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Nintendo profits freefall as iPhone cuts into portable game sales

post #1 of 198
Thread Starter 
Japanese game maker Nintendo's profits were cut in half, as sales of its portable Nintendo DS system continue to feel the impact of the iPhone and iPod touch.

Nintendo's profits fell from 133 billion yen a year prior to 64 billion yen , or $709 million, last quarter. Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone.

"Nintendo's portable game machine, the DS, also faces increasing competition from Apple Inc's iPhone, which has become a popular platform for handheld games," Reuters noted.

To combat declining interest in its Nintendo DS platform, the company announced it intends to launch a new form factor for the hardware in Japan in November. The Nintendo DSi LL will feature 93 percent larger 4.2-inch dual screens and will carry a $222 price tag.

As Apple continues to gain ground in the portable gaming space, the Wall Street Journal also suggested that the Cupertino, Calif., company could enter the console business and compete with the Nintendo Wii, Microsoft Xbox 360 and Sony Playstation 3. While that rumor has persisted for years, it has yet to prove accurate.

For years now, Apple has pitched its iPod touch as a portable gaming machine, dubbing it "The funnest iPod ever." The latest upgrade to the hardware includes the ability to run Open GL ES 2.0, with up to 50 percent faster performance.

When the upgraded iPod touch was unveiled in September, Apple highlighted a number of high-profile upcoming game releases from franchises that were established on competitors' hardware, including Assassin's Creed and Madden NFL. While many of the early successful iPhone and iPod touch games came from small-time developers, big-name content creators like Electronic Arts, id Software and Konami began flocking to the platform this year.

Apple also boasted in September that, at that moment, the iPhone OS had 21,179 game and entertainment titles available, compared to 3,680 for the Nintendo DS and 607 for the Sony PSP. One of the strengths of the iPhone and iPod touch is the number of budget-priced titles available for the platform. Comparatively, most games for the Nintendo DS and Sony PSP cost between $25 and $40.
post #2 of 198
The iPod and iPhone now rule handhelds.

http://www.neowin.net/news/gamers/09...si-ll-revealed

Hey Nintendo, 2002 called, and they wan't their handheld back.
post #3 of 198
To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?
post #4 of 198
Hey, when is Apple going to set up a built-in iphone emulator into OSX so that I can play various silly games on my computer (use the mouse or trackpad as interface)?

it just seems like a good way to get EA and everyone else happily developing games for mac...
post #5 of 198
Ouch! That is about 20% worse than I predicted for Nintendo. Unless Nintendo builds a competitive PMP into their handheld gaming device and/or the next "must have" game I have to wonder if this DSi LL will also be a failure.
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post #6 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?

I agree with ou there.
post #7 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Ive seen young kids be able to use my iPhone and learn to navigate the pages to find games and go back using the Home Screen astonishing quick, but the lack of a D-Pad can make it less than ideal for the way games have been designed for 30 years now. Now that v3.0 has allowed for 30-pin connector access I expected to see some D-pads on the market for the holidays. Actually, Im surprised Im not seeing more accessories on the market for the Touch and iPhone.
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post #8 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.....Thoughts?

Yeah. Your point being?
post #9 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Actually, Im surprised Im not seeing more accessories on the market for the Touch and iPhone.

Wasn't that long ago Apple opened it up, my suspicions are that the next few months will see a deluge of accessories.
post #10 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Actually, Im surprised Im not seeing more accessories on the market for the Touch and iPhone.

That is an interesting observation. Why do you suppose?
post #11 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

Another example of an Apple fan site . . . being an Apple fan site.

iPhone cuts into portable game sales

If by "cheerleading" you mean "reality", then you're absolutely right.

And we're talking about the DS here. It was interesting about 4 years ago. Now it's just sad.
post #12 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Wasn't that long ago Apple opened it up, my suspicions are that the next few months will see a deluge of accessories.

The iPhone OS v3.0 was released at the end of JUne, but the announcement of the iPhone OS v3.0 30-pin access for 3rd-parties and SDK 3.0 Beta 1 were released in Mid-March. That is full 7.5 Months that companies can ready their wares. At least make an announcement.

What I find most odd is that prior to the iPhone v3.0 announcement officially allowing the 30-pin access we had two companies who worked up demos of D-pads for Apples devices. What happened to them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

That is an interesting observation. Why do you suppose?

I have no idea. Maybe there are issues with it. TomTom is no longer able to get the GPS working with the Touch or 1st Gen. iPhone.
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post #13 of 198
Makes no sense not to enter the console market with the ATV.

IT's a small risk, high reward scenario. GAmes are sold on the app store just like with the iPHone/Touch. ATV is already in stores. Probably has enough power to do iPHOne games or if not upgrade it a bit. That shouldn't be difficult to do and keep the same pricepoint given it is still $230 after a few years.

Only hurdle is what do you use for a controller?
post #14 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

And we're talking about the DS here. It was interesting about 4 years ago. Now it's just sad.

The great thing about Nintendo is that they can falter, misstep or simply fall out of favor but come back strong years later. I do not doubt that Nintendo will just bide their time until the paradigm shift allows them to make a comeback like theyve done so many times before.
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post #15 of 198
I can't believe. Simplistic and awkward iPhone games of 1 level and a half just can't compete yet. There must be another reason for this.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #16 of 198
I bet the next version of the iphone and ipod touch see the home button changed to a D-pad. It would be awesome for gaming and navigating table views.
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post #17 of 198
256 x 192 on a 4.2" screen. Now that's some high-quality gaming!
post #18 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

Makes no sense not to enter the console market with the ATV.

IT's a small risk, high reward scenario. GAmes are sold on the app store just like with the iPHone/Touch. ATV is already in stores. Probably has enough power to do iPHOne games or if not upgrade it a bit. That shouldn't be difficult to do and keep the same pricepoint given it is still $230 after a few years.

Only hurdle is what do you use for a controller?

your iphone over wifi. ick. the iphone wifi remote app for ATV works quite nicely so i'm sure it's possible and has been considered.

I'm sure apple could provide a wifi controller for a mere $19.99, $29.99 or $39.99... the usual add-on price.
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post #19 of 198
yeah nice try AI. every other site reporting this doesn't mention a word about apple, they talk about currency exchange and other factors contributing to falling profits.

the ipod touch / iphone and ds have such an incredibly different price point and feature set that it's hard to argue that they compete directly.

the iphone has no physical buttons, making it incapable of anything beyond 10-second gaming.
post #20 of 198
I don't think the Touch has heavily impacted DS sales.

In Japan I don't think the Touch and iPHOne are that big.

IN the US the DS is still selling quite well. Still #1 selling gaming console.

I think Nintendo jumped the shark with the Dsi though. It wasn't a full-fledged sequel. It was just a stop-gap product that isn't going to be fully supported this late in the lifecycle.

I do think making a bigger screened DS is a good move. When I had one I never took it out of the house. And thought the screen was too tiny for half the games. AT this point though it seems like another stop-gap product.

Something you buy now and a year later Nintendo announces the DS2.
post #21 of 198
I've got an iPhone and a DS, and I used to own a PSP. They're all handheld consoles but I don't see much overlap in their markets at the moment. Each console's abilities, controls and games target a different gaming environment:

Sony PSP -> Plane ride
Nintendo DS -> Bus ride
iPhone/iPod touch -> Toilet break

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Hey Nintendo, 2002 called, and they wan't their handheld back.

Wake me up when anything on the App Store is as good as New Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart DS or Advance Wars: Days of Ruin.
post #22 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The great thing about Nintendo is that they can falter, misstep or simply fall out of favor but come back strong years later. I do not doubt that Nintendo will just bide their time until the paradigm shift allows them to make a comeback like theyve done so many times before.

Nintendo has incredible brand power and Brand Loyalty. You're absolutely right about that. They can go quite far on name alone.
post #23 of 198
The DS isn't really being significantly impacted by iPod Touch sales. The gamers involved in these groups are completely different. iPod Touch gamers are, in essence, the same type of gamers who sit at home and play flash games in their web browsers. Nintendo DS gamers are either children who desire portable games or young people who are fans of series or characters.

This article makes a point about the games' pricing. DS and PSP games cost much more than iPod Touch apps, yes, but their games are of much higher quality and longer length. iPod Touch games lack depth and are very simple, addicting games to play when on the go with little time. DS games have much more immersion.

This article... Frustrates me.
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post #24 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

yeah nice try AI. every other site reporting this doesn't mention a word about apple, they talk about currency exchange and other factors contributing to falling profits.

the ipod touch / iphone and ds have such an incredibly different price point and feature set that it's hard to argue that they compete directly.

the iphone has no physical buttons, making it incapable of anything beyond 10-second gaming.

Nintendo's profits fell from 133 billion yen a year prior to 64 billion yen , or $709 million, last quarter. Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone.

Prove that part of the losses weren't due to competition from the iPhone/iPod Touch.

The impact of the iPhone and iPod Touch was already acknowledged by Nintendo in their previous quarterly report!
post #25 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiderich View Post

The DS isn't really being significantly impacted by iPod Touch sales. The gamers involved in these groups are completely different. iPod Touch gamers are, in essen

This article... Frustrates me.

Except that Nintendo already acknowldged the impact in their previous quarterly report.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent
post #26 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?

I think your analysis of the situation is a bit more realistic than AIs. Especially on the stale hardware bit. I really don't think the iPod Touch is eating into their market share. Two very different devices. For the most part, iPod Touch games are just fancier Cell Phone games, things you pick up and play for a few minutes. DS games usually are the type that you play for 15 minutes or so, save, and come back to. Rolando is probably the closest I've seen to a console style game on the iPod Touch in terms of length and story. (There are a few more, but only a few... I really wish there were more out there! For all its downfalls made by Apple, the iPod Touch / iPhone is screaming for more indepth games.)
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post #27 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiderich View Post

iPod Touch games lack depth and are very simple, addicting games to play when on the go with little time. DS games have much more immersion.

This article... Frustrates me.

It's pretty evident you haven't played any games from the App Store recently.
post #28 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?

What games was he playing? Were they the same or similar games to those he has on the DS/PSP?

The reason that I ask is that myself, my wife and our 2 sons all play games on our iPhones and Touch and have no issues with the controls. Perhaps it is the games he has been playing, which would not be too surprising as there is a lot of shovelware on the iPhone which shoehorn in generic crap controls.

Since getting the kids iPhones they have stopped playing their DS and PSP (although, the PSP had not been touched for months). They play the majority of their games on the Xbox 360 online and all their handheld gaming on the iPhone.
post #29 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I think your analysis of the situation is a bit more realistic than AIs

No, it isn't.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent
post #30 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

No, it isn't.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent

Just in case people are too lazy to click the link…
Quote:
...due to harsher competition in the portable arena stemming directly from Apple devices..



...or don’t trust a MacWorld link….

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technol...5875-21561458/
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post #31 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Except that Nintendo already acknowldged the impact in their previous quarterly report.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent

Ah, I knew this ugly myth would rear its head one day again. Just follow the references and you'll realize something surprising:

From

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent

to

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technol...5875-21561458/

to

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/07...-hammering-ds/

finally to

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...its_sales.html

And, surprise surprise, this news actually was issued by our propaganda squad at AI without, of course, any real reference for their claims.

Ninja edit:

You can actually skip the electigpic.com news as the Mirror already points to AI.
post #32 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

If by "cheerleading" you mean "reality", then you're absolutely right.

I think that you have a vision of reality extremely distorted.

iPhone/Touch is not the primary element in Nintendo sales drop, is Wii, 10 millon sold in the first six months of 2008 and 5.75 in the same period of this year, a price cut of 25% and the yen stronger than last year.

DS sales drop from 13.7 to 11.7 and is in this drop where Apple could have been a factor but the primary factor is saturation.
post #33 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Ah, I knew this ugly myth would rear its head one day again. Just follow the references and you'll realize something surprising:

From

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent

to

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technol...5875-21561458/

to

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/07...-hammering-ds/

finally to

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...its_sales.html

And, surprise surprise, this news actually was issued by our propaganda squad at AI without, of course, any real reference for their claims.

Ninja edit:

You can actually skip the electigpic.com news as the Mirror already points to AI.

That is a strong rebuttal. The NYTimes article that the AI article got its info from is no longer available. Searching for it now…

edit: It’s looking like Nintendo’s biggest falter in sales is from the Wii, which Apple doesn’t come close to directly competing with. However, to say that the Touch has had no impact on DS sales is like saying the iPhone has had no impact on iPod sales. If a kid has to choose one or the other, it’s possible that many will choose the Touch since it can do gmes, though not as robustly or as well, but has many other features to it.
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post #34 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's pretty evident you haven't played any games from the App Store recently.

Which games do you recommend?
post #35 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

No, it isn't.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent

Instead of quoting another Mac-Friendly site, please help me find facts to help your argument on Nintendo's site. I rather hear it from Nintendo than MacWorld.
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post #36 of 198
edit: Voldemort.
post #37 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Nintendo's profits fell from 133 billion yen a year prior to 64 billion yen , or $709 million, last quarter. Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone.

Prove that part of the losses weren't due to competition from the iPhone/iPod Touch.

The impact of the iPhone and iPod Touch was already acknowledged by Nintendo in their previous quarterly report!


Can you prove that it was? This analysis is leading the witness. The guy attempts to make a correlation between consumers buying the itouch for gaming vs buying the DS for the same purpose.

Did you/he think to realize that DS sales are dropping because as someone mentioned on here is due to the recession, and the fact kids/teens will generally have one or the other and not both. The DS does gaming better, but the itouch does everything else extremely better with a little bit of gaming savvy added in.

IMHO teens/tweens would much rather be sporting an iTouch at the mall than a DS. If nintendo is losing DS shares to the itouch, it's not because of games.
post #38 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Ah, I knew this ugly myth would rear its head one day again. Just follow the references and you'll realize something surprising:

From

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent

to

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technol...5875-21561458/

to

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/07...-hammering-ds/

finally to

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...its_sales.html

And, surprise surprise, this news actually was issued by our propaganda squad at AI without, of course, any real reference for their claims.

Ninja edit:

You can actually skip the electigpic.com news as the Mirror already points to AI.

If so, AppleInsider outright LIED, because AI alleged that the statements Nintendo made about cmpetition from Apple were on the record, and the first of its kind made by Nintendo:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...its_sales.html

Nintendo's comments are the first on-the-record statements from the Japanese company that treat Apple as a genuine competitor. The iPhone maker itself has been quick to challenge Nintendo, calling the iPod touch a "console experience," but until now hasn't been acknowledged in return.

Aparently, at some point during the conference call, Nintendo either declared Apple a genuine competitor, or somehow intimated the same.

So what's AIs source?
post #39 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?

My thought is that the DS is already dead and floating.

The PSP Go will have a hard time keeping it's head up and is essentially treading water right now but it might survive for a while in the hands of the old school "I can't play without buttons" crowd.

This is just the way of the world when it comes to technology and I've seen it happen many times in the past. I remember when the very first calculators became available for the average consumer and there were a lot of people that said similar things to what we hear today. I've actually been in the room when people said, "You can't do *real* math on a calculator, give me a pencil and paper or a good old slide-rule anytime."

When computers came out there was a whole lot of people who just couldn't "get it" and they looked at the things as if they were some kind of futuristic monsters and shook their heads at anyone who would want to use one because they knew they didn't understand them themselves. When graphical UI's and mice arrived, I listened to people say things like "*real" computers have keyboards" and " I can work twice as fast on CLI than I can with the graphics, it will *never* catch on."

Now it's "real computers have buttons" and there is a whole group of people who used to be cool and hip that will now be lame old-schoolers because they can't stomach (or understand) the new devices.

Same old same old.

I mean if you think about it logically for a second or two, there is absolutely nothing that a touch based device with no buttons can't do that one with plastic buttons can. Nothing. I'm not saying the iPod touch is that device today, but there is nothing in the technology of buttons itself that gives any real advantage. It's 100% a preference thing. some people prefer buttons. That's fine, but it won't change the future and time waits for no man (or woman).
post #40 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Ah, I knew this ugly myth would rear its head one day again. Just follow the references and you'll realize something surprising:

From

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...74#mainContent

to

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technol...5875-21561458/

to

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/07...-hammering-ds/

finally to

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...its_sales.html

And, surprise surprise, this news actually was issued by our propaganda squad at AI without, of course, any real reference for their claims.

Ninja edit:

You can actually skip the electigpic.com news as the Mirror already points to AI.

Today's article in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/...profits&st=cse

Part of it reads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times

Nintendo's portable game machine, the DS, also faces increasing competition from Apple Inc's iPhone, which has become a popular platform for handheld games.

Certainly you're not suggesting the NY Times gets it's information from AI?
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