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Matte iMac

post #1 of 69
Thread Starter 
I've been looking into a good method to convert an iMac to a matte display.

First thing I have been looking at is simply applying a film to the iMac's outer glass, and I found several severe problems with this. The biggest problem is that the glass is too far from the panel to maintain a clear image when the film is applied. This results in a loss of focus. Another affect this causes is speckling, where the different colors of light end up being separated into little... umm specks. Matte projection TV's usually suffer from this.

I've been studying the build of a few different LCD displays I have lying around and I have some interesting observations about them.

Fist thing I immediately noticed was, that on all these displays the matte finish was simply a thin film applied directly to the glass. The film could be removed (not easily), thus making the display glossy. I'm guessing the matte finish is designed to protect the display and reinforce the glass. They use some very strong adhesive so I wouldn't recommend trying to remove it.

I'm guessing glossy displays also have a thin layer of film on them for reinforcement. Has anyone pulled the glass off their iMac and had a good look? I'm wondering if there is something on the glass. If not, maybe giving it a high quality matte finish would be fairly simple. Then the only hurdle would be replacing the glass bezel with something.
post #2 of 69
Thread Starter 
Here is an example where I applied a matte film to a glossy display, directly onto the LCD panel itself. This is a 10 inch TN panel. Notice there is no loss of focus (this film has no adhesive backing so on some spots its a little blurry where its not contacting the glass)





This is the iMac... very blurry with the film

post #3 of 69
Given that the glass on the iMac can be lifted away from its magnets via the use of suction cups, might it be possible to apply a film to the back of the glass, putting it nearly in the same plane as the LCD panel itself and decreasing the blurriness?

Excellent research/experimentation, by the way, very much appreciated.
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post #4 of 69
Removing the glass should go a long way to fixing the glare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy0o2WdrN3M

You can see the difference immediately when it's removed and you can see the glare on the glass panel itself separate from the iMac. Ideally, a 3rd party manufacturer would just make a plastic sheet or something with a magnetic border to protect the screen.

You can probably make one yourself.

You can get cheap suction cups on eBay to remove the glass if you don't have one.
post #5 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Removing the glass should go a long way to fixing the glare:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy0o2WdrN3M

You can see the difference immediately when it's removed and you can see the glare on the glass panel itself separate from the iMac. Ideally, a 3rd party manufacturer would just make a plastic sheet or something with a magnetic border to protect the screen.

You can probably make one yourself.

You can get cheap suction cups on eBay to remove the glass if you don't have one.

Cool video. That's the '07 iMac, seems like I recall from the iFixit tear down (of the 27", at least) that they declared the LCD panel itself to be "very glossy" ("It's great for spying on those behind you, as well as watching movies").

Hard to tell from the accompanying picture just how glossy that is:

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post #6 of 69
Thread Starter 
I suspect that the thickness of the film itself is actually a factor in the quality of the picture. Thats why I'm curious to find out if the H-IPS panel in the aluminum iMac has a protective gloss coating or not. If someone has pulled the glass off their iMac and taken a close look at the frame around the LCD they might be able to see the edges of the film.

If the glass of the LCD is fully exposed, then its really easy to just stick some matte film on there. If there is a coating then it would depend on the thickness of that coating. Even then maybe a high quality film would work.
post #7 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Cool video. That's the '07 iMac, seems like I recall from the iFixit tear down (of the 27", at least) that they declared the LCD panel itself to be "very glossy" ("It's great for spying on those behind you, as well as watching movies").

Hard to tell from the accompanying picture just how glossy that is:


Weird, cause that almost looks matte to me. They must have very soft lighting. The panel itself appears to be a fair bit less glossy then the outer glass. I don't see any edges where the film would be on the outside. If only I could get a high res photo.
post #8 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

Weird, cause that almost looks matte to me. the panel itself must be a fair bit less glossy then the outer glass. I don't see any edges where the film would be on the outside. If only I could get a high res photo.

It does, doesn't it? But of course we don't know how they lit that shot; with the right lights and camera angle you could make the display with the glass still on look matte.
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post #9 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

I've been looking into a good method to convert an iMac to a matte display.

Hello first post here so bare with me. I too am in the "November" queue for a 27" quad core. I'm also a long time, mac based graphic artist so I'm familiar with the glossy or matte conflict.

It might scare me to attempt this but has anyone else tried to replace the glass with something else. I recently framed an Illustration for a Silent Auction with "Museum Glass". Have you seen this stuff? Its pretty amazing. Surreal almost in that in a room with many bright lights it can look as if there is no glass at all. It makes you want to touch the framed piece because the clarity makes you think there is just no glass. The piece of glass I bought was 18" x 24" for about 50 bucks. It is treated on one side. Hard to tell but you can scratch an edge to see which side is treated. That side would face the art (or LED in this case). Of course I'd imagine it's thinner that the iMac glass so not as durable but I would think this stuff on a designer's iMac would be a dream. Its not "matte" but this stuff seems to all but eliminate glare.

A little information about how Museum Glass works here: http://www.tru-vue.com/Tru-Vue/Products/33/

I don't how you'd install this with bezel and other issues but I'd love to see if it would work. Any thoughts?
post #10 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocotequila View Post

Hello first post here so bare with me. I too am in the "November" queue for a 27" quad core. I'm also a long time, mac based graphic artist so I'm familiar with the glossy or matte conflict.

It might scare me to attempt this but has anyone else tried to replace the glass with something else. I recently framed an Illustration for a Silent Auction with "Museum Glass". Have you seen this stuff? Its pretty amazing. Surreal almost in that in a room with many bright lights it can look as if there is no glass at all. It makes you want to touch the framed piece because the clarity makes you think there is just no glass. The piece of glass I bought was 18" x 24" for about 50 bucks. It is treated on one side. Hard to tell but you can scratch an edge to see which side is treated. That side would face the art (or LED in this case). Of course I'd imagine it's thinner that the iMac glass so not as durable but I would think this stuff on a designer's iMac would be a dream. Its not "matte" but this stuff seems to all but eliminate glare.

A little information about how Museum Glass works here: http://www.tru-vue.com/Tru-Vue/Products/33/

I don't how you'd install this with bezel and other issues but I'd love to see if it would work. Any thoughts?

Thats a good idea, however I would have to wonder how it would preform over a backlit display. It appears that from its description this glass is designed to protect the material underneath from UV, while preventing reflections from outside light sources. I'd have to wonder what would happen if the light source was behind the glass.

It appears from the description that both sides are coated, but only one side has a UV coating. Very interesting.

The other challenge would be figuring out how to cut the glass with curved edges.

Hey, there's a distributor right in my city.
post #11 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Hard to tell from the accompanying picture just how glossy that is

It doesn't look that bad when they tilt the display but they will have really diffused studio lighting:



I've seen pictures of glossy panels on their own and they do have some reflections but most of the glare is from the glass, which is why the anti-glare MBP doesn't have the glass.

The 2007 model had a glossy panel too. If you look at these images, you can see the reflection in the last image to the right of the panel:

http://www.kodawarisan.com/imac_2007...07_mid_01.html

but it doesn't look nearly as bad relative to the top ones with the glass in front. The anti-glare MBP has the glass removed and a coating on the panel, which is the ideal.

It would be interesting if applying a matte coating to the inside of the glass as you suggested would work. So long as heat inside the machine didn't affect the adhesive.
post #12 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It would be interesting if applying a matte coating to the inside of the glass as you suggested would work. So long as heat inside the machine didn't affect the adhesive.

I don't think this would be a good idea guys, the point is to reduce reflections coming off of the outside of the glass. All this would do is reduce the picture quality while doing nothing to the reflective surface.
post #13 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It doesn't look that bad when they tilt the display but they will have really diffused studio lighting:



I've seen pictures of glossy panels on their own and they do have some reflections but most of the glare is from the glass, which is why the anti-glare MBP doesn't have the glass.

The 2007 model had a glossy panel too. If you look at these images, you can see the reflection in the last image to the right of the panel:

http://www.kodawarisan.com/imac_2007...07_mid_01.html

but it doesn't look nearly as bad relative to the top ones with the glass in front. The anti-glare MBP has the glass removed and a coating on the panel, which is the ideal.

It would be interesting if applying a matte coating to the inside of the glass as you suggested would work. So long as heat inside the machine didn't affect the adhesive.

Most of the reflection comes from the outer glass. The inner glass will have some kind of protective coating which will absorb some of the reflection. If you look closely, at an angle at the iMac when its turned off you can see the reflection on the outer glass and reflection off the panel itself kinda like a double image.

It would be pointless to have a matte display under the glass because you would be combining the disadvantages of matte with the disadvantages of glossy. Thats why my original thoughts were to remove the glass altogether and replace it with some sort of frame, and apply a matte film to the LCD itself. This museum glass looks like another interesting option too.
post #14 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocotequila View Post

I don't how you'd install this with bezel and other issues but I'd love to see if it would work. Any thoughts?

Yes. Contact that company and talk to them about it. In this economy finding a new market is probably not a bad thing even assuming Apple eventually ships a matte version.
post #15 of 69
Thread Starter 
Ok, so just pulled my glass and I learned 2 very interesting things.

1 Removing the glass reduces all reflection by at least %50 ... maybe %65 to %75

2 The guide pins that are welded to the metal frame that go around the glass break of really easily... That was a good "oh f**k what did I just do" kinda moment :P

I think its actually a good thing I found this out. It appears they are attached poorly. If I had not removed the glass that metal piece could have fallen into the computer at some point. I think loose metal bits are not good for computers.

I think having the glass in front of glass doubles the reflection because light refracts off of each, and that combined light doubles the reflection you see. What I'm curious about is if adding anti-reflective glass would help cancel out the reflections underneath. At least I know for a fact it would be a noticeable improvement.
post #16 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yes. Contact that company and talk to them about it. In this economy finding a new market is probably not a bad thing even assuming Apple eventually ships a matte version.

BDBLACK, you have a good point about the display being backlit so the Museum Glass may not work its magic the same way as its intended use. The obvious first step would be to simply hold the Museum Glass over the display. If it makes a noticeable difference then maybe it would be worth further and more significant efforts. I guess I could run over to the Apple Store and test a piece of the glass this way but alas, I'll probably just wait until (whenever in) November. Hopefully someone else here will beat me to it and have this all figured out by that time.
post #17 of 69
here is a pic of the new 27" with the glass removed. Notice the reflection of his hand in lower right corner.

http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/ig...up2klgwp6.huge
post #18 of 69
First post here also. I'm working on this problem too for I also will be buying a new 27" iMac and really want to do something about that glossy screen. First off, BDBLACK - since you have the glass off yours already (and I know it one of the older models), but how thick is the glass? Try to be as accurate as possible. Also, BDBLACK - is the black border on the back of your glass just screen printed or painted on or is it a decal of some sort? Now for the magnets, is there anything else on the back of the glass (ie. metal strips. foil, etc.) that the magnets would adhere to? If not, is must be the iron content that is found naturally in the silica they use to make the glass. TruVue Museum Glass only comes in 2.5mm, so I don't think that thickness will work. Most of the non-reflective "Museum Glass" out there is coated on both sides. It is also made with a low iron content because it makes the glass clearer than regular float glass. Crystal clear, but still glossy glass is used many times on higher end aquariums. I think it is sold under the trade name of "Krystal", or something like that. I'm pretty sure Apple would want to use a crystal clear glass for their screens, but who knows when it comes to their bottom line. I'm hoping they do, because then the magnets would adhere to a glass with a lower content of iron. One way to tell is to look at the edge of the glass (greenish is regular float glass, blueish is the low iron "crystal-clear" glass. I have found a source for a thicker non-reflective Museum type glass, from another company. They are sending me a couple of samples in their thicker sizes. They will also cut the glass for me (and finish the edges) if I send them a template. Then all I would have to do is mask-off and paint a black border on the back of the glass. According to the spec. sheet for this glass, the coatings can be painted or screen printed onto. Before I do all this, I will need to try this low iron glass with the magnets to see if they will hold the glass and also lay this glass over a LCD panel to see how it looks.

On another note, has anyone seen that YouTube video of the guy who takes his iMac glass cover off with a toilet plunger? It's pretty cool, all recorded with the iSight camera on the iMac. Take care!
post #19 of 69
Thread Starter 
The back of the glass has a very thin steel frame around it that the magnets stick to. The black border appears to be painted on. The frame also has guides that center it onto the iMac and keep it from moving around. They look like tiny bullets, and they break off easily. The glass appears to be very thin. I don't think using thicker glass would be an issue.
post #20 of 69
BDBLACK - Can you post a pic of the back of your glass (showing the steel frame)? That would be very helpful. Also, can you tell how the thin steel frame is adhered to the glass and if it is adhered onto the painted border. If it is on the black painted border, it is probably held on with a thin strip of 3M VHB (very high bond) double sided adhesive foam. Any other type of glue (ie. industrial super glue) would mess with the painted border and it would show from the front. If it is adhered with foam tape, there are ways to carefully remove the foam strip and all the remaining adhesive from the steel frame. Then, new strips can be added when you want to place the steel frame on the new non-reflective, Museum glass. Once again, can you give me a good approximate of the thickness of your glass. Is it similar to picture framing glass (just under 1/8") or double strength window glass (~5/32") . Thanks for all your help. Take care!

Jim
post #21 of 69
Forget the pic of the back of the glass panel. I found one online, so I have a good idea what I will be dealing with now. I'm pretty sure the metal bezel pieces are held on with industrial double faced tape/film. The trick will be to remove them without bending them. There are ways to do this safely. Removing all the adhesive residue from the metal bezel, attaching new adhesive strips and positioning them onto a new piece of glass will be a piece of cake. Other option would be to just purchase a replacement glass panel and remove the bezel from that one. Good idea if you purchased AppleCare and need to bring your Mac in for service. Just switch panels before you bring it in. Just need some confirmation on the thickness of the glass. Take care!
post #22 of 69
Having designed electronics products with anti-glare (matte-finished) and anti-reflective (special coating) bezels, I can say for a fact that there's no good way to get the iMac's glossy panel to look matte.

The short story:
There will almost always be reflection off the bezel, and there's no good way to apply anti-glare to the bezel without massively compromising image quality.

The long story:
An anti-glare finish needs to be applied very close to the source, and it must not be covered by a glass or plastic display bezel. This is why it doesn't really work for ruggedized electronics with bezels. The outer bezel is a necessity, and the outer bezel will always be the source of reflection. If you do a survey, you'll find that no outdoor or ruggedized electronics (including cell phones) use anti-glare/matte displays. This is not because the designers think matte is bad, it's because it's impossible to achieve a matte finish that doesn't suck when your device has a display bezel. The iMac has an outer bezel, not for ruggedized reasons, but it has one, and there's not much that can be done about this without majorly sacrificing the aesthetic of the iMac.
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post #23 of 69
There are new, museum grade, non-reflective glasses on the market now. The older "matte" glass was etched to eliminate any reflection, but also needed to be placed very close to the artwork to retain any detail. I have this older etched glass on artwork all over my house. This new glass has a thin metallic coating applied to both sides of the glass to eliminate the reflection and is crystal clear from any distance. It is recommended for use over deeply matted artwork, display cases, store fronts and walls of video monitors. I have some samples on the way and will see how they look overlayed onto the bare LCD screen, in place of the original, highly reflective piece of glass. If it does work, that's great and I will decide if I want to proceed further. If not, the original glass can go back on, I pull all the shades and I save the samples for future reference. Take care!
post #24 of 69
This thread is giving me hope that the new iMac may be a worthwhile investment. There's some great ideas here and I can't wait to hear some reports once people have their computers in hand. As the simplest solution, I'm especially curious as to how much just removing the glass will do to cut down on glare and reflections. If it's not enough, some anti-glare film on the display itself as the next possibility. As long as the glass isn't there to seal the internal components and keep them clean, who needs it?
post #25 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by red kiosk View Post

There are new, museum grade, non-reflective glasses on the market now. The older "matte" glass was etched to eliminate any reflection, but also needed to be placed very close to the artwork to retain any detail. I have this older etched glass on artwork all over my house. This new glass has a thin metallic coating applied to both sides of the glass to eliminate the reflection and is crystal clear from any distance. It is recommended for use over deeply matted artwork, display cases, store fronts and walls of video monitors. I have some samples on the way and will see how they look overlayed onto the bare LCD screen, in place of the original, highly reflective piece of glass. If it does work, that's great and I will decide if I want to proceed further. If not, the original glass can go back on, I pull all the shades and I save the samples for future reference. Take care!

EXACTLY! - The way to think about Museum Glass as a "possible" glare solution is to realize that it is not "matte". At least in the way we traditionally think of matte. It is clear, even glossy glass that eliminates, or drastically reduces glare. Like "red kiosk", my new iMac is ordered regardless and I don't expect the glare to be too much of an issue in my home-office. I've just seen what this glass can do with art so I'm glad to hear that someone seems to have a good plan of attack and is checking into the possibilities. So thanks "red kiosk" for the effort and reporting your findings. I for one will be watching this thread with great interest!
post #26 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by red kiosk View Post

There are new, museum grade, non-reflective glasses on the market now....

If we can find out how much this costs in square meters, I can consider going to market with add-on panels. I can't imagine the start-up cost is much more than about $2K -- just find a willing glass shop.

So the question is: would you spend $100, $150, $200, or $250 on a museum glass add-on panel? I can't imagine this stuff is cheap. Hopefully we could make the $100 price point, but I doubt it.

Edit: check this link for museum glass pricing. Basically, I expect we're looking at $150 - $200 for the finished piece. I could also sell in a kit for less: maybe $120 (shipping included) if you paint and put the magnets on yourself.
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post #27 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

If we can find out how much this costs in square meters, I can consider going to market with add-on panels. I can't imagine the start-up cost is much more than about $2K -- just find a willing glass shop.

So the question is: would you spend $100, $150, $200, or $250 on a museum glass add-on panel? I can't imagine this stuff is cheap. Hopefully we could make the $100 price point, but I doubt it.

Edit: check this link for museum glass pricing. Basically, I expect we're looking at $150 - $200 for the finished piece. I could also sell in a kit for less: maybe $120 (shipping included) if you paint and put the magnets on yourself.

I would do $200+ if I had an iMac (I don't) if it was:

1) Easy to not screw up and I didn't have to paint or glue
2) I could put the old panel back on easily.
3) It looked the same as the OEM glass.
4) came with everything I needed to get the old glass off safely.
post #28 of 69
I think it would be difficult to get it the same as the original. If you could get some moulded black plastic or rubber the shape of the black surround on the original glass, you could just inset a museum glass pane into it and fix the magnetic pins into the rubber/plastic. You have to put a hole in it for the isight anyway so if you used paint on the glass, it means drilling a hole in the glass. Drilling a hole in plastic or rubber is much easier.

To get the surround flush on the surface, you could put glue on the edges of a square glass pane and drop it into the rubber/plastic surround. It would probably help to have a small lip at the back to stop it falling through when glueing it in place.

This should keep costs lower as you are just getting a plain square sheet of glass the size of the inside of the original pane, no drilling or curving the corners. To keep the glossy appearance, you can use the type of plastic you get on Samsung's displays:

http://www.dclstore.co.uk/images/pro...23cmzkfv-l.jpg

You could have it moulded with the holes required.

Building the whole thing could be done in about 3 steps:

Get the plastic bezel and put glue on the inside and on top of the lip at the back.
Drop the square glass sheet into place and let it set.
Screw 4 sets magnetic fixtures around the back edges of the bezel.

Judging by the depth of the inset:

http://web.mac.com/khuffman/pics/imac_hd/2.jpg

This glass will have to be pretty thin, which may cause issues with shipping. I reckon just an antiglare plastic screen would do the job and would be a lot easier and cheaper to develop.
post #29 of 69
Although the process would be slightly different for the last generation iMacs vs the newer models, deconstructing the old front glass panel and rebuilding with new glass would be much easier. For those capable, the finished product could be made to look original. There was a production process to build the original panels (they didn't grow on trees), so why can't we duplicate that with non-reflective glass? BTW, I don't think there is a hole in the glass for the iSight. The painted black border on the back of the glass, has a small circle (center top) without paint. This is for the iSightso, no hole drilling is needed!

Also, the magnets are on the computer. Thin strips of metal are adhered to the back of the glass within the painted black border. I'm also looking into the proper paint to use. Although the museum glass will accept silkscreen printing (better than regular glass), I want to make sure it adheres enough so when the glass is removed at a later date, it doesn't pull off with the metal strips. Lots to think about, but I think an original-looking, non-reflective (and we need to start using that term instead of "matte") iMac could be possible. Take care!

Jim
post #30 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This glass will have to be pretty thin, which may cause issues with shipping. I reckon just an antiglare plastic screen would do the job and would be a lot easier and cheaper to develop.

Negative: antiglare doesn't work for bezels. If it did, we wouldn't be going through this discussion.

Tru Vue makes acrylic panels, too, but since I'm not really interested in making money on this, the more likely path to take is to design all of the things necessary to build a museum glass replacement panel and submit the designs to glass shops that can do the work. Then, you would buy the piece from any one of a list of glass shops on my website. Any good framing shop should have no problem doing the work.

When I get my 27" iMac I'll see what needs to be done.
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post #31 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Negative: antiglare doesn't work for bezels. If it did, we wouldn't be going through this discussion.

Tru Vue makes acrylic panels, too

That's what I meant - using a non-glass panel that has no glare. Tru Vue's acrylic panels seem ideal for the purpose and have no chance of shattering during shipping or user mishandling. Wouldn't it be cheaper too?
post #32 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

That's what I meant - using a non-glass panel that has no glare. Tru Vue's acrylic panels seem ideal for the purpose and have no chance of shattering during shipping or user mishandling. Wouldn't it be cheaper too?

It's an option, but acrylic is hard to work with, too. When I get my iMac (I am waiting), I will assess all of these things. I suppose the confusion is due to the term "anti-glare," which is a technical term meaning there's a matte finish. Museum glass is an advanced "anti-reflective" treatment.

The other simple fact is that the iMac DOES use AR glass already, just not with something as advanced as museum glass. It's not clear to me how big of a problem reflections/glare will be.
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post #33 of 69
Thread Starter 
Merry Christmas :P ....

http://picasaweb.google.ca/BD.Blackw...eat=directlink

I'd say the glass is a hair thicker than your average compact disk. It's very thin. Anti-reflective? I think not...

Yeah, the more I look at this, the more I figure replacing the glass won't work. The problem is that the display underneath is glossy, so even if you covered it with a 100% non reflective material, light will still reflect off the LCD itself... however you would see decrease in reflection overall, but not better than having it without glass.

Another problem with replacing the glass is getting it cut properly. It would have to be very exact. Then the paint and mounting bracket... I think the only real solution is to get rid of the glass altogether. Just by doing this you reduce the reflection by at least 60 to 70 percent.

Also, without the glass you can easily make the display matte with film, which would also protect the display.

I'm using the display without the glass right now and I can say for sure that the improvement is very noticeable.
post #34 of 69
Reflective glass or not, it would be really distracting for me to work on a computer that looked like crap.

post #35 of 69
First off - Thanks BDBLACK for the photos, they were a big help.

From what I have read on other Mac forums, the glossyness of the newer LCD screens on Imacs is actually another piece of thin glass laying on top of it. Some iMac screens were getting black streaks that could not be cleaned by just removing and cleaning the front glass. The dirt seemed to be behind the front of the LCD. A few people removed this other glass laying on top of the LCD, cleaned it and also the front of the actual LCD, and this solved the problem. It turns out that this other glass was not sealed around the edges where it came into contact with the LCD and air +dirt was pulled through by the fans. This dirt was then deposited between the LCD and this other piece of glass. Hopefully, the new iMac have these edges sealed so this will not be a problem again.

I'm in the other camp with this project and feel that it will work like a champ. I'm still waiting for the non-reflective glass samples to arrive and have high hopes for success. Museum glass is actually too thick, unless you want to have the glass panel stick out past the front of the case (not so much with the latest iMacs because the glass goes right to the edge of the case on three sides. There is another brand of glass that is available in a 2mm size which should do the trick. I'll keep you posted.
post #36 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by red kiosk View Post

First off - Thanks BDBLACK for the photos, they were a big help.

From what I have read on other Mac forums, the glossyness of the newer LCD screens on Imacs is actually another piece of thin glass laying on top of it. Some iMac screens were getting black streaks that could not be cleaned by just removing and cleaning the front glass. The dirt seemed to be behind the front of the LCD. A few people removed this other glass laying on top of the LCD, cleaned it and also the front of the actual LCD, and this solved the problem. It turns out that this other glass was not sealed around the edges where it came into contact with the LCD and air +dirt was pulled through by the fans. This dirt was then deposited between the LCD and this other piece of glass. Hopefully, the new iMac have these edges sealed so this will not be a problem again.

I'm in the other camp with this project and feel that it will work like a champ. I'm still waiting for the non-reflective glass samples to arrive and have high hopes for success. Museum glass is actually too thick, unless you want to have the glass panel stick out past the front of the case (not so much with the latest iMacs because the glass goes right to the edge of the case on three sides. There is another brand of glass that is available in a 2mm size which should do the trick. I'll keep you posted.

What your talking about is actually the backlight. you can separate the LCD panel from the backlight and clean it. Basically, those weird streaks or "burn marks" are dust that managed to get blown between the LCD panel and the backlight. The backlight is usually made of a plastic screen that provides the illumination, and a series of thin plastic sheets that condition the light.

The front of the LCD has nothing in front of it except the polarizer, and if you tried to remove that you would destroy the LCD. Once the iMacs glass bezel is removed the LCD panel is fully exposed. Most consumer panels are like this and simply use a thin plastic coating to protect the glass. The only thing that makes a glossy and matte LCD different is the coating on the front.

Apple makes their laptops matte by using an LCD panel with a matte coating, and replacing the glass with an aluminum border. One could simply replace the glass on their computer with some kind of border, which would reduce the glossiness. They can also add a good quality matte film at this point and then they would have a matte display.
post #37 of 69
BDBLACK - Thanks for clearing that LCD "glass" issue up for me. So if I understand correctly, to do this correctly, we would need to place an anti-glare or non-reflective film directly onto the LCD panel in addition to the non-reflective outer glass panel. I have noticed that there are both anti-glare and anti-reflective films available for placement directly on to the LCD panel. Anti-glare seems to be the matte finish and anti-reflective more of a glossy finish. Maybe what is on the iMac now is a somewhat anti-reflective film/coating, but not to the extent that the Museum glass is. Doesn't the matte film/coating degrade the image quality somewhat? I've also read that a matte finish is not the best for color correction. Just thinking out loud here. Take care!

Jim
post #38 of 69
Maybe the perfect happy medium would be to retain the glossy , but somewhat non-reflective film that is on the LCD now (to retain high contrast, image quality, color retention properties) and couple that with a high quality non-reflective (Museum Glass type) glass cover. The question is, what is more important to the individual user image quality or absolutely, no reflection. Maybe a happy medium would be the best of both worlds. Some users swear by the image quality of the glossy screen (and they probably have their Mac in an environment that is OK with this type of screen), others take the Black or White approach to Matte vs. Glossy, saying that they could never live with a glossy screen. If you could get the best of both worlds and compromise, that may be the ticket. Once my non-reflective glass samples arrive, I'll have a better idea. BDBLACK - could you live with the reflection your Mac has now, being without the glass screen? Would a non-reflective cover glass, that might reduce the reflection of the LCD and finish off the beautiful design that was intended, be something that you could live with? Once again, thinking with my fingers. Take care!
post #39 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by red kiosk View Post

Maybe the perfect happy medium would be to retain the glossy , but somewhat non-reflective film that is on the LCD now (to retain high contrast, image quality, color retention properties) and couple that with a high quality non-reflective (Museum Glass type) glass cover. The question is, what is more important to the individual user image quality or absolutely, no reflection. Maybe a happy medium would be the best of both worlds. Some users swear by the image quality of the glossy screen (and they probably have their Mac in an environment that is OK with this type of screen), others take the Black or White approach to Matte vs. Glossy, saying that they could never live with a glossy screen. If you could get the best of both worlds and compromise, that may be the ticket. Once my non-reflective glass samples arrive, I'll have a better idea. BDBLACK - could you live with the reflection your Mac has now, being without the glass screen? Would a non-reflective cover glass, that might reduce the reflection of the LCD and finish off the beautiful design that was intended, be something that you could live with? Once again, thinking with my fingers. Take care!

Honestly, I had got used to the reflection a long time ago. After removing the glass though I decided that it would be wayyyy better like that. :P

It just looks better without the glass. There is defiantly a huge reduction in reflection. You can still see a little bit of reflection in the deepest blacks but nowhere near as distracting as with the glass. I'm working on a solution for removing the glass and replacing it with a black border, so it will be more like a normal LCD. This is the best option because you can add a matte finish and then you will have a truly matte display.

If you put any glass in front of the matte or glossy finish, it wont work as well because any glass will have some reflection. Even if its 1% more, thats still 1% plus whatever percentage the LCD itself reflects. This is why the iMac has such bad reflection. Your getting twice the reflection.

As for colour accuracy, thats an entirely different issue and depends on the quality of panel you have and the quality of the matte film. A lot of the colour issues people are having, they due to the construction and mounting of the panels themselves. You know... Uneven backlights, etc. I have a few theories on how to fix that but for now I'm considering that a separate issue and focusing on the matte problem.
post #40 of 69
I think I'm with you on the whole border idea. We just need a frame fabricated so we can cover up the ugly part when the whole glass is removed. seems like it should be easy enough make something like that which could be sold for $40-$50 tops.
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