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Obama: It's Still Bush's Fault

post #1 of 419
11/5/09 at 7:32am
Thread Starter 
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldN...43692420091104

Well, he's at it again. "This is all Bush's fault" is still a centerpiece of the Obama political strategy. One has to wonder at what point he will take responsibility the government has made worse, if not outright created in the last year. My favorite line from the article is this:

[quote]But he said his administration was also confronted with a "financial crisis that threatened to plunge our economy into a Great Depression, the worst that we've seen in generations."

Quote:
"We had record deficits, two wars, frayed alliances around the world," Obama added.

What? We have deficits far greater than we had under Bush. We still have two wars, it's just that Obama is ignoring them. Our alliances are no better than they ever were. Obama has failed in almost every aspect of his job. And it's Bush's fault.

At this point I begin to think he will never claim responsibility. If things don't improve though, the voters will hold his party responsible. People were willing to blame Bush for the past year. But memories are short. They will soon hold the controlling party to account.

Your thoughts.
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post #2 of 419
11/5/09 at 7:48am
William McGurn at the WSJ calls him the "Post-Gracious President".
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post #3 of 419
11/5/09 at 8:35am
This is simply a classic case of overpromising and underdelivering. It's becoming obvious that BHO is too young to play hardball with the likes of Putin -- he's simply an empty suit or a ineffectual neophyte -- wet behind the ears, but with a fawning PR team.


We were told three years ago that "it was going to take a woman to clean the House". We were told that all would be made well, we'd be out of Iraq, the World would stop jostling us for dominancy, and on, and on, and on. The promises reached crackheaded surreal levels a year ago. Nothing, but nothing has changed.

(Wait, I take that back, BHO has made it easier to get an abortion. And we are spending money we don't have faster than ever.)

Now, with majorities in both houses we are supposed to take news stories on how Olympia Snowe is "crossing the isle to make progress happen"...



...BHO's got a majority -- but we're really, really, really supposed to take that story seriously. It's beyond ineffable.

Wall Street is whispering in his ear, Putin can't even make time to see Clinton when she's in town -- even after giving away Missile Defense on the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland -- and "National Security" is still trumping the the warm and fuzzy.

BHO is an empty suit with a pandering penchant -- that's it. Give the people more, and tax the unborn, when you're not vacuuming their brains out, that is.

That seems to be his answer for everything.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #4 of 419
11/5/09 at 9:52am
What a lot of us said about Obama back during the election is that he really hasn't done that much. Never wrote or passed any major legislation either at the state or federal level. Wasn't in the Senate that long before running. Never had any major successes in any enterprise outside of public office. Never held an executive position of any kind. Although he claimed to be bipartisan he never showed a single instance where he was.

Rather he kinda vaulted out of sleepy old Hyde Park where it's hard for someone like him to lose an election.


I guess we're vindicated.\
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #5 of 419
11/5/09 at 10:05am
when will it be obama's presidency???
he is acting like a substitute teacher
the more he whines the more he looks weak, and doesn't know what he is doing, maybe its above HIS paygrade, but a leader he is not, he can rule but he is not leading
he looks weak and he should stop this and lead....he already got the peace prize they can't take that away so do what you said during the campaign in afganistan,
oh i'm sorry he is not comfortable with the concept of "victory" he can win this just get off his a...s and lead.
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post #6 of 419
11/5/09 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

What a lot of us said about Obama back during the election is that he really hasn't done that much. Never wrote or passed any major legislation either at the state or federal level. Wasn't in the Senate that long before running. Never had any major successes in any enterprise outside of public office. Never held an executive position of any kind. Although he claimed to be bipartisan he never showed a single instance where he was.

Rather he kinda vaulted out of sleepy old Hyde Park where it's hard for someone like him to lose and election.


I guess we're vindicated.\

I don't want any vindication. I want to see change and leadership. And if he can't do it, we need to get someone in there that can. If the Republicans and Democrats have nothing better to offer, then lets find someone who is better. Being a part of a political party is not a constitutional requirement to run for political office. People need to stop acting like it is.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #7 of 419
11/5/09 at 11:12am
You know, I thought that BHO had an intelligence advantage in that he would at least be clever -- able to wheel-and-deal with someone like Putin -- I thought that "getting along" would come with a little quid pro quo.

He can't even manage that.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #8 of 419
11/5/09 at 4:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

You know, I thought that BHO had an intelligence advantage in that he would at least be clever -- able to wheel-and-deal with someone like Putin -- I thought that "getting along" would come with a little quid pro quo.

He can't even manage that.

It's not just his inexperience, either. I think that despite his academic pedigree...the man is not that intelligent. He shows poor judgement and has a worldview totally contrary to America's founders. Don't get me wrong...he's no boob. It's just that he's nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is.
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post #9 of 419
11/6/09 at 8:43am

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #10 of 419
11/7/09 at 3:58am
Thread Starter 
Here's a quick article on Obama's wholly inappropriate response to the Ft. Hood shooting:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/polit...President.html
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post #11 of 419
11/7/09 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Here's a quick article on Obama's wholly inappropriate response to the Ft. Hood shooting:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/polit...President.html

Anyone got a link to the transcript? Perhaps the up front content was not appropriately placed and should have been altered a bit, but nothing in that story tells me his speech was wholly inappropriate.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #12 of 419
11/7/09 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Anyone got a link to the transcript? Perhaps the up front content was not appropriately placed and should have been altered a bit, but nothing in that story tells me his speech was wholly inappropriate.

The you are not a true Teabagger, or a true Birther, or a true Dittohead, or a true Palinite, or even a true member of the rapidly shrinking fringe group formally known as conservatives.

Remember that no matter what Obama does it must be evil and bad and just not right.

Obama is Hitler Part Deux.

Here, drink another Kup of Krazy KuKKoo KoKKeyed Konservative Kool-Aid.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #13 of 419
11/7/09 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The you are not a true Teabagger, or a true Birther, or a true Dittohead, or a true Palinite, or even a true member of the rapidly shrinking fringe group formally known as conservatives.

Remember that no matter what Obama does it must be evil and bad and just not right.

Obama is Hitler Part Deux.

Here, drink another Kup of Krazy KuKKoo KoKKeyed Konservative Kool-Aid.

Post a link please, I can do without the rest. I am truly tired of the over the top posts in many of these threads.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #14 of 419
11/7/09 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Post a link please, I can do without the rest. I am truly tired of the over the top posts in many of these threads.

Talk to the drive-by poster above then, as they are only capable of seeing evil in Obama.

Don't complain to me as I am not a Believer.

I only deal in facts and trolling for K-K-Konservatives in this ultimate cesspool of political quackery.

Quote:
Robert A George is an editorial writer for the New York Post and a conservative/libertarian blogger and pundit.

George worked for the Republican National Committee and, following the 1994 midterm elections, Speaker of the House of Representatives Newt Gingrich.

"Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting" get's all of 284 hits on Google.

BTW, let me give you a hint of where to look, as it took me all of 1E-99999999999999999 seconds to find it. The Rock Obama lives there. \

Or, go back to the above extreme-bias-with-intent-editorial-hit-piece and go to that Ragged Turds blog link at the bottom. \ \

It would appear as if K-K-Konservatives a just a little wee bit .... off the mark.

Quote:
Words by The Rock Obama at the End of the Tribal Nations Conference

Not exactly like that fucktard Bush lying our way into Iraq, or reading to school childern while people died on 9-11, or letting 1,100 people die during Katrina.

Oh, and for the record, that same fucktard, Bush, was the official POTUS when this recession started. Therefore, Bush will forever be known as Hoover Part Deux.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #15 of 419
11/7/09 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The you are not a true Teabagger, or a true Birther, or a true Dittohead, or a true Palinite, or even a true member of the rapidly shrinking fringe group formally known as conservatives.

Remember that no matter what Obama does it must be evil and bad and just not right.

Obama is Hitler Part Deux.

Here, drink another Kup of Krazy KuKKoo KoKKeyed Konservative Kool-Aid.

Nonsense. As much as anyone didn't want BHO in the OO -- I did the right thing and voted Libertarian -- it's fair to say even the most conservative here thought he would at least be clever.

What has changed? Except for more abortions?

Certainly the financial side is just as big a whorehouse as it was a year ago -- and this is the man who fed everyone nothing but hope and change, and how "eight years of failed policy" was the cause of the mess. And we are getting business as ususal. It's not too much to ask that ding-a-ling pay off some of that gobbledygook he was preaching a year ago.

But then someone did warn you about this, about a year ago....

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #16 of 419
11/7/09 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Nonsense. As much as anyone didn't want BHO in the OO -- I did the right thing and voted Libertarian -- it's fair to say even the most conservative here thought he would at least be clever.

What has changed? Except for more abortions?

Certainly the financial side is just as big a whorehouse as it was a year ago -- and this is the man who fed everyone nothing but hope and change, and how "eight years of failed policy" was the cause of the mess. And we are getting business as ususal. It's not too much to ask that ding-a-ling pay off some of that gobbledygook he was preaching a year ago.

But then someone did warn you about this, about a year ago....

You voted for Bob Barr and Wayne Root? Those clowns were as clueless about Libertarianism as the Republican Party in general and their becoming the LP nominees was an aberration thanks to the long time Libertarians having made a one time defection to the Republican Party to vote for Ron Paul.

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GOA

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post #17 of 419
11/7/09 at 7:40pm
Given that Bush was the last at his post that could have done something about this the fact that it might have involved previous presidents is irrelevant. Obama inherited this mess which clearly started during the previous president's watch ( you know just like you guys harped about Clinton before Bush and the last recession ). Therefore it really does fall on the shouilders of Mr. Bush. There's no way to twist, spin, or mutilate the truth. He's at fault. Now if after his time in office Obama doesn't fix it then he can be blamed more than the in coming president. But for now Bush is on the hot seat.

If you disagree then all of your comments about Clinton or any other previous Democratic president instantly become meaningless.
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post #18 of 419
11/7/09 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

WTF with all the.... [Ed. dmz finds franksargent's bitch button] ...dipshitage of wordplay TYVM.

So you apparently believe in campaign promises? ....


I can only imagine the shitstorm we'd be in right now if McCain were POTUS.

...

Heh -- do you really think things would be ANY different (other than less abortions) had McCain gotten in? Are you kidding me?

Is there any conceivable way to get more Wall Street alum shaping our bailout policies? Maybe MORE money given the banks?




And yes, I do believe that some (at least one or two) campaign promises should be kept.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #19 of 419
11/7/09 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

You voted for Bob Barr and Wayne Root? Those clowns were as clueless about Libertarianism as the Republican Party in general and their becoming the LP nominees was an aberration thanks to the long time Libertarians having made a one time defection to the Republican Party to vote for Ron Paul.



Don't get me lying -- you've got to start somewhere.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #20 of 419
11/8/09 at 5:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Given that Bush was the last at his post that could have done something about this the fact that it might have involved previous presidents is irrelivant.

Wow. That quote speaks for itself.

Quote:
Obama inherited this mess which clearly started during the previous president's watch ( you know just like you guys harped about Clinton before Bush and the last recession ).

No one disputed that.

Quote:

Therefore it really does fall on the shouilders of Mr. Bush. There's no way to twist, spin, or mutilate the truth. He's at fault.

Question: How is he at fault, exactly? Or, is it just because he happened to be President?

Quote:
Now if after his time in office Obama doesn't fix it then he can be blamed more than the in coming president. But for now Bush is on the hot seat.

If you disagree then all of your comments about Clinton or any other previous Democratic president instantly become meaningless.

Wait..after his time in office? So he's responsible for nothing until he leaves office?
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post #21 of 419
11/8/09 at 7:31am
obama blames because he can't lead
he is supposed to have all this talent, we should have a plan in place that works, blame only makes him look weak
he also realizes that this blame thing is getting tired, some don't even remember who was the last president
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post #22 of 419
11/8/09 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Wow. That quote speaks for itself.



No one disputed that.



Question: How is he at fault, exactly? Or, is it just because he happened to be President?



Wait..after his time in office? So he's responsible for nothing until he leaves office?

Quote:
Wow. That quote speaks for itself.

Sorry but someone has to take responsibiltiy for the job of President. It might as well be the guy who was in office when the debacle happened. You liked this logic when it was Clinton.


Quote:
No one disputed that.

Tacitly yes they have. You liked this logic when it was Bush.

Quote:
Question: How is he at fault, exactly? Or, is it just because he happened to be President?

Already been over that. Sorry I don't do things twice anymore. Especially for you. And yes you used this tact when it was Clinton.


Quote:
Wait..after his time in office? So he's responsible for nothing until he leaves office?

[/QUOTE]

For the things he starts while he's in charge certainly he's responsible! If he does something that really turns out to be a debacle ( not speculation from the talking heads in the GOP but something that results in something bad certainly he can be responsible while he's in office ). Just like Bush was resposible for getting us into an unnecessary war on false pretenses.

And likewise Bush was responsible for the things that happened in the 8 years he was in office. So according to your logic that you used in the early part of this decade Bush is responsible for the recession itself because it happened on his watch ( just like when you guys were calling the earlier recession " Clinton's Recession " this is now " Bush's Recession " ).

It's painful when things ( especially your own logic ) comes back to bite you in the ass isn't it?
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post #23 of 419
11/8/09 at 9:11am
Obama is Bush's fault.
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post #24 of 419
11/8/09 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Obama is Bush's fault.

You could look at it that way. Just like Bush was Clinton's fault.
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post #25 of 419
11/8/09 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You could look at it that way. Just like Bush was Clinton's fault.

The first time, probably.
The second time, it's all on the voters.
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post #26 of 419
11/8/09 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry but someone has to take responsibiltiy for the job of President. It might as well be the guy who was in office when the debacle happened. You liked this logic when it was Clinton.

I was referring to your statement, which was incomprehensible

Quote:


Tacitly yes they have. You liked this logic when it was Bush.;

Tacitly? So "they" claimed it without claiming it? The claim itself is unsupportable, even if you could (or would) define who "they" are.

Quote:

Already been over that. Sorry I don't do things twice anymore. Especially for you. And yes you used this tact when it was Clinton.

This may be news to you jimmac, but the world does not hang on your every word, as if you're some kind of all-knowing political professor. The fact that you've "been over something" just means you at some point stated your opinion, which was likely not agreed upon then--and certainly not now.

Secondly, the only answer you've ever provided is "Deregulation." . You've never explained what "deregulation" was in your opinion (I still contend you don't know). Of course, assuming you did know (which you don't), it doesn't explain a damn thing. The "deregulation" you claim is 1. not really deregulation at all and 2. Started long before Bush. On the first point, it was specific NEW regulations on the mortgage/banking industry that helped cause the problem (forced sub-prime loans, liar's loans, low income area loans, etc). The second point is self-explanatory.


Quote:

For the things he starts while he's in charge certainly he's responsible! If he does something that really turns out to be a debacle ( not speculation from the talking heads in the GOP but something that results in something bad certainly he can be responsible while he's in office ). Just like Bush was resposible for getting us into an unnecessary war on false pretenses.

You mean like tripling the deficit through a "stimulus" bill and a trillion dollar government takeover of healthcare? Ignoring requests for more troops in Afghanistan...those things? Oh wait..that stuff isn't his fault, because most of them started before he was in office! He's not actually responsible for what he does in response...all his decisions are considered "good" because he didn't start it. Gotcha.

Quote:

And likewise Bush was responsible for the things that happened in the 8 years he was in office. So according to your logic that you used in the early part of this decade Bush is responsible for the recession itself because it happened on his watch ( just like when you guys were calling the earlier recession " Clinton's Recession " this is now " Bush's Recession " ).

It's painful when things ( especially your own logic ) comes back to bite you in the ass isn't it?

I've never claimed Clinton did anything specific to cause the recession in 2000. However, tax rates were higher, so in my opinion we were not as well insulated against economic slowdowns. Either way, it started on his watch, just as the most recent one started on Bush's. The difference is what the next Presidents did about the recessions. In 2001 and 2003, we had large tax cuts that clearly stimulated the economy. Obama has done nothing but spend shitloads of money that we don't have. And please recall, Bush was took action in mid 2008 to stem the recession he saw coming, through tax rebates. While not the best idea, it was better than spending 787 billion on pork, then calling it "stimulus."

The bottom line is that we have to look at specific policies and whether or not they make sense. We can't just look at outcomes. No one in his right mind believes that the pork--eh..stimulus will truly work. No one believes that annual deficit spending that approaches 6% of GDP is a good thing.
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post #27 of 419
11/8/09 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No one believes that annual deficit spending that approaches 6% of GDP is a good thing.

Your hero Reagan didn't, but,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan
Quote:
In order to cover newly spawned federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt from $700 billion to $3 trillion.[117] Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.[117]

Which caused Bush 1 to renege on "read my lips..."

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It still has to be cleaned up.
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post #28 of 419
11/8/09 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Heh -- do you really think things would be ANY different (other than less abortions) had McCain gotten in? Are you kidding me?

Is there any conceivable way to get more Wall Street alum shaping our bailout policies? Maybe MORE money given the banks?

And yes, I do believe that some (at least one or two) campaign promises should be kept.

Just quantify clever and we all can move on.
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post #29 of 419
11/8/09 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

some don't even remember who was the last president

Yeah, the Teabaggers, where were they when that fucktard Bush 43 was doubling the national debt anyway?
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post #30 of 419
11/8/09 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Yeah, the Teabaggers, where were they when that fucktard Bush 43 was doubling the national debt anyway?

Longing for the Reagan years.
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post #31 of 419
11/8/09 at 12:10pm
So how isn't it Bush's fault? or the President before him and before that?

You can't make change ONE YEAR into a Presidency.

You want to blame Obama, blame him 2-3 years AFTER he's out of office or 2-3 years into a SECOND term to judge the 1st 4 years.

Really. idiots.
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post #32 of 419
11/8/09 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Just quantify clever and we all can move on.

Ha! Just admit that it's starting to dawn on you, that our condition -- exemplified in spades by the financial crisis -- is WAY beyond political parties.

Confess!

(and if you can tell me what has meaningfully changed, I'll come up with a definition of clever)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #33 of 419
11/8/09 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Ha! Just admit that it's starting to dawn on you, that our condition -- exemplified in spades by the financial crisis -- is WAY beyond political parties.

Confess!

(and if you can tell me what has meaningfully changed, I'll come up with a definition of clever)

Yeah it "just" dawned on me, if by "just" you mean the 1980's.

A definition is made up from words, it is by default, at best, a qualitative description. I need a well defined clear cut dimensional metric (prefer SI units TYVM). Otherwise, your use of the word clever has no basis on which it can be judged objectively. In other words your use of the word clever is clearly, and squarely, subjective in nature. How does one go about weighing clever anyway?

Look at the history of the national debt, Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43, all Republicans, all signed spending bills, or tax reduction bills (Bush 41 did raised taxes a very tiny bit though), that produced the lion's share of our national debt to date.

A fiscal conservative is one who balances a budget, none of those three were fiscal conservatives, in any sense of the word.

Where were all those Teabaggers back then, I wonder, oh that's right, conservatives don't mind one bit when their own ilk run our fiscial ship aground.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #34 of 419
11/8/09 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Yeah it "just" dawned on me, if by "just" you mean the 1980's.

A definition is made up from words, it is by default, at best, a qualitative description. I need a well defined clear cut dimensional metric (prefer SI units TYVM). Otherwise, your use of the word clever has no basis on which it can be judged objectively. In other words your use of the word clever is clearly, and squarely, subjective in nature. How does one go about weighing clever anyway?

Look at the history of the national debt, Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43, all Republicans, all signed spending bills, or tax reduction bills (Bush 41 did raised taxes a very tiny bit though), that produced the lion's share of our national debt to date.

A fiscal conservative is one who balances a budget, none of those three were fiscal conservatives, in any sense of the word.

Where were all those Teabaggers back then, I wonder, oh that's right, conservatives don't mind one bit when their own ilk run our fiscial ship aground.

The teabaggers are a distraction -- the policies from one administration to another have simply gained momentum -- tax and spend vs. borrow and spend. Remember Bush 41, when we actually believed that the National Debt would or could be reduced?


?? No one believes that anymore -- we have to borrow more to simply exist.

We actually believed that it could happen -- that we could spend less -- and even into the coke-party years of Clinton. But the realities were catching up with us. The baby-boomer demographics have an ugly side, just as the Social Security, Medicare, and other unfunded mandates crept up on us in the interim. Even the "budget surpluses" of the Clinton years were simply an exercise in denial.

And as the Wall Street mindset that ran the Clinton finance side -- probably just an indication of the moral leprosy that has invaded American finance -- took hold, Bush 43 simply kicked the spending into higher gear, while laboring under the belief that we could grow ourselves out of any deficit.

But it was not to be.

Enter golden boy, BHO, with idiotic Oprah-level promises. purveyor of the most tired political pick-up line in existence: "change". With the biggest financial shit-storm in recent memory bearing down on us -- and his "natural" or "normal" response??? ....he runs instinctively for Goldman Sachs's sugar tit. Total regulatory/governmental capture. It couldn't possibly be more comical.

We're fucked -- and we are fucked big time.



I gave it five barfies -- you MUST read this.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...bble_machine/1

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #35 of 419
11/8/09 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

... the coke-party years of Clinton ...

We're fucked -- and we are fucked big time.

Does this even deserve a reply? Not really.

We're fucked? Then I say it's high time that Republicans regain majority status, like Bush had in 2001-3. Serves them right.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #36 of 419
11/8/09 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Does this even deserve a reply? Not really.

We're fucked? Then I say it's high time that Republicans regain majority status, like Bush had in 2001-3. Serves them right.

No, you don't understand. Nothing can save us from what it about to happen. The country is too detached from itself/we are too attached from ourselves and each other -- to make any difference.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #37 of 419
11/8/09 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

No, you don't understand. Nothing can save us from what it about to happen. The country is too detached from itself/we are too attached from ourselves and each other -- to make any difference.

My point exactly, Obama is a one term POTUS, the R's regain both houses and POTUS.

2012 - 1946 = 66 years (Boomers start to retire in droves)

Obama get's his health care reform bill this year, so that we now have to fund three rather large non-discretionary programs.

Unemployment reaches 30% in 2013 and stays there, or get's even worse, for the rest of the century.

Republicans pass massive tax cuts until the entire federal tax burdens are no more.

Republicams would still be funding our two current wars but with the draft reinstated and much higher annual costs.

Democrats see this super duper shitstorm coming, and disband their party entirely.

Republicans start pulling the plugs on everyone (Granny, Grandpa, Mom, Pop, brother, and sister), death squads, and mass graves.

It's kind of like a hot potato, just gotta make it land in the Republicals lap at just the right time.

2012 will be that time. Remember, you heard it here first.

It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #38 of 419
11/8/09 at 9:32pm
At least the US economy is stabilizing from the recession. It will start climbing over the next year. Obama has done well in ensuring that the system didn't burn to the ground. Here is a link to a search results from the last month so you can read up instead of bad mouthing any particular author.

Google Link

With regard to the points made about the US borrowing more (doing the wrong thing) to sustain a system (which was fucked up to start with), you can always migrate to Canada or find some way to get a government that isn't funded by lobbyists for corporations. It is the decline of the empire.
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #39 of 419
11/8/09 at 9:33pm
What a crock franksargent.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #40 of 419
11/9/09 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101 View Post

At least the US economy is stabilizing from the recession. It will start climbing over the next year. Obama has done well in ensuring that the system didn't burn to the ground.



At least you're believing what you're supposed to believe, so that's good.
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