Obama: It's Still Bush's Fault - Page 3

That's right. It's laughable the repubs would attack Obama for this. If you one holds Obama responsible for the job losses as of February 2009, which really wouldn't be appropriate, regardless of that, in the 13 months before then, job losses had been rising nearly every single month culminating with a high of 741,000 in January 2009. Since then job losses have fallen nearly every single month to the point where in the next 1 to 4 months an actual decrease is looking highly likely.

Here's the data- http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/Surv..._view=net_1mth

I have no idea to what you are referring. You keep ascribing some sort of magical powers to me. Why would my posts be any different than yours?


Sorry we are not all part of this happening. I've honored every cent I've ever borrowed from every person I've borrowed it from. My family lives conservatively under our means on one income while pocketing the second when available. You simply desire to share the blame so you can invalidate anyone from offering up a cure that demands changes in those causing the problem. If everyone is wrong, then no one can be right.

Sorry, but you are wrong, wrong and finally wrong. The boomers have taken America from the world's biggest creditor to the world's biggest debtor nation. Painting a Republican who isn't conservative enough on spending as the problem only allowed in the true big spenders, aka the Democrats who continue month after month to have the word RECORD attached to all they do. In short, you want to say that because no one yelled loud enough about the little lies, that now no one has the moral authority to call out the big lies. Waking up from the delusion in no form makes it impossible to call them out.

I have the authority. I'll claim it and no matter what accusations you want to toss out as ad-homs to try to invalidate the poster rather than the argument, the point stands true, you cannot borrow your way to prosperity. You cannot have a blind spot that has you outlawing light bulbs while importing all your energy and products with 10+% unemployment. The delusion is driven by utopianism and it must be stopped.

Liberal parties around the world are being voted out in Canada, in Europe and soon here as well. It is because this utopian blind spot has unemployed people who can't fill their bellies because we would rather use the food for fuel instead of using nuclear, or pumping energy out of the ground. It has people being legislated against for their "carbon footprint" when they are being tossed out of their home. It is completely ass-backwards in terms of reasoning but what can you expect from people who believe the solution to overconsumption and debt is to print up a bunch of money and start over again. It is the same reasoning that says the cure to a hangover is to start drinking again.

Around the first of the year I remember people around here saying you asked for your posts to be deleted ( I haven't checked into this myself ).

We all had our part to play if it was only helping to vote in people who couldn't govern effectively.


This is over simplifying the problem. Everyone took part. That doesn't make them right or wrong. They simply were part of the system.


That is a delusion on your part. I'd be willing to bet if we were to examine your life style we'd find something. As no one is perfect.

Not even you.


And how much did the deficit go up during the Bush years?


This is wishful, partisan thinking on your part. But I'm sure you don't want to look at that very closely.

No one is perfect trumptman.

So have I. Just as long as a matter of fact if not longer ( AI records don't go back before the black out in 2000 I believe it was but been here since 1999).

Well I just did a search and he has one post from 2007 and one from 2006! He has a few from 2008 ( and I know he posted more than that ) so I guess the people I'm quoting are right. Imagine that!


As he sees it. Not the same thing as uninterpreted for us fact.

SDW quite simply you've been wrong so much on so many issues I wouldn't be the one to cast stones if I were you.

I really have no time for people who won't look at all the sides to the issues we face now days.

Yes! With you! After a while of talking with you a person realizes you aren't dealing in reality. It's a version laced with your own bias. You literally will say anything to maintain this fiction.

So you are making accusations based off unverified hearsay?

Do you not see the irony when you are making statements like this....


You personify that which you claim of others. Every post I have ever made to this board is still here. The claim (not checked into by yourself of course) was that boards would be SPAMMED through the entire election season by me and even if not by me, by my posts, etc. I made them all go away for a while just to prove that point wrong.

Just like your point is wrong. However you literally will say anything to maintain your fiction, won't you.


The search function has been broken on these forums for a long time. It also doesn't help that many of the forums have changed names while keeping older threads within them. Add to that the whole AppleOutsider/Fireside Chat/AppleOutsider/PoliticalOutsider within AppleOutsider bit and good luck finding anything.

However I did a search based off my join date via Google and found this for you which is likely within my first handful of posts on his forum.

So as usual, imagine yourself completely wrong.


Sorry but you've proven yourself completely wrong and on top of it, prone to making baseless accusations related to your own limits of understanding.


So go away or put him on ignore or do something other than repeating yourself while accusing others.


This is hilarious. They were part of the system how again? I have prime mortgages, yet somehow I'm responsible for subprime as well. I guess I'm part of the system because I use banks. Perhaps it is because I still use dollars instead of chicken eggs.


Speak for yourself if you can. You can't speak for me and if you examined my lifestyle you'd probably resent it as you already resent so many other people around here. Stop projecting your own limitations onto others as accusations.


As I've noted in the boomer thread, when you have a narcissist, destructive generation like the boomers, the only choice you can make is who will do the least damage. I suspect that will be our choce in 2012 as well. We see no one ending Pax Americana. We see no one suggesting an end to entitlements. The boomers have been bankrupting themselves and the country their entire lifetimes and will continue to do so. Conservative among the boomers isn't conservative enough to save us.


Election results aren't wishful thinking. You can look up the results yourself but given your limited ability to make use of search functions, I can understand why you would rather engage in personal attacks rather than reveal your limitations.

[/QUOTE]
trumptman the only one here who can type long papragraphs of nothing. But there's always time for an insult.



You get a younger generation who whines " It's all their fault! Us? Well we're innocent victims! "



So there is a problem.

You must understand trumpy I have a real life with a real job and a real family. This place occupies a very small portion of my time. Perhaps when I get some time off however I know chasing after SDW can be a giant waste of my time. If I did find proof ( as someone already did about the previous election question ) he would never admit anything. So after a colossal waste of my time I'd really gain very little.

Not the only one....


And why does this surprise you given how they are raised? Parents are afraid to hold their dear fragile children accountable for any of their actions and shield them from any mistakes. They grow up believing that they can do no wrong, and if they do someone else will take care of it.


And you are the only one... Right? Why does it have to be about winning anyhow? Can't people just discuss something, put your point out there, have a conversation and then let it go at that? Many interesting conversations or topics have been utterly destroyed by this inane need to "win".

Of course you didn't. You only see what you want to see. And about the second part how old are you and what part of the partisan fence are you on?

You are so much in denial and everything you see is clouded by you own beliefs you've lost the ability to see in an unbiased manner ( if you ever really had it in the first place ).

I'm really starting not to care about what you have to say.


You and trumpy are old buddies from the " New Dead Majority " I suppose but you really know about his life do you? He seems to post at all hours. How does he do that and work to?

So it's all their parent's fault. Gotcha.

Any psychologist would have a field day with this. Oops! I forgot he might be a boomer!

Jesus!

Yeah, much personal responsibility falls to the parents as well.

Who responsibility is it to raise the kids? Oh wait, that was the responsibility of the schools, the parents were busy working and paying the bills. And it cannot possibly have anything to do with the kids either.

Damn schools, they got it all wrong!

Kind of weird I know but usually it is best to address questions to the person to whom they are about if you want an accurate answer. SDW is right Jimmac. You just repeat the same points over and over. There are no links, no attempts to inform via sources, quotes, whatever. Strangely those of your ilk lately seem so overwhelmed by such things that they've begun actively sneering at them. Sort of ironic as the claim was that Obama wouldn't be all "anti-science" like it was claimed Bush was yet the people in his administration can't pay taxes, can't understand the laws they keep violating, and finally keep just making up stuff like the number of jobs created or save in various phantom congressional districts. (If you have no idea what this refers to then ask) The administration sneers at Americans, calls cops doing their job acting stupidly but won't condemn nor even take a side on a domestic terrorist shooting a dozen of his fellow servicemen.

I work a full time job. I just finished coaching my son's soccer team. I have done two musicals this year and often start my mornings with 3-5 miles and my weekends have at least a bike ride of 25-50 miles. I did a 5k a couple weeks a go and have a little mini triathlon coming up next month. Finally I'm hoping to make the Tour De Palm Springs my first century. I'm hoping these are the baby steps to some even bigger events but we will see. If you think I'm busy here, try my real life!

Well you see from my point of view he's the one that keeps repeating. I once posted a long review ( pages and pages ) about the Iraq war and the nonexistence of WMD from this website
http://www.historycommons.org/projec...t=iraq_project

It used to be called " The center for cooperative research ".

He totally ignored it. This website uses facts that are well documented and with references so it's not partisan hearsay. SDW ignored this because he didn't like what it had to say. I believe ( although it's been a few years now ) he called it " an antiwar site ".

Now if you don't believe me do a search yourself of my posts. They're all there.

I have a busy life also between my two daughters ( one who is in college in a nearby city and sings opera and is active in theater so I try to see as many of her performances as possible ).

My other daughter was hit by a car a few years ago and requires a lot of shuttling around. I also work at a full time job on staff at a local university. It's been fall semester which is one of our busier times.

For the record I don't think Obama is perfect. I sometimes think I would have rather had Hillary as Obama is more of a dreamer and what we need right now more than anything is someone competent at running the show and getting us out of this hole we've dug for ourselves. But as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on what he can accomplish. No matter how you slice it these would be tough times for any person in the job.

I'll take you on your word with regard to that however even then, that is like FIVE YEARS AGO! How long has it been since we invaded Iraq and afterwards discovered no WMD's and thus argued back and forth about it? What does that have to do with not supporting your positions and contentions now Jimmac? Write for more than an audience of one. Even if you believe SDW wouldn't read a word of it or would dismiss the links (not that I think he would) then imagine the 300 lurkers who will encounter that information as well.

This is what used to drive Groverat and a few others who have fled nuts. They wanted me to argue until I convinced them against their will. I've always said once my case is out there, I'll let it stand on its own merits and I move on. It is the same view I take with teaching. You exert as much effort and energy as you can on a child or topic, and then you move on. Perhaps you moved them X amount, perhaps you just cracked the wall that some other adult will now break through, but you did what you could.

The only things I've ever asked of you is to use the quote function appropriately (the whole double quote bit is annoying to me) and to add something to the posts besides declarations and repetition.

Best wishes on the continued recovery of your one daughter and tell the other to break a leg with regard to her performances. I love opera singers. Many of the are rather plain looking and then that voice comes out. Gets me every time.

I really wish both you and Frank would give that Boomer thread another run. It tries to tackle this outside the lines of party. As I noted back when, Bush is just Democrat-lite and Obama is the full scale version. We are in trouble for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with party. We don't make things anymore, we just manipulate them. The reasoning within both parties is arguments about who gets to manipulate them, wall street banks or government but there isn't going to be anything to manipulate soon. Right now there is a dollar carry trade going on and the results of when it must end are going to be very bad. We must stop the utopianism and get back to making and creating things of value. Canada has universal health care AND they will dig whatever wealth they can find out of the ground and sell it, be it oil or other materials. We won't and that is part of what empowers folks like Sarah Palin since she has some good points about energy production. France has universal health care and gets 70% of its power from nuclear power plants. We haven't built a nuclear power plant in over 13 years.

We import away our problems with regard to over-regulation and unwillingness to make environmental trade offs. California is flat broke with oil reserves off its coast. We won't let our farmers grow food thanks to a fish. We have farm land sitting fallow. We can't build a solar panel array in the Mojave Desert due to a tortoise. We shut down a 400 megawatt nuclear power plant and replaced it with a 4 megawatt solar installation. Meanwhile Texas is doing very well fiscally but you can actually build stuff there and generate power there.

We need to get to solutions and soon. No one is going to have a job or health care if the only way to make something happen is to print up money, borrow it from the Chinese and just hand it out to "do something" in a make work fashion.

Uh that was just one example! I do think after that I realized no amount of evidence presented to him would matter. I have added links since then of course but not so much lately. Others have come to this conclusion as well. As a matter of fact others have come to that conclusion with this forum in general. That's why you don't see the addaboxs and midwinters here much anymore. It's not that the conservatives won. They got tired of arguing with people who don't make sense and will say anything. They've got better things to do with their time.

However this :
was a nice change of pace from our usual exchange. Yes the oldest is quite talented and had the opportunity to sing ( with some other hand picked students from all over Oregon ) on stage at the Arlene Schnitzer concert hall up in Portland a couple of years ago ( NoahJ living in Oregon probably knows how prestigious that is ). I'm so proud to be associated with her. I really feel she will go places and do great things ( yes I know I'm biased but she really is something special when you hear her voice ). The other daughter is doing better after many surgeries for vestibular problems but her life will never be the same. I never thought about it before how getting hit by a car can really screw your life up for good (assuming you survive ).


Yes that really is sad. Because of outsourcing and just general greed we've become a nation of consumers. We're the world's biggest customer. However if you don't make the money yourself you can't consume forever. This nation cannot exist as just a giant clearing house. And yes the Chinese are the rising star now. My wife and daughters went to Beijing last year ( the oldest was in a string ensemble that got to perform for the Olympics ). I got to stay home and take care of the dogs ( of course ). However they said the pollution was terrible ( even though the government made an effort to clean this up for the outside world ). They said it was clearly a society in transition. A mixture of 14, 18, 19, and 21rst century. My wife's favorite story is when their group went to what was advertised as an upscale restaurant the hostess said " Ah Americans! I want you to feel at home. In the restroom we have a western toilet! ". When you actually go in there's one toilet ( no toilet paper ) and a bench with a number of holes ( outhouse style ). No stalls or dividers. And when she was in their doing her business a man came in and sat down beside her to do the same. Gotta love that!

Because of their lack of restrictions on environmental issues they've taken the fast track to being a modern industrial power ( never mind the odd village that gets poisoned mysteriously ).

However with the global meltdown even the Chinese are having problems. Remember they can't make money if they can't sell us stuff. Kind of ironic.

You'd laugh if you knew my wife ( she's a republican! ). We are getting better about talking politics ( understanding each other's viewpoint ) however I'm still a " Bleeding heart liberal " at times. As you might imagine Healthcare is a big topic in our household.


I don't find that viewpoint unreasonable. Any " Plan " needs to be much more focused and well thought out.

Just to be clear I do think you're a reasonable person and I'd rather people are passionate about their beliefs than just going with the flow. I do think we can agree on one thing and that is this old world is sure screwed up lately.

I've got to hand it to you! You're really picking up that talent for posting paragraphs that say basically nothing.

You would know!

Yes I know one when I see one. After reading them here at PO I'm all too familiar.

You've authored quite a bit of them, yourself.

I think this attitude is quite hypocritical. Most of your posts have simply boiled down to:
Neener-Neener-Neeeeener!

If you have something to add. Add it and don't resort to "same to you" while pretending to try bring the level of discussion up. \

Noah,

What the hell did you just do?

What the hell is this from jazzy? :


However you chose to quote only me. Talk about hypocracy!

This kind of partisan bullshit from the conservatives here ( the " neener, neener, neener " ) is why most of the old timers don't come here anymore. It effectively turns this forum into a garbage can. As I've said people have better things to do with their time than come and post in this sandbox.

Time to que your reply : " Then why do you do it nya, nya, nya? "

Wasting my breath apparently. Have fun.

Yes you are wasting your breath when you only see ( acknowledge ) one side.

Look I'm sorry that the republicans finally paid the price for their champion who couldn't even run an ant farm competently.

I'm sorry that they'll only pick up a few seats in 2010 ( because historically that's what happens ) and not the big resurgence they're hoping for. They'll have to wait a while longer for that.

I'm sorry that they still have elements that haven't a clue as to why they lost and can't seem to regain the voter's confidence ( even when the opposition's has declined ). But when you try to pretend things like science and common sense don't exist no one will buy it. I've been saying this here for years and now it's come to pass and they still shoot their ad-homs, correct my spelling, and talk about Obama's birth certificate!

Anything but solutions to the issues.

I'm sorry that the best they can do is try to fein phony superiority with nothing to base it on.

Well when you're the underdog and are bitter...........

But hey! As I've previously stated I've been saying this for years. The republicans are finally paying the price for having a monkey in the Whitehouse ( and trying to elect other zoo specimens to replace him ).

So I'm totally confident that if the economy recovers in the next year or so they'll claim it would have happened anyway or worse try to claim responsibilty for it!

I mean that's been their MO up to now. Why should it change?

Oh yeah! They want back into the limelight. Well that's up to them. Not the Democrats, the independents, or Obama.

Depending on getting the vote by being the " The one's that will cause the least amount of damage " won't float either. Not when they're the one's who were in power when this all started. The american voter has a short memory but not that short. Also they get all the Glenn Becks and Sarah Palins in the world to remind them.

Once they figure these things out they might stand a chance.

Until then however I suspect we'll be getting the same garbage over and over again which is dragging this on even longer than I originally thought.

Thank you for the verification.

Consensus is building that we're likely to get slammed with another recession in 2011 thanks to the spectacularly stupid monetary policy that passes for wisdom these days and the effects of the economic stimulus wearing off. It's going to be another wave of 'big ouchies'.

I hope not, but the more that goes on, the more likely it seems. You cannot borrow your way out of recession and debt, and you can't tax your way out either. What else have they offered so far?

Anyone have timetable on when our about-face with Russia will have any tangible results?

Was there supposed to be results?

That you can still waste your breath by doing the very thing you were complaining about.

In the end it's not really all Bush's fault. Some blame has to lie with the people responsible for electing him twice.

What?


As with all these dumb smokescreens small but loud.




As NoahJ would say : " Thanks for the verification ".



Can you supply a link that really shows this?


And yet who's in the Whitehouse? One of the reasons is those same GOP members didn't either support or voted against their own party last time.

Why? Because of the zoo specimens I was talking about. The notion that anyone would let that pair into power is frightening! Hell I'd rather have Nixon! Come to think of it I'd rather have " Dick " than any of their recent choices. At least he was intelligent.


This was almost an ad-hom SDW and even though I usually don't report other members I might make an exception for you. As you saw when you tried this before it didn't take me long to find errors in your writing.

By the way that's Climate Gate not climategate.

Spelling has nothing to do with the content of what one is trying to say. God! What bull shit.

You know I really don't care how you spell things SDW it's what you're saying that counts.

But as usual you'd rather we pay attention to little things out in front and not pay any attention to what's really going on behind the cutain.
You know? The facts.



If you're talking about Rush, Beck, or Palin I've heard enough! I'd rather listen to Moe, Larry, and Curly-Joe!

Oh, good grief, no. The GOP needs to suffer the crushing death blow of a full 8 years of Obama for them to begin to understand what it would mean to get back following the Constitution, bring back the troops from overseas, stop the insane drug war and reduce the size and reach of government. They won't get it until they have been decimated and the neo-cons and corporatist oligarchy calling the shots right now is played off.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Sorry but you were shoveling crap like this before the last election.


Well I guess you won't get it until they lose again. However that'll just make their reform take that much longer. You probably wouldn't like a republican party that operated like they were designed to anyway.