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Mac OS X 10.6.2 to update nearly 150 Snow Leopard components - Page 3

post #81 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkoolaid View Post

What is all of this complaining about? I personally find Snow Leopard to be the best bang for $29 I've ever spent.

I'm not sure what everbodies problems are, some even sound like hardware, but I've found SL to be very fast and reliable. Fast being the important element.

One thing I can reccomend to everyone is to update their software especially third party apps.
post #82 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

I completely disagree.

I second that, Snow Leopard works great on my MacBook & even appears to have resolved some of it's own issues automatically. Combine this with the gains I get running Fusion 3 & wow!

It also turned our 32bit iMac into a usable machine again. When we went from Tiger to Leopard it became a dog, now it runs like it did with Tiger, but with better features than Leopard.
post #83 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You do realize you can simply downgrade? No one forces you to upgrade. If it's causing you that much grief, simply downgrade until they resolve whatever issues your having.

I just created a second partition so that I could keep up to date on both. Makes it easy to tell when they address whatever issues I'm having.

Most of the comments I see which are negative in nature are using the same logic as someone having a burnt out light bulb in a in a sports arena. The ball player finds the lighting of the field is unacceptable and he's not going to play until the bulb is replaced.

In my 20 years of working with operating systems and other programs I've found all software contains errors. It doesn't mean I am folding up operations until a line of code is fixed.
post #84 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by kick Axe View Post

Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far.

BS !
Quote:
A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7.

Because it isn't 10.7
Quote:
Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk.

It is the best OS going right now. I did an update install on a MBP from early 2008 and have not had any issues. In fact after a week I forced the system to run in 64 bit mode all the time. It has been win win ever since.
Quote:
I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers.

What did SL have to do with that?
Quote:
Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES.

Because the patching hell of Windows is not the path you want to follow.
Quote:
Thanks for the heartache.

Your welcomed!

Dave
post #85 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

It's funny, Schillers own PR campaign against windows was because users were going to have to do a fresh reinstall.... Go figure.

The core problem is people will install haxies (which were never approved or recommended in the first place), forget they have them and then bitch, moan and complain about the OS being unstable when it's the crappy third party software that's doing things it shouldn't be.

A clean install is often the easiest way to ensure such cruft is gone.

With Windows 7, you could have a vanilla Windows XP install with no third party software and if you are trying the wrong combination, you are forced to do a clean install. To add insult to injury, MS has nothing like the combination of Time Machine and the Migration Assistant, so you loose your applications - which are no where as easy to install as apps on the Mac. When i got my Intel MacBook Pro, Migration Assistant pulled off my provile, all my documents and even more amazingly all of my programs off of my G4 Powerbook! I didn't have to re-install anything and not only did I change OS versions, I changed CPU architectures! I was stunned! MS has nothing similar, and even third party migration tools (of which there are a plethora with Windows 7) aren't as flexible or reliable.
post #86 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'm not sure what everbodies problems are, some even sound like hardware, but I've found SL to be very fast and reliable. Fast being the important element.

One thing I can reccomend to everyone is to update their software especially third party apps.

The thing I find slightly weird about it is I've put Snow Leopard on my three year old MBP, which started on 10.4, was upgraded to 10.5, then has been upgraded to 10.6, and it actually seems to work better than on an iMac I bought a month before SL came out, barely used and then upgraded (so there was basically no third party software on it).

I've no idea why it seems a little less snappy on the new iMac, but I'm sure Apple will fix it.
post #87 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

A clean install is often the easiest way to ensure such cruft is gone.

The "clean install" is like a zombie, you can't kill it.

BTW, if anyone cares, all of this so-called "cruft" can be eliminated with an Archive and Install with far less effort and no risk.

Pass it along. Or don't.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #88 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

BTW, if anyone cares, all of this so-called "cruft" can be eliminated with an Archive and Install with far less effort and no risk.

Actually, Archive and install brings over system preferences (often the conveyance of haxies).

And I thought Archive and Install was eliminated in 10.6 - if you know where it is, pass it on...
post #89 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post

A "clean install" erases one's boot drive and installs the OS from scratch, instead of upgrading on top of the previous OS.

What it does is it gives a "want-to-be-know-it-all" a term with which he can try to sound like he knows more than the next person. Some "want-to-be-know-it-alls" will answer a question about a problem with an OS upgrade problem by giving the excuse, "well, if you didn't do a clean install, you were just asking for trouble."

I second-guess myself looking for better ways to do things, quite often. But I'm still not convinced that a clean install is better than an upgrade and I won't participate in a debate about it.

+1 here.

I would like to also add that part of the reason is "Oldie Tech Knowledge". When you do a "clean install", you're placing the entire system contiguously at the fastest end of the disc, meaning the inside ring.

I (***most of the time) always do clean installs from disc, repair permissions, then make sure all components are updated (10.6.1 for ex)... and then install my next most resource intensive software, such as CS4. Again, because it will run smoother and slightly faster from the "inside" disc area.

Once all of my main apps are ported.... I again do a permission repair, and then with SuperDuper or CCCloner... make an external disc clone/backup.

I will admit that some of this old tech comes from fooling around with Windows far too long, before switching back to Mac a few years ago once they went Intel. NOTE: also because of bad experiences with PCs, I religiously keep all of my data (other than Mail) separate from my system disk i.e. on a different partition or disk.

*** I actually did a simple upgrade with SL when it came out, but on a clone of my main disk... on both a MacPro and my first Mac (in years), a 2006 2.13 MBP. Both went perfect... and no complaints. However, I still did clean installs on both simultaneously last weekend while watching Vikes lose to the Steelers... the only bad experience the whole weekend.\
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #90 of 169
If there is only one thing that I can't seem to understand about Macs past, present, and probably future, is the fact that a corrupt font can play havoc with your system(!)... or at the very least make it an unpleasant experience with certain apps crashing.

In the case of SL and Adobe CS4 problems, it was ONE font: Menlo. How can that be?

Even when using a font mngr. like Fusion or FontXplorer, if you load a bad font that it doesn't catch as corrupt, or possibly not "optimized" (such as an old Type 1 font)... you will have problems. With that said, you can (should) clean your font caches with Onyx or similar.

Regardless... the issue remains that a font(s) can make the whole system unstable. Unbelievable in 2009, as far as I'm concerned
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #91 of 169
I find Snow Leopard significantly faster on my mini with 4 GB memory. OTOH, I am getting the random and infamous Rosetta crash / user logout mess, typically with Excel but not exclusively. For anyone who says a Mac bug can't bring down a computer... well this is one that does. All running apps effectively crash on the user logout. Also see the occasional crash-on-quit bug with iPhoto though it's not destructive.

In all my OS upgrades over the years on various Macs, I never had a problem as serious as the Rosetta crash bug.
post #92 of 169
Well...it's not like apple to keep things simple is it.
post #93 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I won't go as far as you, but I have to say I'm not really impressed either by it's stability and performance. Clean install too.

weird. i find it fast, more stable than leopard and allows more time between restarts. my mate switched to mac because of snow leopard so that's a huge plus.
post #94 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by kick Axe View Post

Snow Leopard is the worst OS upgrade by Apple by far. A 483 update. Why not just call it the next OS release 10.7. Warning to those who haven't upgraded. I suggest waiting for a real OS, not this junk. I lost access to my apache server, and it's costing me job offers. Why not break it up so we can get some of the more immediate "Windows" like PATCHES. Thanks for the heartache.

You installed a .0 release of an operating system on a machine that you depend on for your job? That wasn't very smart.
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post #95 of 169
On the stability issue;

Since installing 10.6 (and 10.6.1) on my 15" MBP, I've had a torrid time with system lock-ups (mouse moves but nothing is responsive). This was a clean install. I did a full permissions check and SMBios reset which helped a bit but I still get on average 1 lock-up per day requiring a restart. No oddball apps in use.

Leopard had been amazingly reliable for me on the same machine, even with a ton of dodgy apps and utilities built up over the years.

Ironically, 10.6.1 on a fun Hackintosh project is rock solid. Go figure!

P.
post #96 of 169
I just beg that they fix the Open GL system. Performance in gaming has dropped, I can't get more than 60 FPS in games.

Before World of Warcraft would go way beyond 100 FPS, sometimes near 200 FPS. And playing Counter Strike 1.6 via Crossover made my Windows PC feel shame, since I could pull 99 FPS out of it (and only 70-80 FPS on PC). Even when I booted in Windows via Bootcamp, Counter Strike would have more performance being "emulated" by Crossover under Mac OS X (10.5 Leopard).

Yesterday installed Snow Leopard and gaming went down to 60 FPS :S
According to Codeweavers, it's a BUG in Snow Leopard's Open GL, that "locks the FPS to the vertical
sync of your screen or some multiple of it".

I really hope they fix this, it's really the only problem that I had so far with Snow Leopard :/

---
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post #97 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by meep View Post

On the stability issue;

Since installing 10.6 (and 10.6.1) on my 15" MBP, I've had a torrid time with system lock-ups (mouse moves but nothing is responsive). This was a clean install. I did a full permissions check and SMBios reset which helped a bit but I still get on average 1 lock-up per day requiring a restart. No oddball apps in use. .

Me too - and I'm alarmed that anyone here who identified that they have real problems are flamed, or accused of operator error!

This is the first time ever (in 20 years) that I've had any problems with a mac, so I can understand why those with no problems with 10.6 are shocked into disbelief - but I promise you, some of us are having tremendous difficulty with system hangs. Like above I'm a basic user - Mail and Safari and possibly Tweetie are typically the only apps open when it fails - no tweaks, hacks or anything that could be remotely suspicious.
post #98 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by FitzGerald View Post

I just beg that they fix the Open GL system. Performance in gaming has dropped, I can't get more than 60 FPS in games.

Your description that all of your games now run with 60 FPS max makes me suspect that your "problem" is an activated vsync and not a degradation in OpenGL performance.
post #99 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffs View Post

Me too - and I'm alarmed that anyone here who identified that they have real problems are flamed, or accused of operator error!

You mustn't read these or any other Apple forums very often. That's pretty much the standard modus operandi among disciples of His Jobness. If it has a fault it's your fault, if it lacks a feature you don't need it anyway.
post #100 of 169
Quote:
This week, Apple has asked developers to continue to provide feedback on graphics drivers while also tasking them with focusing their evaluation efforts on TrackPad preferences and the ability to create virtual machines, people familiar with the matter say.

Ability to create virtual machines?
post #101 of 169
>> That's just plain wrong. Snow Leopard is the best Mac OS so far.

You are right, SL is great. I'm just mad at all my other applications since they decided to start crashing randomly after September 2009.
post #102 of 169
Is someone remembering the tones of bugs that 10.5.0 had and how the issues have been solved with 10.5.2 two months later ?
post #103 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Why all of this concern about the guest account? If you don't need it, you should be turning off the guest account anyway. Problem solved.

There are some of us who have friends and family who come over to your houses.

Also, if this had been an issue with windows, you guys would never let it go. It happens with Apple, its "no big deal, everything that goes wrong is the users fault anyway".
post #104 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanJAPAN View Post

Is someone remembering the tones of bugs that 10.5.0 had and how the issues have been solved with 10.5.2 two months later ?

Yes. Compared to Panther and Tiger, Leopard was a very problematic. I recall that they switched up some key points of OS the last minute right before going Gold. That stuff wasnt mostly ironed out until 10.5.2, as you state. SL wsa pretty solid from the developer Beta in many ways. I was using it as my main OS since April or May. Ive never done with other OS X Betas.
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post #105 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

There are some of us who have friends and family who come over to your houses.

You can bypass any potential problem with this bad but very rare bug by simply making your own Guest account without using the default.

Quote:
Also, if this had been an issue with windows, you guys would never let it go. It happens with Apple, its "no big deal, everything that goes wrong is the users fault anyway".

Or completely forget about it happening on Windows. With all the problems with Windows over the years I’m sure I’ve read about Windows corrupting files but have simply lost it in all the other stuff that happens to Windows. It is a big deal for OS X because this kind of thing is uncommon. It’s not a big deal because it can’t possibly affect many people and recreating the bug has proven to be difficult. Should it fixed? Absolutely, but Apple hasn’t exactly jumped up on this like other threats and issued an immediate patch. You have to figure they have assessed the situation.

I think that a worse bug was the old password buffer bug. With early version(s) of Mac OS X, if you filled the password input buffer (I forget how many characters that is) it would log you in. That affected the security of every Mac.
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post #106 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by antosh View Post

Anyone know if the OS updates ever include RAW compatibility changes, or are these only delivered separately as the 'Digital Camera RAW Compatibility Updates'?

I've just got a Panasonic GF1 and not only does Aperture not yet support the Panasonic RW2 raw format, but somehow Apple have managed to break DNG-from-Panasonics support in Mac OS/Preview/Aperture (in update 2.6) - so even if I use Adobe DNG convertor, the resulting DNGs aren't recognised!

Alternatively, anyone know of a workaround for this? It's driving me up the wall since I really don't like the obvious option, Lightroom...

Thanks

this was talked about on a macbreak - sorry, I forget the show # off hand...

it's panasonic & the way they are coding / releasing the info. they have told apple nothing nor provided any concrete info on setting support up for OS X.
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post #107 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulldecent View Post

>> That's just plain wrong. Snow Leopard is the best Mac OS so far.

You are right, SL is great. I'm just mad at all my other applications since they decided to start crashing randomly after September 2009.

It's not random. Apple made a conscious effort to corrupt key files so you'd want to upgrade.
And if you think I believe that...I have swampland in the Sahara for sale.

Seriously....there are a lot of DBs that no matter what...will poopoo anything. It's their nature. Using the lightbulb analogy...if they have a lightbulb burn out right after installing SL...SL will be blamed. Couldn't have been a coincidence. SL could actually jump out and lick their ball sack and it would still be a crappy OS because it didn't lick both sides equally. Nothing will please these people except death. That's how miserable an existence they have. They just have not figured that out yet.
I'd also venture a guess a few are actually Windows fanboys who will have their forums visited by Mac fans to poopoo Windows 7. It's just a game they play.
I've been using SL on a fresh install, data migrated using MA without any of the issues that some have seen. Of course I didn't have any of the crap installed that many have...the OS, GUI, Menu etc etc hacks installed. So nothing to break.
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post #108 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by main1event View Post

Hopefully they'll be bug fixes for mail. Even the Apple Boards are full of problems. My mail constantly downloads thousands of repeat emails. It apparently happens when 2 mail clients are checking the server at the same time.

what kind of accts are people having issues with - IMAP or POP?

just set up my gmail acct this week. no issues so far, but I only used the web interface. unless you have a good IMAP acct, usually not a good idea to use 2 clients. 1 client setup & the web interface is usually worked out the best for me.
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post #109 of 169
Apple's quality is typically very high. However, Snow Leopard has more problems than previous Mac releases and was probably put on the market a bit too early.

I also do think it is partly Apple's problem if they bring out a release unexpectedly early, and have not certified the key applications with their main 3rd party suppliers like Canon and HP. In particular if drivers for printers/scanners they sold me in the Apple store a couple of months previously don't work at all. his was fixed with the first patch release but very annoying at the time.

One interesting thing is the variety of comments ranging from it crashes all the time to it is very stable. Like most software which is claimed to be faster its using more memory. Anyone without 2Gb of memory is likely to see degraded rather than faster response times. I have now added memory to go from 1Gb to 2Gb and performance is back to regular Leopard speed.

There are still obvious problems with Apples own apps. Safari crashes regularly with multiple windows open, IPhoto often goes crazy when you edit photos and changes all the colors, and I still get a scenario where the screen goes completely black every couple of days and only a reboot fixes it. Really hoping they will fix these in new release.
post #110 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by FitzGerald View Post

I just beg that they fix the Open GL system. Performance in gaming has dropped, I can't get more than 60 FPS in games.

ok, not to troll, but this is stupid anyway... almost none of the displays in the consumer market right now refresh faster than 60hz, so +60 fps is a waste.

not to mention you are not going to see a difference over 30 or 60 anway, that's what broadcast tv runs at.

60 fps is all you need, turn up the detail rendering & enjoy the game.
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post #111 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Reeves View Post

Apple's quality is typically very high. However, Snow Leopard has more problems than previous Mac releases and was probably put on the market a bit too early.

Leopard had problems - Snow Leopard in my opinion has been the best release ever.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #112 of 169
Wow. Good thing they spent all that time bringing out an OS focused on stability and reliability
post #113 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgetang View Post

From the first Mac OS X....

You notice improvement and enhancement.... So far Leopard is the best, and Snow Leopard sucks...

Crash all the time, and make everything else crash...

And has become like Microsoft Windows, whopping tons of memory for nothing....

Worst OS by far....

Leopard is the best....

I'd only agree in so far as each new release becomes more and more of an UI abomination. For God sakes Apple come up with a consistent set of interface guidelines and STICK TO THEM!!!
post #114 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes. Compared to Panther and Tiger, Leopard was a very problematic. I recall that they switched up some key points of OS the last minute right before going Gold. That stuff wasn’t mostly ironed out until 10.5.2, as you state. SL wsa pretty solid from the developer Beta in many ways. I was using it as my main OS since April or May. I’ve never done with other OS X Betas.

Absolutely not.
Toughest problems were brought up by GraphicUpdate 1.0. It was not fixed until X.5.6 (neither is it fixed so far, the graphic driver exceptions are still seen in system log). Only Adobe CS issues were quickly fixed by X.5.2.
But SL is a real disaster as compared to any other release of OS X.
I can't guess though what exactly it changes for fanboism: X.5.2 or X.5.6...

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post #115 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Absolutely not.

Your personal experience not withstanding, Leopard was considerably more problematic than SL out of the gate.
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post #116 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL View Post

Leopard had problems - Snow Leopard in my opinion has been the best release ever.

You mean besides breaking Exposé and window screenshots of fullscreen windows right?

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7...problemss1.png
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/333...91029at904.png
post #117 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your personal experience not withstanding, Leopard was considerably more problematic than SL out of the gate.

Care to prove? No. Leopard was never "more problematic", than SL. It has more to do with complaints on all forums that with my personal experience.

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post #118 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

Care to prove? No. Leopard was never "more problematic", than SL. It has more to do with complaints on all forums that with my personal experience.

No. Nobody cares to prove this. Either accept it or move out of the way.
post #119 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Actually, Archive and install brings over system preferences (often the conveyance of haxies).

Actually, no. First of all, the default upgrade option for Snow Leopard is effectively the same as the old Archive and Install, in that it creates an entirely new System folder. It also segregates (disables) kernel extensions which it doesn't recognize. Second, system preferences are text files which, on their own, are completely inert.

Quote:
And I thought Archive and Install was eliminated in 10.6 - if you know where it is, pass it on...

Sort of. It's now the default method. Which only makes the mythical "clean install" that much less useful.
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post #120 of 169
I always do a clean install for a new OS. I do it for my clients as well.
To date, the stats look something like this, although I don't have exact numbers.
Updates over the last 10 years:
Fresh install: Zero Problems
Update install: 80% will have problems within 3 months, 95% will have problems within 6 months.

Out of the 300-400 machines that i've worked on for people over the last decade with OSX, the clean install has proven flawless for OS stability. Those that did an upgrade usually had problems with speed, random crashing, application compatibility, network issue's etc... and eventually came to me for help. Those that did two major OS upgrades, (4 years with no wipe) have a 100% fail rate from my experience.

ALWAYS do a fresh install.
1. Backup files
- Safari Bookmarks folder
- Address Book
- Calendar
- email folder
- iPhoto
2. Zero the HDD
3. Install OS
4. Replace Safari bookmarks folder, use import feature to import mail folder, address book etc...
5. Install current versions of software ie. Office 2008
6. Make sure you update all software ie. Office 2008
7. Enjoy a fast and trouble free computer for the next 2 years.

Takes 4 or 5 hours, but considering how much time is wasted over a period of 2 years with crashing and random problems... it's well worth it. That, and your files are backed up, and it feels good to have a fresh start.

Anyways, I bought a 10k rpm Velociraptor drive for my Mac Pro to put SL on to play with. Daaaam it's fast. Only problem so far is a few random video freeze's that kill the whole system. nVidea 8800gt card. Safari needs work and crashes lots. FF rocks thou.
Still using leopard for production, but the migration is almost complete. Maybe this next update will complete my migration.
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