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VMware releases Fusion 3 for Mac with full Windows 7 support - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by -AG- View Post

Well dont know about you guys but im thinking that this may finally shut all the "you cant play games on a mac" haters out there.

Because looking at what i have been able to gather so far it looks like this can be the best of both worlds.

i don't think the kind of people that complain about the lack of mac gaming are going to be happy with running them in fusion. hardcore gamers' main complaint is usually the lack of choice in high end graphics cards. that crowd isn't going to run windows in a virtual environment and shut up about it.
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by akf2000 View Post

Would love to see a review. I'm torn between bootcamp/ VM for Win 7.

You can use both. Install Windows using Boot Camp then restart into OS X, launch VMware and boot your Boot Camp partition in virtual mode.
post #43 of 68
This is good...now all we need is official boot camp support.
post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

If you are affiliated with a University or know anyone that is, you can get Windows 7 for about $30.

I think most Mac users are against Microsoft because 1) they steal most of their ideas from Apple, 2) used their monopoly power to unfairly compete, and 3) for the most part make crappy products.

Other then that, I use Microsoft Word and like it better then the alternatives. Running games through emulation ultimately hurts Mac development because it takes away incentive to develop for the platform.

True about the 30 dollar thing. I wish that was the price for everyone since it really is a fixed up Vista.

I already know why mac users are against MS. I hate MS too. I just find it funny that so many Mac switchers ALSO buy a full retail version of MS windows, when it costs more for them to do so than if they were to buy an equal quality PC. No Mac comes with Windows for free (though, that'd be awesome to see, but Apple would NEVER license it)

And yes, since there is BC and VMware/Box/Paralells, there is little incentive to write games for MAC. So the argument I responded to saying that "Finally Mac gets Games" or what have you is false since its still Windows. It is unlikely we'll see to much more in terms of mac gaming development (though I would like to see it just for competition sake, even more so some good titles on Linux!)
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post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by -AG- View Post

Well dont know about you guys but im thinking that this may finally shut all the "you cant play games on a mac" haters out there.

Because looking at what i have been able to gather so far it looks like this can be the best of both worlds.

Saying "you can't play games on a mac" isn't being a hater, It's just an opinion that is largely supported by the reality that virtually none of the premium game developers develop for the mac os. It's a shame, but its the truth. If you want to play the most current games, its console or windows. I love my mac - Unfortunately I can't game on it - so I also own a pc just for that purpose.

The virtual solutions, while great, won't get ya close. Bootcamp is the only way to go for anything but games that are 2 or 3 generations old. You'll need more than the nvidia 9400 as well.
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonMan View Post

DirectX 9 support does NOT mean "DirectX 9 Shader 3.0 support." That's what is needed to get full aero effects, for example. VirtualBox is fine for many people, but not all. And, it still doesn't support booting from a Boot Camp partition.


My bad about the DirectX 9 Shader Support...I didn't read your post carefully enough. Regarding booting from a Boot Camp partition, it is not "supported" but it can still be done pretty easily after a little work in terminal.
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

i don't think the kind of people that complain about the lack of mac gaming are going to be happy with running them in fusion. hardcore gamers' main complaint is usually the lack of choice in high end graphics cards. that crowd isn't going to run windows in a virtual environment and shut up about it.

Bioshock 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Portal 2, Half-Life 2 Ep. 3 are all coming up. I'd love to be able to enjoy them on my iMac, but since windows in bootcamp cant offer the graphics horsepower required and consoles don't offer a mouse/keyboard solution, I'm stuck buyin a new pc.
post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

... Running games through emulation ultimately hurts Mac development because it takes away incentive to develop for the platform.

Not sure how its hurting mac development - especially mac game development, which is virtually non-existant unless you count blizzard's lineup, casual games like the pop-cap stuff, and a small handful of really bad ports of 5 year old shooters like doom 3 and quake 4.

Game developers don't pay attention to the mac platform because of the size of the market and apple doesn't cater, or want to cater to the market for consumer priced gaming-capable hardware. The mac just isn't a very attractive platform for game developers who have to recoup the cost of increasingly high-budget cinematic games.
post #49 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

Game developers don't pay attention to the mac platform because of the size of the market and apple doesn't cater, or want to cater to the market for consumer priced gaming-capable hardware. The mac just isn't a very attractive platform for game developers who have to recoup the cost of increasingly high-budget cinematic games.

That could be a mistake on their part. Given the level of software piracy, isn't it possible that OS X versions (of good quality) of games could bring in the same revenues as the Windows versions?

Or is the level of piracy on Windows over stated?

It was my (unsupported) impression that Apple users were more likely to actually pay for the software they use.
post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Steuber View Post

That could be a mistake on their part. Given the level of software piracy, isn't it possible that OS X versions (of good quality) of games could bring in the same revenues as the Windows versions?

Or is the level of piracy on Windows over stated?

It was my (unsupported) impression that Apple users were more likely to actually pay for the software they use.

As said I think the problem is that Apple don't offer systems with as strong graphic cards as what you get if you buy (or build) a mid-tower PC. The only comparable option from Apple is the Mac Pro which is very expensive with its server class processors (Xeon) and memory (EEC).

Can someone please explain why Apple isn't offering a more affordable desktop? Or why they decided to go with Xeon processors etc. in the Mac Pro? What I hear the performance isn't exactly better compared to Intel's standard desktop processors. \

Another problem is of course that most Windows games uses Microsoft's DirectX to get the graphics on screen while Mac OS X uses OpenGL. It doesn't seem to be a super easy task to port a DirectX game to OpenGL.

While I'm at it where the heck is Unreal Tournament III for Mac OS X?
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdyates View Post

Bioshock 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Portal 2, Half-Life 2 Ep. 3 are all coming up. I'd love to be able to enjoy them on my iMac, but since windows in bootcamp cant offer the graphics horsepower required and consoles don't offer a mouse/keyboard solution, I'm stuck buyin a new pc.

If the Onlive idea takes off that could change.

As for consoles not offering a mouse/keyboard solution that is not true
Total time searching 1 minute via google (Console keyboard [name of console]):

Logitech Cordless Keyboard (Wii)
Any USB keyboard since update 3.1 (Wii)

Xbox 360 QWERTY thumb keyboard (since 2007) and the Brando adapter and XIM 2 which includes a mouse

Logitech Playstation 3 USB Keyboard

So ALL the current consoles have mouse/keyboard solutions

At Gamespot the number of Windows games now is on par with what Mac games were in the mid 1990s-very little selection and what is there is either very popular titles or very old ones. Even at Hastings and Walmart console games dominate. Best Buy seems to be the only place where PC games still are king but I can see even there their numbers slowly shrinking in comparison to consoles games.

I seriously think that PC gaming in general is dying and with the consoles able to use keyboards and mice i think gaming on a PC in general could be reduced to going through some Online like device with what is on the other end (console, PC, Mac) rendered moot with the occasional trek down Open Arena or Flash games.
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

If the Onlive idea takes off that could change.

As for consoles not offering a mouse/keyboard solution that is not true
Total time searching 1 minute via google (Console keyboard [name of console]):

Logitech Cordless Keyboard (Wii)
[URL="http://www.gamecheatslive.com/"]Any USB keyboard since update 3.1{/URL] (Wii)

Xbox 360 QWERTY thumb keyboard (since 2007) and the Brando adapter and XIM 2 which includes a mouse

Logitech Playstation 3 USB Keyboard

So ALL the current consoles have mouse/keyboard solutions

At Gamespot the number of Windows games now is on par with what Mac games were in the mid 1990s-very little selection and what is there is either very popular titles or very old ones. Even at Hastings and Walmart console games dominate. Best Buy seems to be the only place where PC games still are king but I can see even there their numbers slowly shrinking in comparison to consoles games.

I seriously think that PC gaming in general is dying and with the consoles able to use keyboards and mice i think gaming on a PC in general could be reduced to going through some Online like device with what is on the other end (console, PC, Mac) rendered moot with the occasional trek down Open Arena or Flash games.

Just because you can attach a mouse and keyboard to the console doesn't mean all games support them. In fact I'm quite sure they're just a select few.

I don't think that PC gaming will die in the near future. The graphics and processors always evolve faster. It's just to take a look at the games of today. The PC versions of the games support higher resolutions and anti-aliasing etc. etc.
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by -AG- View Post

Well dont know about you guys but im thinking that this may finally shut all the "you cant play games on a mac" haters out there.

Because looking at what i have been able to gather so far it looks like this can be the best of both worlds.

Ok let me clear this post up a little because it seems that a few people have taken it the wrong way.

The other night i had a discussion with a guy that is VERY pro PC. We both agreed that the future of gaming is console, so the high end market of gaming was pretty much covered. But then there was those games that we both used to love when we went to lans etc.

Such as Need For Speed Underground 2, Quake 3, Counterstrike, Command and Conquer etc etc.

For these "older generation" of games there were not too many ports to the mac OS. And running on emulation mode was a bitch to say the least.

His argument was that was the reason why you needed a PC to lan still, because you just cant game on a mac, never have been able too really.

Now i know this is not true and well quite frankly im not that fussed if you can or cant. The point i was trying to make was maybe now these people cant use that excuse as a reason to not justify a mac anymore.
Maybe they will just have to go back to making uneducated arguments about how there are no other Office Suites on mac OS that are as good as MSOffice or the likes.

EDIT: I also agree that Apple needs to incorporate better graphics cards into its product line and not just the Mac Pro. The 9400 is fine for most things but the 9600 isn't exactly a HUGE jump forward. We need something more in the "pro" laptop class that has some more balls, even if it means removing the DVD drive (nothing wrong with external, means the Blu-ray gang can finally stop bitching that way ) to make some more room for cooling.
post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyHoyle View Post

I can't even get that far.. apparently I have 'no eligible registered products' even though I have 2 registered copies of VMware fusion, and reregistering them does nothing.

Epic fail launch, really.. they should have at least made sure people could order the product.

I had this problem too. The site seems to be having major load problems with going thorught he process a luck of the draw and now I can't get logged in at all. Hopefully they get this all fixed before the 30 trial I got runs out.
post #55 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Migration over a wired GB network has failed every time.

How so?

Is your VMware Fusion "seeing" the target PC?

I have not done a migration in this manner, so I am blind to what you are seeing or experiencing. However, do you still have access to the VMware "Settings" tab on the Menu bar at the top of the screen? If so, try changing the Network setting to "Bridged". This feature caused some grief for me in my first early days of using Fusion. My Mac had full access to our network, but the VMware Windows system did not. At least, not until I switched the Network settings tab to Bridged.
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post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by akf2000 View Post

Would love to see a review. I'm torn between bootcamp/ VM for Win 7.

I don't your particular situation or needs, but for me, the VMware choice was easy. At "work", I am required to run Windows XP all damn day long. But, I still want and need access to all my Mac apps .

VMware Fusion allows me to do both at the same time. I'm running an early 2006 MPB 17 C2D 2.33GHz, with 4GBs RAM. I use one core for each system and spit the RAM 50/50. I still have the fastest Mac or PC in the office!
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post #57 of 68
When running Windows 7, the system can't find my network after Fusion 3 upgrade and Windows 7 install.

Mac runs fine, but no network for PC.

Upgraded from Vista, which worked fine (although sluggish).

Windows 7 runs faster but can't find the network.

Any suggestions are appreciated!

Alan
post #58 of 68
Upgraded to VMware 3.0 a few hours ago on my 1st-gen MacBook Air running Snow Leopard. I am seriously impressed with the upgrade. Version 2.06 under Snow Leopard introduced a few quirks which was enough for me to recommend other users to hold-off Snow Leopard until VMware resolves the issues.

Now with 3.0, not only are the quirks gone but the overall speed and system stability has greatly improved. This is an upgrade I highly recommend to anyone looking to use XP in a virtual environment. Way to go VMware!

I'll be installing Windows 7 in the next week or two just to see how that goes.
post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Yeah I don't think you will be playing those games with an HD 4670 gpu with on a 27" monitor with native resolution.

Right - I won't. You'd have to dial down the quality quite a bit. They would probably be playable, but I want to enjoy those games at 1080 at their full potential.
post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

If the Onlive idea takes off that could change.

As for consoles not offering a mouse/keyboard solution that is not true
Total time searching 1 minute via google (Console keyboard [name of console]):

Logitech Cordless Keyboard (Wii)
Any USB keyboard since update 3.1 (Wii)

Xbox 360 QWERTY thumb keyboard (since 2007) and the Brando adapter and XIM 2 which includes a mouse

Logitech Playstation 3 USB Keyboard

So ALL the current consoles have mouse/keyboard solutions

You're right, but you are still wrong.

You can attach a keyboard and mouse to the XBox via an $80 adapter. The Playstation 3 supports usb keyboard and mouse natively. In both cases The keyboard and mouse EMULATE a console controller, which is really no solution at all. There is a lot of latency and speed regulation and auto-aim silliness that goes on with a controller, and emulating that with a keyboard is not remotely the same as true keyboard/mouse control, which is much faster and more accurate. An example of the difference is: with pc shooters, auto-aim is considered cheating, but on a console, auto-aim is a necessity because you'd never hit anything otherwise.

There is one exception that I am aware of which is Unreal Tournament III, in which Epic built in support for mouse and keyboard for the PS3.

If you play online, the console people and the pc people are kept segregated because console players with thumbsticks can't compete reasonably with pc players using a keyboard and mouse. If Epic is letting PS3 people with true keyboard and mouse support on the same servers as those without, and not limiting their speed and accuracy then I'm betting the very average players using mice are mopping the floor with the expert players using console controllers - it's really that unbalanced.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

At Gamespot the number of Windows games now is on par with what Mac games were in the mid 1990s-very little selection and what is there is either very popular titles or very old ones. Even at Hastings and Walmart console games dominate. Best Buy seems to be the only place where PC games still are king but I can see even there their numbers slowly shrinking in comparison to consoles games.

I seriously think that PC gaming in general is dying and with the consoles able to use keyboards and mice i think gaming on a PC in general could be reduced to going through some Online like device with what is on the other end (console, PC, Mac) rendered moot with the occasional trek down Open Arena or Flash games.

I agree that console gaming is the way things are and have been going for a while, but there are still a LOT of good PC titles - some of the best I mentioned before. And don't leave out online distribution channels like Valve's STEAM and others, which distribute millions of copies of PC titles and for the gamers I know is their preferred method of acquiring the latest titles. I would expect the console community to keep moving toward a similar means of distribution.
post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

Just because you can attach a mouse and keyboard to the console doesn't mean all games support them. In fact I'm quite sure they're just a select few.

I am only aware of 1: UT3 for PS3. I don't think its even an option to support mouse/keyboard on the xbox. Also, I'm wondering if valve is letting them mix, or regulating the keyboard mouse ut3 players to "dumb them down" a bit so there isn't such an unfair advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

I don't think that PC gaming will die in the near future. The graphics and processors always evolve faster. It's just to take a look at the games of today. The PC versions of the games support higher resolutions and anti-aliasing etc. etc.

Yeah. For now, at least, the PC games on the high end are still the leading edge. PC hardware evolves more regularly even though when the latest consoles came out they leap-frogged the pc a little. The relentless march of cheap PC horsepower has passed them again :-)
post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

As said I think the problem is that Apple don't offer systems with as strong graphic cards as what you get if you buy (or build) a mid-tower PC. The only comparable option from Apple is the Mac Pro which is very expensive with its server class processors (Xeon) and memory (EEC).

Can someone please explain why Apple isn't offering a more affordable desktop? Or why they decided to go with Xeon processors etc. in the Mac Pro? What I hear the performance isn't exactly better compared to Intel's standard desktop processors. \

Another problem is of course that most Windows games uses Microsoft's DirectX to get the graphics on screen while Mac OS X uses OpenGL. It doesn't seem to be a super easy task to port a DirectX game to OpenGL.

While I'm at it where the heck is Unreal Tournament III for Mac OS X?

The affordable mid-tower - the mythical "xMac" has been talked to death, and I don't want to beat that horse any more. Although I'd buy one, the general consensus seems to be that Apple sees this as a commodity market that they don't want to be in.

The workstation class processors used in the mac pros were better when they came out, but the latest "standard" desktop processors from intel are probably better. The next mac pros will probably leap-frog them again.

Most of the best windows games support both DirectX and OpenGL, so I don't think that is too much of an issue.

UT3 for Mac? Epic sure as hell won't do it. Most of the titles you do see out there for Mac, like call of duty, unreal tournament 2004, Doom 3, Quake 4, Prey etc. were not released by the company that created them, but were ported by smaller shops. My understanding is that the ports of all these games fall way short compared to the windows versions.
post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanpgh@gmail.com View Post

When running Windows 7, the system can't find my network after Fusion 3 upgrade and Windows 7 install.

Mac runs fine, but no network for PC.

Upgraded from Vista, which worked fine (although sluggish).

Windows 7 runs faster but can't find the network.

Any suggestions are appreciated!

Alan

1. Chances are this is being caused by the Network setting in VMware Fusion. Your choices are NAT, Bridged or Host Only. Mine is set to Bridged on a LAN due to my need to connect to other Windows devices at my day job. However, your situation may be different.

2. Go to this website http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/vmware-fusion-3 , and download the free ebook "Take Control of VMware Fusion 3".

3. Read pages 82-84 for additional details on the differences in network settings.

4. Good luck and let us know if any of this helps.
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post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Upgraded to VMware 3.0 a few hours ago on my 1st-gen MacBook Air running Snow Leopard. I am seriously impressed with the upgrade. Version 2.06 under Snow Leopard introduced a few quirks which was enough for me to recommend other users to hold-off Snow Leopard until VMware resolves the issues.

Now with 3.0, not only are the quirks gone but the overall speed and system stability has greatly improved. This is an upgrade I highly recommend to anyone looking to use XP in a virtual environment. Way to go VMware!

I'll be installing Windows 7 in the next week or two just to see how that goes.

Couldn't agree me with the kudos to VMware. Somebody finally got it right.
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post #65 of 68
I bought this for £30 yesterday (online through their academic store as I am studying) and it is really good.

However - when I go to About this mac>more info>applications it does not say that it's 64 bit. Doesn't really matter to me as it's fast enough but it's advertised as 64bit if i'm correct?
post #66 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked666 View Post

However - when I go to About this mac>more info>applications it does not say that it's 64 bit. Doesn't really matter to me as it's fast enough but it's advertised as 64bit if i'm correct?

VMware consists of two different components:

1) The management GUI, which is 32-bit
2) The actual runtime, which is (supposedly) 64-bit.

Chances are, you're seeing the management GUI, since the actual runtime isn't visible as an application from outside the management GUI. You can validate this by going into the process monitor when you have VMware fired up and seeing if a 64-bit VMware process shows up.
post #67 of 68
Wow - I installed this yesterday and it is amazing. I can now play Civilization IV (PC version) in a Windows 7 x64 VM.

It will look extra good on the new 27" iMac, with all that real estate for having PC and Mac programs on the screen at the same time. Good job VMWare guys.
post #68 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by -AG- View Post

Ok let me clear this post up a little because it seems that a few people have taken it the wrong way.

The other night i had a discussion with a guy that is VERY pro PC. We both agreed that the future of gaming is console, so the high end market of gaming was pretty much covered. But then there was those games that we both used to love when we went to lans etc.

Such as Need For Speed Underground 2, Quake 3, Counterstrike, Command and Conquer etc etc.

For these "older generation" of games there were not too many ports to the mac OS. And running on emulation mode was a bitch to say the least

Sure porting 68000 and later PowerPC machines was a bear and emulation was at best slow (Boch on the Mac in those days was said to have to have 'all the speed of a dying dog taking his last dump' and that was an accurate description) but the Intel mac changed all that when it came out in 2006.

However even in those days there were efforts made in the OpenSource community:
Command & Conquer (1995) came to the Mac as FreeCNC in 2002.
Quake 3 (1999) came to the the Mac in the form of OpenArena in 2005
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