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Apple unveils new iMacs with 21.5 and 27-inch displays - Page 9

post #321 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

well you just made my point.

The install base for blu-ray is higher than downloads, so that means when blu-ray has a 66% growth, and downloads an %18 one, then blu-ray is growing a lot faster than downloads, and downloads will not be able to catch up until blu-ray starts decreasing...

But what does "installed user base" mean for downloads? One way to describe it would be "everyone with a reasonably fast internet connection", which is a vastly larger number than blu-ray players in use. That's what makes the dl business so disruptive-- there's very little friction against uptake, no player to buy or format library to replace-- just a mouse click.

Another way would to be compare revenues, but even there the latest figures I can find put Blu-ray at about $500 million and digital at $1.4 billion, so I'm not actually sure what you're using for your installed user base figures.

And, of course, we have to distinguish among rentals, on-demand, and purchase.

I don't doubt that Blu-ray is currently outstripping other forms for purchase-- it just makes sense. However, I don't think that's were the money is, when it comes to video. Most people aren't going to want to watch most movies more than once, and fans buying up blockbuster boxed sets are a big enough segment to drive all over profits.
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post #322 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Dont be obtuse. He didnt say the majority of the worlds people, he said a lot of people.





PS: Are you aware that most of the world doesnt have an optical disc player of any kind?


Yeah, they do, but you missed his point, again. Convenience often wins out over quality when it comes to media formats. The same seems to be happening here. I love watching certain things on Blu-ray but I watch a lot more Hulu and other downloads, on-demand and streaming sources. I dont even torrent anymore if its on Hulu because it is so convenient. 480p on Hulu on a 13 MBP is more than "good enough.

I don't think that the statement about Hulu or the chart have any meaning in this context.

To say that people watched Hulu at least once during a month doesn't mean anything.

People watch Tv an AVERAGE of 5 hours a day. Yes, that's 5 hours. So how does watching Hulu at least once a month stack up? Not very well. How many hours? Likely very few.

As far as the access goes. All that means is that there are a certain number of POTENTIAL watchers. It says nothing about how many are actually watching.
post #323 of 846
Does this new 27" iMac mean a new 27" Cinema Display is forthcoming?? Now I feel I must hold off on buying the 24" display until I know!
post #324 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm starting to wonder if blu ray is even going to survive in the long run. I was reading today that overall DVD sales including Blu ray dropped 13.9%. They dropped another 13.5% the first six months of 2009. This happening while digital distribution keeps rising.

Everyone thought when HD-DVD died Blu Ray would jump and it hasn't, in fact numbers keep falling. Most people don't seem interested.

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/blu-ray-...ard-times/7098
DEG has Blu-ray sales up 83% over last year. It's also growing in relation to DVD and depending on the sites you read, it is outpacing DVD in adoption rate and player sales. Lots depends on if they count the PS3 as a player.

The hurt with Blu-ray is the same pain as with DVD - the playback. Shocker here - DVD has DRM, region encoding, and encryption. The cost of the hardware is small but licensing, development and support of a player (the software) isn't.
post #325 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Again, percentage increases don't tell you much unless you account for what they're increasing from. The fact is that digital already pulls in way more money than BluRay.

Digital distribution includes PPV (including cable and satellite), downloading, streaming, on demand services, etc. This market has been around longer than even the DVD format, and its current 10% share of revenue is not all that different from the PPV/on-demand market share back in the VHS/early-DVD era. Blu-ray's barely a three-year old format, and it currently accounts for 4% of all home video revenue, which is not an inconsequential growth base.

Also, Blu-ray is strictly an HD optical format, while digital distribution is primarily SD. I have yet to see a breakdown, but I would venture to guess that Blu-ray's revenues already far outpace the digital distribution revenues for HD content. Digital distribution is playing to a very different market because most of the revenues come from rentals and one-time viewing, rather than purchases. Blu-ray and DVD revenue primarily comes from sell-through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

That seems like a very convoluted and somewhat conspiratorial way to account for what's being reported. An easier way to explain it is that the tech press is aware of the misleading nature of talking about rates of increase that doesn't acknowledge absolute numbers.

The tech press has had it out for Blu-ray from the very beginning, and largely ignored the market data time after time as the writers pushed the downloading angle. I mean, how many more "make or break time for Blu-ray" articles are going to come out between now and Christmas? I would guess about the same number that came out last year and the year before that? An optical format is simply not exciting to tech writers, yet it remains what the vast majority of consumers are buying and renting.

Unlike with the computer market where changes and shifts can occur relatively quickly, the consumer market moves much slower and tech writers generally don't acknowledge that. Remember that it took the DVD format almost seven years before it finally surpassed VHS, and the DVD was the most successful consumer electronics debut ever. It also took the CD format about 12 years before displacing the cassette; and despite the growth in the music downloading market, CD sales still commanded 65% of the music market during the first half of THIS year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

Of course it's doing "fine", the question is what's going to happen in the near future.

In the near future, Blu-ray will simply find its way into living rooms by attrition as more households replace broken or otherwise worn DVD players with Blu-ray players, and more households purchase HDTVs. For the NEAR future (i.e., the next couple of years), Blu-ray will be the fastest growing segment in the home entertainment industry. How fast that growth occurs will be up to the studios, who can build up Blu-ray's market share by simply lowering disc prices. Industry analyst surveys I've read about indicate that consumer interest in Blu-ray increases significantly once the player price point goes below $150, and the typical selling prices have not yet reached that point (probably will go below $150 either around the holidays or early next year).

Six or seven years down the line, who knows where things will be at that point. By then, the Blu-ray format will be close to a decade old and probably past its growth phase. But, that's pretty much the same trajectory that the DVD format took. The DVD's growth trend leveled out only about three years after it finally surpassed VHS in 2003.

For all the hype that online video gets, the vast majority of video viewing still occurs on TVs, and most of those are not networked. The killer app that finally creates a simple seamless bridge between online media and the home living room has not arrived yet. When that time comes, (and more households have sufficient bandwidth for HD streaming) then we can talk about digital distribution as the dominant market force. That time just isn't here, and probably won't be for the short term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

Look at what you wrote-- you start by citing Blu-Ray's increasing percentage of optical disc market share as evidence of the format's success, then follow up by dismissing the slump in the DVD market as inevitable. So...... Blu-Ray gets a bigger percentage of a decreasing market.

Try reading what I wrote. The DVD's growth was spurred on by marketing to both the catalog and new release markets. The huge catalog sales for the DVD format is a one-time stimulus that the format will not be able to repeat. The lack of compelling catalog titles and the maturing of the DVD format (from a high margin growth product to a commodity) would have made a sales decline inevitable under any circumstances, and the current economic slump made things worse. It's the same one-time phenomenon that spurred the huge growth of the CD format, and contributed to its subsequent decline.

I doubt that Blu-ray will have the same kind of traction with catalog titles that the DVD format did. The DVD format created a whole generation of video collectors, and completely shifted the video market from a rental-driven market to one driven by sell-through. Most collectors will not repurchase their DVD collections for Blu-ray discs if for no other reason than most movies are not worth purchasing more than once. Blu-ray will not have that same kind of seismic effect, but it will continue to make inroads with the new release market (where the majority of sales come from) and to some degree will drive growth in the home video market for at least the time being.
post #326 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Some seemingly reliable rumors indicated that Blu-ray was in the works for this refresh. How would everyones arguments change if Blu-ray was included. Would it still be irrelevant? And for the mac haters, would it become a non-issue?

They shut up -that's what they do. Just ask solipsism- he's been missing in action for months ever since the iPhone got MMS, Video and cut and paste.
And FYI- just because you want Blu-ray doesn't make you a Mac Hater nor a complainer. 'Nuff said!
post #327 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post



edit: is it his fault if you can't read?

And yes, you are tackling 'real' issues, but in a) the wrong thread and b) every day and c) by posting the same thing and by d) being intentionally antagonistic. Which is fine. I'm just posting about the 'real' issue of you flooding the board with "omg no bluray" comments

I'm far from the only one "flooding " these halls with blu-ray comments. Talk about who can't read? Jeesh! (just kidding )
post #328 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I have brought real issues up today- blu- ray, matte, etc. See my first post. We are all discussing these topics back and forth. No complaints but real issues. What's your problem?
His comment if you read it directly appears literal not sarcastic. He should have added an emoticon or worded it differently. I can't help if he can't write.

You know Teckstud at a level I agree with those of you that want Blu-ray and Matte screens because I figure that these features are why you have a BTO program. BTO has to mean more than adding RAM, HDD and software.

The problem with Blu-ray is that it became a political issue for Apple once they got into the media distribution market with iTunes. I want to see it but moreso I want to have the ability to record 50GB of data so simply adding a Blu-ray player isn't going to make me happy unless I get increased functionality. This is why I think that Blu-ray hits the Mac Pro in a recorder version before anywhere else.

Matte screens. I think most humans are attracted to shiny things though there I feel for the people that get headaches dealing with glossy screens.
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post #329 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

PS: Are you aware that most of the world doesnt have a computer of any kind?

Which simply reinforces the point he was making. Instead of just snapping at people, could you maybe read the posts they're responding to and think a second about the context?
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post #330 of 846
For the first time in years (since I bought my Mac Pro 2006), I'm actually totally impressed by an Apple product and its price. The 27" iMac, is an amazing deal. For 2000 dollars, you get a quad-core all-in-one computer, with a high-pixel-density 27" LED-backlit IPS display, 4GB of RAM, a good graphics card with BT keyboard and Magic Mouse.

How could such a monster go for anything *less* than 2000?

This thing costs almost 400 dollars less than my Mac Pro 2006, yet has a 27" LED-backlit IPS display (a 30" Cinema HD Display with slightly more resolution back in 2006 would have set me back almost another 3 grand...shit, even today it costs almost the same as the new 27" iMac), comes with Bluetooth and WiFi (options I didn't take when I bought my Mac Pro), comes with 8 times the RAM, and 4 times the storage.

I love my Mac Pro 2006 very much. It was the best purchase I've ever done. It's still amazingly fast, has tons of expandability, has never KPed on me, ever. But holy shit, if I wanted something like the 27" iMac back in 2006 but by upgrading the Mac Pro to 4GB of RAM, 1TB of storage, a 2560x1440 capable display and a decent video card, it would have cost me 12 000 dollars. The Mac Pro's expandabilty is nice, and I've been able to add a ton of storage to it as well as more RAM. But let's face it, other than HD and RAM, the Mac Pro is for suckers. Apple almost always immediately obsoletes your Mac Pro by releasing new ones that have, oh say, a 64-bit EFI with video cards that only work on 64-bit EFIs. I think I've been screwed enough by Apple on upgradability to make sure my next purchase will be a decent all-in-one that costs less. And by less I mean, a heck of a lot less...like twice less than the current gen Mac Pros.

Sure, technology advances and stuff gets cheaper but...we're talking about a difference of TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS here. TEN FRICKIN' THOUSAND DOLLARS...in THREE YEARS.

Anyway...this 27" iMac is absolutely perfect for a living room or TV room. If my Mac Pro wasn't still running like a dream, I'd be all over this thing.
post #331 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsharp View Post

I would love to go back to using a mac but:

Imac 27" w/4850 - $3300 (NZD)
Equivalent PC - $1862 (NZD)
Imac 21" - $2000 (NZD)
Equivalent PC - $1300 (NZD) (also has quad not dual core)

Seems hard to justify a 27" Imac when I can have a pc build to match its specs and a second machine with the specs of the 21" for $3162. Or replace the lowly 4850 for a Gt280, double the ram and hb space - for an extra 400-500 (NZD) So $2362 and use the $1000 for a trip to Fiji (or buy some crappy pc software).

I love Apples integration between hardware and software and osx is amazing, but build quality isn't as much better than any other pc these days, components are no more reliable - Both consequences of trying to compete on price, and more than allowable if the price reflected this. I would happily pay an extra 500-700 dollars premium to have a mac, honestly I would. But when I can build a superior computer and have almost $1000 left over it's very hard to go Mac

For the time being, I think I'll just cherish the time I spend working on my work Mac

Did you happen to include the cost of a 27" IPS, LED backlit LCD monitor in your calculations? I kind of doubt it. Not to mention the form factor. Yes a tower + monitor is cheaper, but that isn't what Apple is selling. I'm actually not aware of anything on the PC side that could be directly compared to these iMacs, but I'm sure someone will inform me.
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post #332 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

How many times does Apple have to reiterate their belief about HDMI vs DisplayPort?

HDMI= consumer electronics connection and comes with royalties
DP- PC oriented connection with legacy support for HDMI and is royalty free (unless you buy HDMI adapters)

How many times did they reiterate their belief about ADC over DVI? DisplayPort is effectively dead in the water and going it alone on display has never ended well. Plus I think the customer can afford an extra nickel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Blu-ray is a magic trick besides a bag of hurt? Thank you for that enlightenment.

Plus digital downloads dish out their own share of pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

In what year?

That is the question. Obviously its going to happen some day, buy right now neither Apple, the movie/television studios, or anyone else is making it real enticing. They had a good example of how it should be done with digital music, but everyone's let greed cloud everything.
post #333 of 846
And on about Blu-Ray, IT SUCKS!!


My PS3 BluRay died after a firmware update, won't read any disk. PS3 works and does the Folding@home now but that's it.

Had to buy another PS3, so now I got two nice heaters.

Sony is being sued because of the bricking of so many PS3 BluRays, something I'm sure had to do with copy protection/HDMI being broken. Perhaps serials being copied/stolen or something. So mine got hit.

Blu-RAY IS A BAG OF HURT!!


The iMac is a pain as it is with nothing being user accessible, much less a malfunctioning Blu-Ray and firmware updates coming from (of DRM/Rookit fame) Sony Inc. to protect the copy protection.

You need BluRay? Get a external device. It's not ready for the mainstream and perhaps never will be.

The MIAA (which Sony is part of) really doesn't want BluRay movies on computers, unless they can control the DRM and playblack so it can't be copied. Apple won't go for that naturally, all that evil Sony code in OS X.

Apple is trending towards less mechanical, less laborious, more all on the logicboard type devices anyway.
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post #334 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Which simply reinforces the point he was making. Instead of just snapping at people, could you maybe read the posts they're responding to and think a second about the context?

No- he's trying to drive home his ludicrous point on here that discs are useless simply because HE's opted for that decision. And you know it.
post #335 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Dont be obtuse. He didnt say the majority of the worlds people, he said a lot of people.

So what does a lot mean?
post #336 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Matte screens. I think most humans are attracted to shiny things though there I feel for the people that get headaches dealing with glossy screens.

I have to check out these new LED screens in person. I did not like the previous screen- at all.
post #337 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

Downloads? Oh, you mean watch it on the tiny computer screen? Or buy an AppleTV and only get movies from Apple because it does not work with any other store? No thanks.

Or the PS3 or the Xbox or Popcorn Hour or Vudu or TiVo or any of the other media appliances on the market today. The tide is coming in. Connecting your living room to the internet is coming in strong and nothing is going to stop that from dominating the market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I know a lot of people from Janet's schools over the years. few are techie people, and few do downloads. Every one of my friends who are more techie have B-R, and some do download. Of the school friends, more have B-R than do downloads.

How many BR discs do they own, or how many hours of BR media have they watched that it could really trump the amount of digital downloads, on-demans and streaming media theyve watched over the years. I know I watch several hours of Hulu a week and I have been watching cable on-demand for many years before Blu-ray came out. That seems unlikely to me.

I watch a movie or two on Blu-ray a month. That doesnt come close to the number of hours of ad supported, streaming content I watch per week.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

Netflix streaming is free with monthly membership, even 1 disc at a time.

So you cant get the streaming without renting the disc subscription, which means its not free. Its like saying that MobileMes FindMyiPhone is free because it was added after MM launched. If you cant get it without buying something else it isnt free. Same going for dating; youre paying for it somewhere along along the way.
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post #338 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

They shut up -that's what they do. Just ask solipsism- he's been missing in action for months ever since the iPhone got MMS, Video and cut and paste.
And FYI- just because you want Blu-ray doesn't make you a Mac Hater nor a complainer. 'Nuff said!

I didn't mean to imply that people that want Blu-ray are mac haters as that would include me

All I meant was that some people look for deficiencies and make a big deal of them and then shrug them off when Apple rectifies them.
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post #339 of 846
Quote:
I would love to go back to using a mac but:

Imac 27" w/4850 - $3300 (NZD)
Equivalent PC - $1862 (NZD)
Imac 21" - $2000 (NZD)
Equivalent PC - $1300 (NZD) (also has quad not dual core)

Seems hard to justify a 27" Imac when I can have a pc build to match its specs and a second machine with the specs of the 21" for $3162. Or replace the lowly 4850 for a Gt280, double the ram and hb space - for an extra 400-500 (NZD) So $2362 and use the $1000 for a trip to Fiji (or buy some crappy pc software).

I love Apples integration between hardware and software and osx is amazing, but build quality isn't as much better than any other pc these days, components are no more reliable - Both consequences of trying to compete on price, and more than allowable if the price reflected this. I would happily pay an extra 500-700 dollars premium to have a mac, honestly I would. But when I can build a superior computer and have almost $1000 left over it's very hard to go Mac

For the time being, I think I'll just cherish the time I spend working on my work Mac

I agree with the sentiment of this post 100%.

Quote:
You can get a decent Logitech Bluetooth mouse (the m555b) for about £30 and the Dell 2209WA 22" IPS for under £200.

I'd say these iMac models are a decent improvement but starting the quads at £1600 is not a huge improvement when the last generation Mac Pro started at £1500. Fair enough the 27" screen is huge but who really needs a screen that size, especially when you can't adjust it? No height adjustment, swivel or tilt and only glossy.

I might actually make my peace with the chin on this model. I still prefer the Cinema design but this isn't bad.

The 21.5" ones should have been dual core and the 27" both quads, Core i5 on the lower, Core i7 on the upper.

I also don't care about Blu-Ray. Imagine the price they would charge for the iMac with those. You can get an external anyway or standalone and plug it in via the video input. A PS3 is only $250, which is not much if you are paying so much for a computer - just get the base model and use the PS3 for games/Blu-Ray.

My preference is still the Mini because it lets me use my own superior (and cheaper) display. If they offered the nice Core i5 in a different package, I'd find it interesting but not in this package.

Honestly. It's not like the i7 is now a premium package cpu. It's dirt cheap. The i5 is dirt cheap.

They had the chance. A BIG chance to give the iMac parity with many a mid-tower PC desktop. And guess what? They blew it. BIG TIME!

They could have put the dirt cheap i5s in the 21 inchers. They would have walked out the stores.

They could, as Marv' said, put the i7s in the 27 inchers. Game over.

If you'd have given me the option of buying the £1700-ish quad core iMac with 4850 a year ago...with 27 inch monitor with that resolution? I'd have torn your arms off.

As it is...I have a major league boner for that iMac.

However, we didn't. We got a cheap side-grade when the cpus were there to deliver this ages ago. And then we still have to pay £1300+ to get access to quad core?

Puh-lease. Quad cores can be had for nearly a thousand pounds less.

For the sake of a hundred quid here and there...Apple are nickle and diming their customers. This line up would have been stellar a year or half a year ago. But it's late. Very late.

The 27 inch monitor is stunning. Sure the i7 (which people kept arguing against...y'know...how we 'don't need them', yeah, right...and how they're too hot...uhm...so the BTO option for one is fiction, right?) is nice. The 4850 beats the snot out of my 8800gs. However, for the same price any PC rig in the £1000-£2000 mark has a gpu to pound the 4850 into the dirt. It's a low end gpu. Come on, Apple put at least a mid-range gpu in there. The gpu is the weak link for that kind of resolution.

Which means, I pass on this update. Until Apple update with a better gpu and bring the quad core iMac into the realms of sanity. Then? It's an upgrade. But that's a year away.

Yes, I'm excited by this upgrade. But the premium pricing of cheap pc components is hard to justify in my book. The i5s are dirt cheap. The i7s aren't expensive. And the 4 iMac models should have been split around them accordingly.

Apple are making good profits. But they're clearly ripping off the customer on components that can be had in PCs that are far cheaper. I would have thought the i5s would have been as cheap as the 3 gig core duos?

Shrugs.

Still got a boner for the i7 BTO 27 inch iMac. But don't worry, I'll put some ice on it...

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #340 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

And on about Blu-Ray, IT SUCKS!!


My PS3 BluRay died after a firmware update, won't read any disk. PS3 works and does the Folding@home now but that's it.

Had to buy another PS3, so now I got two nice heaters.

Sony is being sued because of the bricking of so many PS3 BluRays, something I'm sure had to do with copy protection/HDMI being broken. Perhaps serials being copied/stolen or something. So mine got hit.

Blu-RAY IS A BAG OF HURT!!

So blu-ray is a bag of hurt because your PS3 died? So does that mean Apple is a bag of hurt since two of my macs have died and needed servicing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The iMac is a pain as it is with nothing being user accessible, much less a malfunctioning Blu-Ray and firmware updates coming from (of DRM/Rookit fame) Sony Inc. to protect the copy protection.

You need BluRay? Get a external device. It's not ready for the mainstream and perhaps never will be.

The MIAA (which Sony is part of) really doesn't want BluRay movies on computers, unless they can control the DRM and playblack so it can't be copied. Apple won't go for that naturally, all that evil Sony code in OS X.

Apple is trending towards less mechanical, more all on the logicboard type devices anyway.

Blu-ray is not a Sony technology, it is owned by a lot of corporations.

Apples movie downloads are full of DRM, is it ok to include this DRM?
post #341 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

So what does a lot mean?

In this instance it means 38M distinct viewers in a country with 300M.
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post #342 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And the larger the gloss the more crazy you will get- I guarantee it.
Just ask solipism - he uses a 24 glossy everday. Can't you tell?

I use a 24" iMac with glossy screen every day, and have yet to find one single reason to get a matte screen instead. What's your problem, tecktroll?
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post #343 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Another way would to be compare revenues, but even there the latest figures I can find put Blu-ray at about $500 million and [B]digital[/B/] at $1.4 billion, so I'm not actually sure what you're using for your installed user base figures.

And, of course, we have to distinguish among rentals, on-demand, and purchase.

I don't doubt that Blu-ray is currently outstripping other forms for purchase-- it just makes sense. However, I don't think that's were the money is, when it comes to video. Most people aren't going to want to watch most movies more than once, and fans buying up blockbuster boxed sets are a big enough segment to drive all over profits.

Um, blu-ray is digital...

Digital downloads aren't in the billions, they are in the small millions
post #344 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

Digital distribution includes PPV (including cable and satellite), downloading, streaming, on demand services, etc. This market has been around longer than even the DVD format, and its current 10% share of revenue is not all that different from the PPV/on-demand market share back in the VHS/early-DVD era. Blu-ray's barely a three-year old format, and it currently accounts for 4% of all home video revenue, which is not an inconsequential growth base.

Also, Blu-ray is strictly an HD optical format, while digital distribution is primarily SD. I have yet to see a breakdown, but I would venture to guess that Blu-ray's revenues already far outpace the digital distribution revenues for HD content. Digital distribution is playing to a very different market because most of the revenues come from rentals and one-time viewing, rather than purchases. Blu-ray and DVD revenue primarily comes from sell-through.

Can you link to any figures giving the breakdown of DVD/Blu-ray sales vs. rental profits? I can't see to find anything very informative, but I would also guess that "sales" are heavily skewed by Blockbuster and Netflix purchasing discs for rental.

As far as HD vs. SD vs. money, I can't see were it really matters. If consumers are content to download or stream or VoD SD content, that's part of the market we're talking about.

Quote:
The tech press has had it out for Blu-ray from the very beginning, and largely ignored the market data time after time as the writers pushed the downloading angle. I mean, how many more "make or break time for Blu-ray" articles are going to come out between now and Christmas? I would guess about the same number that came out last year and the year before that? An optical format is simply not exciting to tech writers, yet it remains what the vast majority of consumers are buying and renting.

I dunno, that strikes me as dubious. I can't see why tech writers would "have it out" for Blu-ray-- presumably they're part of the very demographic (young, male, tech savvy) that we would expect to see the greatest uptake of the format.

[QUOTE]Unlike with the computer market where changes and shifts can occur relatively quickly, the consumer market moves much slower and tech writers generally don't acknowledge that. Remember that it took the DVD format almost seven years before it finally surpassed VHS, and the DVD was the most successful consumer electronics debut ever. It also took the CD format about 12 years before displacing the cassette; and despite the growth in the music downloading market, CD sales still commanded 65% of the music market during the first half of THIS year.[QUOTE]

Right, but all of that-- the powerful establishment of slow to yield ground analog formats-- happened before the internet. And they all had plenty of time to put down roots before the next big thing came along.

The significant difference with Blu-ray is that there's a credible competitor on the scene at the same time that it's trying to get traction. And it's a competitor-- digital, on demand content-- that seems to have very powerful cultural and technological trends working in its favor.

No time to respond to the balance of your post at the moment....
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post #345 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

Netflix streaming is free with monthly membership, even 1 disc at a time.

In other words, it's not free. It's just that streaming media is so much cheaper for Netflix than keeping inventory of physical DVDs and shipping them that they can build the cost into the membership fee and still come out ahead on average.

I have admittedly not kept up 100% with Blu-Ray, but I recall one of the early issues being that its DRM is not like the iTunes DRM, which is software only and goes away when you burn a .m4p song to a CD. Blu-Ray insists (insisted?) on a dedicated hardware path for the fully encrypted video and audio to travel through any computer to the HDMI cable, where it would continue, fully encrypted, until it reached the terminus of the HDTV, where it was finally decrypted and presented. Blu-Ray is utterly paranoid. If you're trying to implement it on an authoring platform, it's a nightmare. Unless there have been radical changes to Blu-Ray--which I doubt because they would require radical changes in the studios' attitudes toward their customers--I am not surprised that Apple has not adopted it quickly. It's not like DVD DRM, and it's not like iTunes DRM. It's source-to-display tunneling so that the movie executives can keep their precious content safe from the scary pirates and the occasional phantom editor. The PS3 is a closed content presentation machine, so implementing Blu-Ray in the PS3 is a no-brainer. Implementing it on a platform with a broadband hookup and a full suite of internet apps and a full library of content ripping, encoding and authoring software, some of which ships with every machine (along with the free development IDE)? That's a whole different ball of wax.

As for the iMac: It's a sweet update. I was wrong about the display format, but right about Apple going with a custom screen. I note that the 27"'s resolution is precisely 4 times the resolution of 720p, which is actually the best case for scaling on an LCD display, as every logical pixel maps to precisely 4 physical pixels. If anything, 720p should look better on the big iMac than on the little one.

Video in is awesome. It's the one thing I miss on my 24" iMac.

I am completely unsurprised that Apple is offering i5s and i7s. I am more surprised that people actually thought that Apple would leave its most prominent desktop offering with a last generation chipset for any longer than absolutely necessary. They crammed a G5 in that box, once, and those things ran hot. I did predict that the higher end machine would be the one that got the new high performance chips.

I am surprised that Apple is offering 4 slots and 4GB standard on a single DIMM. They really are expanding the iMac into the pro space. I am not surprised that Apple is still charging outrageous amounts for BTO RAM, which is why I have never, ever, taken them up on the offer.

I am surprised, pleasantly, that Apple extended the nice screen to the smaller model.

The gloss of my 24" iMac has never been an issue. Reflections are almost invisible unless the screen is mostly black, and that doesn't happen often given that window backgrounds tend to be white. Even when the screen is black the reflections are dim. I can't understand how this is maddening. It's like my lovely old Radius CRT except bigger and brighter and flatter. As for those people insisting that the complaints on the forums indicate that a majority of users want matte screens, I'd direct you to the archives. Back when Apple was only shipping matte screens there were whole long threads dedicated to griping about all the sales Apple was losing to PCs with bright, shiny screens.
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post #346 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No- he's trying to drive home his ludicrous point on here that discs are useless simply because HE's opted for that decision. And you know it.

No. For heaven's sake. I said: many people are using Hulu. Jfanning responded by pointing out that most people in the world don't have Hulu. Solipsism pointed out that most people in the world don't have a computer, which is to say the "most people in the world" caveat isn't very sensible.
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post #347 of 846
No you got me on a couple of points there. I only included the Acer B273HU 27" LCD monitor 2048x1152. So not as good. And you are right all in one is desirable in terms of aesthetics - but when it comes to upgrading I'll be shelling out for another whole unit or at least a horrifically over priced graphics card. Doesn't seem to justify the $1500 difference

Not saying I don't want one, believe me I do. Just trying to sell myself on the idea (and have a hard time of it) before I try sell the idea to my wife.

And the price here vs there is making it harder - mind you I think it goes through Apple Australasia and then Renaissance Group here before getting to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Did you happen to include the cost of a 27" IPS, LED backlit LCD monitor in your calculations? I kind of doubt it. Not to mention the form factor. Yes a tower + monitor is cheaper, but that isn't what Apple is selling. I'm actually not aware of anything on the PC side that could be directly compared to these iMacs, but I'm sure someone will inform me.
post #348 of 846
Meh about Blue Ray. Still born tech'. With a Sky Plus HD box, who needs it? Between that, a cinema and the iTunes store...shrugs. HD on demand is imminent for the mainstream...care of optical cables and companies like Sky. Who wants a huge pile of discs for something which is a 'bit' sharper than DVDs? For a movie...you'll er...watch once? Big meh.

The Apple Magic Mouse. Very impressed.

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

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post #349 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

No. For heaven's sake. I said: many people are using Hulu. Jfanning responded by pointing out that most people in the world don't have Hulu. Solipsism pointed out that most people in the world don't have a computer, which is to say the "most people in the world" caveat isn't very sensible.

OK_ LEt's get the record straight now. He said:
Quote:
PS: Are you aware that most of the world doesn’t have an optical disc player of any kind?

to push his ridiculous anti optical disc mantra even further.

And I said
Quote:
PS: Are you aware that most of the world doesn’t have a computer of any kind either?

to prove him his point is baseless.
post #350 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Um, blu-ray is digital...

Blu-ray is an optical media. They are aluminium discs encoded with microscopic pits. They use a laser to read the pit variations in the reflected light. That gets converted into digital data after being retrieved from the disc.
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post #351 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garamond View Post

I use a 24" iMac with glossy screen every day, and have yet to find one single reason to get a matte screen instead...

You'll find out, just give it some time. Then you'll be shouting from the rooftops too.

Because everyone's eyes goes eventually, some sooner than others.
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post #352 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsharp View Post

No you got me on a couple of points there. I only included the Acer B273HU 27" LCD monitor 2048x1152. So not as good. And you are right all in one is desirable in terms of aesthetics - but when it comes to upgrading I'll be shelling out for another whole unit or at least a horrifically over priced graphics card. Doesn't seem to justify the $1500 difference

Not saying I don't want one, believe me I do. Just trying to sell myself on the idea (and have a hard time of it) before I try sell the idea to my wife.

And the price here vs there is making it harder - mind you I think it goes through Apple Australasia and then Renaissance Group here before getting to us.

Well to be honest, I went through the same process in February and decided to build a PC. If I was doing it over again with these new mac options, I would personally choose an iMac. Either way, there is value you do not get when you opt for a PC. Whether or not that value is worth the premium you have to pay is, of course, up to you.
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post #353 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Um, blu-ray is digital...

Good lord. I'm using "digital" as shorthand for "digital downloads, pay per view, and streaming"-- just as it is used pretty much everywhere.

Quote:
Digital downloads aren't in the billions, they are in the small millions

DLs, streaming, and VoD account for something like 1.4 billion in revenue as of mid 2009.
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post #354 of 846
Quote:
The gloss of my 24" iMac has never been an issue. Reflections are almost invisible unless the screen is mostly black, and that doesn't happen often given that window backgrounds tend to be white. Even when the screen is black the reflections are dim. I can't understand how this is maddening. It's like my lovely old Radius CRT except bigger and brighter and flatter. As for those people insisting that the complaints on the forums indicate that a majority of users want matte screens, I'd direct you to the archives. Back when Apple was only shipping matte screens there were whole long threads dedicated to griping about all the sales Apple was losing to PCs with bright, shiny screens.

Heh. Good catch. You're right. I remember all that. Bitch fights about the lack of Glossy and how Apple was losing out to gorgeous sony displays etc, etc.

I concur with your post. I never have a problem with the reflections on my iMac. I have to concentrate to see any at all!

*Shrugs. It's glossy all the way for me. I hate matte plastic displays with no glass. Plastic that scratches? No thanks. Feels real cheap too. 'Oh look, I can press the screen and make swirling colours...' Real crap in schools as children like to play ice skating with plastic screens. I hate HDTVs for this. Big plastic displays. Real cheap looking. Put glass in them. Glass is just sand. Plenty of sand on the planet...not so much oil knocking about...

Heh. The lack of glass in an iMac stopped me buying the white plastic ones. I'm glad Apple went with glass in the alu iMac.

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #355 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

So blu-ray is a bag of hurt because your PS3 died? So does that mean Apple is a bag of hurt since two of my macs have died and needed servicing?

No, your Macs didn't die because of a firmware update passed along to hundreds of thousands of people resulting in a class action lawsuit. Big difference. Apple's code is good, Sony's code has always sucked.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Blu-ray is not a Sony technology, it is owned by a lot of corporations.

Apples movie downloads are full of DRM, is it ok to include this DRM?


It's Sony's DRM scheme and they need to control all hardware to make it work.

BluRay is not coming to Mac's.



Who needs it anyway when you got this device?

http://www.roku.com/default.aspx
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post #356 of 846
Everyone complaining about the price/performance ratio of these new iMacs should at least consider the cost of an IPS monitor. They are not cheap, and LED backlighting only increases the cost. Maybe you don't need/want one, but it comes with the iMac so it is fair for Apple to charge you for it.

http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php
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post #357 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

OK_ LEt's get the record straight now. He said: to push his ridiculous anti optical disc mantra even further.

And I said to prove him his point is baseless.

Good God amighty, what is wrong with you? The original comment was about Hulu. The original point of contention was about how significant Hulu uptake is, given the fact that it isn't available for most of the world. Solipsism just pointed out that, given that most of the world doesn't even have optical discs, perhaps, "most of the world" isn't that great a metric.

From there, you started arguing with the Solipsism that apparently haunts your head, but that's your problem.
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post #358 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post

My cousin just bought an iMac last week. Does Apple have a 14-day window where he could bring
back the iMac he bought for a new one?

As long as he bought it directly from Apple, yes, then call After Sales, they'll help you.
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post #359 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Good lord. I'm using "digital" as shorthand for "digital downloads, pay per view, and streaming"-- just as it is used pretty much everywhere.

Well don't, the data stored on an blu-ray disc is digital, just because it is used in a number of places doesn't make it right

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

DLs, streaming, and VoD account for something like 1.4 billion in revenue as of mid 2009.

Something like?
post #360 of 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

I can't believe there are no matte screens on these otherwise glorious iMacs. A message to matte lovers. If you haven't got the matte screens you want, it's because we've been slack in activism. There are only close to 600 petitions at http://macmatte.wordpress.com - we need to get into the 1,000's.

Matte/anti-glare coatings are technically distortion. So a serious graphic artist shouldn't want them. Are there any serious graphic artists that want them?

I could understand if you were a programmer or a writer, who mostly work with text.
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