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Apple engineers ramp up overseas trips for tablet - report - Page 2

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Hopefully TWO models:

iTablet with ARM inside. Big iPod touch. Extra-large battery life.

This is what I'm hoping for. At least from the standpoint of external design. Internally I don't expect it to be even close to similar.
Quote:
iTablet with Intel Atom inside. Mac OS X 10.6 (touch) inside. The Mac in your pocket.

I don't see this happening at all. Mainly because of Apples purchase of PA Semi. Even if the device had an ATOM inside it would still run a variant of iPhone OS. That to simply keep the confusion level down and to make leveraging App store easy.

The thing with ATOM is that it provides a path to the 64 bit world. Right now ARM is 32 bit only. People laugh when I bring this up but the reality is the 32 bit world is slowly drift away. The problem is ATOM won't happen for two reason. One it is way to power hungrey and doesn't deliver much performance for that power. The other is marketing, Apple won't want confusion on the part of the consummers, ARM and App Store make it clear this is not a platform for Mac programs.
Quote:
Looking forward to the second if it has video-out and USB 2 ports for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations.

That could happen with the ARM based unit also. To be kind of honest though I don't see video out as being a big draw.

As to the two OS's discussed here there isn't a huge difference in capability! Especially when it comes to potential apps delivered. Apps are more about hardware capability than anything and frankly this is where I hope Apple doesn't skimp or at the very least gives us a choice. To deliver the types of apps we all want to see on this device they need to deliver a tablet with a lot of on board RAM, at least two cores and at least 128GB of SSD. This is enough to support just about any presentation. As to that RAM I'm hoping for 1GB but we might have to get by with less. Finally the GPU needs to support the display well and handle 720 & 1080 P video.

Apple has a huge balancing act on their hands here as the device needs to be thin but have a long battery life. Frankly battery life is huge as the device needs to remain connected for long periods of time for web browsing, software updates and file transfers/streaming.

As to you presentations get a laptop. A tablet simply won't cut it for this application. If for nothing else it is difficult to reference the computers screen if it is flat on it's back.


Dave
post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad4m.phillips View Post

If the reports of a bigger touch, with web browsing and magazine content is all they got then i won't be buying and personally think it'll be a flop. There MUST be way more to it hopefully.

Apple needs a draw to get people to buy and use the thing, E-Books and the web are a good way to attrack people. Once people start to buy then you have developers taking notice, this is where the great new apps will come from.

It is worth repeating here that ALL PAST TABLETS have flopped when trying to run desktop OS's. The reason being is that people didn't grasp the need for tablet specific apps. Apple delivering a software API, derived from iPhone, forces developers to develop their app specifically for that device. Hopefully while doing so they take the platform and human factors into account.

So no there isn't more to it. In many ways it is taking the same path iPhone did. Supply a device with a base collection of really good software that will bring in users and let the developer community do the rest. E-Book support provides a buzz that attracks new customers and gives the device a reason to exist.

What you need to do is to think positively about this device. Well at least until it arrives and we all know what it has and doesn't have. Let's face it it is very possible for Apple to screw this device up to the point no real person wants it (AIR). But lte give them a little credit until the product arrives. As long as it can run third party apps and has enough hardware resources, it will be a very attractive unit.

What the world doesn't need is another E-Book reader that has a frozen feature set and no ability to run third party apps. I don't see Apple doing this at all, especially when they have the ideal OS to derive from.


Dave
post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Let's face it it is very possible for Apple to screw this device up to the point no real person wants it (AIR).

I was about to say I completely agreed with you until I came to this rather puzzling comment. Obviously (to me anyway) the MBA is being purchased by non-fictious people, or Apple would no longer be selling the product.
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post #44 of 59
The principal challenge with an iTablet would be the hardware. The battery life is very important. The big battery hog is the display. There are various emerging technologies including the MEM tech from QCOM, but I do not think they are ready for prime time. So it could between OLED and LCD with a hi efficiency LEDs back lighting with the ability just to turn on selective areas of screen . The need to conserve power would dictate that some ARM chip be used with various support chips being turned on and off as needed to conserve power. Once data like a newspaper, book, etc has been downloaded to flash memory, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc could be turned off automatically.

Instead of hog like MacOSX, something like the iPhone software plus multitasking would make sense. Not like somebody will use the iTable to do Autocad drawings, etc.

Considering how successful the Kindle has been with a minimalist approach, this market is indeed huge. The stock is cheap still with trailing enterprise PE at 17.
post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

.......... This could be a very good device, but if its just an eReader then I think it will flop.

Does anybody on this forum really expect Apple to deliver "just an eReader". Did Apple deliver just a cell phone or just an MP 3 player? Come on guys let's get real here. Providing book reading functionality just provides for a marketing slant and an after sale income stream.

Providing such functionality doesn't shut off all other functions. Nor does it prevent Apple from delivering a SDK for third party programs. In fact like on iPhone & Touch the SDK will be a key to driving sales. Those third party apps take time though thus Apple needs to be able to stir the pot a little and generate some buzz. E-Books are just one way to do this, but comics, movies, albums and other features are likely to be factors also.

I'd be truely shocked to see a one pony show from Apple.

Dave
post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I was about to say I completely agreed with you until I came to this rather puzzling comment. Obviously (to me anyway) the MBA is being purchased by non-fictious people, or Apple would no longer be selling the product.

Yes, unless this tablet does something pretty special, I'd rather have a MBA than a tablet. In fact, my next MB would more likely be an A than a P.
post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I was about to say I completely agreed with you until I came to this rather puzzling comment. Obviously (to me anyway) the MBA is being purchased by non-fictious people, or Apple would no longer be selling the product.

Well I'm not so certain what causes Apple to drop a product. However AIR doesn't seem to be getting the updates it should. That might be justification for the lack of product development.

In any event my comment really pulls on sentiment with in the community that AIR is a grossly over priced piece of junk. Likewise I think it will be awfully easy for Apple to produce a tablet that is seen to be grossly over priced and a piece of junk.

Pricing here will be a huge consideration if the primary market is the general consumer. Even with all the polish Apple can deliver I see $600 as being way to heavy for a consummer tablet. At least for the base model which ideally would come in under $450. It is all about tying the right price to the units utility. Frankly I see a tablet having a hardtime competeing with netbooks with respect to usability and features. It won't be like the laptop market where Apples feature provide for a compelling reason to purchase. Rather the fact that this is a tablet is actually a big negative.

In other words Apple has a tough up hill climb to move people to tablets. They need a far better user interface than has been available in the past, including what is on todays Touch devices.

Many people gave dumped their AIR's for other laptops simply because the hardware did not live up to their needs. Apple has a significant chance of selling a lot of tablets to people who will likewise realize the unit does not live up to what they imagined. I see it all the time in this forum, people imagining the tablet doing things it can't possibly do. There is little Apple can do to overcome the physical limitations of a tablet. At least at todays technology level. An ideal tablet for example would allow for voice input for example.

This leads us to another reality, the concept of AIR is not the problem. In fact the idea has a lot of merit but execution and technology doomed AIR. Technology because we don't have the right mix of chips to tightly pack in the functionality required into the tiny thermal envelope provided. As to execution well people still have certaing expectations with respect to ports and not having Ethernet nor more than one USB port is a killer on this machine. Now the question is what do people expect with respect to a tablet. Will an ARM based device be able to deliver performance acceptable to the community? What ports are going to be a requirement in a tablet. These are open questions right now. I'm actually hopeful that Apple is an early ARM A9 licensee and will deliver a snappy tablet. As to ports I'd have to say that SD and a couple of USB ports are required. Otherwise yeah I could see Apple pulling an AIR here and delivering a slow device that doesn't communicate well. It might be fine for some but it isn't likely to generate mass market appeal.



Dave
post #48 of 59
bye bye macbook sales? hello iMac + tablet?
post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Many people gave dumped their AIR's for other laptops simply because the hardware did not live up to their needs.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my Air and it has been great when I've had to send my problematic MBP off to be fixed.
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post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by utsava View Post

There IS much to gain for having full OSX on it: open development. But I have a feeling Apple will lock this thing down... mostly because it'll have 3G.

First development for iPhone OS is very open, the SDK is a free download as is the software documentation.

As to Mac OS X there is actually much to loose going that route. One is being large libraries filled with legacy crap. Another is the clear break with regards to what apps run where, putting Mac OS /X on a tablet will just confuse the users with respect to what apps run where.

While I don't expect it to be locked down as well as iPhone I do expect an app store! From the standpoint of the user it is a huge feature of iPhone.
Quote:

I want full OS X too. I think it needs to be running a touch enabled version of full snow leopard to really be a breakthrough device.

No that would be a device repeating history and doomed for failure. To be a break through device it needs to expand on Touch OS in new and novel ways.
Quote:
Slapping the iPhone OS on a bigger screen seems underwhelming to me.

Then you aren't thinking. IPhone OS is Mac OS X with a different API for writting user programs. IPhone OS is actually extremely capable considering it runs on a cell phone. On a tablet it won't have the hardware limitations and can thus be modified to do more for the user. When I say the OS will be derived from iPhone OS that is exactly what I mean. That doesn't mean it can't borrow from Mac OS X either. In fact I'm expecting that the dock will be a key interface element on the tablet.
Quote:
Then again, if they add multitasking, notification handling, etc. and it trickles down to an iPhone update, I'll be a happy man.

I would imagine some of that stuff going into a tablet right off the bat. However things like multitasking will require new iPhone hardware. One of the most frustrating things about iPhone is that it already needs more memory and speed. This on my old 3G but I suspect that even the GS is lacking the performance I want. With the 3G I see both sides of the debate, multitasking would be a huge improvement but I also know it would kill this iPhone.


Dave
post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Well I'm not so certain what causes Apple to drop a product. However AIR doesn't seem to be getting the updates it should. That might be justification for the lack of product development.

In any event my comment really pulls on sentiment with in the community that AIR is a grossly over priced piece of junk. Likewise I think it will be awfully easy for Apple to produce a tablet that is seen to be grossly over priced and a piece of junk.

Consistent with what you've said about the MBA, I believe one of the biggest problems that Apple constantly encounters is the point of view that if it's not for me, then it's not for anybody.

I think given the amount of time Apple has devoted to this project, that releasing "just a tablet computer" is not an option, nor a likelihood. They know that if it's not going to raise eyebrows, that it's not worth their effort.
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post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

......
P.S. I see the quantity of comments has gone down, since Teckstud was forced on a holiday..lol

I noticed he was missing last night. I'm not sure what happened, in the thread I was reading he seemed to be on the right and reasonable side of things.

Dave
post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

P.S. I see the quantity of comments has gone down, since Teckstud was forced on a holiday..lol

AI is giving us an early present.

Seriously now, he was banned by Mr. H yesterday for getting his 5th infraction from personal attacks. His banning will last for 3 days and took place yesterday evening EST.

But if you are missing him, look for Mrkoolaid. its a new alias hes using. He thinks hes being clever by posting overlay fanboyish comments about how great Apple is.

PS: The quantity of comments has gone down, but the quality of the comments is now higher.
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post #54 of 59
Hey gang, long time reader, finally joined...

Everyone seems, to me, to be very focused on what THEY would want from an iTablet. I think a better direction might be to think about markets.

The absolute biggest market I see for this product is STUDENTS. Apple could sell one of these to every student in the country if it would promise to replace all their textbooks, allow them to take notes, be reliable, and actually work.

This is a huge market, and more than enough to guarantee the commercial success of the product. It will work even better if Apple partners with the schools to offset some of the cost...

It seems to me that apple is setting out to make the printed page obsolete. If successful, it'd be a HUGE turning point for human society, equal to the Guttenburg printing press.
post #55 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Consistent with what you've said about the MBA, I believe one of the biggest problems that Apple constantly encounters is the point of view that if it's not for me, then it's not for anybody.

My point if view means nothing in and of itself but when the market reflects those views then it begins to have value. AIR like other Apple failures has been rejected by the marketplace. That can be seen in Apples lack of attention to the product, the stiff price reduction and the very low prices seen in the used market. I have nothing to do with any of these points.

Does AIR have to remain a failure? Certainly not if they are willing to listen to customers. Well that and finding the right technology to deliver the type of performance people expect out of a high priced laptop. Maybe by the middle of next year AIR can be refactored into something that would generate good sales.
Quote:

I think given the amount of time Apple has devoted to this project, that releasing "just a tablet computer" is not an option, nor a likelihood. They know that if it's not going to raise eyebrows, that it's not worth their effort.

I'm not sure about this. The tablet could simply be a device to drive Itunes Album & E-Book sales. I'd much prefer a tablet that raised eyebrows myself but in part that will require a lot of bleeding edge hardware tech driving up costs. Not to mention a drawn out software evolution like we saw on iPhone.

The problem isn't that this is impossible, rather it is delivery at a price to consummers that is possible. An over priced Tablet will be like an overpriced AIR, only useful to people who don't value money.


Dave
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

My point if view means nothing in and of itself but when the market reflects those views then it begins to have value. AIR like other Apple failures has been rejected by the marketplace. That can be seen in Apples lack of attention to the product, the stiff price reduction and the very low prices seen in the used market. I have nothing to do with any of these points.

Contempt is difficult to conceal, and you're not even trying. Apparently the MBA is a failure for no other reason than you say so. People who own one, and like it, have no sense.

This just illustrates my point about the problem Apple is very likely to have with a tablet. Little doubt, it will be more expensive than a lot of people think it should be, but the value will be in its functionality and form factor, two aspects of design that Apple really sweats until they think they've got it right. Utterly predictable criticism will come from those who don't care about the functionality or form factor. They will complain about price, they will complain about tech specs -- no matter what Apple does, they will complain about these things (just as they did with the iPod and the iPhone). Along with these complaints comes the imbedded notion that if they don't want it, nobody should.

Oddly enough, I agree with most of your other observations. OTOH, think you've unintentionally illustrated Apple's biggest challenge in entering this (or any other) market.
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post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thIndian View Post

I'm not sure you're looking at it the right way. Apple is talking about changing the way people read.

Let's set aside the fact that it will be a music player, internet browser, movie player, and via bluetooth headset, a phone- at a 10" screen size it will be much more enjoyable to use. If that were all it was, you're right- it might sell moderately well to the faithful.

But let's be honest, the iPhone and other mobile devices, by their nature, are pocket sized and not perfect for reading. It's a compromise. I've read my fair share on my iPhone and I couldn't imagine reading a full length novel unless I was really stuck. The internet on your phone is primarily an information oriented convenience. Need to look up something, you can. Need to find somewhere, you can. At the other end, notebooks are OK in some situations, riding on a train or plane, but not for casual commuter use.

In an article about comic books on the tablet the other day- someone mentioned that Apple would be going after a niche market. Well, that's correct. Comics are a niche market. So are e-books. But if you look at the combined strength of all the possible niches this thing will appeal to- medical, student textbooks, comic books, magazines, books, newspapers... then it starts to amount to something with a pretty wide appeal. On a device that makes the reading enjoyable and convenient.

I read Bram Stoker's Dracula and The wizard of Oz on the iPhone. The battery is shit anyway but it still lasted enough and it reads very well IMHO.
post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

First development for iPhone OS is very open, the SDK is a free download as is the software documentation.

You may want to look up the word "Open" in relation to software development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

As to Mac OS X there is actually much to loose going that route. One is being large libraries filled with legacy crap. Another is the clear break with regards to what apps run where, putting Mac OS /X on a tablet will just confuse the users with respect to what apps run where.

Now I know I am being a prat about this, but the word is 'lose', not 'loose', they are very different words, with very different meanings.
post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlnoize View Post


The absolute biggest market I see for this product is STUDENTS. Apple could sell one of these to every student in the country if it would promise to replace all their textbooks, allow them to take notes, be reliable, and actually work.

This is a huge market, and more than enough to guarantee the commercial success of the product. It will work even better if Apple partners with the schools to offset some of the cost...

It seems to me that apple is setting out to make the printed page obsolete. If successful, it'd be a HUGE turning point for human society, equal to the Guttenburg printing press.

You just made my points for me. I personally did well in school, and I kicked it in to high gear when I got a laptop. Digitally searching (cmd+f) for facts across huge documents and copying and pasting data into your notes, not to mention the myriad of other things a laptop can do, really helps with education. Replacing big heavy books with this tablet will be a godsend. Plus you'll finally be able to draw your teacher's diagrams.

I also agree that if this or another tablet comes along to replace books, that it's really going to be a big step for humanity.
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