doesn't concern the battery...it concerns the hard drive.

In my old MacBook, I could swap the hard drive in five minutes, as it went in and out through the battery port; same with adding memory. With no removable battery, is replacing the hard drive and memory going to be a simple matter of removing the bottom enclosure?

Yes, hard drive & memory are still easily accessible. Believe it or not the DVD drive on the unibodies is a pain to replace. Fixed it somewhat when they went from PPC but now it is a pain again.

Honestly though, I'll take that any day over the Dell solution of having big bulky business laptops just so it's easy to swap parts.
post #67 of 121
I was hoping apple might lower the plastic macbook even further from $999, but I think steve believes $999 is the "magic" price point. Does anyone know where I should/could buy the previous generation plastic macbook?
post #68 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post

$129.00
Includes Battery + installation + environmentally responsible disposal

I had to replace my (user replaceable) 2006 MBP battery and it was $129.00 and it included just the battery. The old one still sits in a drawer.

But this is 13% of the cost of the MacBook itself!
post #69 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

But this is 13% of the cost of the MacBook itself!

The batteries on the older MB and MBPs are also that price. But you had the convenience of them being user replaceable. Now you have to take the newer ones in. The trade off being that the batteries have gotten more complex and better.... Plus if you do take them in, you (and Apple) can guaranteed to have them disposed of properly.....assuming that sort of thing is important to you.

Or would you just rather them use the older battery tech? Or randomly raise the price of the MB so the battery is not so much of a percentage of cost?
post #70 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Out of curiousity, do you really think that some accountant at Apple is sitting there thinking, "I know, let's screw our non-American customers and charge them more just for the fun of it."

Or could it have something to do with your particular country's import fees/tariffs/taxes and the cost of doing business there (in-country transportation, warehouses, employees, etc)? Or that maybe it's a lot cheaper to ship the product across the Pacific to the US west coast than to the other side of the world?

I sympathize that you have to pay more for some of your toys (and it's not just Apple toys, is it?), but to hold a grudge thinking it's from some pro-American bias by Apple is a bit of a stretch, I think.

The problem with your point is that certain items, take the new iMacs for example do not have the price difference or at least not nearly as pronounced, considering the machines are made in China and most likely shipped from there too..... No I do not see the reason to charge the British consumer so much more.
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post #71 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabberattack View Post

Yes and it beats the crap out of this Macbook with reliable, stable & highly customizable choice of 5 different Windows versions.

Really, days after Apple admits that their OS will destroy your entire home folder in certain instances, you want to talk about Windows reliability? I've been running (prerelease) Windows 7 on various machines for the better part of the last year with zero issues. Snow leopard, on the other hand has caused me countless problems and ate my friend's account. I say this only to point out that both OSs have their issues and strengths these days.
post #72 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

This is a good entry level mac offering, and a better one than yesterday. The build quality, whether you give it due significance or not, was lacking on the previous model, and appears fully addressed with the current.

The lack of firewire on this model is not an issue. Most who buy this won't even have an external harddrive, let alone seriouz accessoriez.

I think they could have gotten really aggressive and priced this at $799, or even $899, but thats hard to say considering its the same price as yesterday, with a few substantial new features: unibody, LED screen, 7 hr battery, the new glass trackpad.

All of that makes it far better value than yesterday, for the same price. Its totally appropriate.

Apple probably does not price it cheaper than $999 is because they don't have to. If they are selling tons of Macs and MacBooks at their current prices then why lower the price? Just look at yesterday's news on how well Apple is doing -- no reason to reduce the price even as much as I wish it would be priced at $799 or $899 as well.

I think this is a much better MacBook today than yesterday but i'm very price conscious as well and I think any buyer that looks at the MacBooks (not Pro) are already seriously considering nebooks or slim laptops.

So it stands, that Apple needs to really push why the Mac is better than Windows outside of just saying it doesn't have Viruses. I have to explain all the time about iPhoto, iMovie, and GarageBand. Those are really cool apps and the ease of use alone can be very convincing when you are not just starring into Specs and Price.
post #73 of 121
To put too fine a point on it: ;-)
Unibody - yes, monocoque - no. Cool shrink might cause the polycarbonate skin to stress slightly, but not much -- certainly not enough to qualify as a stressed skin, which is integral to the monocoque concept.
It all depends on how the 'skin' functions. Much more likely the "skin" is more of a shell than a skin and that shell depends more on the overall nature of the material (polycarbonate) than upon internal tension for it's rigidity. But of course its possible to design structures that overlap the two concepts to some extent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.

And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......
post #74 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Really, days after Apple admits that their OS will destroy your entire home folder in certain instances, you want to talk about Windows reliability? I've been running (prerelease) Windows 7 on various machines for the better part of the last year with zero issues. Snow leopard, on the other hand has caused me countless problems and ate my friend's account. I say this only to point out that both OSs have their issues and strengths these days.

Certain *scattered* instances (plus it can be avoided in the first place and restored in the second place.)
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Dare I say Microsoft, Roz Ho, Danger, Sidekick, complete loss of data?
post #75 of 121
Quote:
Let's not get started on the £650 Mac Mini.

Is it really? *Goes looking...at website.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #76 of 121
Wow. It really is. No quad core. Cheap integrated crappics. £650. At least stick an i5 in there...?

Apple yer gotta be kiddin'... *Shakes head.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #77 of 121
True, Dave.
Just want to point out that the extrusion process is rather important though, as it significantly increases the rigidity and stiffness of the aluminum plate before milling, making the Aluminum unibody macs uniquely sturdy (sounds like a "Extenz" commercial!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The Aluminum unibody is not an extruded net shape part. It is a structure that is milled out of an aluminum plate. Those plates can come from an extrusion process but they really don't have to. Where ever the material comes from it is milled to dimension and has the holes for the speaker grill laser drilled. The case finish comes from mechanical brushing of the surface.

Dave
post #78 of 121
Dude, this is awesome. My Macbook's screen got busted (an accident) and if it's not repairable, the Insurance will pay for a new one [: Perfect. Timing. *is feeling lucky*
post #79 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Actually, according to Wikipedia, it looks like these current macs can actually be seen as Monocoque in construction (and as unibody) - in which the external skin (which IS the chassis in these notebooks) contributes to overall structural rigidity and lessens or removes the need for any internal trusses.

And it sounds cool too - kinda Euro and sexy: Monocoque Macs.......

In the summer of 1969 I flew a Monocoque-design Beechcraft Musketeer Sport airplane ("Fighter plane design" they called it) through power lines over the midwest USA. Stopped the prop, bent the nosegear sideways, shoved the exhaust stacks back 3 inches. Loose wire ends popped out the side window, showering us in glass. Another ripped an 8-inch gash in the top of the left wing.

We got the engine restarted at about 25 feet above ground, flew it back to an airport 80 miles away, and landed safely. The FAA accident investigator told us if it had been any other brand of light aircraft, we'd have been decorating the Kansas wheat. Monocoque structural engineering saved my life.

I expect I could hold a new polycarbonate (the stuff they use to make F22 Raptor canopies, BTW) MacBook in front of me and take a direct hit from a subway train without so much as a rumple in my corduroys. Maybe a hangnail where my fingers gripped the edge.
post #80 of 121
It makes no sense. The main reason I want Firewire is to connect Macs to troubleshoot them or to bring over data when buying a new Mac.


Ethernet sucks at bringing over data from another Mac and diagnosing problems. Firewire treats another Mac as a slave drive to the master drive. When signed in as root, it overrides any permissions on the slave drive. So, if I want to clone a drive from one to another, permissions are not an issue. Further, you can delete and /or replace any file on an effected Mac, which is great for troubleshooting. These things can't be done with Ethernet because Ethernet treats another Mac as a networked computer subject to permissions.

Up until recently, I could confidently grab my Mac and a Firewire cable and fix and feel assured I can fix any problem on another person's Mac. I have fixed many friend and family members Macs this way. Taking the Firewire away makes it much harder for people to fix troubled Macs without having to resort to a fresh install.

Firewire across the board was something that truly make being a Mac user a pleasure. Big mistake on Apple's par tin my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

No Firewire. Makes sense. If you want Firewire, get the 13.3" Pro for $200 more. No back-lit keyboard, either.
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