New 27" iMac designed to also work as a display - Page 2

The 2.8GHz Quad-Core, without doubts!

This seems like an ideal feature for Apple's upcoming tablet device. It may even have a usefulness with next year's iPhone refresh.

Go with the Quad. The Core I5 and I7 processors have Turbo Boost Mode which means they function at 2.66 or 2.8 across all 4 cores but if your processing needs are light they shut cores down and bump up the megahertz so now your Quad 2.66 is actually running at 3+ Ghz across two cores.

I’d wait and read performance reviews first because the faster machine may not even be necessary for your needs, but the i7 is better despite the lower clock speed. It’s also more future-proof as Apple’s SL and apps start to utilize Grand Central Dispatch more. Better architecture, too.

I'm a newbie in the area of digital signal cables like HDMI and DisplayPort, but the cable I posted has one male mini-DP and one male HDMI connector. Are these cables not two ways, I mean is there a special input connector and an output connector?

The real question now is if Apple will include the HDMI audio channels so that sounds plays through the iMac’s internal speakers. I doubt it



Not at all, but the cable you choose has mini-DisplayPort on one end. It needs to be DisplayPort.

Apple created the mini version, which VESA later approved. It’s the exact signaling as DisplayPort, just a smaller port interface.

Apple shocked everyone by putting a 2560x1440 27" panel (which was unheard of until yesterday) in iMacs AND offering the combo machine at a price point that is lower than the previous gen 24" high end iMac. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3840x2160 32" Cinema display being introduced before the end of January. Would such a display require two display port connections?

P.S. Just as there was a larger (47") 2560x1440 panel out there that was used to build high-end 47" LCD TVs and displays, there is also a large (56") 3840x2160 panel that is currently in production which is used for very expensive display units...

Apple could sell a 30" 2500x1600 LED display for $1500.

The reason they don't is because a 30" monitor for the MacBook Pro would severely undermine sales of the iMac. I imagine they want to give the iMac some time to sell well before they hurt it.

Any many millions more than you and your millions do want it.
So-
You have to use a Blu-ray machine- connect via an HDMI and adaptor because APple refuses to provide what's universally used. Then you can't use a Blu-ray external drive as the OS doesn't have Blu-ray support yet? Therefor you have to buy Windows too? What a pain in the tuckus. How non-state of the art is that?

Just some common sense:

1 - The display is HDCP compliant

Translation: No such luck expecting the Mac to operate in any way shape or form in such a way as to 'snoop' 'redirect' 'save' or in any way access any INBOUND signal. PERHAPS and this is a long-shot Apple *could* have a mechanism in place that would determine if the signal was tagged 'NO COPY' (or whatever term they use in HDMI DRM lingo) and then based on that determine if the iMac could gain access to the signal... Somehow I think its safe to assume that this is not an actual feature of the new iMac...

In short: Until otherwise confirmed its a safe assumption that this is a good approximation of what happens.

Once an INBOUND signal is detected some manor of the following events will take place.

1 - If the iMac is booted it will probably do one of two things:

- Prompt the user that a video signal is now present and to shutdown the system if you wish to view the content. The mac will then 'shutdown' the OS and possibly put the CPU/Mobo into 'half-power' state. But don't take this to mean that the CPU of the iMac actually has access to the signal itself... There are a number of ways that you could engineer a motherboard so that the CPU could be told THAT a signal has been detected and still never provide an electrical PATH to said signal.

- Do nothing at all since for the iMac to work AS a display it must be powered down 1st (this is MY speculation not based on any actual facts).

2 - If the iMac is powered OFF then the iMac will power the display and show the incoming signal (the computer will not boot).

Now as stated above this is ONLY what I believe to be the process based on the fact that Apple would be crazy to allow access to an inbound signal and allowing the computer to run WHILE a protected HDCP signal is being decoded is a HUGE risk and something I don't think Apple would take any chances with.


Fact:

- People boot Macs into Linux all the time!

- People hack OS X to run on TONS of different (non-Apple) hardware

Combine the two mind-shares and throw in a DASH a general desire by MANY on the net to circumvent HDCP and unless Apple made the possibility to CAPTURE the decoded HDMI signal ELECTRICALLY IMPOSSIBLE (aka hardware designed to make SURE it couldn't happen) then the net.hackers would have a field day and overnight TENS/HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of 'unexpected' iMac sales would occur overnight and very shortly following this bonanza the lawsuits would fly faster then light itself.

Sorry but as much as I'd like to think otherwise... I'm pretty sure Apple designed the hardware in such a way that the decoded signal would NEVER be seen by the CPU/Mobo no matter what OS was running at the time ... not ever.

Your first sensible post in ages.

I really, truly hope so - but if not, most HDMI devices will also let you just get an optical cable and input sound into the iMac that way, no?

Not thinking big enough! With 10GB coming via light port some day this could very well be the beginning of moving towards cooperative horsepower! Imagine if one day plugging your laptop into your iMac suddenly expanded the specks of your laptop while simultaneously (if you chose) syncing your laptop settings & files with the iMac! You're data would be backed up & for those with multiple computer users in the household the independent functionality would mean your spouse can use the iMac when you're away on business!

I hope Apple really digs deep into the possibilities of this feature!

The 27 iMac has a 108.79ppi. A 36 display at 3840x2160 would have an even higher 122.38ppi. Usually it goes down as you go larger, but a new ACD would be more professional focused that this 27 iMac, so I dont think its impossible.

DisplayPort v1.2, which should be released this year, will include the mini-DP port interface in the spec, and allow for double the bandwidth bringing the resolution to 3840 x 2160 with a colour depth of 30 bits per pixel.

Chill out, man. The 27" iMacs are not yet available (not until next month). So nobody has been able to test them (other than Apple engineers). This story is basically a heads-up to start thinking about it.

No way of knowing without actually testing, but Id wager that the audio isnt set up on the DP video in and that only the display input changes on the 27 iMac. Maybe you can switch something in OS X so that audio comes in over USB or mic interface will push audio out through the speakers, but we dont know how it will even handle the switching at this point.

From what I understand when four cores are not needed, the i7 in the iMac will switch to duo cores and run at 3.44GHz. Which I can see validating the switch to quad core for Apple without sacrificing speed.

anantksundaram, please stop making rational comments. It really throws the whole Comments section out of whack.

I had been looking for a DCI to display port adapter for user with my old MBP. Old being early 2008. They are just becoming available, but I haven't tried one yet. I need a cash infusion to actually go out and purchase a display port driven display.

So a HDMI to display port adapter should be pretty easy to do now. The tech is basically the same as DVI.

Dave

Complete and utter bullshit.

Learning how to block certain users can increase your enjoyment of the site immeasurably.

was this article written by a machine? it's barely comprehendible.

Best to ignore it. Youll try to reason with it, but only after its too late youll realize that you cant reason with crazy. User CP » Edit Ignore List

I've mentioned before that I believed Apple would release a new type of iMac that the display was a tablet. Reason being is the future for processors are too hot for full fledge laptops and the trend is towards more MacBook Air's and netbooks that don't have a lot of processing power and need to rely upon a desktop machine for the heavy lifting and disk burning etc.

Well it seems that Apple has done something not quite as radical, but along the same lines in the general direction.

By getting people used to hooking their laptops to their desktops with the larger display, Apple can now start reducing the form factor, features, price and processing power of laptops. In the future, you'll have to buy two computers. (which should do wonders for the stock). A netbook/MacBook Air with optional 3G/4G, SSD or SDXC memory cards and a desktop machine with a larger screen and more muscle which doubles as a TV.

Perhaps why the iMac now sports a quad core and why Apple gave Intel LightPeak.

I expected Apple to move a bit faster, given the threat from netbooks and all, perhaps the tablet is not up to speed yet/people rather prefer a real keyboard too. The iMac as a TV sounds a better way to go as well. This is why I say I don't think BluRay movies are coming to Mac's, iMacTV is a serious threat to the device makers and TV industry which Sony is part of.

Apple seems to be tying to push the MacBook Airs, in the attempt to get SSD down and thus the price of the machines, but it's not working with new SDXC memory so cheap and small coming out shortly. So with more SD slots being on Mac's a SD memory based MacBook Air Lite might be coming in the future, even thinner and cheaper, no hard drive and integrated graphics.

A Apple netbook is coming.

The problem with turbo boost is that it assumes a cool running processor to allow for the speed boost to happen in the first place. The second problem is that the computer may actuallly have several things going on at once keeping core sufficently active to nix full Turbo Boost. Even Safari running as the users only app might kill the prospect of full turbo boost, especially if it has a flash process running in conjunction with the normal threads it produces. You have to remember that GCD has the goal of keeping all those cores running as efficiently as possible. So GCD will often act to undermine Turbo Boost.

Given all of that negativity above it still has the potential to deliver really snappy performance. Since the I cores are atleast 20% faster clock for clock the chips running flat out ought to be impressive. I just don't think running flat out will happen all that much. I'm sure it can be made to happen in benchmarking but real world people seldom have only one single threaded app running. You have to remember GCD manages the thread pool system wide. The goal is to keep all hardware threads active.


Dave

thank you!

No, iMacs can run a second display too.


There are non-encrypted HDMI sources too, but what I can think of are mostly camcorders and computers. There is a PCIe card for capturing HDMI, but it won't touch encrypted HDMI.


With special deals, I think a 30" from other brands can be had for $1000.


Why are you posting something lile that to the internet? How likely is another forum member going to go to your computer to touch your computer?

The demo units I've seen in stores looked fine, and I'm sure many hundreds of people touch them. They might have that oleophobic surface on them like what is on the iPhone 3GS.


That assumes the display absolutely has to be vertical and across the desk. And I don't know if either is as justified for computer tasks. Screens these days are now getting close enough to become the desk, and I think looking somewhat down at a slanted desk might be comfortable. Avid showed off an edit station that was like that, it was 30 degrees up from horizontal.


Is there special wiring to declare the direction of the video signal, or does the port or assume that? I think what we need is for people to try it.


I don't know why you say it "shocked" everyone, it's not a mass murder. Custom resolutions really aren't that big of a deal, it's just not an off the shelf part. I think any of the panel manufacturers would be happy to make one for anyone that's willing to either buy a certain number of units or pay more.


That doesn't really add up. A MacBook Pro + 30" ACD would still be at least $3000 all told, a little less if you go with the 13" model. And that's going with the 2.x Ghz units and a small hard drive. I doubt that would hurt the $1699 iMac with a 1TB drive, or a quad core for $2000.

Doesn't this alternative suggestion require the CPU to still be working on the audio while displaying the external video source?


Another issue: on WP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort) I read that "The DisplayPort video signal is not compatible with DVI or HDMI, but a DisplayPort connector can pass these signals through." Would this suggest that let's say once you succeeded in inputting the HDMI signal from an external 1080p device, the iMac won't be able to display it since it is a different (probably not compatible) signal type?

Wish there was an actual iMac available to simply test these potential solutions!

Why are people saying they are losing vertical pixels in the iMac when Apple added pixels horizontally and vertically in the 27"?

Actually these new iMacs kinda prove that point as the overall price of these displays is actually fairly cheap. Like all new tech LED driven LCDs where expensive upon introduction. That is fine but the underlying tech is cheaper and cleaner.

Don't be fooled by cheap hardware marketed at high prices. People fall for this in part due to LEDs increasing the quality of the display in most cases. Again that doesn't imply that the hardware is intrinsincly more expensive.

Dave

DVI and HDMI use the same video signaling. DP is different, but DP can interpret DVI and HDMI singlaing, thus making it compatible. But that only applies to receiving the older standard. You can send a DP signal to HDMI or DVI and have the signaling correctly interpreted.

None of this is an issue with the iMacs monitor having a DP video input from a TiVo or PS3, for example. If you tried to connect a 2nd monitor to the iMac that was an HDTV that only had component, DVI and HDMI you would be out of luck without a very complex and expensive convertor.

ALL Macs should support this feature -- I have to imagine it's a matter of a simple firmware update to existing models... Can anyone confirm this? Is this feature part of the DisplayPort standard, or an Apple proprietary addition? TIA!

Have to hack EFI, that's where all the decisions are going to go down. It acts as a gatekeeper between OS calls and hardware. (any OS)

EFI and it's GUID partition are part of Trusted Computing which verifies what can be done with your machine. Internet access will be needed by EFI to verify keys/hardware etc so a server has to be set up too with cracks etc. (good going with that for long)

Should be interesting, I always wondered why Apple allowed full screen record in Snow Leopard. But with no OS running while HDCP content is playing...

I think some HDCP keys were cracked or something, because Sony bricked a lot of PS3 BluRays with a firmware update. A lawsuit is ongoing and perhaps this is why Apple may have pulled BluRays from the new iMac's too.

I'm aware of the higher markups on LED displays. The Engineering association I belong to gets a cost plus a percentage discount at an electronics chain. I could get the new LED backlit TVs at over 20% off retail while getting less than 5% off a non LED backlit TV. However, the LED backlit TV still cost significantly more even with the larger discount. As far as I can tell LED does actually cost more to produce right now, just not as much more as we see in the retail prices, but the cost will obviously drop as production ramps up.

I know there are no drivers to view bluray movies in Mac OS. But can you theoretically connect an external bluray drive (not a bluray player), and watch movies in Vista/Windows 7 (bootcamp) using an external bluray drive? I think one won't be able to pass 5.1 audio, but can one theoretically still see a commercial bluray movie using bootcamp with regular stereo audio using windows drivers and software?

I would buy the 27" model instead of the 21.5" if the above setup were possible (and can hold off buying an HDTV with a bluray player for a longer time). Would be nice to enjoy those netflix bluray rentals. I cannot keep a full bluray player like PS3 in my bedroom; it has to be a small external drive (like from Lacie etc.). Any idea?
Sorry if the question seems silly, but I haven't kept pace with windows side of things for years now.

P.S. - For those wondering, Windows is not an extra cost for me cause of heavy subsidy by my university.

It has nothing to with DP, except that its using DP for the video input. They could have used HDMI or VGA. Its just the monitor being switched to accept input from a different source. Like having a KVM Switch that is only switching the video input.

There are still plenty of apps that would benefit more from one 3.4GHz core than four 2.8GHz cores.

The scenario that appeals to me is two 27" side by side, one running Logic and the other acting as a Logic Node for distributed processing. Hopefully there would also be a keyboard shortcut (or something similiar) to act like a KVM switch so you can switch between 1 x 2 head and 2 x 1 head...

Well, I am still waiting to purchase a large monitor, at least 30 inches, which has iSight capability built in. I don't want or need a CPU included. It appears closer to the day when this might happen as iMacs are now sporting 27 inch LED backlit screens. A thirty incher is not that much bigger.

Maybe Apple will release its own external Blu-Ray player? ie like the HD-DVD attachment for Xbox 360.

There seems to be a ton of discussion/speculation with this display in port so I think Apple will shed some light on it sooner than later.

Can't believe my old login still works!