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Apple retail stores to upgrade from Windows-based EasyPay to iPod touch - Page 3

post #81 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Really, then why did the rest of the world have it from the release while AT&T customer's waited months. To be fair, you're completely mistaken.

That is only with v3.0, but the reason for including MMS in v1.x or 2.x to the non-AT&T carriers does look to be Apples fault. It certainly doesnt seem technical.

Of course, we have no idea what silliness was in the initial contract between AT&T and Apple that reportedly was for 2 years. MMS did appear in v3.0 right after that speculated timeframe would have ended. Maybe there was some wonky wording that kept Apple from offering features to other carriers that AT&T couldnt match.
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post #82 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is the most ridiculous comment I've read in a while.

I disagree.

Enough is enough! Any further discussion in this thread of teckstud's posting habits will be deleted. Please stick to the topic at hand.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #83 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You know, you're statements are just becoming more unbelievable as time goes on. I've had problems with sales people using these for some time. When we got our iPhones September 2008, the device our sales person had kept screwing up. It got so bad, the we had to use my wife's credit card and name instead of mine, because after breaking down the third time, it wouldn't allow mine to be entered again. She ended having to go to the back, where they fixed the problems before we could finish our transaction. I'm not alone in this.

I'm not sure how you can say this, I likewise have made several purchases in our local Apple store without issue. As to implementation of new technology for the most part it is up to the application software to work correctly. My problem with a transition, By Apple around this time of the year is that Apple is not invincible when it comes to software apps. That is if Apple is doing the software internally, who knows what a third parties track record is.
Quote:

With a simple transaction it does better.

But we've been hearing about problems with these since the beginning. Other stores that use them have problems as well. It's old technology, and CE is not the most reliable OS. PDa's using it used to crash all the time, and Win Mobile, which is based on it is no better, as it crashes all the time as well.

I'm not sure where the idea that CE isn't reliable comes from. It is used extensively in industrial applications. It certainly isn't perfect but what OS is?

The thing here is you are blaming the terminal running CE for performance problems when you have no way to know where the problem is. It could be CE but just as easily issues with the app running on the device, Apples backend servers, the credit card company or for the iPhones AT&T.

Dave
post #84 of 117
Verizon needs to score the iPhone like no tomorrow, because an AT&T Wireless iPhone Credit Card Terminal can take out a Verizon Wireless and a Verizon Landline contract in one shot.

Windows CE and plenty of specialized credit card terminal technology and devices are going to lose marketshare to Apple.

Take a look at Red Laser in the app store for a demo of how obsolete so many specialized companies are going to be in the next few months.
post #85 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Cool. I predicted they would land before this holiday season. I was running out of time. Anyone know

The company who makes the CC scanner connected to the device and is it available for sale?
If it IR or a camera for the barcode (or chosen manually)?
Who makes the software and if its available on the App Store yet?


Actually these are good questions as I would like to see an expansion of compatible hardware.
Quote:

I never understood the humour of Apple using a Motorola PoS device that happens to use WinCE for the OS. Apple didnt have a mobile OS or mobile device until well after these were in play. Apple also doesnt make PoS devices. If this is funny then why is not funny that Apple make software for Windows and MS makes software for OS X? I just dont get it.

I don't get it either. it is rather sad to blame the device when you really don't know where the defects are. It easy to sit there and have a laugh with the sales rep over a software issue, but that fault could be happening any where in the stack of apps making up Apples retail system.
Quote:

Also, are the issue with the SYmbol devices from the OS, the app or the HW.

PS: Ireland might disagree that Apples devices will stay connected to WiFI better than the Symbol devices

I don't know about Ireland but having worked with a wide range of bar code hardware in an industrial setting I have to say that the hardware is seldom the problem. Software on the other hand is, especially in a corporate manufacturing/warehousing situation where there is never enough time. Since I work with everything from bar code reading equipment to heavy industrial machines running CE I just can support the negativity here with respect to Win CE. The thing is you need to put blame where it belongs, and I'm not sure people here are placing that blame properly.
Quote:

Look who you are referring to. He claims their mission statement every week. You cant expect anything close to a balanced, adult answer. How old is there mission statement from last revision? More than 20 years?

Ive had good results and Ive had bad results. Mostly good. Putting the OS used aside, the devices do stand out among the rest of the store.

Would a cash register from NCR stand out too?
Quote:
Those devices seem troublesome enough that if the Touches work out okay in testing it will easy for Apple to have plenty of these devices to use for the rush. If they are faster that means increased sales during busy periods. They can always fall back to the Symbol devices if need be.

Well we can hope so. I'm just thinking from a conservative standpoint here.


Dave
post #86 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Out of curiosity, what is that software?

If you must know, SDC Platinum, SPSS (the latest version), and being able to access some specialized library software where I work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

And in an honest reply, was the purchase of XP worth it to you for that software in hindsight?

(I'll ignore the insulting part of your question: FYI, I always try to be honest). Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I've not run into any one who buys windows for that PC-only program, so I'm curious. Most I see get it so they can use MS Office, which they can get for the Mac.

The fact that you've not run into anyone that buys PC software for other than MS Office says diddley-squat. You should not generalize based on your experience.
post #87 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Don't laugh- It's taken Apple 5 years to get their own?

You mean, It's taken Apple 5 years to get it done right the first time!

Quote:
Who knew Microsoft was such an innovator?

Yeah, it's been real busy innovating with Vista and OS 7 (the corrected Vista) and Zune. And how many years from Windows 95 (the last OS worth a damn, at least to those that felt no need to advance any further to a new MS OS) to Windows 7?...

Hhmmm... 95... to 7... sound like a countdown to detonation, ruination and damnation!

Five, ive, ive, ive; Four, or, or, or; Three, ree, ree, ree, Two, woo, woo, woo, One! I would make some big explosion type sound here, but we're talking Microsoft, so we know it'll just fizzle out like the duds we've come to know and love and playfully ridicule every now and then!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #88 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've had problems with sales people using these for some time. When we got our iPhones September 2008, the device our sales person had kept screwing up. It got so bad, the we had to use my wife's credit card and name instead of mine, because after breaking down the third time, it wouldn't allow mine to be entered again. She ended having to go to the back, where they fixed the problems before we could finish our transaction. I'm not alone in this.

No your not. In fact, I just walk to the permanent terminal that's at the end of the Genius bar whenever I need something - I don't bother trying to track down a roamer. In addition to the large theater in the back, one of my favorite features of the Tyson's Corner Apple Store in Northern VA is the permanent cash register island.
post #89 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I agree that it's a joke. I don't think it's a very good one though, and I think it's out of place in a relatively serious article.

I thought when I read it in the article that it really shouldn't have been there. This is the problem with the articles by Prince and David. A perfectly good article will be made controversial because of some off the cuff digs at MS or others that they can't seem to refrain from making.

But, still it was a joke, and I'm surprised that Techstud couldn't see that, or that some others couldn't see that.
post #90 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Got a link for info on that?

Sure. I'm using the beta hardware right now, which they gave me to test at the AES convention a short while ago.

http://studiosixdigital.com/

Let me know what you think.
post #91 of 117
It's about time. In fact, when they first rolled out these WinCE devices at the Apple stores, I thought "too bad the Newton got Steved" or they would have had a mobile platform to run their own solution. When the iPhone came out, I immediately thought they should work on a POS system for it. And now here we are, and of course the Touch is an even better fit for the Apple store environment.

Having experienced both functional and dysfunctional transactions at Apple stores, I'm encouraged with this news of switching to their own devices. I hope they work well. I'm not so sure it's a good idea to switch right before the year's biggest shopping season, but I can't imagine even an unproven iPod solution would be any worse.

As for the shirts, I'm glad they're ditching the many colors. I could probably stand around for a while trying to figure out which color I'm supposed to talk to for the given issue, but I just don't care - I just want assistance when I walk into the store, so I talk to the first employee I see regardless of which color they're wearing. Good riddance to the rainbow of shirts.

post #92 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'm not sure how you can say this, I likewise have made several purchases in our local Apple store without issue. As to implementation of new technology for the most part it is up to the application software to work correctly. My problem with a transition, By Apple around this time of the year is that Apple is not invincible when it comes to software apps. That is if Apple is doing the software internally, who knows what a third parties track record is.

I can say it from experience. I'm far from the only one. It's been reported upon in the NY Times and other papers as well.

Quote:
I'm not sure where the idea that CE isn't reliable comes from. It is used extensively in industrial applications. It certainly isn't perfect but what OS is?

It's never been reliable. MS does offer stripped down versions for embedded use that are not really CE as most people think of it. Cutting out most of the consumer features and just leaving the simple realtime core helps.

Quote:
The thing here is you are blaming the terminal running CE for performance problems when you have no way to know where the problem is. It could be CE but just as easily issues with the app running on the device, Apples backend servers, the credit card company or for the iPhones AT&T.

Dave

Seems to be the device itself from what I've read.

We'll see when Apple has their own. If most of the problems go away, then we'll know it was the device. If they don't, then we'll know the problem is elsewhere.

If it's out for the holidays, we'll know shortly.
post #93 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

No your not. In fact, I just walk to the permanent terminal that's at the end of the Genius bar whenever I need something - I don't bother trying to track down a roamer. In addition to the large theater in the back, one of my favorite features of the Tyson's Corner Apple Store in Northern VA is the permanent cash register island.

We didn't "track down" anyone. We stood in line with all the other peasants, some from other countries. When our names were called as next in line, we went with the person assigned to us to buy our phones. We had no choice as to where we could go.

The times I've used a salesperson out of line, or from when I actually was in line, that person came to us, and asked what we were buying. he or she said that they could take care of it, and so we let them.

Stop making assumptions.
post #94 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

The times I've had problems with Windows, the fix was usually quite simple. The times I've had problems with Mac OS X, the fix usually included command line stuff (not as simple). Mind you, Windows has more minor problems than the number of Major problems on the mac, making it so it was really just a wash of which one was easier to maintain. The mac would perform without problems longer, but when they happen, it was usually catastrophic.

I don't recall ever having to go to terminal to repair a Mac. I'm sure it's fewer than the times I've had to go to regedit, though thankfully that was rare.
post #95 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Actually, this sounds like really poorly written POS software. Blame them first.

That is true, however, it is a big company, they have good support, if by it costing $130 an hour.

But, again, that's why I called it pos POS software.
post #96 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Seems to be the device itself from what I've read.

Unless the build quality has changed under Motorola, the Symbol devices always worked really well (unless the user was not so kind to it)
post #97 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Unless the build quality has changed under Motorola, the Symbol devices always worked really well (unless the user was not so kind to it)

When I say "device" I mean the entire thing, hardware and software.

Exactly where the problems are from, I don't know, but would assume that most of it is from the software.

Though our sales person said that they did lose connectivity at times.

That could be simply because it's being used in an electronic environment with a strong wireless signal. My portable home phone has the same problem in my computer room. It loses the signal shortly after crossing the threshold.
post #98 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockpop View Post

yeah, Apple is such an amateur retailer. Perhaps you can straighten them out. I'm sure any sort of early adopter problems will pale compared to the trash that is Windows CE.

I mean really, saying Apple will have transition problems moving from Windows CE is about as hilariously retarded as anything coming out of techsnuff.

While this isn't a retail issue, when Apple rolled out MobileMe, that didn't go so well - I would say it's not the wisest time to try your dogfood around the busiest shopping season of the year, but perhaps Apple did their testing this time.
post #99 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post

Hopefully Apple will make a product out of this for small retailers.

It would make a great package with the Mac mini Server.

My prediction: The next chain store to feature the new Apple retail order system will be the updated, all-new Disney Stores.

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post #100 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is only with v3.0, but the reason for including MMS in v1.x or 2.x to the non-AT&T carriers does look to be Apples fault. It certainly doesnt seem technical.

In the context of the comment I was replying to, and the specific reference to "a later firmware", he was either referring to a 3.x related firmware update, that wasn't available at the release of 3.0 as having been needed for AT&T to enable MMS, or had no idea what he was talking about, which is entirely possible. But, no, clearly the MMS issue was never a technical issue for Apple.
post #101 of 117
Any information on the specific hardware and software chosen? Is it Apple developed or third party?
post #102 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't recall ever having to go to terminal to repair a Mac. I'm sure it's fewer than the times I've had to go to regedit, though thankfully that was rare.

There's almost always a non-command line way to do stuff, but if you have some problem and search for a solution, you may find something that tells you to open terminal and do something like, "defaults write ...", which is quick and effective, but not always the only way to do it.
post #103 of 117
"Apple will move to iPod touch EasyPay devices across the board for the holiday season"

Does this mean Apple will be using Touches as clients to the same EasyPay back end they already have? That could be good or bad.
Good: All the reporting, accounting, and "to home" interfaces stay the same, making this transition much cheaper.
Bad: EasyPay may be a pile of crap. Some of the problems could be in the way the software is designed. Changing the client won't fix that.

And I think using Touches is a great idea. Customers walk in the store and encounter Apple employees using Apple products. Apple, Apple, Apple wall to wall.

- Jasen.
post #104 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pageconsuiphone View Post

Why did apple wait this long? I mean they even commercialized this credit card terminal app on their national iphone commercial. Here are some of these solutions currently available on the app store today: ...

Well, I believe they only added support for connecting hardware devices in OS 3.0, and the software they will be running on the Touches is probably custom and may only have been a part of what they had to develop, since we don't know how much of the interfaces with other systems they kept or ripped out and rewrote, or at least updated.

So, not really that long from the point where they could do this to the rollout. But, it's great marketing to have them using their own hardware for this, and was a bit of an embarrassment for them not to have been.
post #105 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pageconsuiphone View Post

Why did apple wait this long? I mean they even commercialized this credit card terminal app on their national iphone commercial. Here are some of these solutions currently available on the app store today:

They probably wanted a mag stripe reader and bar code scanner, among other things.

I don't think the merchant account is the hold-up. They probably wanted a stripe reader for speed and transaction cost reasons. Using a stripe reader costs less per transaction because there is less risk of fraud.

Also, they probably wanted a hardware module to read bar codes to fill in prices and item types, and after a sale, automatically deduct the sale from inventory. I'm sure there is more to it than that too.
post #106 of 117
"...for the 2009 holiday season"

Given this is expected to be one of Apple's biggest ever holiday seasons, is this really the time to go live with a new system? Remember MobileMe? Are we learning yet?

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post #107 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

"...for the 2009 holiday season"

Given this is expected to be one of Apple's biggest ever holiday seasons, is this really the time to go live with a new system? Remember MobileMe? Are we learning yet?

This is nothing like the MobileMe release. The problem with MobileMe was the free access to sign up and test it along with the iPhone release and Apple Stores pushing the purchase of it. They should have done a staggered release with current iMac members and made MobileMe free period after you put in your CC info, like they do now.

Theyre already testing it in a store and can stagger the release in any other store along with the Symbol devices. They can even have all those Symbol devices waiting in the wings even after they change up to Touches, just in case something goes wrong.

Its not a one-or-the-other situation here. There is nothing to lose and a lot to gain from faster checkouts this holiday season.
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post #108 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Mul n, but the different uniform colors were found to be more confusing than helpful to customers. Apple will return to using a single shirt color for all store employees, which will change over time. The site also confirms that Apple will move to iPod touch EasyPay devices across the board for the holiday season.

i love the hand held
i can name countless times i ran in to the soho/57st or staten island apple stores grabbed a mac or device and corralled a dude with a hand held
swiped
email receipt
and out the door
minutes
for a new yorker under stress its a godsend
and i CAN'T SEE WHy it matters who wrote the SW or if there now using the touch or why the fights broke out w/ a ban ??

,,,i pm ed the mods the balance of this post they can put it up here or not since MR H WANTS IT TO BE OVER . A
i mean great upgrade
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post #109 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

....It seems stupid to begin with, honestly. Just get a normal POS if they are that much trouble. In an effort to look cool and hip, they carry around these portable POS machines, but in the end they just waste people's time. ...

Honestly, if they were as bad as this article makes it sound, why on earth would Apple use them in the first place? The irony is hilarious. Bitch about Windows and MS and their crap software, but use their products in all the stores.

The reason for the handheld POS terminals is so that the store doesn't have long checkout lines, and so that the customer can proceed directly from the interaction with the staff member to purchase without any reason or opportunity to leave the store (that is, failure to convert a prospect to a sale). Make it easy to buy, and people will buy. Haven't you ever been in a store, with a product in your hand, thinking: "will someone just take my money and let me get out of here?"

Well, at an Apple store, someone will.

And the POS terminals they have are an embarrassment - I've had them fail (require data re-entry, re-scan, etc.) when I've been buying something at least half the time. Yes, it's ironic, but in kind of a funny way - "look what happens when you have to use Windows to do your job."
post #110 of 117
Perhaps Apple will sell their POS iPodTouch devices to MicroSoft to use in THEIR new stores???
post #111 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Honestly, if they were as bad as this article makes it sound, why on earth would Apple use them in the first place? The irony is hilarious. Bitch about Windows and MS and their crap software, but use their products in all the stores.

The problems were there, but you're right, the article seems to exaggerate the problems. I don't remember many problems, but I only had five transactions, and I didn't buy my phone through the Apple store.
post #112 of 117
The reason why Apple has been using these despite the problems, is that they still offer an advantage to Apple and its customers. Even with the problems, its still faster to pull customers off the line, or encounter them in the store with package in hand and check them out, even if a certain percent of the time they have to redo it.

While we didn't have POS devices in my company because we weren't that type of business, my lab did use credit card terminals.

Oh yes, we did have problems with them. Errors in reading cards, errors in transaction approvals etc. But we didn't think to go to another company, because from feedback from other companies, they ALL had these problems.

Apple is in the same boat. It's very likely that all of the systems out there have similar problems. some due to hardware, some due to software, some due to both. This isn't new technology, and the handsets haven't been changed in years.

Hopefully, Apple's own hardware and OS will be better. At least, it shouldn't be worse. I would imagine that tests in Apple's own store are going well, otherwise they wouldn't be bringing it out during the busiest season, though I would expect a few hiccups.
post #113 of 117
To me the hand-held POS system is simply using the divide and conquer technique to reduce lines and customer waiting time. It makes perfect sense to me, and I don't think Apple uses this method to be cool.
It also makes sense that Apple would want to use its own products instead of competitors.
Also, I can count just one or two times where I had problems due to the POS checking out.
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post #114 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

I wonder if the form factor of the touch will be an issue. I find the touch to be a bit hard to hold, and would probably really dislike holding it for hours at a time

I wonder if th touch plus peripheral could be a prototype for a new piece of hardware. There is lots of need for portable systems like the SYMBOL. An ipod touch with built in bar scanner and card swiper could be huge for all kinds of retail and data-collection operations.
post #115 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by springerj View Post

I wonder if th touch plus peripheral could be a prototype for a new piece of hardware. There is lots of need for portable systems like the SYMBOL. An ipod touch with built in bar scanner and card swiper could be huge for all kinds of retail and data-collection operations.

It is a big market to breaking into, and of course, if I remember correctly, Symbol (or Motorola now I suppose) own most of the patents for bar code scanning. And one of the reason a lot of the existing solutions cost a little more is due to how rugged they are
post #116 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is the most ridiculous comment I've read in a while.

You either don't know teckstud or you don't read the forum much. I'm tempted to assume that "technohermit" is just "teckstud" and you got out a dictionary and used a grammar checker on this post so as to make it look like your a normal intelligent writer instead of the usual drivel we get from the "teckstud" personna.

It's especially unbelievable that you confabulate the bias that Prince shows with "errors," when actually, that's the real difference between the two. Both are biased, but if you actually take the time to do the fact checking you will find that Prince is technically right the majority of the time even when he's playing fast and loose with the language. "teckstud" can hardly write a legible sentence, is dead wrong on the facts 80 to 90 percent of the time, and hardly ever even presents "facts" but rather engages in character assassination, bad childish jokes etc.

I'm not going to try to defend the bias that Prince McClean shows, but he does huge amounts of research and has a very good understanding of the industry and the history of it. teckstud is just some yahoo shouting from the sidelines and saying "oh yeah?!" half the time. He has shown absolutely no knowledge at all of any of the topics on which he pronounces daily.

I'm a little late in replying to this, but you seem to miss an important difference there. Prince writes articles, and teckstud is just some dude with opinions. News articles should be unbiased, factual reports. The comments below them are where the bias and opinions belong.
Saying that Prince is prone to error is an accurate assessment , and 80% isn't good enough for a reporter, sorry. Just because the bar gets continuously lower doesn't make it ok.

The main point there is that AppleInsider will never be legitimate for a source of news, even though they try to walk that line sometimes. Much like Fox, they relegate themselves to the category of "commentators" so they can bend the truth, submit outright lies, claim journalistic impunity when it suits them, etc. For this site, that might seem ok, but macroscopically news media sucks when it's portrayed subjectively. Of course, these are my opinions, and you have yours.

Please don't compare my posts with teckstud's again, either. It's unwarranted, you can just search my post history to see that. My defense of him in this case doesn't require you to infer I'm him. Frankly, it's insulting
post #117 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

I'm a little late in replying to this, but you seem to miss an important difference there. Prince writes articles, and teckstud is just some dude with opinions. News articles should be unbiased, factual reports. The comments below them are where the bias and opinions belong.
Saying that Prince is prone to error is an accurate assessment , and 80% isn't good enough for a reporter, sorry. Just because the bar gets continuously lower doesn't make it ok.

I agree, people that try to present themselves as a somewhat professional journalist or even a commentator should at least get their facts right and use the best, most unambiguous grammar possible. I don't hold random people with opinions to the same standard, though I do wish they try to get their facts right. But I don't expect the same level of quality from both a pro and the lay public.
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