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Nintendo profits freefall as iPhone cuts into portable game sales - Page 2

post #41 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiderich View Post

The DS isn't really being significantly impacted by iPod Touch sales. The gamers involved in these groups are completely different. iPod Touch gamers are, in essence, the same type of gamers who sit at home and play flash games in their web browsers. Nintendo DS gamers are either children who desire portable games or young people who are fans of series or characters.

This article makes a point about the games' pricing. DS and PSP games cost much more than iPod Touch apps, yes, but their games are of much higher quality and longer length. iPod Touch games lack depth and are very simple, addicting games to play when on the go with little time. DS games have much more immersion.

This article... Frustrates me.

It's true that the quality of Iphone games can't compare with a dedicated game consul ... that's a given, but if you use the newspaper industry as a comparison you see some interesting facts.

While a "real newspaper" like the NY times or whatever may be a better newspaper, the fact is, those kind of papers are having all kinds of problems trying to stay alive, while the quick read, free papers given out at most major cities are flourishing.

Most people today seem to be really pressed for time and it shows up with almost everything they do. Eat a sit down dinner? .... without being on the computer or watching tv at the same time? .... not likely. .. the examples are endless.

The major advantage the iPhone has is twofold ... variety (to hold small attention span people, nearly all of us) and convenience ... let's face , if your leaving the house, what's the one device you're not doing without? ... the cell phone, right ?

For these reasons I would be very surprised if iPhone did not cut into traditional game markets.
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post #42 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is a strong rebuttal. The NYTimes article that the AI article got its info from is no longer available. Searching for it now...

You are probably looking for this (note that the NY Times URL only references news from Reuters):

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKT25817420090730

Also note that even the Reuters news lack any kind of reference to a Nintendo spokesperson or similar. It sounds more like interpretation by the author than anything else.
post #43 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKWalsh4 View Post

Today's article in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/...profits&st=cse

Certainly you're not suggesting the NY Times gets it's information from AI?

And I would hope you aren't basing your argument off of one line in the article. The rest talks about pressure from the PSP and Sony. Yes, Apple has cut in to the DS sales, but only a little bit; no where as big as this AI article makes it out like.
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post #44 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

So what's AIs source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination
post #45 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Nintendo's profits fell from 133 billion yen a year prior to 64 billion yen , or $709 million, last quarter. Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone.

Prove that part of the losses weren't due to competition from the iPhone/iPod Touch.

The impact of the iPhone and iPod Touch was already acknowledged by Nintendo in their previous quarterly report!

I swear, fanboys are the worst!!!

The slant of this article and its title would have you believe that Nintendo's profits are down solely because of the iPhone/Touch which is absolutely untrue. The article you keep linking to every opportunity you can points out several other factors that had much larger affects on profit. Let me quote a few for you:

Quote:
A sharp fall in global sales of Nintendo's popular Wii console and a less dramatic slowdown in sales of the portable DS pushed down the company's sales and profits in the April to June quarter, the company said on Thursday.

Or how about this nugget:

Quote:
In addition to the lower unit sales Nintendo was also hit by the Japanese yen, which has strengthened against both the U.S. dollar and euro since the April to June quarter of last year. The strong yen increases the price of its products that are made in Japan and also reduces the value of sales and profits made overseas when that money is returned to Japan.

Please learn to think for yourself.
post #46 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKWalsh4 View Post

Today's article in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/...profits&st=cse

Part of it reads:


Certainly you're not suggesting the NY Times gets it's information from AI?

LOL, then what's AI's source?

Anyway, it's pretty ludicrous to suggest Nintendo isn't facing competition from Apple in this area.

Both are handhelds. Both do games. Why get a DS when you've got great iPod/iPhone games plus the App Store?

Done.
post #47 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

And I would hope you aren't basing your argument off of one line in the article. The rest talks about pressure from the PSP and Sony. Yes, Apple has cut in to the DS sales, but only a little bit; no where as big as this AI article makes it out like.


Sales decline of Wii: 42% + 25% price cut
Sales decline of DS: 14%
Stronger yen, recession


But for AI Apple is the main cutter here
post #48 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

I swear, fanboys are the worst!!!

The slant of this article and its title would have you believe that Nintendo's profits are down solely because of the iPhone/Touch which is absolutely untrue. The article you keep linking to every opportunity you can points out several other factors that had much larger affects on profit. Let me quote a few for you:



Or how about this nugget:



Please learn to think for yourself.

Apple is still a factor. Nintendo is facing increased compeition in this area. The industry has acknowledged it.

Done.

I don't need to thnk for myself when we have facts on hand, and COMMON SENSE, which doesn't require a lot of thought.
post #49 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

However, to say that the Touch has had no impact on DS sales is like saying the iPhone has had no impact on iPod sales.

Maybe it did or maybe it didn't. At this point it's difficult to determine the cause without any further numbers and thorough market analysis.

Quote:
If a kid has to choose one or the other, it’s possible that many will choose the Touch since it can do gmes, though not as robustly or as well, but has many other features to it.

Games and brands sell consoles and if I had to take a guess I'd say that Nintendo is in a much better position with it strong, children-oriented brands like Pokemon.

Ninja edit Sigma:

Gwydion's explanation for the decline of Nintendo's profit sounds more sensible to me.
post #50 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

LOL, then what's AI's source?

Anyway, it's pretty ludicrous to suggest Nintendo isn't facing competition from Apple in this area.

Both are handhelds. Both do games. Why get a DS when you've got great iPod/iPhone games plus the App Store?

Done.

What is ludicrous is suggesting that the main factor are iPod Touch and iPhones.

But, hey, you're the one who see the real situation, isn't?

My God, people like you is the people who makes fanboy a real word.
post #51 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I don't need to thnk for myself..

Quote of the day...thanks for making me laugh...
post #52 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Quote of the day...thanks for making me laugh...

Na, I think the money quote was:

Quote:
and COMMON SENSE, which doesn't require a lot of thought.

Since I'm having an academic background it actually scares me each time that there are people in the western world which still cling to so-called common sense.
post #53 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I don't need to thnk for myself when we have facts on hand, and COMMON SENSE, which doesn't require a lot of thought.

Comments like this scare me. Even when you think you have the "facts", regardless if you are right or wrong, you should always question them. Common sense is good and all, but not the end all, not by a long shot. Its a good place to start, yes. Question everything around you to come up with your own facts of how the world works.

You NEED to think for yourself, regardless.
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post #54 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

DS sales drop from 13.7 to 11.7 and is in this drop where Apple could have been a factor but the primary factor is saturation.

Exactly. The DS has sold 114 million units world-wide. Also, let's face it, the iPhone is for casual gaming. Gamers wanting longer, more complex games will still turn to the DS and/or PSP. If you were to tell any non-casual gamer they could only pick one handheld for *playing games*, I would be very surprised if any of them would choose the iPhone.
post #55 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Since I'm having an academic background

I hope you at least bought it supper first
post #56 of 198
This has a lot less to do with Apple and way more to do with Nintendo not updating their hardware. My son can't stand the iPhone "virtual" controls, and there's no Mario or Lego games on the iPhone. Not to mention the DS games are a better deal over the long run, since my son has been playing a $20 game for six months, but the iPhone games I have bought for him have about 5 hours of gameplay before he's seen all the game has to offer. All his friends have DS and they play together, something the iPhone/iPod really can't compete with (since there aren't a lot of kid multiplayer games, and Apple doesn't have close to the market saturation of the DS among kids). However, I'm sure Nintendo lost some adult marketshare (the "Brain Age" buyers) to people casually playing on their iPhones.
post #57 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

I hope you at least bought it supper first

Grammar nazi anybody? I'm not a native English speaker and I don't really check my sentences for grammar and orthography when posting on AI. It's not really worth my time. Still, thank you for your contribution to the topic at hand...wait a sec...
post #58 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

... What I find most odd is that prior to the iPhone v3.0 announcement officially allowing the 30-pin access we had two companies who worked up demos of D-pads for Apple’s devices. What happened to them?...

The only one I've heard about (and keep hearing about every month or so), is the iControlPad, which is pretty much exactly what the old-school gamers want but so far they have decided to go "underground."

In other words, they claim to be making the device and appear to be about to sell it, but they pointedly don't want to legally license the 30-pin access from Apple (last I heard). This is apparently because most of the devices supporters and it's potential market consist of jail-breakers and IP thieves etc.

The games that are popular on the iPhone platform in the store are all designed to work well on the touch based controls. Most of the games that need the physical controls are retro ports or run through emulators all of which are illegal.

So they are kind of stuck in that the market for the device consists primarily of people who want to do stuff that Apple and the companies that own the IP will never approve of. The people that own the rights to the old games are not likely to make their own 30-pin hardware add-ons because it merely emphasises the lameness of their product. They are much more likely to release an iPhone emulator product like the Commodore 64 thing, or to port their old games to the new platform directly to collect new sales. The people that want to play their old retro games on the iPhone with the iControlPad, mostly don't want to pay for them.

It's possible that the makers of iControlPad might eventually get together with or be bought out by the owners of the IP I suppose.
post #59 of 198
AI is not cheerleading.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009...fx7060690.html
David Dolan and Yumi Horie of Reuters wrote the article. They wrote:
"Nintendo's portable game machine, the DS, also faces increasing competition from Apple Inc's iPhone, which has become a popular platform for handheld games."
Also here,
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/0...ch_us_nintendo
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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post #60 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKWalsh4 View Post

Today's article in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/...profits&st=cse

Sorry, I missed your article. This particular Reuters news item suffers from the same deficit like the last one (which the NYT actually only paraphrased): It's completely unclear how this claim came to be. It lacks any kind of reference, even a questionable one. The author of the news item just drops this sentence without any context. Therefore it sounds to me like interpretation on the authors parts.


Quote:
Certainly you're not suggesting the NY Times gets it's information from AI?

With the recent economic downturn and the decline of most newspapers it wouldn't actually surprise me of it did.
post #61 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?

my kids are bored after 3 weeks with DS AND WII games
at 50 bucks a pop
i have stopped buying
yet we still play halo and COD for mac yrs later

more halo & COD TITLES SHOULD Come to the mac platform
or else we are forced to buy windows 7 to play whats new .

the ease of use and great screens and 2 gpu chips makes apple the future 3d gaming platform.

a larger touch or small tablet can sell in the tens of millions

i think
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post #62 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

And I would hope you aren't basing your argument off of one line in the article. The rest talks about pressure from the PSP and Sony. Yes, Apple has cut in to the DS sales, but only a little bit; no where as big as this AI article makes it out like.

Please learn to read all of the words: "Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone." (This quote taken from AI original story.)
Nowhere does it say that iPhone is main reason for sales drop.
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post #63 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

AI is not cheerleading.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009...fx7060690.html
David Dolan and Yumi Horie of Reuters wrote the article. They wrote:
"Nintendo's portable game machine, the DS, also faces increasing competition from Apple Inc's iPhone, which has become a popular platform for handheld games."
Also here,
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/0...ch_us_nintendo

It's the same article of Reuters
post #64 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

AI is not cheerleading.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009...fx7060690.html
David Dolan and Yumi Horie of Reuters wrote the article. They wrote:
"Nintendo's portable game machine, the DS, also faces increasing competition from Apple Inc's iPhone, which has become a popular platform for handheld games."
Also here,
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/0...ch_us_nintendo

Sigh, you do realize that both of your links point the same news item which originated from Reuters?
post #65 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?

All my teen nieces and nephews now have touches or iPhones and I rarely see the PSP or DS anymore.
post #66 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Please learn to read all of the words: "Those losses, in part, were attributed to increased competition, including Apple's iPhone." (This quote taken from AI original story.)
Nowhere does it say that iPhone is main reason for sales drop.

Title: Nintendo profits freefall as iPhone cuts into portable game sales

Subtitle: Japanese game maker Nintendo's profits were cut in half, as sales of its portable Nintendo DS system continue to feel the impact of the iPhone and iPod touch.


But yes, we have to read all the words, AI is not saying that the main factor is Apple
post #67 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ive seen young kids be able to use my iPhone and learn to navigate the pages to find games and go back using the Home Screen astonishing quick, but the lack of a D-Pad can make it less than ideal for the way games have been designed for 30 years now. Now that v3.0 has allowed for 30-pin connector access I expected to see some D-pads on the market for the holidays. Actually, Im surprised Im not seeing more accessories on the market for the Touch and iPhone.

I feel there are lots of roadblocks that cause hesitation on the part of hardware manufacturers:

1. You really need a killer app to help drive hardware sales. Nintendo's games intuitively marry their system's unique hardware with software that is both easy to pick up and play. Would the Wii have been succesful if it didn't have Wii Sports and instead relied on 3rd party developers to incorporate the Wiimote control scheme? Apple doesn't make games, so it's not going to establish the add-onmarket. There are some good games on the iPhone platform, but do any of the companies making these games have the capital to manufacture a hardware?

2. Hardware One-upsmanship. Do I get the one with the d-pad and two buttons, or the one with three buttons, or two buttons with two shoulder buttons, or the one with the analog stick, or the one that has it's own battery that extends the playing time of the iPhone, or the one that incorporates its own stereo speakers, etc, etc. If there is confusion over which hardware for the customers to purchase, then for which hardware do the software companies develop their software?

3. Do you develop your game to work both with and without the additional hardware? How much additional time does that take? Is there a large enough market of people owning that piece of hardware to justify developing the game for the platform? Wii Sports would be dull if you just used a regular NES controller.

4. Separate shopping experiences. You buy your games on your phone or computer in the iTunes Store with instant delivery and you buy the hardware in a brick&mortar store or online with delivery. How do the software and hardware companies overcome this procedural gap?

I don't think any of these things are insurmountable, but I do see them as legitimate concerns that slow the development of addons. In my view, I think it would be wise for some of the more active iPhone developers to adopt some sort of standards and reach out to a hardware manufacturer to create the device. Maybe the iFund companies work on this.
post #68 of 198
edits
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post #69 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

What games was he playing? Were they the same or similar games to those he has on the DS/PSP?

Mostly Mario/Zelda types on the Ds, which don't have a real competitor on the iPhone OS and the other is the Metal Gear Solid series (PSP) vs the Metal Gear for the iPhone. I question whether the controls for the iPhone/Touch will ever be able to match true portable gaming system.
post #70 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post

Title: Nintendo profits freefall as iPhone cuts into portable game sales

Subtitle: Japanese game maker Nintendo's profits were cut in half, as sales of its portable Nintendo DS system continue to feel the impact of the iPhone and iPod touch.


But yes, we have to read all the words, AI is not saying that the main factor is Apple

Exactly.

Who said that the iPhone/iPod is the main reason, anyway?

The industry has acknolwdged the iPhone/iPod is a factor. It doesn't take a lot of brain cells to understand this, and I'm not sure why a lot of people here have trouble understanding this.

So no, you don't need to think for yourself when the facts are already there. Just parrot the facts, because they're . . . facts.
post #71 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Exactly.

Who said that the iPhone/iPod is the main reason, anyway?

The industry has acknolwdged the iPhone/iPod is a factor. It doesn't take a lot of brain cells to understand this, and I'm not sure why a lot of people here have trouble understanding this.

So no, you don't need to think for yourself when the facts are already there. Just parrot the facts, because they're . . . facts.

I thought that my English comprehension is perhaps weak but yours is a lot worse.

My God, you don't live in this reality, you live far beyond any RDF
post #72 of 198
Seriously? The iPhone and iPod? The fact that Wii sales have pretty much decreased with the same amount has nothing to do with it?

I'm okay with the apple love, but there are limits, the reality-distortion-field is unfortunately a skill limited to el Jobso.
post #73 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisc77 View Post

To me it seems unlikely that iPhone or iPod Touch had that much of a significant impact on Nintendo's portable sales. Another example of Apple cheer-leading by AI.

What does seem likely is that we are 1) in a recession 2) somewhat stale hardware 3) everybody and their brother already has a Ds. Sure some impact from the touch, but I have yet to any kid dropping the Ds for the games on the Touch.

I've even asked my 9-yr old about the Touch, and he said it was too hard to control compared his Ds or PSP.

Thoughts?

We are in a recession; however, Apple made 1.67 Billion in profit this quarter (biggest in their history)...so recession is not the problem.

Yes, everyone has a DS including my kid (11 yrs), he's using the ipod Touch more and I asked him why. He said that he loves the ability to download so many different games for free; he never gets bored trying new games. Add to that, the variety of games, utilities and everything else offered on the App store and it suddenly becomes attractive to everyone.....and as a parent, I'm not buying those $50 games anymore...thank goodness.

I found myself playing with the iPod Touch and I got an iPhone. I hope the iPhone gets some serious competition, it will make things better for us consumers. But as a developer, why waste time on an app for the palm or Droid when the iPhone is a sure bet. Thats the tough part for competitors and their "App stores".

So, yes, I'm sure Nintendo sees their profit cut in half while Apple has the biggest quarter in history and says....hmmmm?
post #74 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

We are in a recession; however, Apple made 1.67 Billion in profit this quarter (biggest in their history)...so recession is not the problem.

At least not in the market segment Apple is making most of it's money. It would be still interesting to learn where the money is coming from. Are Apple customers in positions which are not affected by the recession in a significant way? Or will they be hit with a delay since it's been pointed out that the job market will decline in the coming months since a lot of state financed programs world-wide are coming to their end? Interestingly enough, I've just read today that granted subprime credits reached a pre-criss volume again. \
post #75 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post


Since I'm having an academic background it actually scares me each time that there are people in the western world which still cling to so-called common sense.

Excuse me , I think your "elitism" is showing!

IMHO there is a strong and opposite correlation between "an academic background" and common sense. There are a lot of "non academic but brilliant and gifted" people and "academic but stupid" people (does George Bush ring a bell?) in this world. It would be a mistake to think one group is better than the other.
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post #76 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

I hope you at least bought it supper first

good one...especially coming from a guy with salt in his name lol maybe he meant he's having an attack of some sort... having an attack of Engrish.
post #77 of 198
I have two boys under 10 years old who are slowly migrating away from DS and Wii to the iPod touches and Mac games. This is a double whammy for Nintendo as they also lose revenue on those expensive, high-margin games. Nintendo's biggest asset, as far as I can tell in this neighborhood, is the Mario franchise. Both boys are going as Mario this year for Halloween.

As a parent, all I can say is thank god for the shift. Huge savings along with sprinkling educational Apps here and there to make mommy feel good.

For what it's worth, my favorite iPod touch game is Frenzic. A clever, addictive finger buster.
post #78 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I would say thats pretty clear to all of us. I have never seen anyone take such pleasure in seeing other companies have a rough patch. It much be a Canadian thing. Funny how when AI posts something like Apple going to Verizon or Windows 7 being a good product the review is BS. But when they post something you like its total scripture.

Are you suggesting that everyone who posts here is a Canadian? .... Wow! ... I guess that all of my flag waving is paying off.
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post #79 of 198
I'd still like to see someone make an official buttons shell. There are some kinds of games that simply doesn't play well with touch.
post #80 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Excuse me , I think your "elitism" is showing!

IMHO there is a strong and opposite correlation between "an academic background" and common sense. There are a lot of "non academic but brilliant and gifted" people and "academic but stupid" people (does George Bush ring a bell?) in this world. It would be a mistake to think one group is better than the other.

It's a bit off-topic but nevertheless: I would never want to imply otherwise and it wasn't really meant to indicate any kind of superiority on my part (which I would never dare since I've met a lot of people during my university years who are clearly more intelligent than me, including my girl-friend). My comment about my background was more aimed at the fact that from early on the lecturers tried to teach us to critically evaluate information and common sense is in many ways the anti-theses to critical evaluation. It's a cop-out. In my experience people resort to "common sense" exactly when they can't coherently explain their argument. Common sense implies that there are a lot of people thinking the same way (security in numbers, although usually not proved as well that the numbers are indeed on their side), that the numbers correlate in any way with the truthfulness of the statement and worse that the one arguing against what is "common sense" is somehow and outsider of the society.
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