Originally Posted by jimmac
I'm sorry but it's difficult to take you seriously after your last post.
The thing is SDW that we really have talked about some of the things Bush was doing wrong while he was doing them! Fighting an unnecessary war during a time of economic strife.
Your answer " War helps the economy ". Well it really helped didn't it? And why the hell were we there again? Which made up reason?
That wasn't my answer (though it often does help) and it's not the reason the war was started. The economy was much improved by the time the war started anyway. It didn't contribute to our current situation.
Meanwhile OSBL is taking a powder. And what was that I heard on that recent report that we could have caught him but we decided to not persue at just the right time?
But I guess you don't arrest friends of the family.
Even if that wasn't outrageous, it still wouldn't have anything to do with the issue at hand. How did Bush policies cause the financial situation we're in now?
My accountant used to laugh ( not just him but the entire firm ) about the Bush kickback checks. Sure let's send everyone $600.00 bucks! That'll do it! Then we'll spend money like water and cut back taxes so nothing's paid for!
I don't support the rebates either. They weren't a GOP idea, but they happened under Bush. Either way, that didn't cause the meltdown either.
True he sarted during a recession also. Nothing like this one of course. But he went through the surplus ( from the previous administration and yes I know you think it didn't exist even though everyone else does ) he had at the time in 6 months.
"The surplus" was not some bank account that we forgot about, jimmac. It was simply the actual and predicted difference in income v. spending. It was positive for a few years. Surpluses likely would have ended during 2001 anyway as the economy slowed. Also, note that the surplus was created by Republicans to begin with. Either way, it also had nothing to do with the economic meltdown.
And then there was his assault on our privacy ( wiretapping ). Yes I know you think it was just fine ( yeah that's why it was ruled unconstitutional and shut down for those of you worried about what Obama's doing in relation to the constitution ).
We disagree about that. I do think it was not only fine, but indispensable. By the way, how was your privacy violated?
About 911 where he spent critical minutes reading to children like a deer in the headlights instead of excusing himself, getting up, and doing his job! He didn't have to panic anyone! That's just stupid.
Oh stop. Now you just sound like sammi jo.
About immigration I think we already have a big wall somewhere.
About Katrina : Late to the party. His attitude about science and things like oh stem cell research. Totally stupid. Thank god we're making some progress now. That thing you call imaginary. What's it called? Oh yeah Global Warming! He set us back there to!
1. I didn't like his stance on immigration. You do realize he was a liberal on that issue, right?
2. Katrina: He could have handled it better, but it wasn't handled nearly as badly as many think. Many of the problems were not even at the federal level.
3. Bush was the first President to fund stem cell research. It wasn't
banned. We just wouldn't use federal funding to create new lines. Bush's reasoning was that this was creating life for the purpose of destroying it. I don't have strong feelings on this issue. I understand both arguments.
4. Global Warming is a fraud. Since the last time we talked about this, MORE data has been shown to be unreliable.
You've listed some things you don't like about Bush, but you've not shown which policies contributed to our fiscal and economic situation.
As a leader he sucked! And here we are right after his last term and guess what? Things are so fucked the current president can't even work on an agenda. He's going to be too busy fixing things broken during the last guy!
As for the current President: Yes, he inherited some major problems. However, even if we blame every one
of these problems on Bush, we cannot excuse Obama's conduct while in office. Obama has been an unmitigated nightmare. He's 5 times worse on spending. He's anti-business. He's not improved foreign relations. He's floundering in Afghanistan. He's broken his promises on transparency. None of this has anything to do with his predecessor.
There's nothing blind about this. When you take responsibility for a job you take the consequences. You don't try to shift the blame. It's your job! Not his/hers that might make another target for distraction!
I can't believe you just posted that. Tell me...when will OBAMA do so?
Then of course you'll say it's not his fault. After 8 years? And to that I'll quote another president " The buck stops here! ". After 8 years it should!
I've detailed which parts I think are Bush's fault. In terms of the economy, his administration's policies contributed to the "house of cards." In other words, they worked within the system. It turns out that major reform (or at least a huge correction) was needed. I think that's fair to put on him. Beyond that, I think you've failed to show what else he did to cause the meltdown.
Then of course you'll say " Well the president really isn't in charge of things " ( another deflection ). Then why are you guys so mad at Obama?
I like how you attack me for "deflecting" using something that I've not posted. Bush can be blamed in some ways as I've described (see the other thead...I went through it more in detail). As for Obama, he's instituted policies that I don't agree with and have been ineffective.
I really don't want to vote for a party that thinks it's leaders don't have to take the consequences for their actions or lack thereof.
So you voted...DEMOCRAT?!?
However that's one of the reasons republican reform will be happening. This kind of dodge the responsibility bullet isn't getting them elected in a national sense.
You're timing is impeccable:
Carville says "blame Bush."
Generic ballot for 2010 shows Republicans with solid lead
Direction of the country: 38-59 right track/wrong trackScott Brown election
seen as reflecting American's frustrations nationally by (72%).
Go on...tell me about national political problems for Republicans. Your party is in complete meltdown.
The thing about this economic crisis is if Bush was so good why the hell didn't he do something about it when it was happening?
He did. He signed off on TARP. He proposed an economic stimulus
and got it passed. One could say not enough was done. But I'd like to ask...what should
have been done?
And no SDW it didn't just happen in the last two years we had a democratic congress. The guy was in charge! For a long time! That brings us back to where we always end up.
Never said it did--or that Democrats were exclusively to blame. They had their hand in it though, particularly people like Barney Frank.
We also had multiple attempts
by Republicans to prevent the crisis.
Either he's just an evil fucker or totally inept! I vote both.
There really is no point in talking to someone so delusional, polarized, and bizzaro ( " Only I can judge Bush and only when I want and I'll set the criteria " ).
And this one :
is just off the rails!
The only thing I can think of is you're really upset with the republican party's current situation and can't deal with it.
In the end SDW ( no matter how you slice it ) he was in charge with all of those resources at his finger tips! it's still Bush's fault!
I am not upset with their situation at all. Have you read the polling? Did you see what just happened in the bluest of blue states? I'm not sure how someone can just totally ignore the political realities of today. It's as if you cannot accept that the political landscape has changed dramatically in the past 14 months.