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Apple unveils new iMacs with 21.5 and 27-inch displays - Page 6

post #201 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

That same DEG report that you're reading from also indicated that the YTD Blu-ray sales are up 83% over last year. This far outpaces the 20 percent growth for digital distribution.

Again, percentage increases don't tell you much unless you account for what they're increasing from. The fact is that digital already pulls in way more money than BluRay.

Quote:
Don't believe everything you read in the tech press. Most of the writers are computer-centric and obsessed with streaming/online media. They will spin every little bit of news to create the impression that downloading and streaming have already taken over the home video market and that Blu-ray is doomed -- no matter what the market reality otherwise says. The fact that Blu-ray's growing at 4X the rate of digital distribution is something you'll never see many of them admit to.

That seems like a very convoluted and somewhat conspiratorial way to account for what's being reported. An easier way to explain it is that the tech press is aware of the misleading nature of talking about rates of increase that doesn't acknowledge absolute numbers.

Quote:
Blu-ray's doing fine. Just because the adoption rate has been slightly slower than it was for the DVD (which just happened to be the most successful consumer electronics launch in history), doesn't mean that Blu-ray is dead in the water. This holiday season will see big markdowns on Blu-ray players, and that will likely spur sales like they did last year. Also, several of the big blockbuster releases will also get released over the next couple of months. Those too will spur Blu-ray sales. And it doesn't hurt that HDTV prices continue to tumble, and unit sales have actually held steady.

Of course it's doing "fine", the question is what's going to happen in the near future.

Quote:
What numbers keep falling? Certainly not Blu-ray. Disc sales have increased. Player sales have increased. For many new releases, Blu-ray's market share already exceeds 20%.

The only numbers that have fallen have been for DVDs. And that's largely because the DVD format no longer has a huge backlog of eagerly anticipated catalog titles waiting to be released. It's pretty much new releases that now drive the DVD market, and sales for new titles have not slid nearly as much as they have for older titles. Basically, most of the older titles that people want on DVD have already come out, and the studios have drastically cut back on the special collector's editions on DVD. Those bonus features are now going to the Blu-ray versions.

Look at what you wrote-- you start by citing Blu-Ray's increasing percentage of optical disc market share as evidence of the format's success, then follow up by dismissing the slump in the DVD market as inevitable. So...... Blu-Ray gets a bigger percentage of a decreasing market.
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post #202 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiffydave View Post

I'm looking to pull the trigger on a 27" w/ a QuadCore processor. The kids will be getting my current 2.4 ghz iMac 24".

Lucky kids!
Quote:

Is the i7 worth the $200 upgrade on the i5? I'm hoping for speed gains in video encoding mostly, but general speed gains are nice as well.

Yes very well worth it! Especially for Video Encoding, but please feel free to check around on the net for the latest benchmarks. Just be careful with the numbers though. For example some early i5 numbers appeared to be really bad but that was later chased down to BIOS problems. Given the right software and the opportunity to Turbo Boost both the i5 & I7 processors can be real speed demons. I7 however can run some video codecs very fast if they are parallel optimized codecs and the software is wrtten properly. A lot of IRS but i7 works very well.
Quote:

Thanks!

This update is impressive in some aspects but it unfortunately didn't address the issue I have with the lack of internal storage. In a way I kinda wish the had provided dual Ethernet ports so that one could provide a dedicated Drobo connection.

At the rate things are going it could be several months, maybe even a year before I even consider an iMac. Hopefully they will get some minor tweaks and 35nm processors by then.


Dave
post #203 of 846
Just out of curiosity, for the people wondering why no HDMI on the new iMacs:

HDMI on the average desktop PC is HDMI out. Why would you put HDMI out on an all-in-one?
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #204 of 846
I'm really happy to see desktop processors coming to the 27" iMac. Finally the enormous gap between iMac and Mac Pro is closing. I'm also happy to see LED backlighting arrive.

Pricing is rather disappointing given that the Core i5 plus 4850 likely costs Apple less than the mobile Core 2 Duo plus 4670. It looks like a blatant $300 cash grab to me.

Display manufacturers have moved to 16:9 so Apple really had no choice there, but it's disappointing to keep losing vertical screen real estate.

I'll reserve judgement on the glossiness of the new display until I've tried it out at the Apple Store, but if it's like the last two versions I won't be able to use it.
post #205 of 846
Core i7 I like, i5 I like, Quad I like, 27 inches I like... and these things are beautiful!

But... the 4850 is, like, not great - especially on a screen that size - it's a bit of a system choker to be completely honest.

I am very impressed Apple upped the hardware so significantly though. Interesting.

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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post #206 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/10/...bution_rising/



Guys if you provide the link or links to backup your statement it prevents the "no it isn't, yes it is" responses.

That article, small that it is, doesn't say anything.

What they mean by B-R not taking up the slack is not that B-R sales aren't rising quickly, but that they are still so small when compared to the much older format that they didn't slow the drop by much.

This is like what we've read over the years about iTunes not stopping the drop in music sales. By this interpretation, iTunes sales weren't going anywhere, even though we know the were. Now, they're 25% of ALL music sales.

The same thing is true for B-R. Sales are moving up as many reports over the year have shown. But the base numbers are still too small to affect total movie disk sales.

It's also like Apple's computer sales vs the entire industry. The industry want up 2.5% this quarter, while Apple went up 17%.

So we can say that the PC industries sales were lackluster, and Apple's sales didn't change that.

Again, by this interpretation, Apple didn't see a growth in sales, when we all know that they had good growth.

Be careful of what's being read. Sometimes an article assumes the reader has other information, and when they don't, misinterpretation is common.

This is a little older, but it's typical of articles about B-R this year:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/blu-ray-...news-4250.html
post #207 of 846
tech Q: once you get 1080p into the new 27" 2560 iMac how will it look at full screen? Interpolated? What?

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post #208 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Read the fine print. The 27" model supports DisplayPort input.

Nice! Perfect except maybe the need for external speakers. No Blu-Ray? Just add PS3
post #209 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

This update is impressive in some aspects but it unfortunately didn't address the issue I have with the lack of internal storage. In a way I kinda wish the had provided dual Ethernet ports so that one could provide a dedicated Drobo connection.

They needed all that space for cooling the desktop class processor.

Storage in the iMac will always disappoint people who need more than the basic amount. I have 5 external hard drive cases on my desk beside my mini.
post #210 of 846
Considering all the outcry when Apple switched over to TN LCD panels on the last generation 20" iMacs, I'm surprised that nobody's mentioning the return of IPS panels to the entire iMac lineup. That's a huge improvement over the visibly degraded image quality that those 20" TN panels displayed.

For all the misinformation getting passed around about Blu-ray, personally I don't see the big fuss. Aside from YouTube vids and occasional movie previews, I don't sit at my computer to watch TV and other programs. And that's consistent with a Ball State study from earlier this year, which found that SURPRISE SURPRISE ... the vast majority of TV programs are viewed on TVs. Online video only constituted a fraction of the total viewing time (less than 1%).

http://www.researchexcellence.com/vcmstudy.php

When I want to watch HD programming, I'd much rather lounge on my sofa and watch a big screen HDTV. I already have a Blu-ray player, and I already have an iMac. I use the iMac as a wireless media server for my home theater setup, not as a primary source for video viewing.
post #211 of 846
That's the beauty of statistics. Without the proper context the numbers can be "tortured" to "say" anything.

Blu-ray sales are doing well but when compared to stout competition like On Demand, IPTV, iTunes, Vudu, Netflix and more it's an upstream swim for dominance.

Frankly I don't know why we're centering a thread about new iMacs around Blu-ray. This thread is a microcosm the media pie. There are a few "vocal" propononets of Blu-ray that take over every thread with complaints. The reality is that lack of Blu-ray hasn't hurt Mac sales one iota.

Apple delivered here with the iMacs. They proved many of us wrong with regard to Mobile vs Desktop chips and cooling. They have made another step forward by reducing hazardous materials by going all LED on the display and they've increased resolution on the high end iMac and removed the need for a low end Mac Pro (somewhat)

Yet we're talking about the lack of a format that hasn't shown much ability to take the market by storm despite it's main competitor closing up shop almost a year ago.

These iMacs are winners to me.
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post #212 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Yes, I want Blue Ray so that 1) the hardware will be riddled with DRM negatively effecting performance of the whole system even when not using Blue Ray, 2) I have to pay more to burn disks, 3) I can't rip disks, 4) backward Blue Ray compatibility becomes an issue in the future, and 5) I can pay more for less.

The reality is the little bit of benefit Blue Ray has is far over ridden by the draw backs. Sony, the same one that likes to put hidden DRM on systems without permission, designed the system. What more do I need to say. If you want Blue Ray, buy a third party player which won't hamper over all performance.

B-R DRM has nothing to do with anything else. The DRM in certain iTunes products also have nothing to do with anything else.

I wish people would stop spouting this junk about DRM.

Yes, we don't like it, but it doesn't do anything to your computer.
post #213 of 846
i might be a computer illiterate...but does the graphic card kick in for the smoothness and quality of the movies/outside source games? Also, with the new 27' dual core imac, do you guys think ill be able to run some new games on it with decent performance? like diablo III...whenever it might come out. Or should i aim for the i5 imac just to be safe, cuz it has a better graphic card too
post #214 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Sorry about that - I was on my iPhone at lunch and didn't have the time. Here you go:

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/blu-ray-...ard-times/7098

One of the few things we agree on.
post #215 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Seriously! They add desktop-class CPUs with higher TDPs and he complains that its not as thin as he wanted. Of course, if they made it thinner hed be complaining that they stuck with notebook-class CPUs. I guess he thinks Apple can perform magic tricks and summon TARDIS technology at will.

Hey, I have a Tardis!

But all that goes in there are pencils and pens.

And the furthest it's even traveled was to the floor and back.
post #216 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

Any display that my parakeet keeps on pecking at is one that's to reflective to see the beautiful LED screen properly.

I couldn't agree more and thanks for the imagery. You had me laughing all through lunch.
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post #217 of 846
Trying to compare different Mac options (in the UK):

1) Mac Mini

Base: £649, Magic Mouse £55, Wired KB £28, iWork £54 -> £786 (+ monitor (£200) TN)
2.53GHz, 320GB, 4GB, 9400M

2) iMac

Base 21.5": £949 (includes Mouse, Keyboard), iWork £54 -> £1003 (includes monitor IPS)
3.06GHz, 500GB, 4GB, 9400M

3) MacBook

Base: £799 (includes trackpad, keyboard), iWork £54 -> £853
2.26GHz, 250GB, 2GB (£70 upgrade to 4GB), 9400M
Has 1280x800 13.3" monitor, no match for 21.5" 1920x1080 display.
But has 7 hour battery life.
If you need monitor - add £200 + £20 (DP->DVI). £1143 in total.

4) 13.3" MBP oddly has smaller HD than base MacBook. About £200 more than MacBook overall.

So yeah, it's really hard to build a Mac system for under £1000. The Mac Mini is great if you can share/reuse existing components, but the £649 price is appalling (didn't consider the £499 option, that's £150 less (£850) for 2.26GHz, 2GB, 160GB. The Mac Mini used to be vastly cheaper over here, it's a boutique computer at these prices. :-(

But the Mac Mini 21.5" looks like a reasonable deal, once you can accept the £1000 price tag. The monitor is decent. The CPU is faster so you can delay replacement another year beyond the other options. None of the options are suitable for games (not an issue for me).

Might be worth waiting for iWork '10 and maybe a mid-cycle update for Core i3/i5 throughout product line and/or BluRay option. Only if you don't absolutely need a new computer though.
post #218 of 846

That doesn't mean much. People who are getting streaming aren't getting the same IQ.

B-R is growing pretty quickly.
post #219 of 846
Not having Blu-ray in the iMac is not that big of a deal, but not having it as an option for the Mini is an omission. Many people do have blu-ray... I won't buy a movie that isn't Blu-ray because the quality of the picture AND the sound are so far superior to anything that can be streamed/downloaded or DVD, it isn't even funny.

The iMac is a desktop machine and 27" isn't really big enough to notice the diff between DVD and blu-ray, but 42" and above is noticeable... HDTV sales are doing very well and Blu-ray will sell very well beside DVD. Having BR in the mini would be the final step to becoming a full-functioning home theater computer.

Still the best Blu-ray player is the PS3 because it can play games, blu-ray movies, videos, pictures, and music... it is essentially the center of my home theater.

I watch many of my video podcasts on it, blu-ray movies, music, DVD, and gaming. I paid 600 for mine and I have got my money's worth out of it.

And only 300 bucks, now as well... it's a better value that any home theater PC with blu-ray.
post #220 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Your MacBook Pro already has a rechargeable battery.

You should get an EEG to make sure you have brain function. It might be time to pull the cord on you.

He's an AI masochist. Increased beatings only spur his post count.

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post #221 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

You could always get a wired keyboard with numeric key pad and normal position of arrow keys as a no cost option with each iMac.

I've used the Logitech MX series wireless KB and Mouse for years now. As much as I love Apple, I haven't liked their external KB's since the modular version died years ago.
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post #222 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And no matte and still ugly black border- puke.
I now have to wait 6 more months.

LOL...no matte option...because matte sucks, get over it! The aluminum iMac is far better looking than the old white models.

And BluRay is still too expensive for computer use when external hard drives are better for backups anyway. No one wants to watch a BluRay movie on their computer. People don't even watch DVD's on their computer.

Now that mouse looks awesome...finally no more scroll ball to get dirty.
post #223 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Well, just played around with the BTO for the 27" iMac on Apple's site. Let's see what the best options add up to along with reasonable (but not all) accessories...

- iMac 27"
- Core i7 quad core 2.8GHz
- 16 GB 1066MHz DDR3 memory (still no 1333 yet???)
- 2TB HD
- Magic Mouse
- Wireless Keyboard
- Remote
- iWork '09
- One to One
- AppleCare

Grand total: $4,185.00

Best be saving up for awhile!

Ok, let's be realistic.

The memory upgrade is costing most of that extra bucks.

You don't have to buy memory at Apple. You can get it much cheaper at OWC, and others. A 2 TB internal drive is also bigger than most people need, and it's better to buy an external for backups anyway, again much cheaper.
post #224 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonyfork View Post

What's with all of the Palm Pre ads on AppleInsider? I count 3 separate ones on this page alone.

Use Click for Flash, as I do, and you won't see them.
post #225 of 846
It doesn't stand a chance to go mainstream in the living room when you can get 1080p from Dish or Direct TV.

In this economy, blue jeans before blu-ray, but it still has a future as an archival media.
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post #226 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadIvan View Post

If history repeats itself, you are certainly correct. Image quality was superior on Beta, VHS was more convenient because of longer playing time on the tapes. Which one won? Assuming anyone on this thread is old enough to remember the first video format war.

I remember it well.

But it doesn't apply here. B-R sales are galloping along. The fact that the B-R HD-DVD war ended as the recession begun has made it harder for people to see it, but B-R sales are almost double from a year ago, with no evidence that it's slowing down. I've even seen a player advertised for $50, and titles are dropping to DVD pricing.
post #227 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Breathless stories of big gains for Blu-Ray are meaningless unless they account for a baseline. Since Blu-Ray was starting from pretty much nothing as of recently, it's not that impressive to cite percentage gains in shipments.

Meanwhile, the trend lines are clear: streaming and downloads are growing rapidly, while optical media are stagnant. Blu-Rays gains sound impressive until you note that the $500 million in Blu-Ray sales are a drop in the bucket compared to the overall home video market, with even direct view and downloads taking in $1.4 billion.

You're wrong. It's meaningful. As meaningful at iTunes sales the first few years.

I suppose you also said that those big gains weren't important because the baseline was small?
post #228 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

iTunes is scrapping the bottom of the barrel as far as HD is concerned. I've sen better looking DVDs then some of that crap. Look at any Criterion DVD.

iTunes 720p is still much better than Comcast's 1080i (which is the true bottom of the barrel), and I'm paying them monthly for their crap.

I'd love 1080p from iTunes, but the vast majority of people wouldn't have the bandwidth to make that practical.
post #229 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post

Not having Blu-ray in the iMac is not that big of a deal, but not having it as an option for the Mini is an omission. [,,,] Having BR in the mini would be the final step to becoming a full-functioning home theater computer.

They have mini-DVI and mini-DisplayPort on the Mini, but no HDMI. It seems clear that Apple isnt focusing the Mac mini on the living room. That is what the AppleTV was designed for.
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post #230 of 846
I really think blu-ray would have been a great additon, although i7sies will do me
post #231 of 846
For one instant, near the beginning, they flash an Imac with duel DVD sized slots on the right side. Its during a pan from that side. Don't know how to grab just a frame.
post #232 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Gotta love Amazon Prime eh?

Yes, if you buy enough to give them the $79 up front to become a Prime member.

Then the free, same day service in certain areas, for SOME of their stuff SEEMS to be a good deal.

But it isn't.
post #233 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Again, percentage increases don't tell you much unless you account for what they're increasing from. The fact is that digital already pulls in way more money than BluRay.



That seems like a very convoluted and somewhat conspiratorial way to account for what's being reported. An easier way to explain it is that the tech press is aware of the misleading nature of talking about rates of increase that doesn't acknowledge absolute numbers.



Of course it's doing "fine", the question is what's going to happen in the near future.



Look at what you wrote-- you start by citing Blu-Ray's increasing percentage of optical disc market share as evidence of the format's success, then follow up by dismissing the slump in the DVD market as inevitable. So...... Blu-Ray gets a bigger percentage of a decreasing market.

Just like the unsuccessful iTunes music store, right?

And the truth is that you don't know where downloading movies is going either, it could be just as ephemeral as what you think B-R will be.
post #234 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

For one instant, near the beginning, they flash an Imac with duel DVD sized slots on the right side. Its during a pan from that side. Don't know how to grab just a frame.

There is an SD card slot and DVD drive slot on the right side.
post #235 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

for an extra $300 you get better video and a better HD. the price difference is small enough that a lot of people would just get both if there were 3 options instead of 2.

i just checked the Dell site and the prices are close enough to make me buy an iMac instead of a Dell if i was in the market for one now. even dell is using laptop CPU's on a lot of their models now.

They also make the mac pro look like a sick joke pay $1000 more to get a weaker video card, less ram and a smaller HD.
post #236 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Just like the unsuccessful iTunes music store, right?

And the truth is that you don't know where downloading movies is going either, it could be just as ephemeral as what you think B-R will be.

Given everything we can see about every other medium I don't think betting against downloads or streaming is a great idea.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #237 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That doesn't mean much. People who are getting streaming aren't getting the same IQ.

B-R is growing pretty quickly.

And that doesn't mean anything at all. Picture quality is irrelevant to market share; if it weren't we could somehow figure that CDs are doing OK.

As has been mentioned, growth doesn't tell us much when the absolute numbers are so small. Blu-Ray could continue to make respectable units gains for the next several years and still not amount to much in the big picture.
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post #238 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

That's the beauty of statistics. Without the proper context the numbers can be "tortured" to "say" anything.

Blu-ray sales are doing well but when compared to stout competition like On Demand, IPTV, iTunes, Vudu, Netflix and more it's an upstream swim for dominance.

Frankly I don't know why we're centering a thread about new iMacs around Blu-ray. This thread is a microcosm the media pie. There are a few "vocal" propononets of Blu-ray that take over every thread with complaints. The reality is that lack of Blu-ray hasn't hurt Mac sales one iota.

Apple delivered here with the iMacs. They proved many of us wrong with regard to Mobile vs Desktop chips and cooling. They have made another step forward by reducing hazardous materials by going all LED on the display and they've increased resolution on the high end iMac and removed the need for a low end Mac Pro (somewhat)

Yet we're talking about the lack of a format that hasn't shown much ability to take the market by storm despite it's main competitor closing up shop almost a year ago.

These iMacs are winners to me.

There are really only two legit complaints left about the iMac line, and people aren't happy about that, they want to complain.

One is, for that small few who don't understand how to use a glossy screen, the glass.

Two is the lack of internal B-R.

While some may also complain they're not getting a cheaper model, well, they're hopeless to begin with.

These afe vastly better models than what they're replacing, and the prices are slso pretty good for what people are getting.

I certainly didn't expect LED backlighting AND an IPS screen on the low price models.

The whole thing is a step up.

Now that they can take 16 GB with four slots, allowing 8 GB for less money as well, people are complaining about Apple's price for memory.

While I wasn't happy about the idea of a 16:9 screen, and still am not happy about the loss of resolution on the smaller model, the bigger screens will help for the 27", and the even higher rez on that model is an unexpected bonus, so my objections have subsided for the top, more pro models.

It's not like that pro photo and publishing would be done on the 21.5, so that's not really an issue.

Well, I guess the complaints are to be expected. There are always those who want to find the bad in everything.
post #239 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Now that mouse looks awesome...finally no more scroll ball to get dirty.

You talking about the MaxiMouse? (See the mouse thread)
post #240 of 846
How faster should it be, compared to 3.06Ghz 2008 iMac ?
Especially with CS4 ?
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