Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss
The obvious answer is that a week in the hospital can easily cost $100k and treatment for a chronic disease, hundreds of thousands. And you lower those costs to what, and how, exactly? And you pay these costs for the uninsured who need these services, how exactly?
Ask the doctors and owners of the hospital. They are the ones that set the costs.
The second answer is that if you walk (or are carried) into a hospital without insurance, the bill to you as an individual will be two or three times higher than the hospital would accept from an insurance company as payment for the exact same services. So what do those services actually cost? People who know a lot more about this than you or I can't make any sense of this utterly bizarre system.
And that makes it ok how? Who sets the costs again?
I have never claimed that healthcare is a "right." I just think the current system is wasteful, inefficient, unfair, and is eating our economy alive. Good enough reasons to seek changes to it, I'd have thought. Maybe not for everyone.
Perhaps you have not, but there are many others in this thread who have. I agree there are changes needed, but I don't necessarily agree with the methods moving forward at this time.
No matter. You completely undermined any defense from the charge that you don't really care when you described healthcare as a "luxury." Not sure why it took so long for you to admit that you believe that some people deserve healthcare and others don't. As I've said so many times, I think we need to have an honest debate about healthcare. I think the outcome would be vastly different if more of the opponents to reform confessed to what they really believe.
You can read into it whatever you like but that was not the message. The message was, healthcare is not a right, and a good piece of evidence is the cost of healthcare. I stated very clearly that it is a need or even at times a want. Some portions of healthcare are a need, and then there are the wants as well. I then went on to state that things that cost too much are either a want or a luxury. Spin it however you wish, it does not change the fact that you are spinning it into a falsehood.
The issue this always comes back to is the cost. Going back to the first quote in this post, why are those cost so high? How much of that is building cost, how much is fancy equipment, how much is doctors salary, and how much is pure profit? Ever looked at a hospital bill? What do they charge you for an aspirin? (Hint, it is much more than the pills cost.) The hospitals and the doctors set the rates, the insurance companies have found ways to bring those costs down for themselves, likely because they have collective bargaining strength through the sheer number of patients they represent.
Root issues, stop trying to deflect the issue to me, or anyone else that does not set the costs.