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Mac OS X 10.6.2 to update nearly 150 Snow Leopard components - Page 2

post #41 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCrazy View Post

It is a really bad bug and completely unacceptable. It's worrying that there's still no fix for it to be honest.

I'm not worried in the slightest. Turn it of and quit worrying about it. Apple has actually acknowledged this bug. They will issue a fix. I have no doubt.
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post #42 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I've actually been a little disapointed with Snow Leopard. Whilst things for me have not been as bad as the first poster suggests, there have been issues. I had bother with my printer, Safari crashes quite a lot, I get the beachball quite a bit when I open new Finder windows. I've not seen the guest account/deleted data issue, but it's a concern to me.

It's nothing that bad to be honest, and I'm prepared to put up with a few glitches in the early days of a new OS, especially when so much of the code has been re-written.

I do think that the release of Leopard was better though. That was the first upgrade of a Mac operating system I'd ever done, and I'm still amazed at how smooth the install went and how stable everything was.

Apple are in the odd position now that they have set the bar so high, a slight slip-up is news.....

Did you do a clean install? have you deleted all the contents of your preferences and cache directory (Inside your user library directory), logged out then logged in?

Please, don't speak about things unless you know what you're talking about; you're starting to sound like a fox viewer thinking he is an expert on economics.
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post #43 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetang View Post

From the first Mac OS X....

You notice improvement and enhancement.... So far Leopard is the best, and Snow Leopard sucks...

Crash all the time, and make everything else crash...

And has become like Microsoft Windows, whopping tons of memory for nothing....

Worst OS by far....

Leopard is the best....

They said the same thing about Tiger when Leopard was released. Give it a few months. SL will be the best ever, for sure.
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post #44 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:45pm
Service Pack 2 already?
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post #45 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:46pm
I'm mainly annoyed by Mail randomly duplicating hundreds of messages every few days. I too hope "no known issues" means they've resolved this major inconvenience.

I also tried to restore a contact that somehow was deleted from Address Book and wasn't able to find it because Time Machine mysteriously had no Address Book contacts before sometime in late August, despite the fact that I've been using the same Time Capsule with the same iMac every day since April! The only thing that's changed about my system is the upgrade to SL.

Other than those two issues (and only the one with Mail is of any real consequence to me), I'm greatly impressed with SL. I think it's the most feature-rich and stable Mac OS to date.

"Be aware of wonder." ~ Robert Fulghum

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"Be aware of wonder." ~ Robert Fulghum

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post #46 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I'm not worried in the slightest. Turn it of and quit worrying about it. Apple has actually acknowledged this bug. They will issue a fix. I have no doubt.

I'm not worried about it, but I wasn't one of the users who lost all their data after using a guest account. I have a friend whose TimeMachine backups have stopped working after installing 10.6. If he had used the guest account he would be screwed. But yes, I have turned it off!
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post #47 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:51pm
I think SL's initial bugs are consistent with all OSX releases - remember how bad jag was? Also I was forced to try out Leopard with my new machine and it had many issues until things started settling down at 10.5.3

Lets face it - Apple doesn't test their Software well and relies on us early adopters to shake it out. Microsoft got bit badly by this with Vista which is why they released the public beta for windows 7 almost a year early. In this era of people being less patient with computer woes (i.e. the new OS is supposed to be better than the old), I think apple needs to change their strategy and do public betas at least 6 months before formal releases. The old - expecting us to deal with buggy software - days are becoming real old fast.

I just bought SL for 5 macs but am waiting until 10.6.3 or 10.6.4 to install it - I just can't afford the productivity hit to use beta software...

oh and replying to another thread - yes Time Machine needs some scheduling options - I had to do the manual edit to make it only backup every 4 hours because of the constant slowdown

finally - I know there is macfixit out there, but I think it would be helpful if appleinsider made a user friendly bugs and feature request page to easier help the apple community
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post #48 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaCameron View Post

I'm mainly annoyed by Mail randomly duplicating hundreds of messages every few days. I too hope "no known issues" means they've resolved this major inconvenience.

I also tried to restore a contact that somehow was deleted from Address Book and wasn't able to find it because Time Machine mysteriously had no Address Book contacts before sometime in late August, despite the fact that I've been using the same Time Capsule with the same iMac every day since April! The only thing that's changed about my system is the upgrade to SL.

Other than those two issues (and only the one with Mail is of any real consequence to me), I'm greatly impressed with SL. I think it's the most feature-rich and stable Mac OS to date.

That jarred a memory loose. I remember seeing a backup of the book after upgrading. Check the forums. I think the old address book is renamed and a new one established with the old one's data after upgrading. It's possible your old book is still there, just with a different name.
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post #49 of 169
10/28/09 at 4:59pm
I sure as hell hope they fix Preview. It is so totally hosed in Snow Leopard.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #50 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

That jarred a memory loose. I remember seeing a backup of the book after upgrading. Check the forums. I think the old address book is renamed and a new one established with the old one's data after upgrading. It's possible your old book is still there, just with a different name.

Thanks, I'll check around.

"Be aware of wonder." ~ Robert Fulghum

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"Be aware of wonder." ~ Robert Fulghum

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post #51 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:09pm
I just wish I could get rid of the crummy white borders that Aperture, Preview, Screen Capture, et. al., puts around icons.
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post #52 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You do realize that backups are also for hardware failure? More so than any simple OS crash. It's foolish to think you don't need a backup.

I back up all my files on DVDs- I find them to be more durable than any perpetually spinning device. I have separate DVDs for my iTunes music, videos, pictures, etc. It takes many DVDs however to back just my music for example. Hopefully this may change as I hear rumours on other websites that Blu-ray may soon be built into Snow Leopard's components. I have never had a Mac fail in itself.
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post #53 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy View Post

Did you do a clean install? have you deleted all the contents of your preferences and cache directory (Inside your user library directory), logged out then logged in?

Please, don't speak about things unless you know what you're talking about; you're starting to sound like a fox viewer thinking he is an expert on economics.

I didn't think I was claiming to be an expert, just telling you what my experience has been and to be honest, I don't appreciate the tone of your comment.

As for my install, the documentation didn't suggest I needed to do a clean install (wouldn't know how to). I've not deleted anything in my cache directory (don't know what it is).

The thing you need to realize is that those of us who don't necessarily "know what we are talking about" are probably the bulk of computer users.
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post #54 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I'm not worried in the slightest. Turn it of and quit worrying about it. Apple has actually acknowledged this bug. They will issue a fix. I have no doubt.

The thing is, I did use the guest account since I found it pretty useful when I have visitors. I actually have turned it off for now, but surely you can acknowledge that the existence of a bug that could lose you all your data is a pretty big one. If Microsoft had a bug like this, everyone on this board would be up in arms!
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post #55 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetang View Post

From the first Mac OS X....

You notice improvement and enhancement.... So far Leopard is the best, and Snow Leopard sucks...

Crash all the time, and make everything else crash...

And has become like Microsoft Windows, whopping tons of memory for nothing....

Worst OS by far....

Leopard is the best....

It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools. I've had no problems with Snow
installation or what so ever with my iMac 2.4. I say it's pilot errors, yours.
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post #56 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkoolaid View Post

I back up all my files on DVDs- I find them to be more durable than any perpetually spinning device. I have separate DVDs for my iTunes music, videos, pictures, etc. It takes many DVDs however to back just my music for example. Hopefully this may change as I hear rumours on other websites that Blu-ray may soon be built into Snow Leopard's components. I have never had a Mac fail in itself.

Yeah and I used to put all my data in manila forders in a filing cabinet.
Does SSD say anything to you.
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post #57 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:46pm
I didn't do a clean install of SL either. I wanted to try it out for a bit. Just laziness. And my experience is similar to others who have been performing quick and easy upgrades. No appreciable speed increases that I can feel. In fact, Expose has an odd delay every time I activate it that makes it seem a lot slower. Mail has issues. Safari can take my 4GB iMac down to nothing if I surf over a few days.

After a clean install, I'll be interested to see what improves. I love SL and can't wait to put it through its paces with my coming 27" quad cpu.
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post #58 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:48pm
What is this mythical beast called a "clean install," and what does it do that a regular install does not?
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #59 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetang View Post

Migrating from 10.4 to 10.5 was smooth like butter....

Nothing crash as often as I am today with 10.6....

Personally, working in IT, your problems all point to user error.
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post #60 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I'm not beta testing any more OS X builds without getting paid for it.

Updates to 150 components? Apple is off it's rocker, call the medics.


All Apple has to do is get a fleet of volunteers to beta test the new OS before release, it's been impossible to keep it under wraps anyway, so what's the problem?

Give a full version for compensation of reports etc. A mere $30, big deal.

I can just imagine all the support calls Apple is generating and the damage done to "It just works". thats costing Apple plenty.


MS has had public betas of it's OS's for years. with Vista and 7 anyone could download the beta. 7 is pretty good so far but with Vista they literally rewrote the entire kernel between service packs and broke a lot of software compatibility that was supposed to be compatible with Vista
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post #61 of 169
10/28/09 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

What is this mythical beast called a "clean install," and what does it do that a regular install does not?

erm, its when you boot from the install DVD and then after booting you select the Disk Util from the tools menu and erase your hard drive prior to installing the OS. (of course you may wish to back all your documents and personal files before doing this)

What does it do that a regular install does not?

Well, for starters it only installs the OS. It doesn't have to deal with any pre-existing software on your system and is the best way to 'fix' a troublesome installation.

Once the install has completed you can then restore your documents etc and reinstall any other applications you have.
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post #62 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

What is this mythical beast called a "clean install," and what does it do that a regular install does not?

A "clean install" erases one's boot drive and installs the OS from scratch, instead of upgrading on top of the previous OS.

What it does is it gives a "want-to-be-know-it-all" a term with which he can try to sound like he knows more than the next person. Some "want-to-be-know-it-alls" will answer a question about a problem with an OS upgrade problem by giving the excuse, "well, if you didn't do a clean install, you were just asking for trouble."

I second-guess myself looking for better ways to do things, quite often. But I'm still not convinced that a clean install is better than an upgrade and I won't participate in a debate about it.
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post #63 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhunter View Post

Are you running it on a Psystar machine?

Gearhunter you win this forum... your comment really made me chuckle.
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post #64 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:12pm
I've been hearing a lot of complaints against SL performance and stability. I slapped my MacPro with Snow Leopard since day one and its been solid as a rock. I haven't seen any application crashes yet even in 64-bit kernel mode. Safari works as expected, 7 tabs consuming 530MB out of my 18GB.

A friend of mine had a positive experience with his Unibody Macbook and said RAW images loads much faster. But his co-worker with the same model had a bad time with it saying its unstable and applications crash most of the time.

My theory is that the upgrade breaks application components, preferences overload, residual caches and component version incompatibilities(SL is a code rewrite) causes the systems engine running in thick sludge of rotten binary bits.

To test that theory, I recently bought a MacMini back in June(came with 10.5.6) then upgraded it to Snow Leopard. And I already had all my apps installed. Upon using it, it was so slow and sluggish. iTunes icon had to jump 13 times compared to 4 times in 10.5.8. So I wiped it with Clean Install, lo and behold it was just as fast Leopard. Some cases even a tad faster like Quicktime X played 1080p movies smoothly and iTunes icon jumped 3 times.

My suggestion is to do a clean install.
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post #65 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:16pm
I agree. I had the most problems with Tiger. Snow Leopard has been flawless though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garamond View Post

That's just plain wrong. Snow Leopard is the best Mac OS so far.
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post #66 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

It's funny, Schillers own PR campaign against windows was because users were going to have to do a fresh reinstall.... Go figure.

Reinstalling SL takes about 40 mins and preserves all users, documents and applications as well as most application settings.

Reinstall windows and your down for a weekend working from backups, re-installs, and then resetting everything up. Backups work great but they usually bring back the problems you were having that caused the reinstall of the OS.

I've migrated my (Mac Users - meaning ME and my user accounts on my system) more than 20 times since Panther from MANY MANY machines. I've never lost a thing. I've been in IT and do more training every year (taking in) than most in the industry and I still can't get a Windows migration as perfect as Apple does and they do it in less than 2hrs.

Some applications in Windows you CAN'T install once you've upgraded the OS to current Updates without installing the App updates. Problem is you can't install the App until SOME updates have been run and the APP updates will not run on a bare bone install. Talk about a Catch 22. OS X has similar issues (Looking at you Filemaker) but these are vastly easier to fix, call the software company and speak to an American who is not only willing to help but will do it at NO COST (I'm looking at you SAP, Intuit, Microsoft, Dell, HP, ACER... )
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post #67 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:33pm
Snow Leopard is about where it ought to be.

It needs to get better and it will get better. It's still a very new OS. It still has a lot of problems. 10.5 was also pretty bad for a few months. 10.6 will without doubt be the most stable and impressive Apple OS ever.
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post #68 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustReelFilms View Post

I recently bought a MacMini back in June(came with 10.5.6) then upgraded it to Snow Leopard. And I already had all my apps installed. Upon using it, it was so slow and sluggish. iTunes icon had to jump 13 times compared to 4 times in 10.5.8. So I wiped it with Clean Install, lo and behold it was just as fast Leopard.

Your experience parallels mine. I have a medium amount of experience administering about a dozen Macs in a small office. When it comes to changing cats, it's often easier to troubleshoot if you start fresh. I've honed this process down to the point where I don't dread it anymore. But it seems to be a fact that a lot of problems can be solved simply by starting fresh.

Also, running lean and clean makes a difference as well. The more you change the way the Mac was designed to work, the more likely you will encounter surprises when upgrading.

I also agree that Apple manages this process very well. I just spent hours screwing around with a PC trying to get it to print to a newly installed printer. Not even an OS upgrade. Just a printer. Fail.
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post #69 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

Reinstalling SL takes about 40 mins and preserves all users, documents and applications as well as most application settings.

Reinstall windows and your down for a weekend working from backups, re-installs, and then resetting everything up. Backups work great but they usually bring back the problems you were having that caused the reinstall of the OS.

No, your documents and applications are not preserved when you do a clean install on a Mac. Upgrading over Leopard will do that, I have MBP that I did that with and it works OK, but there is still beach balls in Finder and Safari that in some cases are frustrating to say the least. I've got an iMac that I did a clean install and I have the same issues so I don't think clean installs are going to fix much if anything.
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post #70 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

The thing is, I did use the guest account since I found it pretty useful when I have visitors. I actually have turned it off for now, but surely you can acknowledge that the existence of a bug that could lose you all your data is a pretty big one. If Microsoft had a bug like this, everyone on this board would be up in arms!

In those situations I would just create a user account (normal user), and avoid the guest account until it's resolved.

The only difference is that the account won't auto-wipe when your done with it, but it can always be deleted if you feel the need.
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post #71 of 169
10/28/09 at 6:55pm
I've run it both ways. I initially did a clean install with SL when it first came out, but later found it it had hosed my VMWare Fusion audio, so I had to revert. I then did a 'clean' install of leopard when I fell back.

I later got tired of waiting for a fix and created a new smaller partition for a clean install of leopard and upgraded my larger leopard partition to SL. A dual-boot setup with SL and Leopard running on the same hard drive.

I haven't experienced any problems on any of these. I'm actually curious if I can use the same 'apps' folder for both installs rather than re-installing everything on the old leopard partition.

In any case, no problems or crashes using either setup.

I can definitely see where a clean install would be the best case scenario. No conflicting legacy software. It would filter that sort of thing out when you re-install.

On a side note, does everyone just back up everything? I tend to keep an app archive folder that I can quickly re-install everything from, and just back up user data. That way I don't end up restoring old software.
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post #72 of 169
10/28/09 at 7:07pm
480MB? Holy frak!
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post #73 of 169
10/28/09 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

480MB? Holy frak!

I assume that's the isolated memory model. It uses much more memory then you might consider 'normal'. That's to prevent the entire browser from crashing due to a bad 'tab'. It keeps each tab isolated to it's own memory space (no shared memory).
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post #74 of 169
10/28/09 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

In those situations I would just create a user account (normal user), and avoid the guest account until it's resolved.

The only difference is that the account won't auto-wipe when your done with it, but it can always be deleted if you feel the need.

That's a good idea! That said, I've no visitors between now and the next update, so I'll hopefully just be able to turn on the guest account again.
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post #75 of 169
10/28/09 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post

A "clean install" erases one's boot drive and installs the OS from scratch, instead of upgrading on top of the previous OS.

Sorry, it was a smartass rhetorical question. "Clean install" is not one of the available options. Other than a standard upgrade, you've got "Archive and Install" and "Erase and Install." (The latter especially is both dangerous and a waste of time, but I don't blame you for not wanting to debate the merits.) I bring it up for another reason, which is that I hear the advice for doing a "clean install" constantly and I pity the poor novice who tries to follow it.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #76 of 169
10/28/09 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I won't go as far as you, but I have to say I'm not really impressed either by it's stability and performance. Clean install too.

it's $30 and it's about paving the way to 64bit

just some perspective
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post #77 of 169
10/28/09 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetang View Post

Migrating from 10.4 to 10.5 was smooth like butter....

Nothing crash as often as I am today with 10.6....

Fresh install might be a solution, but never had to do a clean install from 10.3 to 10.4 and then to 10.5....

So, now? I have to? Systems hangs most of them time under 10.6.... and I always have Activity Monitor open to monitor what's going on, and most of the time, it's either because Free memory goes to less than 100MB...

BTW, I have 4GB RAM DDR3 from Factory on my current Unibody MBP

There are several times programs showing red with not responding and this happened once in a while in 10.5, but it's happening several times per day under 10.6

Right now at this moment I have only 6 tabs under Safari, and the memory is taking close to 600MB (Real Memory) and under 62MB from Flash Player (Safari Plug-in)....

And in the past running 10.5, I hardly ever had to restart my MBP.... now with 10.6 I am force to do so several times per week, because the system does not response...

Especially after coming back from sleep mode or hibernation mode (secure sleep mode)...

Try shutting off Time Machine, if you are using it, and see if that helps.
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post #78 of 169
10/28/09 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

It's funny, Schillers own PR campaign against windows was because users were going to have to do a fresh reinstall.... Go figure.

Is that you Yoda?
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post #79 of 169
10/28/09 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetang View Post

From the first Mac OS X....

You notice improvement and enhancement.... So far Leopard is the best, and Snow Leopard sucks...

Crash all the time, and make everything else crash...

And has become like Microsoft Windows, whopping tons of memory for nothing....

Worst OS by far....

Leopard is the best....

Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far. A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7. Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk. I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers. Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES. Thanks for the heartache.
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post #80 of 169
10/28/09 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kick Axe View Post

Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far. A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7. Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk. I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers. Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES. Thanks for the heartache.

You do realize you can simply downgrade? No one forces you to upgrade. If it's causing you that much grief, simply downgrade until they resolve whatever issues your having.

I just created a second partition so that I could keep up to date on both. Makes it easy to tell when they address whatever issues I'm having.
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