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post #81 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It seems most people think the future of computing should be based off movies from Philip K. Dick books, so I dont the idea of a large upright touchscreen display for everyday computing will go away anytime soon.

Maybe not, but raising your head/eyes to look at screen is one thing, but raising your arms/hands to touch screen is going to get tiring real fast.
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post #82 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Mossberg the Moron.

These latest two products are perhaps two of the most revolutionary products ever released onto the public. He needs to go back to journalism school.

I like the new machines but there is not much revolutionary about them. They seem like nice improvements.

And he is right that Apple has to be more competitive in terms of pricing.

If the white model was $800 that would be a big deal.
post #83 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I could have sworn that 16:10 was the computer dispaly standard these days with the previous standard being 4:3. I wonder what land of make believe that 16:9 was the standard monitor ratio for COMPUTERS.

Well, where did I mention COMPUTERS??? BTW - My 2 year old Dell at work is 16:9.



Quote:
You heard it here folks. Teckstud wants the displays to be glossy to the extreme.

Only you would infer that- my guess is that this has upset you much today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/te...h/22pogue.html

Don't worry, it should only get worse. Personally, I don't care at all.
post #84 of 128
I think Mossberg has lost it.

I never thought of him as a prominent tech' writer. He comes across as 'half-cut' to me.

*Shrugs. Apple just broke 3 million Macs.

Who needs him? He didn't seem to mention the weaknesses of W7? How it's a shameless back to front upside down copy? How it took M$ 9 years to catch up? If you believe it has.

The comparisons are coming in. And Snow Leopard is still comfortably ahead. And we haven't had the Tablet from Apple yet or the ultimate play for the TV living room.

Apple are the puck...M$ are desperately chasing.

Meh. Carbon copy losers.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #85 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

I like the new machines but there is not much revolutionary about them. They seem like nice improvements.

And he is right that Apple has to be more competitive in terms of pricing.

If the white model was $800 that would be a big deal.

The prior model is going for $899 they told me in the store today.
post #86 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

I think Mossberg has lost it.

I never thought of him as a prominent tech' writer. He comes across as 'half-cut' to me.

*Shrugs. Apple just broke 3 million Macs.

Who needs him? He didn't seem to mention the weaknesses of W7? How it's a shameless back to front upside down copy? How it took M$ 9 years to catch up? If you believe it has.

The comparisons are coming in. And Snow Leopard is still comfortably ahead. And we haven't had the Tablet from Apple yet or the ultimate play for the TV living room.

Apple are the puck...M$ are desperately chasing.

Meh. Carbon copy losers.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Lemon- Did you play with the mouse yet? Did it live up to your expectations?
post #87 of 128
Quote:
I like the new machines but there is not much revolutionary about them. They seem like nice improvements.

And he is right that Apple has to be more competitive in terms of pricing.

Well. I tend to agree with this.

The iMac 27 incher is an object of pure lust for me. (I love my iMac, folks...drools...) However, the entry is still using cheapy cheap cpus. Why not stick the i5s in there? They're very cheap!

And for the price of the 27 inchers...why no i7 as standard?

AND WHY still include a cheap-ass gpu 4657567 (ATi Card...) in the 27 incher entry? Should be a 4850. And with a higher model driver the top end.

I guess, kudos that Apple are FINALLY using desktop components in their iMacs...despite ALL the bollocks that was spoken on these boards (yes, you, you, you and you...and many others who should have known BETTER!) about desktop parts 'wont' (me expert), 'can't' (me run Apple...) etc.

So. We have desktop parts, finally(!). But yeesh. These are cheap parts. Cut the entry price of the iMac by at least a hundred. And put the i5 and i7 in as standard. In fact, the integrated crappics should go and the Ati 4567546 card should go in the entry. Yeesh.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #88 of 128
Quote:
Lemon- Did you play with the mouse yet? Did it live up to your expectations?

Hello Teckstud. No, not yet. I haven't finished 'whack-ter-bat-ing' over it yet. (The pictures online, I mean...)

Haven't managed to get to the Apple Store in Sheffield yet. (Where, hopefully, they're in stock...because it takes 'Square group' ages to get the latest kit in...)

On the mouse, I think it's a ground breaking piece of art. It's innovative. Sure, it's not a logi-tech ball of cheese and plasticine mouse with 12 keyboard buttons for absolutely no reason. But it reminds me of the old 'pro' mouse Apple used to ship with its PowerMacs a few years back with the 'see through' look. It looks sheer simplicity. And I like that. While PC mouse makers are piling on the hardware buttons, Apple are making the 'fluff' disappear. No cables. No clit. No dirt.

Magic Mouse looks gorgeous. I can't wait to see how she handles around the corners...and give her the two finger gesture.

I'm getting quite moist thinking about it...

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #89 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Nice list of new Win7 machines. There is an HP AIO for $599. Not fast, poor resolution, but I know of people that simply dont need or want a faster machine that can do more. I think that may fit there occasional needs swimmingly.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/15/h...tus-saves-fac/

It's easier to produce a cheaper machine if you don't invest any money in designing it! Take an iMac and spray paint it black and it would look just like that HP, right down to the aluminum stand. So HP didn't spend any money designing their case, they just stole Apple's design; and they put a cheap, low-end, Intel supplied motherboard inside and a low quality LCD panel.

Yes, Apple has a pretty big profit margin. And it would be nice if they used a bit of that to lower prices a little. But at least some of the higher price of Apple's hardware is due to the fact that they invest money in their designs and generally use higher quality components (but not always) and have higher manufacturing quality standards than many PC makers.
post #90 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Well, where did I mention COMPUTERS??? BTW - My 2 year old Dell at work is 16:9.

The iMac is a computer so its pointless to be comparing it to TVs. When the iMac gets a built in tuner you can start to classify as a TV, until then stop making silly claims that 16:9 monitors have been the standard for TEN years.

Quote:
Only you would infer that- my guess is that this has upset you much today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/te...h/22pogue.html

Don't worry, it should only get worse. Personally, I don't care at all.

Reading comprehension issues again?

www.rif.org

Ive stated many times that Win7 is good and that Vista is also good since SP1, but the damage is done and rebranding and cosmetic change were in order. Try to keep up.

Okay, enough playtime with the troll boy, back to your ignore cage.
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post #91 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

"involving or causing a complete or dramatic change

A display ratio change from 16:10 to 16:9, and desktop-class CPUs over notebook-class CPUs for the first time. Id define those two things as revolutionary for the iMac line.

The new MacBooks unibody polycarb chassis may be revolutionary, but we dont how its made. The milled aluminium chassis was surely revolutionary for mass market computing industry.

It really depends at what your looking at. The whole widget, a part that, a conceptual change, or even something that changes the way your competitors do business.

16:10 vs 16:9 is not revolutionary

iMacs used to have desktop CPUs so not revelutionary since they are just getting back to the past.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #92 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

It's easier to produce a cheaper machine if you don't invest any money in designing it! Take an iMac and spray paint it black and it would look just like that HP, right down to the aluminum stand. So HP didn't spend any money designing their case, they just stole Apple's design; and they put a cheap, low-end, Intel supplied motherboard inside and a low quality LCD panel.

Yes, Apple has a pretty big profit margin. And it would be nice if they used a bit of that to lower prices a little. But at least some of the higher price of Apple's hardware is due to the fact that they invest money in their designs and generally use higher quality components (but not always) and have higher manufacturing quality standards than many PC makers.

Apple also has some benefits in other areas to get their higher margins even while being competitively priced. Like buying bulk higher-end components that others couldnt sell in such volume as Apple dominates the high end segment. Having more efficient production method. I think HP is killing Dell for that very reason.

Better design team. Read on here recently, Good engineering doesnt cost more than bad engineering. Less repairs per unit from using more of the same HW would help there. They have even engineered less waste and use more recyclable materials and cost less to ship more product. That seems like a money saver, even if its minimal overall.

I dont know what the other vendors can do with out trying to go Palms route and trying to focus on less product and making it premium before trickling down to cheaper ones. The caveat that seems to affect other vendors is the use of Windows, which no one thinks is a premium product yet even the Starter version is reportedly costing $50 from MS to licensed vendors.
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post #93 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugodinho View Post

No, they are buying more Macs during the recession

Excellent rebuttal to Mossberg on this point. Computers are nowadays relatively cheap, even the premium ones. I can recall paying over $4,000 US dollars for a Dell with a 386 processor.

I realize many people don't have a choice but to get a bargain computer. They need one now, and can't afford to pay more. But, if you can wait and save up for a $3,000 premium computer, you're ahead. It's not like you are getting an expensive car for show and prestige.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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post #94 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

16:10 vs 16:9 is not revolutionary

iMacs used to have desktop CPUs so not revelutionary since they are just getting back to the past.

I did forgot about the G5 iMacs. Anyone know the power supply wattage on those G5s?

Your argument about displays is like saying that moving from SDTVs to higher definition was not revolutionary because computer monitors had been HD for a long time, but when refering to televisions it would be.

People often state revolutionary when a paradigm shift happens. If the other AIOs start to move from 16:10 to 16:9 displays would that shift not then revolutionary.
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post #95 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Mossberg the Moron.

These latest two products are perhaps two of the most revolutionary products ever released onto the public. He needs to go back to journalism school.

Which is why Mossberg is a paid columnist, respected tech analyst, and... you are not?

Let us know when you are.
post #96 of 128
I really don't need Mossberg to tell me what to think.
2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #97 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by daehl View Post

I totally agree with Walt on this one. Apple needs to reduce the prices. I've owned over a dozen Macs (and a few Apple IIs) and never bought a PC in my life, I'm about to buy a new Mac, but Apple needs to get some more offerings in the sub-$1000 range. The new MacBook should start at $899, and the new iMac $999. And at the very least, Apple needs to upgrade the base MBP config to 250GB HD immediately (with no increase of price), otherwise it's a ridiculous comparison.

I wasn't expecting anything revolutionary design & feature-wise (and we definitely didn't get it), but I was at least hoping for a revolutionary announcement price-wise this month, but no go there either! The Magic mouse is the only really innovative news here. I don't even want to count how many Mighty Mouses I've worn out (that darn track ball just won't stay clean no matter what you do or how many times you try to clean it). So while I can't wait to get my hands on one, they're too expensive also considering how many wireless mice are available for so much less.

Too bad that Apple isn't following the pricing "Trend", because consumers are. Loyal Apple customers who know the value still cringe when they see capable PCs for half the price. No, they're not a Mac, but in today's economy, price matters! ...especially if Apple wants their growth trend to continue to accelerate.

Let me get this straight. Are you telling me, as a consumer, I should put up with all the Windows system disadvantages so I could save $200 up front? My computing time is worth way more than that. As a Mac user who knows the difference, it's not going to happen.
post #98 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I doubt the lighting in your home is the same as in the store.

I was in an Apple Store today - I used the 27" iMac for around 20 minutes. My eyes started to lose focus, and I started to get a headache. I'll try it again at least two more times, but I'm skeptical I could live with it. I think it's too big with that much reflection. It's not only because of what you see reflected, but that your eyes have to constantly adjust to the image. Younger people and those with no perceptual problems may be fine with it.

For me, I've been waiting for this upgrade to buy a tricked-out iMac, but it looks like I'll have to get a mini instead for now, and a non-glare 20-24" display. I wish I could use the display on my iMac G5 (still a very nice display), and run the mini through it. Anyone know if it's possible?

I like the new mouse - not having a center button or side buttons is a concern, but the scrolling works great, and I think the right-click vs. left-click feeling will be okay in the long run.
post #99 of 128
"You can pay much less for laptops and desktops from competitors like Dell and Hewlett-Packard."

...you get what you pay for...
post #100 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Maybe not, but raising your head/eyes to look at screen is one thing, but raising your arms/hands to touch screen is going to get tiring real fast.

Are you recommending a butt-based touch screen for couch potatoes? Would be much easier than having to get off our collective duffs...
post #101 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

What, exactly, is revolutionary about them? They are simply refinements of existing designs.

The iPhone was revolutionary. The current crop of Macs are not.

Well, I'll take evolutionary every time, since I always wait for the revision design. Besides, other than evolutionary upgrades, the AL iMac is the best design Apple has ever produced. This new 27" desktop Quad Core i7, High Definition IPS display, and the new glass design is a refinement I would personally call revolutionary evolution.
post #102 of 128
I've often wondered why Apple couldn't make a broader range of Mac Pro's. I understand that cheap = mini's, mid-range = iMac's, and high-end = Mac Pro's, but Mac Pro's are the only ones capable of supporting multiple monitors (I think?), expansion, and things like that. It wouldn't kill them to make a normal dual core desktop for around $1000. As cool as iMac's are, not everyone wants an all-in-one; they're specialty machines like the Air. My 2 pence.
post #103 of 128
The art easel imac is a tired design. It's been around since the white imac. I expected apple to retire it. The evolution of the imac has run into a brick wall. The refinements are a big whoop! Guess this imac will be around for another 4 years. Sigh.
post #104 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by daehl View Post

That's a straw man argument. I'm glad you purchased something that met your needs, but it does not address the premise that Apple & investors would benefit from lowering their product prices to make them more appealing in the current economic environment.

Maybe you didn't notice that, in this current economic environment, Apple made $1.5 Billion NET profit in the last quarter. I'm sure their happy with that. Lowering their price margins will NOT do anything better for their investors. Apple understands volume marketing in their marketplace will never bring them more profit in the long run, and actually might hurt consumer value if they had to cut corners to make up for lower margins. That's not good for investors or Mac consumers.

Maybe you should reevaluate your economic premise.
post #105 of 128
Having looked at the screens of the new (and old machines for that matter), I can say that the hi-glare screens are a PITA, not that Apple is alone in this regard. It simply limits the utility of the computers. On the laptops, at least with the 15" MacBook Pro you have the option to purchase a non-glare screen.

The "magic mouse" seemed a very odd size to me. Perhaps using one for a longer period of time would make it seem better, but it is not appealing from the outset.
post #106 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Maybe you didn't notice that, in this current economic environment, Apple made $1.5 Billion NET profit in the last quarter. I'm sure their happy with that. Lowering their price margins will NOT do anything better for their investors. Apple understands volume marketing in their marketplace will never bring them more profit in the long run, and actually might hurt consumer value if they had to cut corners to make up for lower margins. That's not good for investors or Mac consumers.

Maybe you should reevaluate your economic premise.

The brand can also be hurt by lowering the threshold of quality and sale price. Remember when Trinitron used to mean quality?
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post #107 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Mossberg the Moron.

These latest two products are perhaps two of the most revolutionary products ever released onto the public. He needs to go back to journalism school.

actually they really aren't. Mossberg is right on that point all the way.

but I say, so what. why does very new release have to be something brand new. why can't it be making what you've got a little better. after all, you don't teach a baby to run the second he takes his first steps.

and frankly I wasn't shocked by the lack of 'revolution' considering all the rumors that Apple is working on a tablet. that will be the brand new thang. which such a new thing it would be hard to do something super crazy with the desktops, so drop the heck out of the prices and give us more bang for the buck. I for one am happy that a bump from 4 to 8 gb in an imac isn't another $1000, that I can put 2tb of hard drive in the machine. that i have a computer that could even replace my crappy 19in tv and so on.

and over the next few days as the stores get the computers in stock and on display and the word gets out, we'll see if they sell or not.
post #108 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Hello Teckstud. No, not yet. I haven't finished 'whack-ter-bat-ing' over it yet. (The pictures online, I mean...)

Haven't managed to get to the Apple Store in Sheffield yet. (Where, hopefully, they're in stock...because it takes 'Square group' ages to get the latest kit in...)

On the mouse, I think it's a ground breaking piece of art. It's innovative. Sure, it's not a logi-tech ball of cheese and plasticine mouse with 12 keyboard buttons for absolutely no reason. But it reminds me of the old 'pro' mouse Apple used to ship with its PowerMacs a few years back with the 'see through' look. It looks sheer simplicity. And I like that. While PC mouse makers are piling on the hardware buttons, Apple are making the 'fluff' disappear. No cables. No clit. No dirt.

Magic Mouse looks gorgeous. I can't wait to see how she handles around the corners...and give her the two finger gesture.

I'm getting quite moist thinking about it...

Lemon Bon Bon.

Drove around the Magic Mouse today to see how it handled. Overall, liked the balance, the "center wheel" flick, and the feel. Wasn't crazy about two finger left and right swipes because the mouse simply isn't heavy enough to keep it from moving... so, I'd probably not be able to take advantage of the side swipes, especially if it takes another hand to steady the mouse, then swipe. Kinda defeats the whole purpose. I think a swipe pad on the keyboard itself would have made more sense.

Also, the new iMac is a veeeeeery nice rig. Love the right to the edge glass on the face (reminds me of a nicely designed car). Looks like Mr. Sandwich is going to need to scrape up the $3,000 to buy a new computer.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #109 of 128
Mossberg: Apple's iMac, MacBook 'evolutionary, not revolutionary'

Bread tastes better in pairs. See I can state the obvious too!
You win, I've switched sides.
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post #110 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Maybe you didn't notice that, in this current economic environment, Apple made $1.5 Billion NET profit in the last quarter. I'm sure their happy with that. Lowering their price margins will NOT do anything better for their investors. Apple understands volume marketing in their marketplace will never bring them more profit in the long run, and actually might hurt consumer value if they had to cut corners to make up for lower margins. That's not good for investors or Mac consumers.

Maybe you should reevaluate your economic premise.

Apple decided (quite brilliantly) to only go after the top 10% of the populous and their profits during a recession only proves the obvious: The top 10% of us have enough cash reserves to buy whatever they want even when the other 90% are struggling.

They don't want 85% of the market because then the EU would start dictating what they can/cannot bundle, malicious attacks will increase tenfold (and we know it is possible to kill a mac), have to lower QC to produce more machines and people will start demanding cheaper budget systems they don't want to make. (Obviously when a $600 notebook still sells for $999)
You win, I've switched sides.
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post #111 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

I really don't need Mossberg to tell me what to think.

Just Steve Jobs.
post #112 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Drove around the Magic Mouse today to see how it handled. Overall, liked the balance, the "center wheel" flick, and the feel. Wasn't crazy about two finger left and right swipes because the mouse simply isn't heavy enough to keep it from moving... so, I'd probably not be able to take advantage of the side swipes, especially if it takes another hand to steady the mouse, then swipe. Kinda defeats the whole purpose. I think a swipe pad on the keyboard itself would have made more sense.

Also, the new iMac is a veeeeeery nice rig. Love the right to the edge glass on the face (reminds me of a nicely designed car). Looks like Mr. Sandwich is going to need to scrape up the $3,000 to buy a new computer.

The glass before- it didn't go to the edge? Where did it stop / - at the black border?
post #113 of 128
"Transitional" is probably a better word. I think the S775 (Core 2 Duo) models are placeholders until dual-core (w/HT) Nehalem processors arrive in Q1 of next year.
post #114 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by arpotu View Post

Are you recommending a butt-based touch screen for couch potatoes? Would be much easier than having to get off our collective duffs...

Imagine sitting at a desk using your computer. The way MS has you using touchscreen is to reach over the keyboard to touch a vertical screen. What I'm suggesting is, if you had a screen that laid flat on the desk, with maybe a 5-10 degree of inclination, you would be sitting more natural, looking at a downward angle as opposed to upward and you would only have to move your hand forward rather than upward .... just sounds better to me anyway!
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post #115 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

The glass before- it didn't go to the edge? Where did it stop / - at the black border?

It stopped about 4mm from the edge.
post #116 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

"Transitional" is probably a better word. I think the S775 (Core 2 Duo) models are placeholders until dual-core (w/HT) Nehalem processors arrive in Q1 of next year.

+1

OK, now it is long enough to post.
post #117 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Mossberg the Moron.

These latest two products are perhaps two of the most revolutionary products ever released onto the public. He needs to go back to journalism school.

I assume this is sarcasm?

Because if upgraded internals and a few new design changes make for "the most revolutionary products ever released onto the public," then virtually anything new can be called "the most revolutionary product ever."
post #118 of 128
Where is E-SATA connection. where is USB 3 and where is height Adjustment. I was waiting to upgrade but E-SATA is a must for me. how about blueray
post #119 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

The glass before- it didn't go to the edge? Where did it stop / - at the black border?

The glass stopped 4mm short of the edge of the machine as was surrounded by the aluminium frame.
post #120 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

What, exactly, is revolutionary about them? They are simply refinements of existing designs.

The iPhone was revolutionary. The current crop of Macs are not.

That depends. "Revolutionary" means different things to different people. If you bought an iMac within the last - what? eighteen months? two years? - then sure: they're not revolutionary. But if you've never had a Mac, or only owned a PowerMac/older iMac then the idea of a 27" LED screen, 1-2 TB, quad-core tiny-footprint all wireless Mac might well be revolutionary. It is to me.
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