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Apple unveils new iMacs with 21.5 and 27-inch displays - Page 7

post #241 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're wrong. It's meaningful. As meaningful at iTunes sales the first few years.

I suppose you also said that those big gains weren't important because the baseline was small?

The success of one format has no bearing on another, else one's success would guarantee success for all.

At any rate, you're using a digital download service, which has thrived right along with the general trend toward online digital media for everything, as an example of how a physical media format will surely prevail, which I don't think makes much sense.
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post #242 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Given everything we can see about every other medium I don't think betting against downloads or streaming is a great idea.

I'm just saying that betting against B-D isn't a good idea either.

All my friends have B-D players for their wide screens, but few download because the quality is so poor.

It will take more than a few years before that changes.

People need at least a 10 Mb/s connection before 1080p at no significant extra compression over a disk can be transmitted. That will be some time away.
post #243 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And no matte and still ugly black border- puke.
I now have to wait 6 more months.

you're not getting a matte screen on an imac, either buy a mac pro or get a second monitor for one of these imacs and stfu.

if you think it's ugly, find yourself a better looking windows pc in some other dimension and save your cash
post #244 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And that doesn't mean anything at all. Picture quality is irrelevant to market share; if it weren't we could somehow figure that CDs are doing OK.

As has been mentioned, growth doesn't tell us much when the absolute numbers are so small. Blu-Ray could continue to make respectable units gains for the next several years and still not amount to much in the big picture.

You're wrong about that. People don't treat video the way they do audio. I know plenty of people who are happy about MP3 and AAC, but insist on screens bigger than 50" with B-R.
post #245 of 846
The 4800 series?

With the release of the 5800 series out this just screams we can't put a better card in the iMac without first offering a BTO for the 5800 in the Mac Pro.

The 5800s produce less heat and should be a BTO already in the Apple store for the Mac Pros.
post #246 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

you're not getting a matte screen on an imac, either buy a mac pro or get a second monitor for one of these imacs and stfu.

if you think it's ugly, find yourself a better looking windows pc in some other dimension and save your cash

Actually it's begiining to grow on me. Now that I see it has LED and an I7 I'll have to visit it in person. Hmmmmm.
post #247 of 846
Quote:
"Oh! what a superior man," said Candide below his breath. "What a great genius is this Pococurante! Nothing can please him."

-Voltaire

Evidently, Pococurante was a Mac user. What a pack of whiners you people have become. You guys are furious because Apple doesn't deliver on AI's over-promising.
post #248 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

The glossy screen on my iPod touch drives me crazy. I can't imagine having to deal with 27" of gloss.

I been dealing with the 24" LED Cinema Display for 5 months and I got a window behind me and I'm good.
post #249 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The success of one format has no bearing on another, else one's success would guarantee success for all.

At any rate, you're using a digital download service, which has thrived right along with the general trend toward online digital media for everything, as an example of how a physical media format will surely prevail, which I don't think makes much sense.

Of course it has bearing. One waxes, and one wanes.

Right now, B-R sales are making a tremendous increase, with no sigh that it will slow down appreciably for a while. As cheaper players continue to come out, that will only increase more. It's also been shown that most PS3 owners also watch movies on them, and there are a lot of them out there. Most movie prices have dropped to about the price of a DVD release, or just a bit higher, and store prices are often the same, or they're not carrying the DVD.

I think that B-R has at least five years of growth. That's a long time for the computer industry.

To predict its demise now is way premature.
post #250 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm just saying that betting against B-D isn't a good idea either.

All my friends have B-D players for their wide screens, but few download because the quality is so poor.

It will take more than a few years before that changes.

People need at least a 10 Mb/s connection before 1080p at no significant extra compression over a disk can be transmitted. That will be some time away.

And for a certain segment of the viewing population PQ wins out over convenience, for sure. For that matter, it wins out for me-- I don't much care for the quality of dl video. OTOH, I find myself doing a lot of casual movie viewing on Netflix Watch It Now-- if the catalogue were deeper, I would probably watch the majority of my movies that way, and reserve the big screen high quality treatment for specific films that I know to be visually compelling.

But I question how large this segment is, particularly when you consider the fact that of the movies released each year, only a handful are image intensive. Most are the kind of romantic comedies and dramas that don't require much in the way of PQ to work.

I guess the question is, how good is good enough? In the case of audio, we discovered that the answer was "not that good, actually." My suspicion is is that, even at the current semi-mediocre reproduction levels, video downloads are good enough.

I also suspect that this is a generational thing, with older, more affluent consumers opting for big screens and blu-ray, with younger people being perfectly content with downloads and laptops.
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post #251 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Just out of curiosity, for the people wondering why no HDMI on the new iMacs:

HDMI on the average desktop PC is HDMI out. Why would you put HDMI out on an all-in-one?

Um...because there are more HDMI displays than DP displays?

I wouldn't care at all if Apple did audio over DP.

My current setup is a mini connected to a 1080p 32" HDTV in my office.

I could easily see dual monitor setup of 27" iMac for work display paired with a larger 40"+ HDTV in the den. Also useful if your office has a conference area with a HDTV...which some of the management have. You can push your PP over to the HDTV if you want.
post #252 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Actually it's begiining to grow on me. Now that I see it has LED and an I7 I'll have to visit it in person. Hmmmmm.

Sounds like you need some time alone!
post #253 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

I don't believe iTMS HD movies are even 720p. If you sit closer to a 1080p display than it's diagonal measure, you can see all the pixels and easily tell the difference between DVD, iTMS HD, 720p and 1080p (with the latter pair still being the most difficult to distinguish). How many avenues do consumers have for getting 720p+ material for their Mac? Blu-ray would open up a nice option, even if Blu-ray was only 720p.

The reason for poor quality iTunes isn't because of the resolution (only 720p), but more so because the maximum data rate is 5 Mbps. Might as well stick with SD, which is good enough.
post #254 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfman View Post

Who cares about Blu-ray support?!?! It'll be obsolete in a few years anyway. Apple isn't playing that game. They are pushing digital distribution and will soon offer true 1080p videos..

I agree on digital distribution being the way to go without question. However, I still think Apple would be foolhardy to not provide Blu-ray to its customers who want it if for no other reason to play the library they've already purchased.

For digital distribution to really take hold we need TWO things:

1 - A **FULL** collection of Movies and TV at the highest HD resolution released by the studio (1080p, 1080i or 720p)
2- Reasonable rentals plans:

Rental Plan #1 $4.99 gets you 3 maybe 4 unique/metered SHOWINGS where a SHOWING counts as a movie running for more than 75% of its total run time in a 4 hour window. So yes cheaters could watch 1/2 the movie and then wait 4 full hours and watch the other half and it wouldn't count as a viewing but lets face it most people would not go to such extremes to get an extra showing for 'free'. Otherwise these individual SHOWINGS do NOT expire. I could watch the rental in January, March, June and September if I actually felt the need or perhaps the unused showing WOULD expire on the 1 year anniversary of the rental.

Rental Plan #2 $4.99 gets you UNLIMITED SHOWINGS for a TWO/THREE DAY time span (think Friday 3PM till Sunday 3PM maybe 9? see below),

The 2 plans cover quite a number of circumstances.

Plan #1 the couple on the go... pay for the rental and can watch the movie UP TO 4 times and if something comes up and you have to put off watching it for a week or three it's okay the SHOWINGS will not expire or at least have a very generous expiration period 3/6/9 or 12 months.

Plan #2 the family plan... Kids will watch movies continuously (till their eyes fall out) 2 full days (52 hours would be best) of unlimited viewing would satisfy the little critters just fine. Rental begins Friday at 3pm and would expire on 3pm on Sunday (or 3pm Fri - 9pm Sun) or make it 48 hour rental period with a special weekend promo... Rent anytime on Friday and it expires 12:01am Monday morning

Two major points:

1 - Having a deep catalog of FULL QUALITY/RESOLUTION movies and TV is PARAMOUNT!

2 - Don't even THINK about telling me I can't view my rentals on any TVs in my home or even switch from one TV to another TV, in fact even to the point of showing the same movie rental on ALL the TVs simultaneously (or staggered) but each TV viewing the movie would go against the total number of SHOWINGS I'm afforded (for plan #1 pricing above - if you rent with plan #2 then go nuts 10 TV all going at once if you so desire)

But I somehow don't think digital distribution will even come out with anything close to these terms and thats too bad because unless I find digital rentals to my liking I won't use them and they will loose out the money.

Something the studio need to understand:

In todays world we have an unimaginable number of new and interesting ways we can entertain ourselves with and if the studios make it unappealing or obtrusive to purchase and watch their PRODUCT we will simply see less and less movies yet at the same time we will still get OUR entertainment from numerous other sources, the studios will simply not profit from it.

Could you imagine a world without movies or a much less powerful Hollywood?

When I was growing up in the 80s it didn't even enter my mind... Today, yea sure I can see the Movie Industry become much less powerful then they are now just like the printed news paper and the monthly magazines and even the Music Industry. All of the 'old world' heavy weights are going on a crash course diet and one by one they will all REINVENT themselves or DIE.
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post #255 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Actually it's begiining to grow on me. Now that I see it has LED and an I7 I'll have to visit it in person. Hmmmmm.


As you know, we've got two 24" here, and there's no reflection problems.

What amazes me is how lazy some people are about this. Even matte displays have plenty of reflections. It's actually easier to control it on a glossy display indoors in your own home.
post #256 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

they also said rentals are taking a bite out of DVD sales. at 220 DVD's i stopped and sold my collection. it got to the point where i would watch most movies once a year or so. Now wife and I just rent or pay per view

It would be very interesting to find out what percentage of DVD's are purchased by the rental companies as opposed to consumers. My guess is it is quite a high percentage...
post #257 of 846
I wonder when the new 27" Apple Studio Display with 2560x1440 resolution is going to show up?
post #258 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark View Post

It would be very interesting to find out what percentage of DVD's are purchased by the rental companies as opposed to consumers. My guess is it is quite a high percentage...


and i'm also going to start buying DVD's again. Children's DVD's like Shrek. my son is two and last weekend he sat down and watched Ice Age for the last 30 - 45 minutes. i'll probably buy them in blu-ray.

and we are in a demographic baby boom now and i doubt parents will keep renting children's DVD's
post #259 of 846
Let's face it. Blu-ray is never going to take off. Its going to fill a small niche hear and there, but its not going to replace DVD and its not going to ever hold the next physical media format majority.

I am an uber tech nerd, I have maybe 10-15 friends who have Blu-ray players with over half of them being PS3's. All of my friends combined don't own more than 20 Blu-ray discs. All of my friends combined own more than 4,000 DVD's. The ones that do own Blu-ray discs are mainly when the format just came out and they were giving away 3-5 free discs with the purchase of a Blu-ray player.

I've owned a Blu-ray player since the first day the PS3 was released. I bought 96 PS3's on launch day for resale, but thats a whole other story. In the 3 years I've owned my blu-ray player, I have only rented a blu-ray movie once, the newest Rambo movie. I never even sent in for my 5 free movies when i bought the PS3.

Blu-ray supporters can try and hype it up anyway they want, but in the end its all just that, hype.

On a different subject, the one and only option I was hoping for besides a larger screen that the 24" is to have a SSD drive as an option. I would gladly take a 128gb SSD versus the 1tb hard drive. Heck I would even pay $100 more for the SSD option. I guess I will wait to see the tear down tutorials on the new 27" before I decide whether to upgrade my 24" iMac.
post #260 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe The Dragon View Post

They also make the mac pro look like a sick joke pay $1000 more to get a weaker video card, less ram and a smaller HD.

that's why it's cheaper than a dell workstation. The professional graphics cards are a lot of money
post #261 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

Not from what I've seen in forums. The vast majority demand matte, some say that they see the merits of both, and some say that they prefer glossy. But you would be surprised by the number of people I've seen who say that they will not buy a 13" MBP or an iMac with the super-glossy display. Any display that my parakeet keeps on pecking at is one that's to reflective to see the beautiful LED screen properly.

Those are sideline gripers with no money talking out the side of their necks. Apple didn't have a good 4th Quarter because of them. Apple did well because people like it as it and bought it.
post #262 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I certainly didn't expect LED backlighting AND an IPS screen on the low price models.

That surprised me, too. It sounds like IPS is on the 21” model, too, but I really want that confirmed as it sounds too good to be true. Also looking to see how the mDP input functions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm just saying that betting against B-D isn't a good idea either.

All my friends have B-D players for their wide screens, but few download because the quality is so poor.

It seems everyone I know with BRD also do downloads, and people without BRDs also do downloads. I’m not betting against Blu-ray in the living room as it’s the best consumer option for audio and video, but that is for the living room. Are you betting that Apple adds Blu-ray support and BRD options to their lineup? I think there focus on their digital download service and will not add the optical drive option at all, and may add the OS support for BR media but only after they feel they have gotten a firm hold of digital media over Blu-ray media, even though Blu-ray will be the ideal solution for your home entertainment center for many years to come.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're wrong about that. People don't treat video the way they do audio. I know plenty of people who are happy about MP3 and AAC, but insist on screens bigger than 50" with B-R.

That is true, but I think that the real history of the iTMS success is the convenience that brought in certain areas that made the other caveats inconsequential. I think that for video convenience will also win out with ‘good enough” viewing.
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post #263 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And for a certain segment of the viewing population PQ wins out over convenience, for sure. For that matter, it wins out for me-- I don't much care for the quality of dl video. OTOH, I find myself doing a lot of casual movie viewing on Netflix Watch It Now-- if the catalogue were deeper, I would probably watch the majority of my movies that way, and reserve the big screen high quality treatment for specific films that I know to be visually compelling.

But I question how large this segment is, particularly when you consider the fact that of the movies released each year, only a handful are image intensive. Most are the kind of romantic comedies and dramas that don't require much in the way of PQ to work.

I guess the question is, how good is good enough? In the case of audio, we discovered that the answer was "not that good, actually." My suspicion is is that, even at the current semi-mediocre reproduction levels, video downloads are good enough.

I also suspect that this is a generational thing, with older, more affluent consumers opting for big screens and blu-ray, with younger people being perfectly content with downloads and laptops.

What you are actually arguing is rental vs ownership. Streaming services will naturally consume a larger portion of the rental market (especially if you are comparing streaming to a mail in rental service ala Netflix). With rental, availability is the most important factor. With ownership; cost, quality, and pride of ownership play a much greater role.

I would agree that the younger generation is probably more inclined to rent (and thus stream) while the older generation would be inclined to own (and thus buy DVDs or Blu-ray).

One very important thing to consider is that Blu-ray/streaming can and will coexist for an indefinite period of time. Eventually, I would expect streaming and downloads to win out, but that could be a long time from now (5-10+ years). Are we supposed to not use current technologies because they will eventually be replaced? CD sales may be dropping, but they've been dropping for a decade and there is still a lot of money to be made on them.
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post #264 of 846

The streaming growing faster than Blu-Ray link is rather deceiving because Netflix streaming is free.
post #265 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark View Post

It would be very interesting to find out what percentage of DVD's are purchased by the rental companies as opposed to consumers. My guess is it is quite a high percentage...

I have to seriously doubt that. I live in a smallish city, 48,000 in the city limits and 100,000 total in the county.

15 years ago we had over 75 video rental stores.
5 years ago we had about 15 video rental stores with 3 Blockbuster locations, 2 Family Video locations, and 1 Hollywood video location.

Today we have 5 video rental stores. Hollywood video went out of business, 1 Blockbuster location went out of business, another opens late and closes early and has half the movies they used to, and 1 is still halfway normal, although half the store sells movie memorabilia and posters now instead of renting movies, and the other 3 store are Family video locations. One of which is located far outside of the city in a rural community. One thing I have noticed is that the movie sections in each of the remaining stores has gotten smaller and the video game selection larger. I think rental stores are depending more and more on video games as opposed to movie rentals now.
post #266 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

The streaming growing faster than Blu-Ray link is rather deceiving because Netflix streaming is free.

Weird. They seem to charge me $8.47 a month for it. Can you link me to where it is free so I can try and get my bill reduced?
post #267 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

As you know, we've got two 24" here, and there's no reflection problems.

What amazes me is how lazy some people are about this. Even matte displays have plenty of reflections. It's actually easier to control it on a glossy display indoors in your own home.

But those 24" aren't LED- correct?
post #268 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

For the home entertainment system, Blu-ray is great, but we dont need Blu-ray optical media in computers for storage the way we needed them with CDs and DVDs. Windows has Blu-ray support in the OS so that AACS protected movies can be played and all the major vendors have Blu-ray as an option but its not being adopted quickly. The longer Apple waits to add support to OS X and apps, regardless of including the option for the drive, the less likely itll happen

The HD-DVD/Blu-ray way may have ended, but in that time digital downloads and streaming were able to get a stronghold that DVD and VHS didnt have to contend with. The Netflix CEO has stated that streaming is increasing fast while DVD rentals are dropping and expects that streaming content will overcome optical rentals within 2 years.

With all these new appliances that allow you to rent and buy movies Apple really needs to get the next AppleTV out there before it loses the chance to be in the living room. No one has done it right, yet.

it is a pity you're wrong, the current reports are blu-ray sales are growing at a lot high rate than digital distribution.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/blu-ray-...ard-times/7098
post #269 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What amazes me is how lazy some people are about this. Even matte displays have plenty of reflections. It's actually easier to control it on a glossy display indoors in your own home.

Well your own daughter isn't lazy now is she? She owns matte- no?
post #270 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

it is a pity you're wrong, the current reports are blu-ray sales are growing at a lot high rate than digital distribution.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/blu-ray-...ard-times/7098

I've posted that twice already- they refuse to LISTEN!!!
post #271 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Breathless stories of big gains for Blu-Ray are meaningless unless they account for a baseline. Since Blu-Ray was starting from pretty much nothing as of recently, it's not that impressive to cite percentage gains in shipments.

Meanwhile, the trend lines are clear: streaming and downloads are growing rapidly, while optical media are stagnant. Blu-Rays gains sound impressive until you note that the $500 million in Blu-Ray sales are a drop in the bucket compared to the overall home video market, with even direct view and downloads taking in $1.4 billion.

Downloads are not growing rapidly, they are so small you can barely see them on the reports
post #272 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I've posted that twice already- they refuse to LISTEN!!!

Yeah, just noticed, wasn't going to wade through seven pages of "blu-ray sucks", it is amazing how many people on this site say it is worth spending extra on a mac, but they won't accept the price of blu-ray even with it being so much better than anything else available
post #273 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

it is a pity you're wrong, the current reports are blu-ray sales are growing at a lot high rate than digital distribution.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/blu-ray-...ard-times/7098

And Mac sales are growing at a faster rate than PCs. It follows that Macs will inevitably come to dominate the computer market.
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post #274 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And Mac sales are growing at a faster rate than PCs. It follows that Macs will inevitably come to dominate the computer market.

Clearly Apple should stop selling macs because they will never dominate the computer market.
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post #275 of 846
Well, I made the switch a couple of weeks ago - I went from PC to Mac. I was so sick of PCs and security updates etc. So I bought a shiny new 24" iMac and have enjoyed every minute of using it. I know Apple announced these new iMacs today and there are pros and cons to each of them (glossy screen this, no blu-ray that, only four USB, etc.) but I don't care. I just love having a Mac. You'll never be able to please all the people all the time, and I am going to resist saying 'I wish I had waited', because in truth I'm glad I didn't (as I would have only been able to afford the 21.5"), I am glad I got a Mac when I did, in fact I am just glad I got a Mac!
post #276 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

It doesn't stand a chance to go mainstream in the living room when you can get 1080p from Dish or Direct TV.

In this economy, blue jeans before blu-ray, but it still has a future as an archival media.

Except if you don't live in the US...
post #277 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

it is a pity you're wrong, the current reports are blu-ray sales are growing at a lot high rate than digital distribution.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/blu-ray-...ard-times/7098

Enough of that lame link! Is that article taking into consideration on-demand services from cable/sat companies and, most importantly, the ad supported streaming that makes up the bulk of the streaming these days. Sure didn’t sound like it.
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post #278 of 846
[QUOTE=melgross;1503652]Of course it has bearing. One waxes, and one wanes.[/QUOOTE]

What? You cited the eventual success of the iTunes music store as relevant to eventual adoption of Blu-Ray, which is what I was responding to. Are you saying that there's some kind of waxing and waning of music sales vs. video sales?

Quote:
Right now, B-R sales are making a tremendous increase, with no sigh that it will slow down appreciably for a while. As cheaper players continue to come out, that will only increase more. It's also been shown that most PS3 owners also watch movies on them, and there are a lot of them out there. Most movie prices have dropped to about the price of a DVD release, or just a bit higher, and store prices are often the same, or they're not carrying the DVD.

And, again, percentage increases can't mean much starting from a near non-existent base.

Quote:
I think that B-R has at least five years of growth. That's a long time for the computer industry.

To predict its demise now is way premature.

Yep, that's the point of contention-- how long has Blu-Ray got? Complicated by the fact that "how long" is preceding from a barely established base, so any near term slow down would be a virtual death knell.

This is very different from the DVD trajectory, that was already completely established as the defacto standard by the time any competition appeared. Blu-ray is attempting to establish itself just as downloads, on-demand and streaming are starting to take off, so it's really an uphill battle.
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post #279 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And Mac sales are growing at a faster rate than PCs. It follows that Macs will inevitably come to dominate the computer market.

Not in my life time, and not in my childrens life time. Downloads may be the next big thing, but it will be a while away
post #280 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary.roberton View Post

Well, I made the switch a couple of weeks ago - I went from PC to Mac. I was so sick of PCs and security updates etc. So I bought a shiny new 24" iMac and have enjoyed every minute of using it. I know Apple announced these new iMacs today and there are pros and cons to each of them (glossy screen this, no blu-ray that, only four USB, etc.) but I don't care. I just love having a Mac. You'll never be able to please all the people all the time, and I am going to resist saying 'I wish I had waited', because in truth I'm glad I didn't (as I would have only been able to afford the 21.5"), I am glad I got a Mac when I did, in fact I am just glad I got a Mac!

Congrats to you. Enjoy it.
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