[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
I strongly disagree, and I'm coming from a position where people in my family have learning disabilities, and where my mother is a teacher and a former director of SPED in a public school system.
Yes, there are different ways to teach, and yes not all students are at the point where it would be impossible for them to pass a standardized test, but it is WRONG to think that throwing money into SPED programs is going to 'magically' allow all of the students in these programs to pass a standardized test. It just won't happen.
Accountability through testing is wrong. Plain and simple. These plans do nothing more than reform public education to teaching to the test. If you have tests that people have to pass to earn their high school diploma, even if they can pass the CLASSES, there will always be students that can't pass, no matter what the circumstances.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]....but it is WRONG to think that throwing money into SPED programs is going to 'magically' allow all of the students in these programs to pass a standardized test. It just won't happen. <hr></blockquote>
---What? Which party is known for just throwing money at problems here, Fran? The Republicans? RIGHT! The Democrats have been throwing money at education for years and it is getting worse, not better. That is Bush's whole point....money must be tied to performance. The man WANTS more money....but only when he sees it is beeing used appropriately....that is what getting an MBA teaches you I imagine.
[quote] Accountability through testing is wrong. Plain and simple. <hr></blockquote>
---OMFG!!!!! How will you measure performance, with a yard stick? This is how almost ALL grades are calculated in this nation, K-12 and beyond. Of course there are other methods but this is the primary one. Are you telling me that I should have to take teacher certification exams but my students shouldn't have to take tests? What?
[quote] These plans do nothing more than reform public education to teaching to the test. <hr></blockquote>
---Well, Fran, we can actually use Mr. Bush's own words to support this one. "Some say this will create a situation in which we teach to the test. But, if the test [meets its objective of measuring the learning of clearly defined concepts], then that is the whole idea".
I agree we need to be careful about what is on these tests. That is the thing. See below...
[quote] If you have tests that people have to pass to earn their high school diploma, even if they can pass the CLASSES, there will always be students that can't pass, no matter what the circumstances <hr></blockquote>
Well, this is the whole point. What are schools teaching? What are students learning? We will finally have clearly defined national benchmarks on basic concepts that every student should know. I said EVERY student, Fran. If the student can't learn and remember the material (again, assuming that they are not severly disabled) then guess what? NO DILPMOA FOR HE/SHE!!!! Passing a class without learning is quite possible...you know that. A diploma is supposed to be an indicator that someone has learned, not just gotten grades. And believe me, there is a difference.
You are a bleeding heart! Not everyone is meant to have a HS diploma. If we implement this system, not everyone will get one. Those who cannot pass the test will get a certificate of attendance. They will also be able to show that they passed classes, but, they were unable to pass the test for any number of reasons. Guess what, Fran? If one can't pass tests for whatever reason in school he/she is not going to be able to do it in the workforce either!
This is the whole problem. We socially promote students for their own self-esteem and because "they worked so hard" That is total bullshit. Everyone has different gifts and talents and not everyone is created equal. Lots of high school grads cannot read and write and we have to put a stop to that. Let them leave school but don't give them a diploma.
While we are at it, why don't we say that if one cannot pass tests in college, she/he should still get a diploma? After all, it is that person's RIGHT to have an education....
We do need to monitor what is on the test. That is the problem and I'll agree that this needs to be done well for this program to be effective. I have taken teacher certification tests that, quite frankly, are a joke. So, this is something that must be addressed.
As far as everyone having a right to an education, well in K-12 they DO. But, they don't have a right to a piece of paper that says "I learned.....I did the work and I overcame and dealt with my own limitations and talents"....when that person didn't actually do those things. What distinguishes that person from someone who actually DID those things?
You are a fool.
[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]
[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
To save time, assume I know everything.
To save time, assume I know everything.