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iTunes 9.0.2 connects with Apple TV 3.0, kills Palm Pre sync

post #1 of 93
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On the heels of the Apple TV 3.0 software update Thursday, Apple also updated iTunes to version 9.0.2, bringing compatibility with the updated set top box and again nixing sync capabilities with the Palm Pre.

With the latest update, iTunes will be able to communicate with the new Apple TV 3.0 software update for both Windows and Mac users.

The new iTunes update also adds an option for a dark background for Grid View, and improves support for accessibility. The 88.5MB update is available via Software Update or direct from Apple. It requires Mac OS X 10.4.11 or later, Windows Vista 64, Windows XP SP 2 or later, and Windows 7.

Continuing the back-and-forth battle between Palm and Apple, the latest update also reportedly disables the ability of the Pre to sync with iTunes, according to Precentral.net. With the latest update, iTunes will allegedly launch when a Pre is connected to a computer via USB, but the handset does not show up as a device in the sidebar.

Apple and Palm have battled for months in a cat and mouse game, as Palm has updated its phones to trick iTunes into syncing music, and Apple has updated iTunes to disable it. Both have released numerous updates since the Palm Pre was released this summer.

Palm believes that Apple's prevention of non-sanctioned devices from communicating with its iTunes media software is unfair, and it appealed to the USB Implementers Forum in an effort to have the iPhone maker's practices reversed. But the USB-IF instead sided with Apple in September, noting that iTunes' method of identifying Apple devices was within the consortium's rules.

The USB-IF also reprimanded Palm for violating the group's rules by improperly using Apple's USB vendor ID to have iTunes recognize the Pre as an iPod.

"Under the Policy, Palm may only use the single Vendor ID issued to Palm for Palm’s usage," the USB-IF said in a letter to Palm. "Usage of any other company’s Vendor ID is specifically precluded. Palm’s expressed intent to use Apple’s VID appears to violate the attached policy."
post #2 of 93
Since Palm has clearly violated USB-IF rules and USB-IF has sided with Apple, then why aren't they being reprimanded?

That is unless Apple feels sorry for them because Palm is desperate.
post #3 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Since Palm has clearly violated USB-IF rules and USB-IF has sided with Apple, then why aren't they being reprimanded?

Betting that USB-IF has no actual teeth. It's not like they can tell Palm to stop using the ID, right?
post #4 of 93
You know...I was just thinking, this might be more than just Apple saying "You can't play in our sandbox." If Apple doesn't actively prevent Palm from directly syncing with iTunes, it can be seen as tacit approval. Said approval implies support. Which then places Apple in the position of having to field support requests/issues relating to syncing a third party device.

To me it's similar reasoning as that shown by Apple in the way they do Boot Camp. Windows is not a build to order option with a computer purchased from Apple mainly because as the OEM they would then have to provide the tech support. In the case of Boot Camp they're a hardware manufacturer and that's it. They provide drivers. If you have problems with Windows on your Mac it's not in Apple's court (generally).
post #5 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Betting that USB-IF has no actual teeth. It's not like they can tell Palm to stop using the ID, right?

Not really, but what they can do is tell Palm that they're not allowed to say they have USB support. In order to claim that your device has to be approved by USB-IF, and breaking the rules (using someone else's ID) could be cause for revocation of their USB license.

It's the same thing with wi-fi. In order to say that your device supports 802.11n you have to send one to the IEEE who checks it out and makes sure that it's in-line with the spec. If it's not then you can't put the wi-fi logo, 802.11n or anything else like that on the box. You could still sell it, but you can't use any of the above terms.
post #6 of 93
I'm not sure which is more funnier, the Pre drama or the Psystar drama.
post #7 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donathius View Post

Not really, but what they can do is tell Palm that they're not allowed to say they have USB support. In order to claim that your device has to be approved by USB-IF, and breaking the rules (using someone else's ID) could be cause for revocation of their USB license.

It's the same thing with wi-fi. In order to say that your device supports 802.11n you have to send one to the IEEE who checks it out and makes sure that it's in-line with the spec. If it's not then you can't put the wi-fi logo, 802.11n or anything else like that on the box. You could still sell it, but you can't use any of the above terms.

So a few teeth. What happens if Palm continues to disregard this, and continues to use USB in their marketing? Does USB-IF have to sue to stop use?

I would think that Palm would want to play nice on this, since they might have another device to send them in the future. Then again, if the palm fails, they might not.
post #8 of 93
Does anyone know if this version irons out the issues with syncing the older iPod Classics?
post #9 of 93
I wonder how long it takes Palm to re-enable their hack.
post #10 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfeend View Post

Does anyone know if this version irons out the issues with syncing the older iPod Classics?

Not sure if this qualifies as "older" but I just synced my 160GB Classic iPod from a few years back. No problems.
post #11 of 93
Palm just give the fuck up already and just make a Palm equivalent to Blackberry Media Sync. Damn it can't be that hard!
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post #12 of 93
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
post #13 of 93
I don't know, but I would be a pretty pissed off Palm user if I had to update my OS every time a new version of iTunes came out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

I wonder how long it takes Palm to re-enable their hack.
post #14 of 93
If the Palm people insist on sneaking around under Apple's nose and refuse to make good faith efforts to reach agreements and/or pay fees to Apple to allow iTunes sync, then this casts a bad light on the company overall.

They do not deserve to be successful until they get honest with everyone.

Daniel Swanson

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post #15 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.

Maybe Palm is like the kid who tries to cheat off of you during the final exam. They didn't study or do their homework and now they just wanna cheat off of you.
post #16 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.

Actually, you don't know what you're talking about. Your comparison is crap (i.e.- not the same thing at all), I don't know what the heck you think you're referring to with the "play nice" comment, and the other stuff is pure projection on your part.
post #17 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Maybe Palm is like the kid who tries to cheat off of you during the final exam. They didn't study or do their homework and now they just wanna cheat off of you.

Just how is it cheating? My Logitech Squeezebox Duet syncs with iTunes. Is that cheating, too?
post #18 of 93
"iTunes 9.0.2 connects with Apple TV 3.0, kills Palm Pre sync!"

Gotta love this Hatfield / McCoy feud... If anything, I bet it's increased Apple releases and "that's a good thing", according to Martha Stewart.

I have a feeling a minor iTunes 9.0.3 update is already being worked on for when Palm hacks and syncs as a fake iPod once again!

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post #19 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Just how is it cheating? My Logitech Squeezebox Duet syncs with iTunes. Is that cheating, too?

Streaming from iTunes to a Logitech, Roku, PS3 whatever is not the same a synching. We're talking about iTunes itself copying songs directly to a device. Cheating meaning that Palm, instead of creating their own media-syncing program like Blackberry did (for example), instead choose to falsify the USB ID on their Pre so that it can directly sync with iTunes. Yeah, sounds like cheating to me.
post #20 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Palm just give the fuck up already and just make a Palm equivalent to Blackberry Media Sync. Damn it can't be that hard!

I have some theories. Palm is being cheap, but is also getting free advertising from it. I know BB users that didnt know RiM made an app to read the iTunes DB and sync their music. I have to assume that many people buying the Pre are likely anti-Apple or anti-iPhone, so these people are probably going to see this as a fuck you to Apple every time Palm breaks the USB-IFs rules and spoofs an iPod.
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post #21 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Just how is it cheating? My Logitech Squeezebox Duet syncs with iTunes. Is that cheating, too?

No, that's Apple saying I don't have a beef with you because you didn't belittle our product, then hired away multiple Apple talent to create a competing product, that has the nerve of using our iTunes service for syncing purposes by lying to iTunes by saying the Palm PRE is a iPod (which representing yourself as something you are not, there has to be a legal ramification in there somewhere for that falsehood, otherwise I'll call my Volkswagon a Porshe and say that's legit because they're both German cars!)...

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post #22 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Just how is it cheating? My Logitech Squeezebox Duet syncs with iTunes. Is that cheating, too?

Do you not realize that Apple does not encrypt the iTunes DB files and doesnt hide the media from being used by other apps. There are plenty of programs on the up-and-up that connect to sync with the iTunes DB. They do not access the iTunes app and pretend to be an iPod because they were too lazy to build there own app. They are not breaking the USB-IFs rule of correctly displaying what device you are.
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post #23 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.

You obviously don't understand the issue, or don't care to. Nothing is stopping Palm from making or licensing an app that syncs with iTunes just fine. Other companies do that, and Apple merrily lets them. These apps let Blackberries, Sonys, Creatives, etc. easily sync.

With Palm, the Pre fools iTunes into thinking that it's an iPod. This is hacking, and in another context could get you time in jail.
post #24 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donathius View Post

You know...I was just thinking, this might be more than just Apple saying "You can't play in our sandbox." If Apple doesn't actively prevent Palm from directly syncing with iTunes, it can be seen as tacit approval. Said approval implies support. Which then places Apple in the position of having to field support requests/issues relating to syncing a third party device.

To me it's similar reasoning as that shown by Apple in the way they do Boot Camp. Windows is not a build to order option with a computer purchased from Apple mainly because as the OEM they would then have to provide the tech support. In the case of Boot Camp they're a hardware manufacturer and that's it. They provide drivers. If you have problems with Windows on your Mac it's not in Apple's court (generally).

you are so correct apple should support palm pre
and any one who wants in on the monopoly itunes
sadly apple is now worse than msft
my iphone is a frisbee
<<<< my best teckstud imatation while he is banned >>>
whats in a name ? 
beatles
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post #25 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I'm not sure which is more funnier, the Pre drama or the Psystar drama.

haha superb post.

I d let palm sync with iTunes if I were apple, you are getting people used to and connected via your own platform and you are thus enabling them to sometime switch over to the iPhone since they are so well versed with it. You are not alienating them either thinking they are refused, although rightly so, people being people and always having a sense of entitletement some of them might even blame apple. Also you are throwing dust in the eyes of palm by letting them think they shouldn't try harder for their own platform. I think it's the wrong choice to not let them sync with iTunes, I feel quite sure about that.
post #26 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

you are so correct apple should support palm pre
and any one who wants in on the monopoly itunes
sadly apple is now worse than msft
my iphone is a frisbee
<<<< my best teckstud imatation while he is banned >>>

HAHA And nice signature. Unfortunately, hes back as mrkoolaid.
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post #27 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

I think it's the wrong choice to not let them sync with iTunes, I feel quite sure about that.

If Apple did let the Pre sync with iTunes then they'd have to let everyone else as well. That would erode iPod and iPhone sales and create a support nightmare for Apple. Right or wrong, I think it's better for Apple to stand their ground.
post #28 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

haha superb post.

I d let palm sync with iTunes if I were apple, you are getting people used to and connected via your own platform and you are thus enabling them to sometime switch over to the iPhone since they are so well versed with it. You are not alienating them either thinking they are refused, although rightly so, people being people and always having a sense of entitletement some of them might even blame apple. Also you are throwing dust in the eyes of palm by letting them think they shouldn't try harder for their own platform. I think it's the wrong choice to not let them sync with iTunes, I feel quite sure about that.

I thought that when Palm first did it, and that part of your argument is sound. Syncing to the iTunes DB files without accessing iTunes isnt good for business. The problem comes when other devices try to sync with iTunes. Apple may then be required to support these other devices in some way. There is also a problem if people buy iTunes Store videos and apps, and then wonder why they dont sync to their device. Yes, they would be idiots, but they may have a case. Apple already has enough foolish lawsuits, they may be just trying to keep it simple.
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post #29 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

you are so correct apple should support palm pre
and any one who wants in on the monopoly itunes
sadly apple is now worse than msft
my iphone is a frisbee
<<<< my best teckstud imatation while he is banned >>>

they banned techstud? why? we ve all got him on the ignore list. Btw why isn't this guy over the macrumors forums. That's the type of senseless den where his likes usually go. There is a guy over there going by the name of a gay adult "performer" and cokehead Aiden Shaw who will love to budfy up and match wits with tecstud: same non sequitors, crass attitude and Microsoft apologetic rants. And oh there are many more such types at macrumors, many many more. But come to think about it I wouldn't like segragating tecstud out of these forums, he s got a right to his opinion, and of course there's the ignore list.
post #30 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I thought that when Palm first did it, and that part of your argument is sound. Syncing to the iTunes DB files without accessing iTunes isnt good for business. The problem comes when other devices try to sync with iTunes. Apple may then be required to support these other devices in some way. There is also a problem if people buy iTunes Store videos and apps, and then wonder why they dont sync to their device. Yes, they would be idiots, but they may have a case. Apple already has enough foolish lawsuits, they may be just trying to keep it simple.

@rob too.

I can see the point you are making. It's a pandoras box and by them taking a clear stance they are nipping it in the bud. That said I can see a more moderate position of the allowing the palm to sync just out of courtesy and with a big disclaimer every time it syncs of the pifalls: something along the lines of apple allows other vendors to sync out of a spirit of plurality bu in no way supports or warranties the syncing processes. Of course like you said there are legal issues involved that I am scarcely aware of that might render this a losing proposition or a backdoor to all sorts of "bags of hurt" .
post #31 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep
you are so correct apple should support palm pre
and any one who wants in on the monopoly itunes
sadly apple is now worse than msft
my iphone is a frisbee
<<<< my best teckstud imatation while he is banned >>>

Damn i was having Nam like flashbacks then... you weren't there man...you weren't there..... techspuds in the trees man!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

HAHA And nice signature. Unfortunately, hes back as mrkoolaid.

HAH well that explains a lot. I was wondering why he had been so quiet of late and this new guy was being so vocal.

Oh yeah Apple good, Palm bad blah blah blah.

See you in 2 months for the same forum posts for 9.0.3 when that comes out.
post #32 of 93
When is the USB-IF ever going to take real action against Palm? Their 7 days is long gone.
post #33 of 93
While I find it hilarious some of you get your panties in a bunch anytime someone dares give it back to Apple there are solutions for you Pre owners out there (I should know I own one)

1. Have to use iTunes? Don't update!
2. Freakin' use drag-n-drop in USB mode!
3. Doubletwist!
You win, I've switched sides.
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post #34 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

they banned techstud? why? we ve all got him on the ignore list. Btw why isn't this guy over the macrumors forums. That's the type of senseless den where his likes usually go. There is a guy over there going by the name of a gay adult "performer" and cokehead Aiden Shaw who will love to budfy up and match wits with tecstud: same non sequitors, crass attitude and Microsoft apologetic rants. And oh there are many more such types at macrumors, many many more. But come to think about it I wouldn't like segragating tecstud out of these forums, he s got a right to his opinion, and of course there's the ignore list.

Wow... between your fear of homosexuals and anyone who might enjoy a little MS love once in awhile I'd have to say you're going on my ignore list.
You win, I've switched sides.
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post #35 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

So a few teeth. What happens if Palm continues to disregard this, and continues to use USB in their marketing? Does USB-IF have to sue to stop use?

I would think that Palm would want to play nice on this, since they might have another device to send them in the future. Then again, if the palm fails, they might not.

I don't know for sure about USB-IF but I know that in the case of 802.11 (my father is on the IEEE board) that IEEE actually owns the copyright for wi-fi, 802.11, etc. You have to have their permission to use those terms in you product packaging, advertising, etc. If USB-IF has something similar for USB then it would be a copyright lawsuit. Palm would still be free to use the USB protocol, just not the term USB (or Universal Serial Bus for that matter).
post #36 of 93
How do you set the background to dark, I can't seem to find the option anywhere
post #37 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddyjack21 View Post

How do you set the background to dark, I can't seem to find the option anywhere

iTunes » Preferences... » General » Grid View: ?
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post #38 of 93
Hahahhaa yup totally missed it thanks I was looking under Veiw
post #39 of 93
Good.
post #40 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.

Are you just trolling? Apple devoted extensive engineering resources to develop iTunes, QuickTime and Safari for Windows. They wrote their own apps to run under Windows and allow iPod owners to use a PC rather than restricting themselves to the Mac market. How does that compare to Palm Pre's refusal to write its own software but instead to make their customers rely on a hack that attempts to fool someone else's software to operate as though another vendor's product was connected? Even more egregious is that Apple provides an API for third parties to write plugins so they can use iTunes. This whole episode is just bizarre because it makes so little sense.

On the subject of "wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software" you have to be ill informed or naive to not be familiar with Microsoft's history of dirty tricks and third party software (Lotus, Word Perfect, etc).
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