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New 27" iMac designed to also work as a display - Page 4

post #121 of 223
The primary advantage of what I'm talking about is the ability to disconnect the computer from the monitor/keyboard and take it with you.

Its true it costs more but with the MBP + ACD you get to have it both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The biggest downside of a MBP + 30" ACD vs 27" iMac is cost. The $2199 i7 iMac is cheaper than the 17" MBP which is the only likely MBP to get the i7 and probably at the $2,799 price point the current 3.06 17" MBP costs. A 27" monitor with the same panel as the iMac will likely run you around $1000 if you buy it from LG or Dell. Probably $1400 from Apple.

For $4200 I can get a Mac Pro setup and a Dell 27" and have 8 core.
post #122 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Any many millions more than you and your millions do want it.
So-
You have to use a Blu-ray machine- connect via an HDMI and adaptor because APple refuses to provide what's universally used. Then you can't use a Blu-ray external drive as the OS doesn't have Blu-ray support yet? Therefor you have to buy Windows too? What a pain in the tuckus. How non-state of the art is that?

Roxio Toast has BR support.
post #123 of 223
So does this mean I could use a new iMac as a TV replacement in my bedroom? I would need the ability to connect my TiVo HD via HDMI to the iMac. I know there are HDMI -> Mini Displayport adapters. Is there anything that would prevent this setup from working properly?

Does mini displayport carry audio as well like HDMI or only video? Would there be any DRM issues?

I want to keep the TiVo instead of using something like an El Gato because I need the cable-card functionality built into the TiVo.

If anyone knows, your assistance is greatly appreciated.
post #124 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The primary advantage of what I'm talking about is the ability to disconnect the computer from the monitor/keyboard and take it with you.

Its true it costs more but with the MBP + ACD you get to have it both ways.

Given the costs you're better off with the uber iMac and a MBP than the 30" ACD. $1800 for the ACD vs $2200 for the iMac? For $400 that's a no brainer.

The only thing that argues against a slate tablet killing notebooks is the lack of a keyboard when mobile. Hard to work on a document at the local Starbucks with just your finger for input on the display surface.
post #125 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonr94102 View Post

So does this mean I could use a new iMac as a TV replacement in my bedroom? I would need the ability to connect my TiVo HD via HDMI to the iMac. I know there are HDMI -> Mini Displayport adapters. Is there anything that would prevent this setup from working properly?

Does mini displayport carry audio as well like HDMI or only video? Would there be any DRM issues?

I want to keep the TiVo instead of using something like an El Gato because I need the cable-card functionality built into the TiVo.

If anyone knows, your assistance is greatly appreciated.

You would need both these devices, and until someone tests that out on the iMac there is no way to know.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=801855
post #126 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

11.7 million out of 127 million households, 9% isn't really that much.

And what is the percentage of iMac users/households? \
post #127 of 223
One of the best things about the new iMac is its back. Gone is the fugly Dell-looking,black, plasticy look that used to make us all cringe whenever we saw it in a store. Now its a gorgeous metal. Why would anybody want to hide that beautiful back mounted up against a wall?
post #128 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Roxio Toast has BR support.

For burning or watching or both?
post #129 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This past quarter Apple sold 3 million Macs, 2.3 million notebooks, 700,000 desktops. At best Apple sold 500,000 iMacs. Its a clear trend.

I don't undertand what a tablet would do to help iMac sales.

500,00 iMacs vs how many Blu-rays sold?
post #130 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This past quarter Apple sold 3 million Macs, 2.3 million notebooks, 700,000 desktops. At best Apple sold 500,000 iMacs. Its a clear trend.

I don't undertand what a tablet would do to help iMac sales.

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post #131 of 223
I'm not talking about the current 30" ACD, I would not recommend that rip off to anyone. I'm talking about a hypothetical 30" LED ACD made to connect with the MBP.

I'm essentially saying their is no technological reason Apple could not develop such a monitor. Its about business strategy and getting a little further life out of the iMac.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Given the costs you're better off with the uber iMac and a MBP than the 30" ACD. $1800 for the ACD vs $2200 for the iMac? For $400 that's a no brainer.
post #132 of 223
I don't know, no one is saying specifically the number of BR players sold in the last quarter. That may be because it wouldn't be anything to brag about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

500,00 iMacs vs how many Blu-rays sold?
post #133 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

YES!
I'm totally against these smaller displays. Put black bars at the top or bottom when displaying 16:9 material if you must, but give us the pixels.

Nonsense. You're just using the 30" Cinema HD Display as somekind of basis. But anyone can play that game and say that the 30" Cinema HD Display is small compared to Product XYZ and that they are against smaller displays.

The 160x2560 "missing" pixels would be fun to have but definitely not if you consider that you're going to pay 100 dollars more for them but you're foregoing an entire computer that goes with it.
post #134 of 223
The iMac isn't attempting to dominate the consumer home video market. Nor does it need to in order to survive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And what is the percentage of iMac users/households? \
post #135 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Best to ignore it. Youll try to reason with it, but only after its too late youll realize that you cant reason with crazy. User CP » Edit Ignore List

I literally did not know there was an ignore list setting. Thank you.
post #136 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

i7 is very impressive. Further that is four cores supporting SMT so you can have eight (8) threads going at a time. Plus SMT is vastly improved over the previous implementations so it is seldom a negative. Overall I7 should be very pleasing.

Of course you question is open ended there are places where i7 might not be all that much better than the old chips. Also the new I series chips are at their best when Turbo Boost can kick in. On top of all that Apple has a very powerful new technology in SL that can leverage the multi core processor very effectively.

That tech is called Grand Central Dispatch or GCD and is described as a system wide thread pool. Once all of the software developers are in the pool individual apps should be able to better leverage hardware resources. Err there is a joke in that last sentence, the developers only have to get in the pool if they are in Vegas.

To put it another way going to i7 keeps the hardware viable for a longer period of time. Especially as software and the OS expands support for multi core processors.


Dave

Thanks Dave and all the others for your replies. I am very excited to make the change from PC to Mac. I plan on ordering tomorrow. Any other advice would be appreciated.

Bird24
post #137 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Have to hack EFI, that's where all the decisions are going to go down. It acts as a gatekeeper between OS calls and hardware. (any OS)

EFI and it's GUID partition are part of Trusted Computing which verifies what can be done with your machine. Internet access will be needed by EFI to verify keys/hardware etc so a server has to be set up too with cracks etc. (good going with that for long)

Should be interesting, I always wondered why Apple allowed full screen record in Snow Leopard. But with no OS running while HDCP content is playing...

I think some HDCP keys were cracked or something, because Sony bricked a lot of PS3 BluRays with a firmware update. A lawsuit is ongoing and perhaps this is why Apple may have pulled BluRays from the new iMac's too.

Great info! Thanks. And if the system design DOES allow for the main computing portion of the MOBO to access the stream of unmolested HD video that is streaming into the monitor connection then things are certainly going to get very very INTERESTING... There are a number of group of people becoming VERY proficient in the ways of Apples EFI implementation and the GUID partition.

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post #138 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The iMac isn't attempting to dominate the consumer home video market. Nor does it need to in order to survive.

Oh you're so absolutely right as usual-I forgot the AppleTV is attempting that and is a complete and utter FAILURE.
But the imac is marketed with 16:9 - what do you think that s for ? To view pictures? play GarageBand?
post #139 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

I literally did not know there was an ignore list setting. Thank you.

Literally?
post #140 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm not talking about the current 30" ACD, I would not recommend that rip off to anyone. I'm talking about a hypothetical 30" LED ACD made to connect with the MBP.

I'm essentially saying their is no technological reason Apple could not develop such a monitor. Its about business strategy and getting a little further life out of the iMac.

And you really think it'll cost less than the current 30" ACD? I assume an updated 30" ACD.

Even for the $1,699 retail price for the Dell 30" it's still a no brainer to get the iMac. You could downgrade to the 3.06Ghz C2D 27" iMac and have a zero cost differential.

Even at $1,299 (really unlikely) the iMac is still a great deal since it gives you a uber mini for $400 and a bit of screen real-estate.

In comparison the lower rez PVA 27" Dell UltraSharp 2709 is $929.00. It's real unlikely any new Apple 27" ACD will be less than $1199.
post #141 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Right here-
11.7 million households and the holiday season hasn't even arrived:

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/blu-ray-...ard-times/7098

As you can see - much better than digital downloads and growing at an amazing rate.

yes, and they are all clamouring for blue-ray drives to be included in apple's imac - in addition to the player that they have already purchased.
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post #142 of 223
Yes they could easily sell it for less than the current 30" ACD.

I see the Dell 30" at $1,399.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

And you really think it'll cost less than the current 30" ACD? I assume an updated 30" ACD.

Even for the $1,699 retail price for the Dell 30" it's still a no brainer to get the iMac. You could downgrade to the 3.06Ghz C2D 27" iMac and have a zero cost differential.
post #143 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmon View Post

With the amount of time and development Apple has put into the screens on these new iMacs (bezel-less glass, high quality LED screens, very low price, etc.) it makes me think that new Cinema Displays can't be far off. Considering the 30" display hasn't been updated in years I wonder if they are planning something quite a bit different than just a thinner dumb display with slightly higher specs.

Traditionally, Apple has introduced new Cinema Displays in conjunction with new PowerMacs - which were the natural counterparts - but I wonder if they're shifting the focus and going to pair them with the features in a new Apple TV. They are called Cinema Displays after all. Of course they could build the Apple TV functionality directly into the display itself... but I'm not sure how much different that would be from a 30" iMac and Apple doesn't like to have too much overlap between product categories.

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post #144 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by bird24 View Post

I have been a pc user my entire life and purchased an iphone two months ago. I was so impressed that I took the time to look a imac's at a retail store. Fell in love with them and decided to purchase one when I heard about these new imac's. My questions is as follows:
Which system would perform faster, 3.33 Ghz with a dual core or a 2.8Ghz with a quad core i7? Obviously the assumption is with the same video card, ram, etc. Thanks

What you really want is a laptop with a Solid State Drive (SSD). To the average user, the difference between a quad core 2.8 or a 3.33 dual core won't be noticeable. But a solid state drive makes MASSIVE improvements in application and data loading times.
post #145 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by crackedpot View Post

These new iMacs are still missing multi-touch and Blu-Ray although this feature seems to be their answer to BluRay for now. Please give us multi-touch and with the convenient new release of Windows 7 coinciding it seems quite unfortunate.

You can download the 1080p Blu-ray rips from Torrent sites if that's your answer! I think that's why Apple don't want that overpriced licensing crap with weak copy protection in their Macs because they seen over 5,248 1080p Blu-Ray rips on torrent sites including G.I. Joe: Rise of Cobra, Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Star Trek and Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs! These studios will realize how stupid they really are then breaking their necks to put HD Movies in iTunes because Apple's DRM on their movies really works! One thing for sure when studios realize their folly cost them billions! This will end in tears!
post #146 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

DisplayPort is not compatible with DVI/HDMI. Yes, there are $10 adapters but they only work when your connecting a computer with a DisplayPort output to a DVI/HDMI display. This only works because the video card is capable of generating a DVI compliant signal. The DisplayPort connector is simply a passthrough. This does not work the other way around.

DisplayPort as a standard is compatible with DVI/HDMI. We don’t know how the video in on the 27” iMac works. If it’s just the video input going to the monitor then it should pass along HDMI signaling to the display. This should bypass all other Mac computer parts and anything dealing with OS X. Will this work with the speakers? I doubt it, but we just don’t know it.

Quote:
Also, even with the $200 adapter, it still wont work with the iMac because there is no conversion adapter capable of supporting the native resolution of that display. If the iMac is like any other apple display, it probably lacks a scaling processor so it can't accept 1080p or 720p signals. The iMac can operate at different resolutions internally but this is scaling done by the GPU, and will not support scaling though external input.

We don’t know that yet. Apple states that the video input is compatible with DisplayPort. Since all Macs have mini-DisplayPort this statement is vague, but we can deduce that Apple’s use of DP over mini-DP here means that they are marketing this feature to be used with non-Mac devices.

Quote:
To plug something like a PS3 or any other DVI/HDMI device in, you would need a box that can convert the signal, AND scale it up to the displays native resolution. Some displays have this built in, Apple displays don't.

The DP spec was designed to understand HDMI. That doesn’t mean that Apple has included it, but it was designed to. You have no idea what this iMac was designed to do by looking at the 24” monitor that was clearly designed to connect of other Macs. The 27” iMac doesn’t have a mDP port, but a DP port, which means even if one oddly wanted to use it as a 2nd display for their notebook, they would still need an adapter. There is something else going on here that is outside the Mac bubble.
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post #147 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

500,00 iMacs vs how many Blu-rays sold?

Blu-Ray fanboys need to Google 1080p torrents of their Blu-ray ripped movies! I'm saying this because these studios need to realize they need to put their movies in HD on iTunes because Apple DRM works on their movies! That Copy protection obviously isn't working! Yes I'm email this same info to George Lucas hopefully Star Wars Saga be in HD on iTunes next year!
post #148 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I don't know, no one is saying specifically the number of BR players sold in the last quarter. That may be because it wouldn't be anything to brag about.

First of all, don’t encourage him? Secondly, he’s comparing Blu-ray appliances to IMacs, but not all Macs, just 1/6 of all Macs. Third, iSuppli states that B-R sales in PCs are lackluster and will account for as much as 3.6% this year while speculating that by 2013 16.3% will all that will be had by B-R in PCs. That is over 4 years before the end of 2013 and over a year after the Mayan calendar ends.

With Apple already 10% of the market in the US that is pretty awful for B-R. Finally, I’ve read that half the number of B-R sales are for PS3s, which may or may not be even using the B-R player for movies as the primary focus.

B-R sales are way up, but they coming from pretty low numbers so it’s nothing but marketing spin at this point. When YoY the price of a player cuts in half but the increase in customers is only a fraction of that YoY then you can’t help but think there is a problem. We’ll have to see many quarters of severe upward trend to see that it’s a viable AND desirable optical drive for PCs. Even for home theater it’ll likely be bought as prices fall, but the convenience of digital downloads, streaming and cable/sat on demand services will cut into the optical media rental and purchase business that DVD was master of.
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post #149 of 223
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Originally Posted by Gadgetoid View Post

... get rid of the visually offensive advertising from your site.
</rant>

Use ClickToFlash to get rid of the advertising.
post #150 of 223
Given the new models still have glossy screens, I spent a big chunk of the day persuading people not to buy the new iMacs, just by demonstrating how bad the display reflection is.

I was able to discourage the purchase of 13 units for sure, including an order for 10 kebashed when the purchaser saw the situation.

Watching the 7 min video introducing the new iMacs, you can see of how much effort had to be put into photographing the displays in the limited way needed to downplay the screen reflections.

Can't shoot it head on, in the way people will use the display, because then people will see the camera doing the filming; always have to be off at and angle.

The narrator intones (as a selling point) the uniform brightness of the screen -- even as a bright line of room reflection sweeps across the screen, washing out half.

They even aligned everything so the room reflection would match the screen wallpaper lines and so be less obvious. But you can still see this on the stock photos; half the screen washed out, reflecting the white room background specially set up for the shot.

The narrator intones how the edge-to-edge screen puts the emphasis on "your content and nothing else" ... as more room reflections wash across the screen, obscuring its content.

Targeted for people who don't use computers as computers but instead over-priced media players, its unusable screen makes this another upgrade to skip for people who use computers as computers -- and Apple knows it since they had to work around it so hard to film their advertisement.
post #151 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

Blu-Ray fanboys need to Google 1080p torrents of their Blu-ray ripped movies! I'm saying this because these studios need to realize they need to put their movies in HD on iTunes because Apple DRM works on their movies! That Copy protection obviously isn't working! Yes I'm email this same info to George Lucas hopefully Star Wars Saga be in HD on iTunes next year!

Spot-on!
post #152 of 223
Here is iFixit’s 27” teardown. Maybe we can see how the DP video input connects to the monitor and if it connects to the speakers, too.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac-...27-Inch/1236/1
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post #153 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by galto123 View Post

Given the new models still have glossy screens, I spent a big chunk of the day persuading people not to buy the new iMacs, just by demonstrating how bad the display reflection is.

That's sad. I'm sure they will thank you later on.
In the mean time, I'am waiting for my 27inch iMac ...
post #154 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Cool! I look forward to their report.

Yeah, but that would mean bypassing the OS for the screen display while still having to use it just for audio, which seems sort of insane. I guess their might be some way of just using the audio circuitry, but it sure does seem like it would be easier to just enable the audio spec.

That of course assumes that they are bypassing the OS to use the screen passively, but if they're not it doesn't seem likely that any Blu-ray input would ever work, without system level HDCP (which OS X doesn't do, AFAIK), even allowing for the right adapters.

Bad news. iFixits teardown of the 27 iMac doesnt show a separate DP video in as it could be interpreted on the Tech Specs page. It only has mDP, so maybe a special adapter must be used. One that isnt yet available. Worse possible scenario is that its expensive, you cant use the mDP out to a monitor at the same time, and it wont show OS X while plugged in. Hopefully none of those are the case.
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post #155 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Problem is that you'd need an non all-in-one as your new one.

nah mate this would be the second monitor - sweet
post #156 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

Blu-Ray fanboys need to Google 1080p torrents of their Blu-ray ripped movies! I'm saying this because these studios need to realize they need to put their movies in HD on iTunes because Apple DRM works on their movies! That Copy protection obviously isn't working! Yes I'm email this same info to George Lucas hopefully Star Wars Saga be in HD on iTunes next year!

My friends and I have been doing this for a long time. HD specific torrent sites have been around for quite some time.

I mostly download 720p because true 720 looks frikkin' sexy. A hell of a lot better than "Apple 720p". All audio specs included as well. You can choose torrents with either DTs or AC3.

I'll probably start downloading 1080p though since I do have a 40" Sharp Aquos flat screen + PS3. Aquos and Bravia are the best here in Japan.

The reason I haven't been using 1080 is because my PS3 is only 40GB and my 2007 C2D Macbook fails miserably when playing 1080p out to the TV. Sometimes it hiccups even with 720p but rarely.

p.s. The new 27" is gorgeous in person. [And new MacBook]. MB is VERY solid.
post #157 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Use ClickToFlash to get rid of the advertising.

Yeah, ClickToFlash is great for getting rid of irritating Flam. Especially, since many sites have multiple Flam windows competing for your displeasure.

Most YouTube videos look better in the full screen QuickTime (desktop) option than full screen Flash HD and all its downsides.

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post #158 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The DP spec was designed to understand HDMI

Ok, I don't know why this is so difficult to understand....

There is a type of video signal, called DISPLAYPORT. This is a physical/electrical standard AND a standard by which information travels, out of a device and into a display. Then, you have DVI/HDMI which is another totally different standard by which information is sent to a display. They are like english and french. They are similar in some ways but not the same. If your display ONLY accepts DisplayPort as input then it wont understand DVI/HDMI signals.

DisplayPort was never designed to understand DVI signals. It was designed to pass them through so that you can connect device with a displayport connector, to a DVI display. When you connect a PC with displayport to a DVI display, the computer is sending a DVI signal though the displayport connector. This is because the connector was designed to do this, but only as a passthrough. DisplayPort was designed to passthrough all kinds of signals, but that doesn't make those signals part of the standard.

The source device, regardless of its physical connections, determines what type of signal it sends because its generating the signal. The device on the receiving end has to be able to support whatever type of signal you are sending to it. If the receiving device ONLY accepts displayport (like the 24 inch apple cinema display, and most likely the new iMac), then it does not accept HDMI, DVI, or VGA.

This is why you cant connect a DVI source to a displayport display. A device won't accept DVI signals, just because it supports displayport. They are completely different standards, both physically and electrically. The only reason that HDMI and DVI are cross compatible is because they use the same basic standard to send information, and they are electrically compatible.

Now, of course you could build a display that accepts DVI and DisplayPort, but it would require hardware to decode each different standard, just like displays with DVI and VGA plugs on them. TV's require even more hardware to convert all the different signal standards its expected to understand.

Apple displays, as far as I know have never had hardware like this in them.
post #159 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

My friends and I have been doing this for a long time. HD specific torrent sites have been around for quite some time.

I mostly download 720p because true 720 looks frikkin' sexy. A hell of a lot better than "Apple 720p". All audio specs included as well. You can choose torrents with either DTs or AC3.

I'll probably start downloading 1080p though since I do have a 40" Sharp Aquos flat screen + PS3. Aquos and Bravia are the best here in Japan.

The reason I haven't been using 1080 is because my PS3 is only 40GB and my 2007 C2D Macbook fails miserably when playing 1080p out to the TV. Sometimes it hiccups even with 720p but rarely.

p.s. The new 27" is gorgeous in person. [And new MacBook]. MB is VERY solid.

Your C2D macbook should be able to play 1080p. What kinds of codecs are you using? Sounds like a hardware acceleration problem to me.
post #160 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by galto123 View Post

Given the new models still have glossy screens, I spent a big chunk of the day persuading people not to buy the new iMacs, just by demonstrating how bad the display reflection is.

jeezzz dude... get some anti-glare film... or a life.

I think a few places sell anti-glare film for iMacs now.
http://www.photodon.com/c/LCD-Protective-Films.html

I mean, everybody is freaking out about this when we have been staring into glass CRT's for the past 50 f**king years with no problem.
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