or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Matte iMac
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Matte iMac - Page 2

post #41 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quick update, I just had a chat with a local plastic fabrication outfit. Apparently they can cut the piece I want out if a sheet of plastic with a cnc machine. I'm going to haul my mac down there so they can take some measurements. I'd like to have it cut from a nice sheet of black polycarbonate or similar plastic. I'll post updates when I get this rolling.
post #42 of 69
Just checking for updates. I can't believe nobody makes these, there must be large thousands of people dissatisfied with the glare, both iMac and Cinema Display users.
post #43 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raf View Post

Just checking for updates. I can't believe nobody makes these, there must be large thousands of people dissatisfied with the glare, both iMac and Cinema Display users.

I'd agree, however I think the size and construction of the part makes it complicated to produce and ship. I'm really curious to see what kind of demand there is for this. I'll post pictures when I get my hands on the prototype. I'm sure it won't come out perfect the first time.
post #44 of 69
Now that I have my 27" iMac, I have to say that glare is not a problem at all. On the other hand, there is some reflection, but it's easy to deal with by desk placement and lighting selection.
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
post #45 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Now that I have my 27" iMac, I have to say that glare is not a problem at all. On the other hand, there is some reflection, but it's easy to deal with by desk placement and lighting selection.

Are you saying the 27 inch has less glare than the 24 inch? I had a look at the 27 and figured the glare was just as bad. Ofcourse lighting can make a big difference.
post #46 of 69
tell us about your theory about fixing the uneven backlight??

thanks a lot
post #47 of 69
I just came across this article. I wonder how to get it to SJ. Maybe he could find a way to make this apply to glossy monitors.

Nanoparticle coating can suppress light reflection

The article starts out like this:
(Nanowerk News) Stuttgart physicists develop a new metallic coating. Whether eyewear or camera lenses: most optical components are anti-glare. Soon nanotechnology could be applied to the coating of optical glasses: Researchers of the University of Stuttgarts 1st Physical Institute have come to know that coating with metallic nano particles can suppress light reflection almost entirely.

http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=...nology+News%29
ADS
Reply
ADS
Reply
post #48 of 69
Give it some time ... like a few years. I saw some demos at CES and I was completely unimpressed. Possibly the German version is better than the Korean (LG) version: the germans have always been especially adept at precision methodology -- of the sort required for growing nanomolecules.

In the meantime, my plans to make a museum glass bezel are thwarted because I have no problem with the current bezel. All I did was move my desk. darn.
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
post #49 of 69
I want to recommend the imac to so many people and buy a few for family and that damn glare won't let me... I wish they would do something about it...
post #50 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I want to recommend the imac to so many people and buy a few for family and that damn glare won't let me... I wish they would do something about it...

Yeah, well I had a bezel cut but unfortunately it does not fit so I'll have to have another go at it. Was too busy the last few months to work on this stuff but I think I'll have another go at it. Basically, my plan it to cut a bezel out of clear plastic with a cnc machine, paint the back of the plastic black, then apply matte film to the display itself. Basically, the display glass would be exposed just like the old school white iMacs. I figure to fully convert an iMac to matte it would cost about $50 bux for the bezel plus the cost of whatever matte film you use.
post #51 of 69
I don't know if this will work for everyone, but I have found a semi-solution to the glare problem without resorting to an after market one.

I tried all the desktop colors and found a solid one that cuts the glare somewhat. If I have Word or another Office app open, I don't get as much glare from the background. It may not work when using other apps, but it could help. It's worth a try.
ADS
Reply
ADS
Reply
post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

Yeah, well I had a bezel cut but unfortunately it does not fit so I'll have to have another go at it. Was too busy the last few months to work on this stuff but I think I'll have another go at it. Basically, my plan it to cut a bezel out of clear plastic with a cnc machine, paint the back of the plastic black, then apply matte film to the display itself. Basically, the display glass would be exposed just like the old school white iMacs. I figure to fully convert an iMac to matte it would cost about $50 bux for the bezel plus the cost of whatever matte film you use.

Hey keep us posted on how this goes, a lot of people will be very interested in this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

I don't know if this will work for everyone, but I have found a semi-solution to the glare problem without resorting to an after market one.

I tried all the desktop colors and found a solid one that cuts the glare somewhat. If I have Word or another Office app open, I don't get as much glare from the background. It may not work when using other apps, but it could help. It's worth a try.

Hey can you post the colour set up?


The crux though of the matter here is that apple is limiting us by taking such a stubborn position with the glassy designs and forcing us into all sorts of diy just to get some basic usability. I have a couple of 24" white imacs, latest intel they offered, and I am very happy with them, but eventually I will have to upgrade, I want to run cad on parallels, memory is limited and the like.

Like I said I d like to get quite a few family members and friends out of pc hell. But how can I get say my X years old mom with her wonderful eizo screen at the moment a glares galore aluminum imac? I would be doing her a disservice seeing as I have used computers so long and know how more superior an anti glare (or matte) option is for everything but watching a few movies or doing photography work (and that is also debatable)...

I think apple is impossibly stubborn in this issue. They could be selling a few hundred thousand more macs easily if they conceded to some form of solution here, yet they don't even seem to be listening, they are so disparaging in this respect. Sure glass looks lovely, sure it's the new design cue, but it simple won't work for such a large % of people. I sincerely wish they figure out the kinks, and that they are very actively working in coming out with a superior glass option that will minimize glare, be it museum glass or whatever they can come up with. But they SHOULD be ACTIVELY involved in r&d to come up with something, this is not a matter of firewire or no firewire, blu ray or no blu ray, this is a major usability issue for so many people, and since they opted for the glass design they should eventually make it a workable option too....

...like I said, I surely hope they are actively working at fixing this, but until they do, I am very pissed off at them because they have tied our hands here so much, all of us who like and enjoy the mac platform and ecosystem...
post #53 of 69
Originally Posted by sequitur
I don't know if this will work for everyone, but I have found a semi-solution to the glare problem without resorting to an after market one.

I tried all the desktop colors and found a solid one that cuts the glare somewhat. If I have Word or another Office app open, I don't get as much glare from the background. It may not work when using other apps, but it could help. It's worth a try.


Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


Hey can you post the colour set up?

.

System preferences/Desktop&SceenSaver/Desktop/SolidColors/Solid Gray Dark.

This one worked for me; however, I have a translucent shade on the only window and that's behind the computer. The shade cuts out about half the light coming from the south and that's the brightest sunlight I receive, I checked using several apps and I have NO glare with this set up. I was surprised by the glare on the iMac at Best Buy.

Try all the desktop colors. One may possibly work for you.
ADS
Reply
ADS
Reply
post #54 of 69
hey thanks sequitor!!!
post #55 of 69
Thread Starter 
Well, its back at the shop. They will have another go at it and hopefully it will come out right this time. The size and shape, combined with the light weight causes the material to move too much when being cut so it came out crooked. I could also have this injection moulded or cast but that would only be viable if I wanted to make 1000 of them. I'll just have to wait and see.

Another solution would be to do it just like Apple and make a cast or machined aluminum bezel but I see several problems with that when going to larger displays. The iMac bezel is 1/16th inch thick. A part like that could be easily warped or damaged in manufacturing or transit, especially when going to 27 inches. I hear they cant even keep the glass bezel from breaking in shipping on the newer iMacs.

I've also been thinking about fibreglass or carbon fibre but I'm not sure if those would be viable at 1/16th inch thickness. I know Ferrari vacuums moulds their carbon fibre into some very precise shapes so it might be possible.
post #56 of 69
What happpneed??!! Whyhas this thread ended?! lol im just looking in to buy the new 27 inch imac and all these solutions to replace the glass display has gotten me intrigued! Did the samples of the museum glass make a big difference? Did making a black panel to replace the ugly edges work out??!!
THANK YOU!
post #57 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cswetta View Post

What happpneed??!! Whyhas this thread ended?! lol im just looking in to buy the new 27 inch imac and all these solutions to replace the glass display has gotten me intrigued! Did the samples of the museum glass make a big difference? Did making a black panel to replace the ugly edges work out??!!
THANK YOU!

I had a replacement bezel cut. Basically a thin plastic peice that acts as a border, with the center cut out so you can use a matte film. Unfortunatly, it's difficult to cut 1/16 inch plastic with a CNC machine. The material moves around too much. I think the only solution is to have an aluminum or steel border cut but that's too expensive for me to bother with at the moment. Maybe some time in the future I might mess with this again if apple sticks with using glass.
post #58 of 69
Yesterday I was standing and testing the 30 inch apple cinema display with the 27 inch imac.. To be honest, its my preference that I do not like true colors and the grainy look and rather have the colors POP and be very vivid like from the 27 inch, although the glass was simply terrible, lovely mirror nonetheless. For me, a good solution is the gloss finish, its not ideal but its certainly the only option... colors are good and its not half as reflective and this means using the imac without the glass on top which I am totally fine with. I did call up local glaziers to check up on prices on museum glass and acrlyic glass but its way too thick and costs more than a grand!
That option went flying out the window!
Now BDBLACK, what you've done seems like a very good idea to cover the edges and I would really appreciate it if I could see a picture, if its too much trouble, because it seems like your approach is the only one that I can adapt to.
post #59 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cswetta View Post

Yesterday I was standing and testing the 30 inch apple cinema display with the 27 inch imac.. To be honest, its my preference that I do not like true colors and the grainy look and rather have the colors POP and be very vivid like from the 27 inch, although the glass was simply terrible, lovely mirror nonetheless. For me, a good solution is the gloss finish, its not ideal but its certainly the only option... colors are good and its not half as reflective and this means using the imac without the glass on top which I am totally fine with. I did call up local glaziers to check up on prices on museum glass and acrlyic glass but its way too thick and costs more than a grand!
That option went flying out the window!
Now BDBLACK, what you've done seems like a very good idea to cover the edges and I would really appreciate it if I could see a picture, if its too much trouble, because it seems like your approach is the only one that I can adapt to.

Don't have a picture unfortunately. The part I had made didn't fit because of the material moving around too much on the CNC machine. I never managed to get one cut properly. Plastic is no good as the iMac bezel is only 1/16 inch thick. The material is like jello at that thickness and it can't be cut at the required accuracy. Metal is the only material that will work. If I do manage to get one cut out of metal some time I'll post a picture here.

I think aluminum would be the perfect material as it's fairly strong and easy to cut. It would have to be cut damn accurate though, and it would need some very thin steel glued to the back for the magnets to hold on.
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBLACK View Post

Don't have a picture unfortunately. The part I had made didn't fit because of the material moving around too much on the CNC machine. I never managed to get one cut properly. Plastic is no good as the iMac bezel is only 1/16 inch thick. The material is like jello at that thickness and it can't be cut at the required accuracy. Metal is the only material that will work. If I do manage to get one cut out of metal some time I'll post a picture here.

I think aluminum would be the perfect material as it's fairly strong and easy to cut. It would have to be cut damn accurate though, and it would need some very thin steel glued to the back for the magnets to hold on.

Oh I get it now... I actually just found this place that does alot of glass work. And she told me she's got some sort of anti reflective glass which is 2mm thick. Hopefully ill try to make some time and go have a look at it as soon as possible and would cost around $40 cut perfectly to the size i need. Although its just really difficult finding the exact specifications of the glass such as its exact size and thickness. Would you happen to have these details?
Ah and if this piece of glass is actually a good substitute I gotta find someone who can do the aluminum cutting lol
Another question, if I do decide to just use the iMac without the glass at the front on a permanant basis, does it really make a difference as to weather it should or should not be used without the glass on a long term basis?
Ah it would be bloody convenient if you could just buy the glass piece of Apple and then cut out the glass in the middle and leave the borders and leave that stuck on!
post #61 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cswetta View Post

Oh I get it now... I actually just found this place that does alot of glass work. And she told me she's got some sort of anti reflective glass which is 2mm thick. Hopefully ill try to make some time and go have a look at it as soon as possible and would cost around $40 cut perfectly to the size i need. Although its just really difficult finding the exact specifications of the glass such as its exact size and thickness. Would you happen to have these details?
Ah and if this piece of glass is actually a good substitute I gotta find someone who can do the aluminum cutting lol
Another question, if I do decide to just use the iMac without the glass at the front on a permanant basis, does it really make a difference as to weather it should or should not be used without the glass on a long term basis?
Ah it would be bloody convenient if you could just buy the glass piece of Apple and then cut out the glass in the middle and leave the borders and leave that stuck on!

I only have measurements for the 24 inch iMac. Also, a word of caution: that glass is 1/16 inches thick. It's very thin and those corners are not simple curves. The cut would have to be very exact. I think it would be impossible to do by hand. Also the glass panel is reinforced with steel around the border which attaches to the iMac with magnets. The glass would be very fragile without this border. The paint around the borders has to have spaces for the IR sensor and iSight.

Really though, I don't think AR glass will be much of an improvement.
post #62 of 69
I have two pieces of art covered with museum glass, each by a different framing company at a different time. It's expensive stuff but works well, as a number of posters have indicated. Under artificial light, it's perfect and disappears.

However, under certain light in my living room, mostly daylight, one of the museum glass pictures now has a light green tint, and the other has a light blue tint. Other art in my living room not covered by museum glass, does not show these tints.

I don't know if this would appear on a computer display, but it may be something to be cautious about. You don't want a cure that is worse than the problem.
post #63 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingumikti View Post

I have two pieces of art covered with museum glass, each by a different framing company at a different time. It's expensive stuff but works well, as a number of posters have indicated. Under artificial light, it's perfect and disappears.

However, under certain light in my living room, mostly daylight, one of the museum glass pictures now has a light green tint, and the other has a light blue tint. Other art in my living room not covered by museum glass, does not show these tints.

I don't know if this would appear on a computer display, but it may be something to be cautious about. You don't want a cure that is worse than the problem.

Basically, the issue isn't just with the outer glass. Its the combination of the reflective outer glass and the reflective LCD. When light hits the front of the iMac, some light bounces off the outside, and most goes through. The light that then passes through the outer glass then hits the inner panel. Most is absorbed and some gets reflected. Both reflections are combined and you see 2x the reflection you would get from a normal LCD panel.

Assuming the glass and LCD panels each reflect about 7% of the light that hits them, both panels combined would reflect approximately 13.5% of all incoming light (considering that the inner panel received 7% less light than the outer panel). Of course I have no idea how reflective each of these materials are exactly however this demonstrates the issue.

This is why the iMac is so insanely glossy. Most LCD's don't have an outer glass. By having a separate outer glass panel you get almost 2X the reflection compared with a normal glossy LCD.

Museum glass would have a very low amount of reflection, but there is still going to be some, so effectively it would still be worse than having no glass.
post #64 of 69
Ah I just called Apple and you can buy the glass panel if you like for around 225AUS$.. although thats including labour... and another additional piece for 125$ if youd like... although they do say you lose your warranty... you could still just get it in some way or the other and then take it to a glazier and get it cut...
This seems like a good solution and im not worried about the protection of the lcd panel as its only me thats sitting on the desk and its in a safe area.. im just worried about dust getting in.. or anything else in relation to this matter... would this casue major problems over time?
post #65 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cswetta View Post

Ah I just called Apple and you can buy the glass panel if you like for around 225AUS$.. although thats including labour... and another additional piece for 125$ if youd like... although they do say you lose your warranty... you could still just get it in some way or the other and then take it to a glazier and get it cut...
This seems like a good solution and im not worried about the protection of the lcd panel as its only me thats sitting on the desk and its in a safe area.. im just worried about dust getting in.. or anything else in relation to this matter... would this casue major problems over time?

The LCD panel itself has a foam gasket that seals it against the glass. This keeps dust from getting between the glass and LCD, but if you cut the glass I believe it would also keep dust from getting into the computer. I'd put some kind of protective film on the screen though because it could scratch easily.
post #66 of 69
I've read all the comments on this thread and found it very interesting. I too hate the new mirror screens Apple is forcing us to use (if we want to stay within the Mac world). I have experimented with a number of possibilities including removing the front panel (which is not glass by the way, but some sort of acrylic material instead), which reduces the overall glare significantly (my guess by about 40%).

I have tried different films applied to the outside panel (terrible results with little improvement with low anti-glare films to awful red sparkles with the high anti-glare films (photodon films). I have tried applying the various films to the surface of the LCD itself. This has had better effects, and I settled on the MXH film from Photodon. This reduced glare slightly without any noticeable loss of graphic clarity. I would consider the higher rated MXT film if I had to do it over again. The red pixeling you see when film is applied to the outside panel does not exist with the MXH when applied to the LCD. I doubt even the MXT would be a problem if applied directly to the LCD itself. The film was much easier to apply than I suspected it would be and I completed the job w/o any bubbles at all.

I also had a piece of museum glass cut to size and replaced the front panel. I painted the outside edges black to cover up the hardware underneath, and are using it as I type this. From the outside it looks exactly like the original panel. The museum glass cuts down the reflection/glare by about 50% over the original Apple panel. I have contacted a fabricator to apply some metal strips on the glass to hold it tight in place and are confident it will be a very workable and attractive solution. Mind you, the film on the LCD and the museum glass in front together do not reduce reflection/glare to the level of our beloved matte screens, but it gets about half way there. I suspect it would achieve another 10% to 20% with a higher rated anti-glare film, but still not what Apple achieved with their old monitors.

Costs

The film from Photodon (which I had custom cut, and they did a great job) was about $45 or $50. The museum glass was about $125. The custom corner grinding was $15. I simply taped the glass once it was cut and shaped and spray painted the 1" outside edges with a black paint. I am still working to get some metal strips attached to the glass so that it is held firm. Overall, I expect to have some $275 to $300 invested in my new panel. It should be indistinguishable from the original once complete.

Overall, I'd say I've got about a 50% reduction in reflectivity and a 10% matte appearance on my monitor. If I had gone with the MXT film instead of the MXH, I think my overall performance would have been closer to 60% to 65% improvement.

I am also investigating other materials for the outside panel. Museum glass is good if you don't ship or move your machine much, but it would be a real breakage hazard if you did.

You can see my work and pictures at: http://www.photoworks.com/my-photowo...bums/104296917

kenh@advancedhealthgroup.com
post #67 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by HateMirrorScreens View Post

You can see my work and pictures at: http://www.photoworks.com/my-photowo...bums/104296917

The gallery seems to be behind a login. It would be very interesting to see the difference in glare, especially when the screen is showing black. If only Apple put as much effort into reducing the glare as you have.
post #68 of 69
Marvin,

Yes, sorry. Here is a link that should take you to the pictures. You can blow them up to full screen or leave them the way they are. Try this:

http://www.photoworks.com/slideshow/...CS_003=4433951

Ken
post #69 of 69
Cool product, thanks, about time someone came up with it. 1smile.gif

(wtf is wng with huddler and it won't display : ) smiley face?)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Matte iMac